Feel sick after being billed 800 Euros by O2 for internet overuse....

JJ O Malley

In recent months i signed up for mobile O2 broadband. The contract is for 18 months and costs 20 per month with a 15GB allowance, which i was told would be more than enough for my requirements. We don't play gaming online, or do a whole pile of movie downloads.

In the first 2 months i found that the internet wasn't working so i called O2 and found that we had somehow exceeded our allowance by about 400 euros. I was shocked to find we could go that far over the allowance and not find out. I was told that letters were sent to me to make me aware, although i never received any.. It turned out they were returned as the postman was not able to locate me (we live in a rural area, no numbers on the doors, and i'm newish to the area.)

After discussions with O2 they agreed to waive 85% of the charge which meant i had to pay over 100Euros.
I spoke to my partner and found that she had been downloading lots of movies , some music and also watching U tube.. so i presumed that this was the reason for the overuse. she wasn't aware of the limit, which was my fault for not communicating, but i had felt that the limit was such that we wouldn't ever reach it..

I paid and accepted this as a lesson learned. My partner and I agreed to do no further downloading, streaming, etc.. Even agreeing to not use U tube. The internet was to be used minimally for browsing, emails and facebook...

I felt we had put in place adequate controls to ensure that we wouldn't use more than say 20% of our monthly allowance of 15GB for the future.

I was also told by the O2 customer service lady that i should check my usage during the month to ensure i didn't exceed the limit. I tried to register myself but was unable at that time as my account was frozen/suspended. I also tried again the following week when the account was un-frozen again, but being not too internet savy i failed. Either way i assumed as we had put in place very stringent over the top controls regarding using the internet only for browsing and emails that we wouldn't go anywhere close to our allowance...

Imagine my horror when a couple of months later i found that the internet wasn't working again.. I called up O2 and found that we had again exceeded our usage... After much discussion i was told that the total would be 800 Euros for less than 2 months internet usage... Considering we had a 20E per month contract i was sickened to find that we had a bill for 40 times this amount, expecially considering we weren't using the internet for any downloads or streaming movies or anything which would be deemed to be excessive use...

When i was informed of the first overuse charge a couple of months ago i asked whether or not it was possible to have the internet blocked were we to ever exceed the limit therfore making it impossible to incurr massive amounts of charges.. I was told that this was not possible and i had to monitor my usage in order to control the usage.

I since found that it is possible to have text alerts set at an amount so you can't go over without knowing about it. If this had been set up i wouldn't have been hit with the second charge of 800Euros. I recall arguing this point a couple of months prior and wasn't told anything of this alerts...

So here i am with a bill which i can't either afford to pay and nor do i want to pay. This in my poinion is extortion. How can O2 justify charging a customer the equivalent of 40 times their monthly rate of 20Euros.

I found out since that my computer had a torrent on it. I had no idea what a torrent was but now know that people were uploading using my internet therefore using my internet allowance.. I didn't even know this was possible...

After the O2 lady spoke to her manager they agreed to waive 50% of the bill, which leaves me with 400Euros to pay...

How could O2 allow the bill to continue to climb to such a huge amount before they cut it off? I was told that some letters were sent to my address but they were all returned to sender as postie doesn't know me..

I completely agreed that i should have been more careful in monitoring my usage... Due to me being incompetent i failed to register properly, but i had believed that i had more than sufficient controls in place as the internet was not being used by either myself or my partner for anything other than emails and browsing. No movie downloads, music downloads, gaming or anything else which would constitute heavy use. Also i am so busy with work and family life that sitting down for an hour to figure out how to register and set up my account to monitor my usage is something i kept putting off....

I have a young family, a mortgage a car loan etc etc. My partner had returned to college so we aren't a family which earns two wages.. I can only just about manage to keep up with payments. Most months i have to borrow a few quid to get to the next pay day... I simply can't justify having to make this payment. Even if i was to pay X amount of euros per month it is still 400 Euros which is more than my car insurance!!! and all for a few weeks internet access... I could have got unlimited broadband for a fraction of this amount. could O2 have kept my internet bill building up for another few months and hit me with a bill of say 5000 Euros? where does it end? Why stop my account at 800Euros and not 80Euros or 5000 Euros?

Yesterday i went into my local citizen advice centre but unfortunately they were too busy to accomodate me. I will call back in 2 weeks, or call to a local solicitor and hear their advice..

I beg everyone who reads this and use O2 to ensure they have their text alerts set up and also monitor their usage.... and most of all ensure that they have torrents turned off or deleted....

Does anyone have any advice for me? What options do i have? I will probably not continue my contract as i can't pay this money. Dressing and feeding my kids, buying school books and paying a creche is more important.

Regards,
JJ...

Kinetic^

Pay your bill, you owe them money. That's the only advice you should be getting.

JJ O Malley

Kinetic^ wrote: »

Pay your bill, you owe them money. That's the only advice you should be getting.

Thanks Kinetic,

You don't feel that there is some point where O2 should stop adding up the hundreds? Would you say the same if it was 2000Euros or 5000Euros?
Why did O2 let it go to 800Euros?

cheers
JJ

TheDriver

unfortunately you should have set up a text alert. O2 should ideally have something automatically telling you but alas they don't but they are the business. Rotten I know but unfortunately you are caught.
How did you go over so much in the last 2 months? Are you sure your partner isn't downloading more movies etc? Something must have been using it

JJ O Malley

TheDriver wrote: »

unfortunately you should have set up a text alert. O2 should ideally have something automatically telling you but alas they don't but they are the business. Rotten I know but unfortunately you are caught.
How did you go over so much in the last 2 months? Are you sure your partner isn't downloading more movies etc? Something must have been using it

Hi there,

We went over due to a torrent being on my pc... I didn't know at the time, but torrents use up your allowance by other persons uploading through your pc (or something like that) Sorry, thats my understanding at least.

Regards,
JJ

charlemont

Stick the bill where it belongs.

BTW You seriously need to learn some basic things about the internet.

ejmaztec

JJ O Malley wrote: »

Hi there,

We went over due to a torrent being on my pc... I didn't know at the time, but torrents use up your allowance by other persons uploading through your pc (or something like that) Sorry, thats my understanding at least.

Regards,
JJ

A torrent of abuse?

dohouch

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jor el

A torrent doesn't just get on your computer. You need to install a program, like BotTorrent, then you download the torrent file and open it into that program. And you have to set up the torrent program to run at start up, or stop it from doing so. It required someone to do this, and if you have no idea how you did this, then you should really disconnect from the Internet all together until you find out how.

JJ O Malley wrote: »

Why did O2 let it go to 800Euros?

You can't blame O2 for all of this. The other side of that question is why did you let it get that far? People are responsible for the services they purchase, and the provider is not responsible for your actions. This is how it has been since the very beginning of telecommunications. They tell you the limits and the charges when you sign up. If you don't know what that means, how to monitor it, or how to stop it, then you shouldn't be buying the service in the first place.

How can they justify the charge? Well, outside bundle charges are nothing new, and have always been higher than the inside bundle charges. Are you familiar with 1c texts when bought in a bundle? The same text costs 10c outside the bundle. What about inclusive minutes? Calls are more expensive per minute outside the bundle. I can't believe that people think that data is somehow going to have a different pricing structure. You may get 10GB for €20, but they charge €20 per GB outside of that.

The charges may be high, but they're not exactly new. Most people in this country have been using mobile phones for 15 years. If this is the first you're hearing about these kinds of charges, then you must have been living under a rock.

McLoughlin

You are responsible for your actions not the provider you should educated yourself about the Internet and downloading pay the full bill and delete your torrent application and moniter your usage to avoid further excedding the limits.

dudara

There really isn't a Consumer Issue here - moved instead to the Mid-Broadband forum

dudara

downwithpeace

Pay as you go would probably suit you better, more expensive for less data but your limited to what you have already paid for so once your allowance is used that's it unless you have out of bundle enabled (Three option, no idea about O2) and it will use the credit on your account until it's all used up.

The issue is getting out of your contract, you could try pleading your case with O2 but i suspect they'll say no or charge you a cancellation fee which could be expensive.

she wasn't aware of the limit, which was my fault for not communicating

Heh, we've all been there

fatherbuzcagney

Horrible situation to be in. Firstly, I would choke the postman , then i would tell o2 to see me in court because the summons will never reach you like the warning letters.

Serously , i do not think that o2 can let a bill run up so high without contacting the customer, switch off the broadband for a day and the customer will ring up immediatly if not sooner

CarrickMcJoe

So JJ, you are actually saying you are living at the address for over 4 months and had not even recieved 1 letter of any sort Bank statment, Visa bill, ESB bill.

Jesus man, wait till they come.

nirvanaholic

JJ, make sure the torrent application is uninstalled. If you don't know how to uninstall it get somebody who knows how to, even if you have to pay them. This way the torrent cant be uploading and using up your allowance.

If your still not registered on the O2 account to check your usage each month, get the worker in the o2 shop to do it for you. They can do it on their pc in the shop and show you how to log in etc..

One other thing, by having a torrent application open while the internet is on should mean (not necessarily tho) that there is an icon beside the clock in the bottom right hand corner of the screen. If you have one with torrent on it or limewire for that matter, right click on it and click exit. Uninstall it anyway completely to be safe.

I'm with o2 broadband for over 2 years. Had to pay 50 or 60e extra once for going over the limit but that was only time i ever got cought.

CiaranC

dudara wrote: »

There really isn't a Consumer Issue here - moved instead to the Mid-Broadband forum

dudara

It is a consumer issue. These telcos should be throttling your speed or cutting off your connection when you reach the agreed download limit, not charging obscene rates for tiny amounts of data. Scumbags.

smellslikeshoes

O2 are within their rights to demand every cent of the money, but if you ring them up and explain the situation and grovel a little they are often accommodating and might knock some off it.

CiaranC wrote: »

It is a consumer issue. These telcos should be throttling your speed or cutting off your connection when you reach the agreed download limit, not charging obscene rates for tiny amounts of data. Scumbags.

Rubbish, he signed up to their product with their terms and conditions it's not like they forced him to sign up.

shaneyboy1

the same thing happened to me,when i was buying the dongle in the shop the girl told me i would get a message to tell me i was about to reach my limit.i never did get the message and got a bill for nearly 900 euro!!
i told them i wasnt paying as the girl told me i would recieve a message and they tried to get me to pay 75% of it first then 50% and 25%.i told them i would pay the 40 euro that i owed and hung up the phone,havent heard anything from them since and that was about 2 years ago

P.S if i was you OP i would get rid of it,them dongles are only a pile of ****E!

Profondo Rosso

JJ, keep the kids fed and dressed. And stay off the internet.

jumbo

I think it is profoundly sickening that o2 do this, and I find it quite disturbing that the overall sentiment on boards here is that it is "okay" and that they are "within their rights". They may be right within the letter of the law (which is, as we all know profoundly imbalanced away from the likes of us & JJ) but certainly not in terms of decency, or any kind of business that creates value as opposed to trying to snaffle a few quid through dirty tricks here and there. We have a word for this, it's gombeenism, and it is recognised as such by the EU at least who force operators to *cut you off* as soon as you reach €50 - sadly these rules only apply to roaming.

Unfortunately JJ I have had a similar situation recently, and I am quite tech-savvy.. I simply got caught out trying what I thought was a fairly handy feature of my phone (i.e. 'tethering' or using it as a modem). Though there is a warning that 'additional charges' might be applied, nowhere is there a warning that these charges will be in the region of 99c per megabyte!

They waived a good portion of the charge but I did end up stuck with a fairly hefty chunk at the end though. The story's actually a good bit longer and convoluted than this, but suffice to say people, just *be careful*!

Fuzzy Clam

jumbo wrote: »

I think it is profoundly sickening that o2 do this, and I find it quite disturbing that the overall sentiment on boards here is that it is "okay" and that they are "within their rights".

To be fair here, O2 did send letters the 1st time it happened and waived most of the bill. The lesson should have been learnt then. Also, it's not their fault that "somebody" in the family installed torrent resulting in the 2nd excess charges.
It's not o2 that are at fault here.
And it's not their responsibility to ensure that the OP is receiving his post, is it? Got to say I'm not sure I believe that bit of the story. Rural posties are good at figuring out who is new in the area.

jumbo

seriously, in this day and age, what is the sense in sending a letter 'by post' in response to an ongoing transaction which is billing literally by the second? Aw gee tanks o2.

blaz

First, part of the blame clearly goes to the op for not educating himself enough and not learning from the first experience.

But the main issue as I see it is the mobile operators charging 40x or more for the same thing. Imagine this, you walk into your local Spar and you buy 1L of milk for €1.5. The next day you buy 2L and get charged €3. The third day you buy 3L and you get charged €450. Would you agree this is not acceptable?

So why can a mobile operator then charge €20 for 15GB (that's 75c per GB), yet anything above that is 2c per MB which is €20.5 per GB, around 27x as much as the base charge?

If mobile operators don't want users to overload their network they should simply CUT OFF their connectivity instead of charging them exorbitant amounts of money.

jor el

blaz wrote: »

So why can a mobile operator then charge €20 for 15GB (that's 75c per GB), yet anything above that is 2c per MB which is €20.5 per GB, around 27x as much as the base charge?

Because they make practically no money on the bundled data. When you go over the allowance, they charge you a premium for it.

blaz wrote: »

If mobile operators don't want users to overload their network they should simply CUT OFF their connectivity instead of charging them exorbitant amounts of money.

If you have a bill pay phone, mobile or landline, does the operator cut you off when you exceed your allotted minutes? No, they don't.

Why do people think that mobile data is any different than mobile calls and texts? It's the same technology, the same billing system, the same price structure, and the same company that supply the service. Why would it be any different?

Fuzzy Clam

blaz wrote: »

Imagine this, you walk into your local Spar and you buy 1L of milk for €1.5. The next day you buy 2L and get charged €3. The third day you buy 3L and you get charged €450. Would you agree this is not acceptable?

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Fuzzy Clam

blaz wrote: »

First, part of the blame clearly goes to the op for not educating himself enough and not learning from the first experience.

All the blame. The OP said they didn't D/L movies or use YouTube but they did. Not to mention the Torrent.

If mobile operators don't want users to overload their network they should simply CUT OFF their connectivity instead of charging them exorbitant amounts of money.

I'm sure the operators are happy enough to charge to charge for excessive usage. That is, usage over the prepaid amount.
I disagree with cutting off because it may be required for business etc.

I have a 50 min free call package with Vodafone + an extra 200 mins that they give me as a sweetener. If I drift over that I pay a few extra quid, no problem there and I wouldn't want them to cut me off for going over.
However, I wouldn't use my mobile continuously and expect Vodafone to notify me for going over my allowance.

There is a mechanism in place to notify by text when the data is exceeded (or close to) but it is up to the customer to be aware or this.
Perhaps this should be made clearer to the customer.

rdnd

I too have had the same experience with O2 today. My bill is for 1100 euro. Like you, the internet was stopped in January as the bill came to 400 euro. We too are not computer whizzes and the first mistake was due to us downloading movies. Totally our fault and I admit that. The latest one is again a torrent and we have apparently being sharing files on our computer. Spoke with O2 on the phone and on the forum today and was told that they helped us out once but not again. How did you get them to help the second time. We have begged and pleaded. HELP.

blaz

jor el wrote: »

If you have a bill pay phone, mobile or landline, does the operator cut you off when you exceed your allotted minutes? No, they don't.

Yes they do. If you roam using your mobile phone and you rack up more then €50 of data charges they have to cut you off due to European regulations. Yet when the same thing happens in Ireland, they don't.

harryohh

It seems the problem here is people like the OP don't understand at all just how little data 15GB is.

If you download movies and watch youtube etc then 15GB could be surpassed in a couple of days.Feature-lenght movies are minimum 700MB (0.7GB) or so. I mean it is there in front of you when downloading how could you miss it? Also plenty of movies are more than this. Even 6 or 7 times more for HD(720p) movies.

To go €800 over the bill that's like 40 extra GB (€20 per GB, I think). No way a torrent running in the background (even constantly) could go this far over. Not at midband speeds anyway.

I do, however, think that's it's bad form from O2 to take advantage of people like the OP. But people just need to educate themselves further and not listen to "some lady in the store".

CiaranC

jor el wrote: »

Because they make practically no money on the bundled data. When you go over the allowance, they charge you a premium for it.

Sounds like a scam to me.

tsoparno

rdnd wrote: »

I too have had the same experience with O2 today. My bill is for 1100 euro. Like you, the internet was stopped in January as the bill came to 400 euro. We too are not computer whizzes and the first mistake was due to us downloading movies. Totally our fault and I admit that. The latest one is again a torrent and we have apparently being sharing files on our computer. Spoke with O2 on the phone and on the forum today and was told that they helped us out once but not again. How did you get them to help the second time. We have begged and pleaded. HELP.

i'd chance bluffing em,like another poster said tell them you where told you'd receive a message when you went over the limit and you didnt get it.
otherwise i'd offer them x amount a month

jor el

CiaranC wrote: »

Sounds like a scam to me.

What sounds like a scam? If you don't understand the facts, don't go making accusations like that.

blaz wrote:

Yes they do. If you roam using your mobile phone and you rack up more then €50 of data charges they have to cut you off due to European regulations. Yet when the same thing happens in Ireland, they don't.

No, they don't. Roaming caps are irrelevant, as it doesn't apply when you're at home. You get no data allowance when roaming, which is why the price cap was put in place. There is an allowance when you're on your domestic tariff, so no need for a price cap.

Hootanany

Kinetic^ wrote: »

Pay your bill, you owe them money. That's the only advice you should be getting.

That's not very nice advice

carveone

More experts on boards.ie who've never been owned, never accidently left a Sky+ app or a torrent running, never roamed by accident near the border, never had their WiFi hacked, don't have kids who've pressed buttons on their phones etc etc.

It'd be funny if you were driving around the country and crossed some invisible line and then got a bill for €150/litre of petrol because it was in the terms and conditions. Even funnier if someone stole your car and you still got that bill...

Where do you think the line should be drawn? 50k? 100k? 500k? Or are all consumers stupid and deserve bankrupcy without warning for not understanding the minutae? I'll assume you've all read your credit card and bank charges terms and conditions yeah. And your mortgage? Grand so, you're perfect.

Don't forget that when the EU stepped in on roaming costs, and capped it at €50/month, it was on the back of horror stories of 4 and 5 figure bills. It was these "stupid users who don't read their terms and conditions" that caused all our roaming bills to plummet. So, thanks guys! Bit hard on you, but good for my mobile bill.

The Minister for Communications needs to get involved and kick some ass here (pigs will fly). I think we've all had enough of corporations trying to bankrupt us.

Without going on and on about this (too late!), I think the only reasonable way to use 3G is pay-as-you-go. Yes, it's more expensive, but if there's an accident like this, you cannot lose money. Hell, O2 don't even know who you are...

Amalgam

carveone, spot on. I think the piecemeal 'reduction negotiation', after the fact, shows how much of an unregulated area this is..

All it needs is one good legal challenge, or the EU.

If there's one positive from JJ O Malley's thread, it is that his problem and the problems of thousands and thousands of others, will eventually force a change in legislation.

No faith in Irish politicians sorting it out either, it'll be from Europe, again..

Amalgam

Oh.. and just to add, across all the providers forums, what has been obvious is how slack and cack handed the provided 'data counters' are.

Jumping around like a frog on a hot plate, or dead, or doubling what is actually being used.

charlemont

carveone wrote: »

More experts on boards.ie who've never been owned, never accidently left a Sky+ app or a torrent running, never roamed by accident near the border, never had their WiFi hacked, don't have kids who've pressed buttons on their phones etc etc.

It'd be funny if you were driving around the country and crossed some invisible line and then got a bill for €150/litre of petrol because it was in the terms and conditions. Even funnier if someone stole your car and you still got that bill...

Where do you think the line should be drawn? 50k? 100k? 500k? Or are all consumers stupid and deserve bankrupcy without warning for not understanding the minutae? I'll assume you've all read your credit card and bank charges terms and conditions yeah. And your mortgage? Grand so, you're perfect.

Don't forget that when the EU stepped in on roaming costs, and capped it at €50/month, it was on the back of horror stories of 4 and 5 figure bills. It was these "stupid users who don't read their terms and conditions" that caused all our roaming bills to plummet. So, thanks guys! Bit hard on you, but good for my mobile bill.

The Minister for Communications needs to get involved and kick some ass here (pigs will fly). I think we've all had enough of corporations trying to bankrupt us.

Without going on and on about this (too late!), I think the only reasonable way to use 3G is pay-as-you-go. Yes, it's more expensive, but if there's an accident like this, you cannot lose money. Hell, O2 don't even know who you are...

Stick the bill in the bin and stop worrying about it, Dont mind some people on here who would rate you up there with Hitler and Larry Murphy for not paying the bill.

carveone

Amalgam wrote: »

Oh.. and just to add, across all the providers forums, what has been obvious is how slack and cack handed the provided 'data counters' are.

Oh yeah! That's another thing

I thought Eircom were insane - they have a data counter, but it runs on the localhost, hooking into the network stack. Um. What is Eircom missing about the whole "networked" thing here given that the PC is connected to the netopia router and then to Eircom's router which both know the traffic stats! Guess VB doesn't have an snmp box to drag onto a form :rolleyes:

They do have a web graphy thing somewhere, which is some help I suppose.

I wouldn't suggest sticking the bill in the bin, as painful as it may seem. These companies can really screw with your credit rating; you don't want to be heading down that road if possible. A negotiated settlement would be far preferable, maybe with the help of the National Consumer Agency. Writing to the NCA and TDs and your local paper can't hurt either.

Then, given that you're locked into a contract, find a WiFi/3G router (Amazon.co.uk, from £30) that will let you block troublesome connections and hopefully cap your traffic... Make it easier to share a connection too.

Kensington

CiaranC wrote: »

Sounds like a scam to me.

It's not a scam at all.

Data transfers suck up enormous amounts of network resources but provide very little along the lines of monetary return for the operator. There are posts by another user "watty" on this board that goes into great depth on the matter but essentially - binary bit for bit, voice and SMS traffic is far, far more lucrative to the operator than plain old IP packets. It's also far, far less resource intensive.

Therefore, in an attempt to persuade you against hogging vast amounts of network resources and to also provide a sustainable return for the operator, they charge penal rates outside of a fixed allowance.

While there is an argument for imposing limits, where exactly do you draw the line?
The customer who runs up a €1,000 bill in overage charges complains their internet should have been cut off.
The customer who gets cut off because they've exceeded a set limit designed to prevent extreme overage charges complains that they couldn't send that vitally important e-mail, job application or money transfer on time.

@JJ: Talk to O2, I imagine they will be willing to be flexible regarding the amount owed if it's a genuine, first time mistake.
Their forum here on boards is [here] or their own forum on their website is [here].

Amalgam

Kensington wrote: »

@JJ: Talk to O2, I imagine they will be willing to be flexible regarding the amount owed if it's a genuine, first time mistake.

'Flexible'.. 'genuine', doff your cap, maybe talk to them on the phone, with a whimpering voice, a few sniffles. Go all Father Jack on them, I'm sooooooo sooooooo sorrrrrrrrrrryy.

Yeah, right.

Kensington, all that's needed is an email or SMS to warn the customer they are now out of bundle. Nothing else required.

Inexcusable that a *simple* action like that is not available, speaks volumes about mobile operators mode of doing business, when it comes to 'open ended' bill pay data access.

It is inexcusable.

Kensington

I believe O2 do offer spend alerts which you are able to set-up. However as it is a mobile broadband service, an SMS may not be immediately visible.

I agree €800 bills are ridiculous - it's unfair on the customer and damaging to the operator's brand.

However, for one customer who complains there's a limit, you'd have another who'd complain an imposed limit cut them off during something vitally important. Where do you draw the line?

If you prefer to remain fixed within a limit then there are prepay offerings.

Bear in mind, too, if you ran up a large ESB, Bord Gais or telephone bill, you'd be expected to pay it and you wouldn't be given any sort of warning about a large volume of consumption occurring.

jor el

carveone wrote: »

More experts on boards.ie who've never been owned, never accidently left a Sky+ app or a torrent running, never roamed by accident near the border, never had their WiFi hacked, don't have kids who've pressed buttons on their phones etc etc.

So what you're saying is no one should be held accountable for their own actions, or lack of action, then? That's great advice. Everyone just go an do exactly what they want to do, and to hell with the consequences.

Who installed the torrent app? You did, it's your responsibility to make sure it's turned off. Accidentally leaving it running is no excuse, and you should pay for your mistake. Accidental roaming is something that you can avoid by disabling roaming, something you should be acutely aware of if you're in the border area. Who let the child use the phone? The adult did, therefore it's their fault and responsibility. Why do people feel the need to give their phone to a child, and then turn around and blame the network when the child signs them up to some premium rate service?

One cannot shrug their responsibilities just because they're too lazy/ignorant/stupid/apathetic to know what they're doing.

A Wifi hack is about the only point of note. With good WPA2 encryption that is virtually impossible. Certainly for a casual hacker anyway, and the majority of neighbours that are just looking for free Internet. If you have set up no security, or are still using WEP, then you're pretty much inviting squatters in. The security of your own network is your responsibility.

If you don't know what you're agreeing to, then you shouldn't be agreeing to it. If you can't control your Internet usage, then you shouldn't be on it.

It may not be nice, and it may put you under financial trouble, but that's the way it is. Learn to understand what you're buying and using first.

carveone

jor el wrote: »

So what you're saying is no one should be held accountable for their own actions, or lack of action, then? That's great advice. Everyone just go an do exactly what they want to do, and to hell with the consequences.

Absolutely not, and I moderated my position slightly on the next post - I said you can't just not pay the bill. I'm saying that the consequences for an error in judgement shouldn't be disproportionate, especially as the roaming issue had become so acute the EU had to step in.

I saw a post a few months ago where a guy had some Sky app installed on his laptop that burned through his cap in 2 days. Lucky he was on PAYG and his punishment was limited to 20 quid. I don't think he was careless or stupid, he just didn't spot it in time.

(On the other side of the coin I also have zero sympathy for the type of gimme-gimme user who wants infinite bandwidth for pennies so he can illegally download movies that I've just paid for in the cinema.)

Kensington's posts show both sides of the argument pretty well...

When any technology becomes commoditised to the extent that computers and broadband has, you run the danger of this type of thing happening. And it doesn't just hurt the user, it damages the company's image and likely costs them money in support and general agro. A perfect example was the way Eircom shipped routers with wireless on and WEP encryption and lots of silly software hoops to jump through that made you think you were secure. The average user isn't going to know and I wouldn't expect them to. This has become off the shelf commodity stuff, like toothpaste or toilet paper. Boards.ie users were heavily critical of Eircom but nothing happened until it hit the papers.

If you don't know what you're agreeing to, then you shouldn't be agreeing to it. If you can't control your Internet usage, then you shouldn't be on it.

It may not be nice, and it may put you under financial trouble, but that's the way it is. Learn to understand what you're buying and using first.

Funnily enough I actually do agree with you. I'm not just being contratrian for the laugh. I actually believe this stuff should be taught in schools - dealing with corporations 101. Understanding your rights. Knowing how to do a tax return. Reading terms and conditions. Understanding interest rates and how shops screw you on them. Knowing that you can cross stuff off on a mortgage agreement like my brother did and the bank will still sign it without checking :rolleyes:

carveone

Off topic bit: I'll also add that you are obviously a highly technical person as are many others on boards.ie. I think Windows and broadband become popular and commodised solely because people like you and me (well, me anyway) subsidised companies like MS and Eircom by handholding users. We gave 1000s of hours of our time so that companies could sell more tat that didn't work properly out of the box. This is why I'm tetchy about them now!!

When the web came along, websites that followed this model failed instantly. They relied on millions of ordinary people making purchases. If you insulted them, or confused them, or talked down or bambozzled them with tech talk, you failed. Game over.

And then Apple came along. I've seen ordinary non-technical folk use iPhones at astounding speeds - my sister uses hers at a blur, my eyes can't even register the screen before she's ticked three settings and confirmed and sent two texts and replied to facebook and...

jay93

I really doubt it cost's a mobile network €20 to transfer 1GB of data when they can offer €15-20 for 15GB ,to actually believe that it costs so much is ridiculous they are ripping people off something serious ,corporations get away with way to much in Ireland..maybe €2 per GB wouldn't be so bad?the way i see it is that out of bundle chargers are just for the networks to pocket extra money.

Gophur

Kinetic^ wrote: »

Pay your bill, you owe them money. That's the only advice you should be getting.

McLoughlin wrote: »

You are responsible for your actions not the provider you should educated yourself about the Internet and downloading pay the full bill and delete your torrent application and moniter your usage to avoid further excedding the limits.

Two unhelpful posts.

OP, you are right to be outraged, the bill was ridiculous. It should be a basic feature of the service that a limit can be set on the usage.

That said, the charges are obscene and unjustifiable.

Move to a Pay as you go service and you will have a limit.

It's funny, isn't it, how whenever there is a mistake of any kind, it's always the customer that is out of pocket? The phone companies NEVER lose.

adm

I have a question for people defending the practice of O2 in this situation.

Can you call them and tell them 'cut me off completely when I hit 15gb'.
If not why not?
It seems like a simple thing to me.

veXual

Gophur wrote: »

Two unhelpful posts.

OP, you are right to be outraged, the bill was ridiculous. It should be a basic feature of the service that a limit can be set on the usage.

That said, the charges are obscene and unjustifiable.

Move to a Pay as you go service and you will have a limit.

It's funny, isn't it, how whenever there is a mistake of any kind, it's always the customer that is out of pocket? The phone companies NEVER lose.

There is a limit of 15 GB, after you hit this limit you will be charged x amount per GB.

Unfortunately the OP agreed to this when he signed the contract so the charges are not obscene and unjustifiable.

I know the OP was unaware of any torrents running but this is not O2's fault the blame falls at his feet unfortunately.

veXual

adm wrote: »

I have a question for people defending the practice of O2 in this situation.

Can you call them and tell them 'cut me off completely when I hit 15gb'.
If not why not?
It seems like a simple thing to me.

As I've just said the contract states you wil be charged per MB/GB after you exceed the 15GB limit.

I assume you have to be an adult to get a broadband contract so why should O2 feel obliged to hold you by the hand and monitor your usage for you?

O2 will also want to make a profit and they know people will exceed their monthly limit. It's not a malicious practice its simple business really.

jor el

Gophur wrote: »

Two unhelpful posts.

How so? It's a statement of fact. If you have an issue with a post, then report it. Do not question other posters on thread.

Gophur wrote: »

OP, you are right to be outraged, the bill was ridiculous. It should be a basic feature of the service that a limit can be set on the usage.

That said, the charges are obscene and unjustifiable.

Just because you don't understand the charges doesn't mean they can't be justified. Voice traffic on the GSM network is transmit at a rate of 12kbps, and with a typical call package giving 50 minutes for €15 a month, this translates to 4.5Mbytes, or €3.33 per MB. That's a hell of a lot less than the 2c per MB charged on data rates. So, operators make over 150 times more money from voice, than they do from excess data charges. The bundled data costs are even lower again, but as I've already said, these are normally a loss leader.

The relative cost of data on a mobile network is over 100 times greater than for voice. This is why they charge so much for it outside of your data bundle allowance, it's also why the bundle limits are quite low.

The operator simply is not going to let people run away with data usage, as it costs their business to do so.

Gophur wrote: »

Move to a Pay as you go service and you will have a limit.

That's one way, except that the limits are usually smaller for the same price on PAYG. Just watch the usage, like everyone else does. There are tens of thousands of mobile broadband users in Ireland, the majority of whom will never face these charges. Why should anything change for a minority of people that can't be bothered to understand what they're doing?

Gophur wrote: »

It's funny, isn't it, how whenever there is a mistake of any kind, it's always the customer that is out of pocket? The phone companies NEVER lose.

Why shouldn't the customer pay? It was their mistake. If the operator made the mistake then I would expect them to cover the cost. Have you any evidence to back the statement that a mobile operator has never been held accountable for a mistake they made?

adm wrote: »

Can you call them and tell them 'cut me off completely when I hit 15gb'.
If not why not?
It seems like a simple thing to me.

There is an alert system that you can opt in to, or you can just watch your usage with the online usage stats that they update on a daily basis. It's not rocket science.

They tell you what the limit is, and what the penalties are. If you go over that limit then you face the penalties. Claiming ignorance is not good enough, and anyone that goes over the limit deserves to be charged in full for it. As veXual said, these people are adults and must take responsibility for their actions.