ESB Spoilt Brats...

HellFireClub

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/esbs-euro75500-staff-spoilt-admits-union-chief-2859455.html

THE most senior union official at state-owned ESB has been caught on camera admitting the workers he represents are "spoilt".
Brendan Ogle, secretary of the group of unions representing more than 7,000 workers at the energy provider, said the staff had got used to "gravy" being poured from above.
Workers at ESB enjoy average salaries of €75,500 a year, which are worth €94,300 when generous pension contributions are included.
Details of Mr Ogle's comments came as ESB announced yesterday it is hiking its prices by 12pc from October, adding about €120 a year to its 1.2 million customers' bills.
The company blamed the hike on a 40pc rise in international wholesale gas prices over the last year.
Addressing the militant republican organisation Eirigi, Mr Ogle said governments had doled out perks, including overtime, to avoid strikes "once they got the trade unions in their back pocket".
Mr Ogle's admission of the semi-state workers' "privileged" position has come to light as householders are once again being stung by rising electricity prices.
In his address, Mr Ogle described himself and his semi-state members as "privileged and very lucky" but said that there was "nothing wrong with that", although he often told them they were "spoilt".
"You wouldn't know it listening to them some of the time but they are very privileged and lucky," he said.
He mentioned an "after-hours work scheme" and overtime examples of the lavish "gravy" that ESB workers had grown accustomed to during the boom.
He said people who worked in good jobs were suddenly in great jobs, had their mortgages paid off, bought apartments in Bulgaria, had two or three cars, and were sending their children to private schools.
Personal
Officials at his UNITE union said they were not aware of the content of the speech, but insisted Mr Ogle was not speaking in his capacity as a union official.
They stressed the speech was made in a personal capacity at the Eirigi meeting, which was called to oppose EU and IMF cutbacks.
Mr Ogle told the audience there was a real opportunity for ESB workers to say "enough is enough" because of their power to turn out the lights should the Government try to break up the company.
"But I've got a problem with the people that I represent who have power, because they also have money," he continued.
"They're also -- and they won't mind me saying this because I say it to them often enough -- they're also spoilt."
He singled out the Fianna Fail-led government of recent years for doling out perks.
"The thing that the right-wing FF and PD government needed, once they got the trade unions in their back pocket, the thing they needed the most was industrial peace.
"And the way they got that (was) to throw a bit of gravy around the place."
But he was also highly critical of the Labour Party, which he said was "so right-wing, they think the most right-wing Labour trade union movement in Europe is too left-wing for them".
He remembered telling a group of ESB workers at a meeting in Letterkenny three years ago that the country was about to go bust, but they looked at him in disbelief.
Mr Ogle was also heavily critical of the trade union movement, which he described as "more right-wing than the unions in the US".
He ridiculed ICTU for organising a march against government cutbacks before Christmas when nobody was sitting in the Dail.
He also said economist Colm McCarthy "made a b****x" of his recent report on the sale of state assets and claimed he "can't add".
UNITE said Mr Ogle was on annual leave and was not available for comment yesterday.
"Officials representing members at ESB were not aware of the speech," a spokesman said.
He emphasised that the speech was delivered before Energy Minister Pat Rabbitte pulled the plug on plans to break up the ESB.
- Anne-Marie Walsh Industry Correspondent
Irish Independent


When are we ever going to stand up to this sheer PS/Semi State GREED??????

These spoilt clowns in the ESB, yet to take a pay cut 3 years into the worst recession in history, sitting in the last of the handy numbers, 75K a year average salaries, will someone please do us all a favour and go into places like the ESB, Irish Rail, Bord Na Mona and the rest of these deluded workplaces and tell the people working there how life is unfolding in the real outside of their little protected bubble and tell them that there will be no increases in the prices of the services they offer until they get back onto the same planet as the rest of us.

The money that these people are on is disgusting, it's repugnant, how in the name of Christ can this kind of nonsense be tolerated at the current time???

Jelle1880

Where do I apply ?

HellFireClub

Jelle1880 wrote: »

Where do I apply ?

I'd rather sit at home with no heat and light and work it out for myself than continue with this pure and utter nonsense. It's gone so far beyond a joke with these people, it's disgusting...

Bad and all as the PS are, at least a pay cut has been forced upon them, not the case with these semi state wasters.

doc_17

Do ESB workers pay the pension levy?

terradactyl84

But as taxpayers, we all own ESB. So in effect, this is our fault

hidinginthebush

HellFireClub wrote: »

Jelle1880 wrote: »

Where do I apply ?

I'd rather sit at home with no heat and light and work it out for myself than continue with this pure and utter nonsense. It's gone so far beyond a joke with these people, it's disgusting...

Bad and all as the PS are, at least a pay cut has been forced upon them, not the case with these semi state wasters.

I'd rather get paid an average of €75,500!

irishh_bob

HellFireClub wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/esbs-euro75500-staff-spoilt-admits-union-chief-2859455.html

THE most senior union official at state-owned ESB has been caught on camera admitting the workers he represents are "spoilt".
Brendan Ogle, secretary of the group of unions representing more than 7,000 workers at the energy provider, said the staff had got used to "gravy" being poured from above.
Workers at ESB enjoy average salaries of €75,500 a year, which are worth €94,300 when generous pension contributions are included.
Details of Mr Ogle's comments came as ESB announced yesterday it is hiking its prices by 12pc from October, adding about €120 a year to its 1.2 million customers' bills.
The company blamed the hike on a 40pc rise in international wholesale gas prices over the last year.
Addressing the militant republican organisation Eirigi, Mr Ogle said governments had doled out perks, including overtime, to avoid strikes "once they got the trade unions in their back pocket".
Mr Ogle's admission of the semi-state workers' "privileged" position has come to light as householders are once again being stung by rising electricity prices.
In his address, Mr Ogle described himself and his semi-state members as "privileged and very lucky" but said that there was "nothing wrong with that", although he often told them they were "spoilt".
"You wouldn't know it listening to them some of the time but they are very privileged and lucky," he said.
He mentioned an "after-hours work scheme" and overtime examples of the lavish "gravy" that ESB workers had grown accustomed to during the boom.
He said people who worked in good jobs were suddenly in great jobs, had their mortgages paid off, bought apartments in Bulgaria, had two or three cars, and were sending their children to private schools.
Personal
Officials at his UNITE union said they were not aware of the content of the speech, but insisted Mr Ogle was not speaking in his capacity as a union official.
They stressed the speech was made in a personal capacity at the Eirigi meeting, which was called to oppose EU and IMF cutbacks.
Mr Ogle told the audience there was a real opportunity for ESB workers to say "enough is enough" because of their power to turn out the lights should the Government try to break up the company.
"But I've got a problem with the people that I represent who have power, because they also have money," he continued.
"They're also -- and they won't mind me saying this because I say it to them often enough -- they're also spoilt."
He singled out the Fianna Fail-led government of recent years for doling out perks.
"The thing that the right-wing FF and PD government needed, once they got the trade unions in their back pocket, the thing they needed the most was industrial peace.
"And the way they got that (was) to throw a bit of gravy around the place."
But he was also highly critical of the Labour Party, which he said was "so right-wing, they think the most right-wing Labour trade union movement in Europe is too left-wing for them".
He remembered telling a group of ESB workers at a meeting in Letterkenny three years ago that the country was about to go bust, but they looked at him in disbelief.
Mr Ogle was also heavily critical of the trade union movement, which he described as "more right-wing than the unions in the US".
He ridiculed ICTU for organising a march against government cutbacks before Christmas when nobody was sitting in the Dail.
He also said economist Colm McCarthy "made a b****x" of his recent report on the sale of state assets and claimed he "can't add".
UNITE said Mr Ogle was on annual leave and was not available for comment yesterday.
"Officials representing members at ESB were not aware of the speech," a spokesman said.
He emphasised that the speech was delivered before Energy Minister Pat Rabbitte pulled the plug on plans to break up the ESB.
- Anne-Marie Walsh Industry Correspondent
Irish Independent


When are we ever going to stand up to this sheer PS/Semi State GREED??????

These spoilt clowns in the ESB, yet to take a pay cut 3 years into the worst recession in history, sitting in the last of the handy numbers, 75K a year average salaries, will someone please do us all a favour and go into places like the ESB, Irish Rail, Bord Na Mona and the rest of these deluded workplaces and tell the people working there how life is unfolding in the real outside of their little protected bubble and tell them that there will be no increases in the prices of the services they offer until they get back onto the same planet as the rest of us.

The money that these people are on is disgusting, it's repugnant, how in the name of Christ can this kind of nonsense be tolerated at the current time???

brendan ogle is the biggest fcuking charlatan in this country , the self proclaimed socilist ( who insists on a 70 k per year salary for his workers ) has brazenly ( on several occasions ) threatened to turn off the lights if wages for his ESB workers are touched , the guy has now been exposed as not being able to swallow his own story , delighted that the obnoxious and petulant trouble maker has been outed for the hypocrite that he is

Gumbo

Pity they dont talk about the normal workers in there earning mid 20k and on pay freezes, not rises for the last 3 years.

markpb

kceire wrote: »

Pity they dont talk about the normal workers in there earning mid 20k and on pay freezes, not rises for the last 3 years.

It's hardly a terrible situation though, not many people in the country have gotten pay rises in the last three years and, in the words of the awful cliché, at least they still have jobs. The threat of forced redundancy is fairly low for them.

Gumbo

markpb wrote: »

It's hardly a terrible situation though, not many people in the country have gotten pay rises in the last three years and, in the words of the awful cliché, at least they still have jobs. The threat of forced redundancy is fairly low for them.

agh i know, completely agree, i would of loving a pay freeze in from my 2009 salary too

But as usual the article is used to "mouth off", and as such will be trashed out on here that all ESB workers earn 60k etc etc etc

Stripey Cat

The company blamed the hike on a 40pc rise in international wholesale gas prices over the last year.

In Kazakhstan, the government made a deal with the energy companies that ensures cheap natural gas for the people.

In Ireland, we gave all our natural resources to Shell.

Hootanany

Stripey Cat wrote: »

In Kazakhstan, the government made a deal with the energy companies that ensures cheap natural gas for the people.

In Ireland, we gave all our natural resources to Shell.

Thats a scary pic:eek:

terradactyl84

Stripey Cat wrote: »

In Kazakhstan, the government made a deal with the energy companies that ensures cheap natural gas for the people.

In Ireland, we gave all our natural resources to Shell.

Yes, it's always as simple as that. :rolleyes:

jazzy cian

I wouldn't mind 75k a year, I can drink tea!

Thank goodness for the Indo newspaper that works tirelessly to expose the crap that goes on with FAS/PS/Semi-states/Church day after day.

Keep up the good work!

Godge

doc_17 wrote: »

Do ESB workers pay the pension levy?

Short answer is no, they don't pay the pension levy and they haven't had a pay cut unlike civil servants and other public servants like teachers gardai and nurses.

Other than pensioners, workers in ESB, Bord Na Mona, Bord Gais, Irish Aviation Authority etc. are the ones who have done best to escape the situation this country is in.

therecklessone

Godge wrote: »

Short answer is no

However, unlike unfunded PS pension schemes the ESB scheme is funded and running at a significant deficit. To address that employees accepted a change to their pension conditions:

1. Pension based on career average earnings from 2012 onwards
2. A break in the link between pension increases and pay rises for serving staff

The latter of which can deliver significant savings (I am aware of one other semi-state that examined a similar proposal and calculated the equivalent value to be in excess of 10% of payroll costs)

In addition the deal included a 3 year pay freeze.

They are not insignificant changes to the remuneration package enjoyed by ESB workers.

Pete_Cavan

Stripey Cat wrote: »

In Kazakhstan, the government made a deal with the energy companies that ensures cheap natural gas for the people.

In Ireland, we gave all our natural resources to Shell.

In Ireland, the government made a deal with the energy companies that ensures cheap natural gas for the people - by signing a deal with a rpivate company to extract resources for which the state receives royalties instead of setting up another semi-state with a board full of people who know nothing about the industry and are only political appointments, which would be over-staffed with grossly over-paid, unsackable regardless of preformance, unionised workers.

We are already one of the most expensive countries in EU for electricity and ESB want to increase the price to consumers instead of reducing costs, and there is a lot of fat to be cut. Yet people are up in arms over the suggestion to sell off ESB. Just sell of energy production assets (most of our power stations will be obsolete in the next few years anyway and the government cant afford to replace them), retain the national grid, charge private companies for use of the grid and watch energy prices drop over night.

Gumbo

therecklessone wrote: »

However, unlike unfunded PS pension schemes the ESB scheme is funded and running at a significant deficit. To address that employees accepted a change to their pension conditions:

1. Pension based on career average earnings from 2012 onwards
2. A break in the link between pension increases and pay rises for serving staff

The latter of which can deliver significant savings (I am aware of one other semi-state that examined a similar proposal and calculated the equivalent value to be in excess of 10% of payroll costs)

In addition the deal included a 3 year pay freeze.

They are not insignificant changes to the remuneration package enjoyed by ESB workers.

Doesnt ESB operate from a DC scheme?
I know entrants to ESB for the past number of years are on a DC scheme not funded by the tax payer so no need for a pension levy.

therecklessone

kceire wrote: »

Doesnt ESB operate from a DC scheme?
I know entrants to ESB for the past number of years are on a DC scheme not funded by the tax payer so no need for a pension levy.

DB with a staff contribution AFAIK. Certainly long-serving members are on a DB scheme.

It had a deficit of approaching €2bn until the deal was struck and implemented at the ail end of last year.

Godge

therecklessone wrote: »

However, unlike unfunded PS pension schemes the ESB scheme is funded and running at a significant deficit. To address that employees accepted a change to their pension conditions:

1. Pension based on career average earnings from 2012 onwards
2. A break in the link between pension increases and pay rises for serving staff

The latter of which can deliver significant savings (I am aware of one other semi-state that examined a similar proposal and calculated the equivalent value to be in excess of 10% of payroll costs)

In addition the deal included a 3 year pay freeze.

They are not insignificant changes to the remuneration package enjoyed by ESB workers.

Civil servants have had a pay cut (7 - 10%) and agreed a five year pay freeze since 2008.

The guarantee for any future pay rises to be linked with pensions is also gone.

Semi-state workers have been the most protected in the country.

tsoparno

Jelle1880 wrote: »

Where do I apply ?

unless you have father/mother/brother/sister/uncle/aunt or cousin working in there forget about it.:p

amacachi

Godge wrote: »

Civil servants have had a pay cut (7 - 10%) and agreed a five year pay freeze since 2008.

The guarantee for any future pay rises to be linked with pensions is also gone.

Semi-state workers have been the most protected in the country.

No increments?

Godge

amacachi wrote: »

No increments?

I am not trying to defend increments, I am only comparing ESB and civil servants. Both get increments so I was ignoring that.

I am not a civil servant by the way so no need for snide remarks.

Point is semi-states have had it easiest. Maybe address that argument rather than attempting to drag the thread down into a public sector/private sector row again.

amacachi

Godge wrote: »

I am not trying to defend increments, I am only comparing ESB and civil servants. Both get increments so I was ignoring that.

I am not a civil servant by the way so no need for snide remarks.

Point is semi-states have had it easiest. Maybe address that argument rather than attempting to drag the thread down into a public sector/private sector row again.

Wasn't trying to be snide, just making that point. Excluding OT and cases where people have reached the top of a payscale most CS workers have a higher income now than in 2007.

therecklessone

Godge wrote: »

I am not trying to defend increments, I am only comparing ESB and civil servants. Both get increments so I was ignoring that.

I am not a civil servant by the way so no need for snide remarks.

Point is semi-states have had it easiest. Maybe address that argument rather than attempting to drag the thread down into a public sector/private sector row again.

Public service pensions are unfunded pay-as-go schemes.

Semi-state pension schemes are funded and run according to the rules laid down by the Pensions Board.

In addition the latter are liable for the pension fund levy while the former are exempt.

They are two significant differences.

If you're only interested in comparisons then you should really compare all of the relevant elements. While you don't want a public/private sector row you seem happy to engage in a public/semi-state row, that seems odd.

And I do not work for the ESB.

donkey balls

Typical sindo rubbish ****e reporting this average wage thing of 75k is b@ll@x i said before in another thread that there is different pay grades within the company,But typical sindo reporting just print the so-called average wage if there so f@@king good at reporting why don't they publish the wages for each employee grade with the numbers working in each dept rather than tar every employee with the 75k.

Godge

amacachi wrote: »

Wasn't trying to be snide, just making that point. Excluding OT and cases where people have reached the top of a payscale most CS workers have a higher income now than in 2007.

This thread is about the ESB, why do people like you keep turning every thread into a bash the civil servant one.

amacachi

Godge wrote: »

This thread is about the ESB, why do people like you keep turning every thread into a bash the civil servant one.

You brought up the apparent paycuts in the CS, not me.

Richard tea

Fair play to Mr Ogle. Pitty there are not more like him.

TheInquisitor

The average cost of an ESB worker in 2010 was €133637

Total employee related costs 962,321,000. ( Yes thats right , just under a Billion)

Average number of employees during the year 7201.

The average Salary including overtime and benefits was €81,570.

All viewable here

http://europe.nxtbook.com/nxteu/zahra/esb_annualreport2010/index.php#/86

murphaph

Richard tea wrote: »

Fair play to Mr Ogle. Pitty there are not more like him.

:eek:

This man and his union "switch the lights of ilk" are part of the problem. A BIG part of it. He is as militant as they come and caused big problems at CIE as the TGWU weren't militant enough for him he went off and set up ILDA. He's a scourge on any (non-cosseted union head) worker and now apparently quite a hypocrite too (but aren't all these union heads on their big fat salaries and Mercs?).

someuser905

in spain when the air traffic controllers started this shjt, they fired the lot of them

therecklessone

someuser905 wrote: »

in spain when the air traffic controllers started this shjt, they fired the lot of them

No they didn't.

someuser905

so ur defending there 133k wages?

therecklessone

someuser905 wrote: »

so ur defending there 133k wages?

The accuracy of that conclusion is roughly on a par with your original statement.

patwicklow

a complete rip off, thank god im in the process of building my own wind mill for energy and wont depend on them were being conned left right and center in this country with the corrupt at the top,

The_Thing

I am fully supportive of the sentiment which Mr. Ogle has expressed in the video. The only reason this was printed is because the hacks at the Indo are afraid of what he said.

It's about time we had more like him.

Gumbo

therecklessone wrote: »

DB with a staff contribution AFAIK. Certainly long-serving members are on a DB scheme.

It had a deficit of approaching €2bn until the deal was struck and implemented at the ail end of last year.

Long timers maybe, but recruits from recent years are on a DC scheme which upon retirement the fund is alocated to the employee to "buy" a pension "somewhere".

tails_naf

kceire wrote: »

Pity they dont talk about the normal workers in there earning mid 20k and on pay freezes, not rises for the last 3 years.

Change the record please. You can't seriously be claiming there are many on 25k or anything like it in the ESB when the average is 75k (95 with pension).

Please define what you mean by 'normal' too - it gives the impression this 25k salary is even quite common!

It's so bad even a union head sees it - that's pretty amazing.

What's worse than paying these kinds of salaries is the fact that some on the good wages, such as electricians in power stations don't do any work at all. I know this because I am good friends with an electrician who said whenever there is work needed in the local power station done, they call him in. No matter the job - from changing a lightbulb, to serious work - they always get someone one in. He doesn't mind as it's a source of income - but its sickening there are 5 full time electricians employed in that power station, surely pulling in 60k each.

Godge

tails_naf wrote: »

Change the record please. You can't seriously be claiming there are many on 25k or anything like it in the ESB when the average is 75k (95 with pension).

Please define what you mean by 'normal' too - it gives the impression this 25k salary is even quite common!

It's so bad even a union head sees it - that's pretty amazing.

What's worse than paying these kinds of salaries is the fact that some on the good wages, such as electricians in power stations don't do any work at all. I know this because I am good friends with an electrician who said whenever there is work needed in the local power station done, they call him in. No matter the job - from changing a lightbulb, to serious work - they always get someone one in. He doesn't mind as it's a source of income - but its sickening there are 5 full time electricians employed in that power station, surely pulling in 60k each.

The cleaners and the secretaries would be on 25k, everyone else would be on multiples of that.

noxqs

If there was ever a compelling argument for privatization of state owned enterprises. This is it.

I wish ESB was floated on the stock markets first thing Monday via an IPO and the Board of Directors and CEO replaced. There would be changes.

tails_naf

noxqs wrote: »

If there was ever a compelling argument for privatization of state owned enterprises. This is it.

I wish ESB was floated on the stock markets first thing Monday via an IPO and the Board of Directors and CEO replaced. There would be changes.

Sounds good on the surface, but there's no guarantee that would make prices come down. I'm sure a private company would definitely tackle the wages - but they may still hang on to the increased profits for themselves, rather than passing it on.

Prices would only come down with true competition in the electricity market, possibly followed by privatization.

MagicSean

Stripey Cat wrote: »

In Kazakhstan, the government made a deal with the energy companies that ensures cheap natural gas for the people.

In Ireland, we gave all our natural resources to Shell.

What were we gonna do? Go out with picks and hammers and dig up the gas ourselves? We have absolutely no expertise in off shore refining. If not for Shell it would all just be sitting there for many more years.

Pete_Cavan

tails_naf wrote: »

Sounds good on the surface, but there's no guarantee that would make prices come down. I'm sure a private company would definitely tackle the wages - but they may still hang on to the increased profits for themselves, rather than passing it on.

Prices would only come down with true competition in the electricity market, possibly followed by privatization.

Exactly.

The government would be able to create a competitive market in energy production if it were to sell off its energy producing assets to a number of private companies but retain the national grid. They simply sell off the assets to a number of private companies, commission the National Competitiveness Council to produce a report to determine how many of these companies we need to have good competition but also economies of scale. The state could retain a number of assets and compete in the market if they wished. The Energy Regulator would regulate the market and prevent monopolies from developing. The private companies would have to pay towards the maintenance and upgrade of the grid, perhaps the amount they pay be based on their market share which would improve competition.

If all energy producers are selling there electricity through the one national grid then producers compete on price only because the product is exactly the same regardless of who produces it (your kettle will not refuse to work because it does not like one companies electricity). You will have no connection fees if you change your energy supplier because it still comes off the same grid, and all your electrical goods will continue to work the same as before so the only factors you will consider where choosing your supplier is price. All energy producers are therefore forced to produce electricity at the lowest possible price in order to gain customers.

I see from the etenders website that Energia, a private company, have recently won two large contracts for the supply of electricity to DCC and DAA, no doubt having beat off stiff competition from semi state competitors. I would love to see what kind of rates they would offer if they were allowed to compete in the domestic energy market on a level playing field. Bringing down energy prices would provide a huge boost to our economy.

Gumbo

tails_naf wrote: »

Change the record please. You can't seriously be claiming there are many on 25k or anything like it in the ESB when the average is 75k (95 with pension).

Please define what you mean by 'normal' too - it gives the impression this 25k salary is even quite common!

It's so bad even a union head sees it - that's pretty amazing.

What's worse than paying these kinds of salaries is the fact that some on the good wages, such as electricians in power stations don't do any work at all. I know this because I am good friends with an electrician who said whenever there is work needed in the local power station done, they call him in. No matter the job - from changing a lightbulb, to serious work - they always get someone one in. He doesn't mind as it's a source of income - but its sickening there are 5 full time electricians employed in that power station, surely pulling in 60k each.

Please change the CD yourself
You put down my argument then go straight into a rant about things you heard froma a mate or a mate of a mate or a dog that heard it from a chicken that belongs to your mate :rolleyes:

Then you go on to make wild assumptions, which by your own admission, know NOTHING about :

surely pulling in 60k each

So please, less of the hearsay and more facts in your posts
I personally know of one whole ESB department (An Admin Dept) with 99% of the workforce on mid 20's to mid 30's.

noxqs

Kceire: The fact that you know people on less than the ESB average wage only strengthens the argument against ESB.

The fact remains:

Expenditure on Payroll / employees = 75.5K

So someone in ESB is pulling in an extremely high wage if there is still people in the 20K-30K range in ESB. What the hell is going on here.

murphaph

kceire wrote: »

So please, less of the hearsay and more facts in your posts
I personally know of one whole ESB department (An Admin Dept) with 99% of the workforce on mid 20's to mid 30's.

Someone earning mid 30s for admin is also very much overpaid of course Low 20's would be the average in private sector for the equivalent work, with no increments for just managing to not get fired in the previous year.

I suspect that every single ESB employee is overpaid compared to what they would get in the private sector for equivalent work, including anyone on 25k in there.

AlekSmart

murphaph wrote: »

Someone earning mid 30s for admin is also very much overpaid of course Low 20's would be the average in private sector for the equivalent work, with no increments for just managing to not get fired in the previous year.

I suspect that every single ESB employee is overpaid compared to what they would get in the private sector for equivalent work, including anyone on 25k in there.

Unfortunately Murphaph,given your current address,you can far nore readily identify this Irish National Trait of over reward.

However,singling out the ESB or indeed any particular sector is merely throwing a dust-sheet over the Big Pink Elephant of greater Irish expectation levels relating to our "entitlements".

Brian Cowen stated the obvious quite a while back,but it was all hidden in the undergrowth....

http://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/surviving-the-recession/standards-of-living-set-to-plummet-1698889.html

Until the penny/cent drops that Ireland has to sustain itself relative to it's own abilities then we'll do nothing except throw stones at each other across shaky peace lines

MagicSean

noxqs wrote: »

So someone in ESB is pulling in an extremely high wage if there is still people in the 20K-30K range in ESB.

That's pretty much the case in the entire public sector. It's why average wage figures are pretty pointless.

murphaph

AlekSmart wrote: »

Unfortunately Murphaph,given your current address,you can far nore readily identify this Irish National Trait of over reward.

However,singling out the ESB or indeed any particular sector is merely throwing a dust-sheet over the Big Pink Elephant of greater Irish expectation levels relating to our "entitlements".

Brian Cowen stated the obvious quite a while back,but it was all hidden in the undergrowth....

http://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/surviving-the-recession/standards-of-living-set-to-plummet-1698889.html

Until the penny/cent drops that Ireland has to sustain itself relative to it's own abilities then we'll do nothing except throw stones at each other across shaky peace lines

There certainly is a weird sense of entitlement there alright-across all sectors. As if the Irish have a God given right to earn a very much above the European average wage, despite not really offering anything special that can't be done elsewhere in Europe.

Slightly off topic but salient nonetheless....I was watching a docu on BBC FOUR about the railways in Bombay and it was just a different world. The drivers hit and kill approximately 70 people in an average career (app 10 people a day are killed on the Bombay network). They have to get down from the cab and move the body(parts) to the side of the track and get the train moving again so as not to cripple the system. They get no counseling etc. For those out of work there is no welfare there - you work or you starve.

I am not advocating a move to this sort of standard btw, but we are 1000% the opposite way in Ireland, with people on welfare getting out the calculator to "see if it's worth their while taking a job". People in Ireland (since a few short years mind!) now expect to get all manner of benefits for doing nothing. We generally (also those of us in the private sector!) expect to get paid more than the "chumps" in other Western EU states. We began paying ourselves more and more and then began justifying it because of the cost of our poorly built housing. The rest of the world of course doesn't care how much it costs to buy a poorly insulated (both acoustically and thermally) dwelling in Ireland. They just care if it costs more to buy an Irish product than a comparable one from somewhere else.

Irish living standards are about to return to what they should have been all along, nothing more dramatic. People will have to be content with home made sandwiches for lunch instead of O'Brien's. People will have to be content with an older car, not replacing their perfectly good kitchen for a new one at huge cost, going to Spain on holidays instead of somewhere more exotic.

We need to learn one thing above all for the future: Wage restraint.