Why do prisoners have so many rights?

Son Of A Vidic

NSNO wrote: »

Have you seen the inside of Mountjoy? Pray that neither you or anybody you love ends up there. It's hell.

For whom? The prisoners are either high as kites or pissed on the prison hooch most of the time. So they couldn't give a fúck.

Monty Burnz

NSNO wrote: »

Have you seen the inside of Mountjoy? Pray that neither you or anybody you love ends up there. It's hell.

If it's hell, why do criminals keep volunteering to go in there?

Monty Burnz

The_Minister wrote: »

They **** in a bucket.


They honest to God **** in a bucket.

The reason it doesn't work is that there is no proof that harsh sentences deters crime - FFS we used to hang people for stealing watches, and guess what - people still stole.

There is no evidence that harsh sentencing deters crime, there is evidence that rehabilitation, if properly funded can work in some cases (Norway for instance).

So we have a choice of throwing money at criminals to keep prisoners in comfort or throwing money at criminals because a small percentage of them 'might' be reformed (assuming we can mimic Norway).

How about a cheaper solution? Stick repeat offenders (particularly violent offenders) on an island or islands somewhere off the coast. The prisoners can reform themselves if they see fit.

PAULWATSON

so many rights?

Oh, apart from the fact that they are locked up. Never been in the clink, but I doubt it is "great craic".

Monty Burnz

Mark25 wrote: »

Just imagine what it would be like to be locked up each night at 8 o'clock with nothing to do.

If you don't like it, don't volunteer for it.

Mark25 wrote: »

If you were facing some time inside I guarantee you would be ****ting it.

99% of us are not facing time inside because we respect other people.

ToddyDoody

In response to the op i'm thinking Europe, the UN and fear of controversy on the part of the govt. There may also be an element of nineteen eighty four involved i.e. The govt has to at least seem fair and acceptable to the public to ensure no sympathy's brew for the innmates and that the innmates believe they dont have any case for mistreatment.

SafeSurfer

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

For whom? The prisoners are either high as kites or pissed on the prison hooch most of the time. So they couldn't give a fúck.

Really? Or did you read that in the Daily Mail?

Bag of Poo

PUT THEM DOWN. JUST PUT THEM DOWN.

SafeSurfer

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Why don't we exercise their right to die more often? Especially for the scum who commit serious crimes.

Check out the statistics for deaths in custody, those who are killed in state care and those who exercise their right to die. Alot of these deaths relate to people incarcerated for minor offences.

Johro

Bag of Poo wrote: »

PUT THEM DOWN. JUST PUT THEM DOWN.

Huh? What?

SafeSurfer

Monty Burnz wrote: »

How about a cheaper solution? Stick repeat offenders (particularly violent offenders) on an island or islands somewhere off the coast. The prisoners can reform themselves if they see fit.

Why not just build a colossuem let prisoners fight to the death and use the entrance fees to compenstate victims. The victors in the prisoner fights can then gain freedom to become politicians etc. :rolleyes:

Solnskaya

blah,kill 'em, blah blah, let 'em rot, blah, blah. Up until you end up in there yourself for some sh1te the govt has deemed a "custodial" offence, like not paying a fine cos you had no money, or not paying the tv licence cos you had other stuff , like food, to buy. Or the fact that you were actually insane, but there was no bed in a psychiatric ward, so Mountjoy will do. anyhoo, let the shoite continue....blah blah, hang em, blah blah, feckin hotel, blah, x box...blah.

TheRealSquishy

I don't understand why they're not made work? Surely that's better than doing nothing and it's still keeping them occupied. It's obviously not that simple but I really can't figure out why?

Also, I hate when smileys are used as insults

locked_out

I don't think prisoners have many rights.

7sr2z3fely84g5

Taylor21 wrote: »

I don't understand why they're not made work? Surely that's better than doing nothing and it's still keeping them occupied. It's obviously not that simple but I really can't figure out why?

powerful pub sec unions would oppose them doing council type work,then there's cost of insurance and security.

Arizona chain gang doing clean up work-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1tfIKUZ0fY

Shenshen

tails_naf wrote: »

2k week per prisoner, and you say the majority of this is salaries?
Even if there were 2 prison guards for every 1 prisoner, that would still be a high salary (1k a week each)!!


Surely the ratio of guards to prisoners must be much lower - or overcrowding in prisons would be due to all the flippin guards in the building!!


So whats the breakdown on this? Does salary really make sense to explain away that 2k?


(I know they probably work shifts - but even with 3-8 hour shifts, that still would have 1 guard on 1k salary per week for every 1.5 prisoners - still doesn't add up)

You forget that prison staff doesn't consist exclusively of staff... you've got administration in place for the staff (HR, canteen, etc.), as well as administrative staff for the prisoners, although not quite as many.
A report I found for 2009 lays the ratio of warden to prisoner at 1:11.

But maybe I shouldn't have said "salary" but rather "Overhead"... after all, an employee will cost the employer a lot more than just the salary. There's insurance, building maintenance, heating, electricity... it's a long list.

I don't have the figures to calculate how much the state spends on prison wardens a year, but I would be surprised if the actual figure was less than 1k a week per prisoner.

senordingdong

State spends 70,000 a year per prisoner*. Down from 77,000 last year, and 80 something the year before.

* divided by 52 comes to 1346.15.

Salaries certainly make up some of the costs but you can't generalise since so many are on different rates etc...
But naturally you will find that the prison service is just as bloated with non front-line staff as any other state body.

But there are so many other cost factors to be considered such as the ones already mentioned, food, teachers, workshops, and ofcourse healthcare etc...

Mark25

Taylor21 wrote: »

I don't understand why they're not made work? Surely that's better than doing nothing and it's still keeping them occupied. It's obviously not that simple but I really can't figure out why?

Also, I hate when smileys are used as insults

There are only so many jobs in the prison - cleaning, kitchens - so even if you want to work you mightn't get it. I would definitely preferred to be working to pass the time. Told there used to be some schemes where some prisoners went out during the day to work but that it stopped. The way people are don't think they would want to hear that there are prisoners working in the area. Once people hear prisoner they think murderer, rapist.

aidan24326

mickydoomsux wrote: »

Because we'd rather piss against the wind trying to "rehabilitate" scum rather than punishing them.

Not every single person in jail is 'scum' though. Not every inmate is a psycho murdering rapist, so you can't totally generalise.

charlemont

Mark25 wrote: »

There are only so many jobs in the prison - cleaning, kitchens - so even if you want to work you mightn't get it. I would definitely preferred to be working to pass the time. Told there used to be some schemes where some prisoners went out during the day to work but that it stopped. The way people are don't think they would want to hear that there are prisoners working in the area. Once people hear prisoner they think murderer, rapist.

I used to work in the fabric unit as a cleaner, Basically id sweep twice a day and mop once, Go twice a week to History and Irish class (Got an A in History, Leaving cert when I got out), Go library once or twice a week, As for prisoners having rights, If you do something inside like assault you go down to the "chocky" for a set period of time.

senordingdong

Mark25 wrote: »

Told there used to be some schemes where some prisoners went out during the day to work but that it stopped.

I could be wrong but my understanding was that these schemes were only available to the minimum security prisons.
As for chain gangs etc....I'm sure there is some law protecting the prisoners from such slave like 'exploitation'.