The EU and European identity

dilbert2

Do you think that there is a European identity akin to that of the American identity, where there are regional differences such as the North, South, Midwest etc. but everybody considers themselves Americans, and are governed federally.

Do you think that this is possible in Europe, if not now, maybe in future? Or do you see the European Union as a trading block, and better that way – as opposed to a United States of Europe where there is a European identity and political cohesion such as what one would find in the US?

The_Minister

I am first and foremost Irish, and I love being Irish, but I would also identify, on a secondary basis, as European.


It's like having a load of crazy, far-flung relatives - the French, Germans, Polish etc are my whacky country cousins.

donvito99

I've given up on Europe. That bull**** I was brought up to believe about in Primary school about the EU is now completely lost on me.

We can't get out of it, and its done alot for us, but its increasing powers need to be nipped in the so called bud now.

Turtyturd

College repeat tomorrow?

kincsem

The people in Europe are some of the luckiest in the world. I'm happy to be a moaning European.

Princess Peach

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_oditvlJMs

tonycascarino

I see myself as Irish and that's it.

Mickeroo

Every country is different and has there own unique culture which is great, but I think the differences are mainly bigger between countries here than between statees in the US in general (although not always of course).

I think its funny how a lot of people in Ireland and the UK seem to talk about Europe as if they don't live there sometimes

pragmatic1

Nope. More in common with the Brits and Americans than Europeans. I'd consider myself Irish and thats it.

Earthhorse

dilbert2 wrote: »

Do you think that there is a European identity akin to that of the American identity, where there are regional differences such as the North, South, Midwest etc. but everybody considers themselves Americans, and are governed federally.

Do you think that this is possible in Europe, if not now, maybe in future? Or do you see the European Union as a trading block, and better that way – as opposed to a United States of Europe where there is a European identity and political cohesion such as what one would find in the US?

I don't think it will ever be quite the same but if the EU weathers a few storms such as the banking crisis I definitely think a sense of European identity will strengthen in more of us.

Chips Ahoy

Don't think Russia would be too happy with a united Europe.

mike65

Not sure what the EU has to doing with being European. That's just a thin political construct. Answer is no unless the Ryder Cup is on.

My name is URL

The European identity is one of diversity and coexistence, not one of homogeneous interdependence like is being constructed for us, imo.

Chips Ahoy

they would have some soccer team though.

EuropeanSon

Chips Ahoy wrote: »

they would have some soccer team though.

Just Spain's first 11, with Philip Lahm and Ashley Cole thrown in.

Yugioh

I have to say I'm an extremely proud European. If people say they have nothing in common with other Europeans then I think they're blinded by either their inability of seeing past someone speaking another language or the introversion of their own day to day actions.

Of course Europe is incredibly diverse and isn't some little village like the Americans go on, but I have plenty of things in common with other Europeans despite our differences. To call myself just Irish would be a very close minded approach.

Chips Ahoy

EuropeanSon wrote: »

Just Spain's first 11, with Philip Lahm and Ashley Cole thrown in.

Haha true, ronaldo might make it as well.

EuropeanSon

Chips Ahoy wrote: »

Haha true, ronaldo might make it as well.

Ah yes. I forgot about that ****. Might unbalance the team's morale by being a dickhead, though.

Thomas828

No, I'm a Paddy Irishman first and last. I can't see myself as being a European citizen.

x_Ellie_x

I consider myself Irish and nothing else. I would never call myself European. I don't particularly like the EU. I think it has too much power and I don't want to live in the "United States of Europe".

markesmith

It definitely exists on some level. Things like the Mongols, the pagans of Lithuania, the Vikings (I know, but...), the Yellow Peril, the Red Horde, the Moors, the Ottomans...all these and many more have given the Continent a shared siege mentality on some level.

Whether that affects us Irish is another thing.

But I personally would sooner be more integrated with the Europeans than being caught between the current English-American axis. Just sayin'...

DjFlin

I've found that being Irish in a group of others is fine, but if your Irish in a group of Irish, one will go on about being from, Eg, Kildare, then Leixlip, then the Far End of Leixlip. I've had so many arguments over that kinda stuff that I've honestly given up all hope.

Unless I'm in America that is, they sure do love the paddies. :pac:

D1stant

Nah

Dont believe in classifications like European or even Irish. We are a species

Either you're tuned in and a bit of fun or fuck off. Wherever you're from

Mickeroo

D1stant wrote: »

Nah

Dont believe in classifications like European or even Irish. We are a species

Either you're tuned in and a bit of fun or fuck off. Wherever you're from

Oh right yeah :pac:

Kojak

dilbert2 wrote: »

Do you think that there is a European identity akin to that of the American identity, where there are regional differences such as the North, South, Midwest etc. but everybody considers themselves Americans, and are governed federally.

Do you think that this is possible in Europe, if not now, maybe in future? Or do you see the European Union as a trading block, and better that way – as opposed to a United States of Europe where there is a European identity and political cohesion such as what one would find in the US?

I don't see myself as European, I never have and never will. I am irish and nothing will change that. The EEC was initially set up for trading between Germany and France - it was not designed for a United States of Eurpoe.

joshrogan

EuropeanSon wrote: »

Just Spain's first 11, with Philip Lahm and Ashley Cole thrown in.

Robbie Keane is one of the world's most prolific goalscorers surely he'd be in with a shout. Also Lahm/Cole both play left back IIRC?

hatrickpatrick

I'm Irish, I'm European, I'm from Planet Earth. In that order.

Mickeroo

Kojak wrote: »

I don't see myself as European, I never have and never will. I am irish and nothing will change that. The EEC was initially set up for trading between Germany and France - it was not designed for a United States of Eurpoe.

But we're European regardless of the EEC/EU, it's like an Indian person saying they're not Asian IMO.

Lone Stone

I actually use to think of myself as a European and thought it was some thing to be kind of proud about but now i think its such a huge failure and and giant scam on some global scale. And i dont really see much merit in considering myself irish the country is a joke.

grenache

pragmatic1 wrote: »

Nope. More in common with the Brits and Americans than Europeans. I'd consider myself Irish and thats it.

I'm puzzled as to how you think Irish people could have more in common with Americans than we do with our fellow Europeans, particularly central and southern European nations. From a moral and political perspective we are very similar to the French, German, Belgian, Italian, Portuguese and Spanish. Lets not forget that America has some outlandish right wing movements such as the Tea Party and other christian fundamentalist groups, something that is not commonplace in central/southern Europe. I think most Europeans are liberal thinking, obviously the further north one travels the more liberal it becomes. But in general Europe is united by it's tolerance of different creeds/belief systems/political views and its openness to change. Contrast this to America where its not currently possible to have A Socialist Party as it would be shot down by the dominant right wing element for being "communist". McCarthyism never went away, it still resides in the American psyche.

Yes, we share similar interests in music and media as well as a common language. But for me, that's where the similarities end between us and the Americans. The average American is content to bear arms, as is provided for in the US constitution. The average Irish person would never want to bear arms. Likewise the average French or German.

So in some ways we're similar to America, but from a belief system and political point of view, Ireland is as European as it gets. And long may it continue.

Stinicker

We are white Europeans of a liberal Christian heritage, we share similar beliefs and values, however whilst we share the same things we are closer to Australians, Yanks and Canuks and dare I say the Brits, because of our speaking of the English language. I may think similarly to Fritz in Munich or Carlos in Spain yet however I am much closer to Cledus in Oklahoma or Alf Stewart in Home & Away because of our language and our culture and identity is based around this due to being able to communicate with each other. France may aswell be in Antarctica due to this reason.

grenache

Stinicker wrote: »

We are white Europeans of a liberal Christian heritage, we share similar beliefs and values, however whilst we share the same things we are closer to Australians, Yanks and Canuks and dare I say the Brits, because of our speaking of the English language. I may think similarly to Fritz in Munich or Carlos in Spain yet however I am much closer to Cledus in Oklahoma or Alf Stewart in Home & Away because of our language and our culture and identity is based around this due to being able to communicate with each other. France may aswell be in Antarctica due to this reason.

A common language just means we can communicate easier with other Anglophone countries. It doesn't necessarily mean we are more similar to them however. For instance, you say we share more in common with the average man from Oklahoma than we do with the French - we're a relatively Catholic country, just like France. We like our rugby, just like France. We are mainly liberal in our outlook, again, just like our Gallic neighbours.

Oklahoma is none of those.

OPENROAD

Stinicker wrote: »

We are white Europeans of a liberal Christian heritage, we share similar beliefs and values, however whilst we share the same things we are closer to Australians, Yanks and Canuks and dare I say the Brits, because of our speaking of the English language. I may think similarly to Fritz in Munich or Carlos in Spain yet however I am much closer to Cledus in Oklahoma or Alf Stewart in Home & Away because of our language and our culture and identity is based around this due to being able to communicate with each other. France may aswell be in Antarctica due to this reason.

pawrick

I am Irish, Ireland is in Europe just like Britain is and therefore part of Europe.

Identity...we have had a shared history, sometimes we have been closer to our neighbors sometime less so. There is a European identity but I don't find it to be as strong as national identity. Liking the EU or not doesn't affect this too much as our shared history goes back a lot further then that + not all Europeans are part of the EU but would consider themselves very much European.

grenache

Kojak wrote: »

I don't see myself as European, I never have and never will. I am irish and nothing will change that. The EEC was initially set up for trading between Germany and France - it was not designed for a United States of Eurpoe.

But you need to distinguish between Europe, the continent, and the European Union, the political block. The island of Ireland is geographically part of Europe. Therefore by de facto you are a European, whether you want to be one or not. I think what you're trying to say is you don't wish to be referred to as a citizen of the EU.

PseudoFamous

While I see myself as Irish, I'm just as much Danish, and twice as much European than either. I speak five languages to a decent degree, and have European friends scattered across the continent (who all speak English fluently). I think that we're all European here, regardless of ethnicity, and I don't understand why some people see it as taboo in Ireland.

Kojak

grenache wrote: »

But you need to distinguish between Europe, the continent, and the European Union, the political block. The island of Ireland is geographically part of Europe. Therefore by de facto you are a European, whether you want to be one or not. I think what you're trying to say is you don't wish to be referred to as a citizen of the EU.

Correct, Ireland may be geographically in Europe, and thus I and everyone else would be an inhabitant of the european continent, but I'd never see myself as a citizen of the EU.

If you met someone from the US or Australia (for example) would you say I am from Europe - no you wouldn't, you'd say I'm from Ireland.

charlemont

PseudoFamous wrote: »

While I see myself as Irish, I'm just as much Danish, and twice as much European than either. I speak five languages to a decent degree, and have European friends scattered across the continent (who all speak English fluently). I think that we're all European here, regardless of ethnicity, and I don't understand why some people see it as taboo in Ireland.

Siege mentality, And the rubbish blaming Europe for what the mistakes of the government they themselves voted in.

grenache

Kojak wrote: »

If you met someone from the US or Australia (for example) would you say I am from Europe - no you wouldn't, you'd say I'm from Ireland.

well naturally you would say Ireland, as Europe is not a country. And for the main part we choose to define ourselves by our nationality. Just as a Canadian would say he/she is from Canada and not North America. But that doesn't mean he/she isn't North American by default. Just like we are European for the same reason.

later12

I love how some people think they're being all progressive and sh1t by moving away from Irishness toward a European identity. Take a reality check, the concept of Europe as the motherland is just as dumb, just as segregationist (in fact more dangerously so, because of the size of the union and its overall largely white racial profile) and the idea of being pro European is as daft as being pro Irish or pro British or pro penguin.

Being Irish doesn't help define me. Being European doesn't help define me. These are silly, outdated nationalist and manmade constructs; relics of history and nothing more. We live in a globalised world, not a European world and not an Irish world.

I am in favour of stronger European monetary and fiscal integration, but that's where it ends. I don't want to see myself as 'European' any more than I want to see myself as Irish or British or French or right handed or white, or whatever other random label one might come up with.

Being Irish is an accident of birth. Being European is an accident of birth. These things are not identities to aspire to nor be proud of. We are individuals, not the minions of some mythical, nationalist or pan-nationalist construction.

Funglegunk

Irish when at home, double Irish or European when abroad.

pickarooney

tonycascarino wrote: »

I see myself as Irish and that's it.

Just as long as nobody takes a closer look at your family tree, eh Tony?

c_man

Closer to Boston than Berlin tbh.

SEPT 23 1989

The further "the project" moves forward the more Irish i feel

pajunior

I think there are two dates going on here. One about European identity and one about EU citizenship.
You somewhat get to choose your identity, as a poster above has said he has cast of all national identities because he feels part of a global society. However i don't think this is so easy as the country you grow up in is always going to have a huge effect on you.
As for EU citizenship well if you are an Irish citizen then you are an EU citizen and you have no choice in the matter. You can check your passport.

Also why is everyone blaming the EU for fiscal problems we have brought on ourselves?

conorhal

grenache wrote: »

I'm puzzled as to how you think Irish people could have more in common with Americans than we do with our fellow Europeans, particularly central and southern European nations.

I don't watch a lot of Spanish soap operas, and while I'm a film buff that does watch French and German films, I'd say the bulk of TV and film I watch comes from America and that creates a cultural commonality and familiarity that does not exist for me with many other European nations. I love the British sense of humor for example, it's quite close to the Irish sense of humor and so most of the comedy I watch comes from the UK, have you ever seen Itallian 'comedy' (Jesus, even the Germans are funnier).

grenache wrote: »

From a moral and political perspective we are very similar to the French, German, Belgian, Italian, Portuguese and Spanish. Lets not forget that America has some outlandish right wing movements such as the Tea Party and other christian fundamentalist groups, something that is not commonplace in central/southern Europe. I think most Europeans are liberal thinking, obviously the further north one travels the more liberal it becomes.

You have a strangely homogenious view of the States. I'd say Greece and Poland were just as religously fervent at the Southern states. I think the Irish are pretty politically conservative.

grenache wrote: »

But in general Europe is united by it's tolerance of different creeds/belief systems/political views and its openness to change. Contrast this to America where its not currently possible to have A Socialist Party as it would be shot down by the dominant right wing element for being "communist". McCarthyism never went away, it still resides in the American psyche.

I find America to be a very tolerant place, it's the most harmoniously multicultural place on earth, sure there are problems and nobody could deny them, but given that it's population was created from the migrants of hundreds of different countries, with a vast array of religious and cultural practices, it's a tribute to the brilliance of the US constitution, a document that guarantees freedom of religious practice and expression that accommodates individualism and yet manages to weave all these disparate people into such a cohesive nation.

As for the bunkum about Communism, if you'd fought a few wars with Communist nations and gone to the brink of Nuclear Armageddon with the USSR you might be a little culturally leery of that bankrupt ideology too.

grenache wrote: »

Yes, we share similar interests in music and media as well as a common language. But for me, that's where the similarities end between us and the Americans. The average American is content to bear arms, as is provided for in the US constitution. The average Irish person would never want to bear arms. Likewise the average French or German.

Oh you're one of those people that gets sniffy about the yanks and gun ownership. You clearly know feck all about our European friends, Ireland because if it's history with paramilitaries is a bit of an abboration, gun ownership his actually pretty common on the continent in quite a few countries, and most of those uber liberal Nordic countries you're so find of are armed to the teeth. I guess it's a product of the same fronteerism that fosterd popular gun ownership in the US.

grenache wrote: »

So in some ways we're similar to America, but from a belief system and political point of view, Ireland is as European as it gets. And long may it continue.

Closer to Boston then Berlin in my opinion, I think the Irish share that American averice and individualism. Don't get me wrong,I like my European neighbors, but I also figure that good fences make good neighbors.

mickthemick

Our EU dictators like Herman Van Rompuy and Barroso want there to be a European Identity. I like been Irish.

Namlub

A lot of people don't know the difference between Europe and the EU...

Cork boy 55

I voted NO in the poll , But upon reflection have changed my mind and would now like to vote YES.

fontanalis

mickthemick wrote: »

Our EU dictators like Herman Van Rompuy and Barroso want there to be a European Identity. I like been Irish.

Hopefully those dictators get removed at their respective countries next election.
You can have an irish and european identity, besides irish identity will be lost because of irish people, no one else.
Where did they say they wanted a european identity to replace others?

Eve_Dublin

Europe and EU...2 different things people!! :rolleyes:

I'm European. I live in Spain, I speak Spanish, travelled around Europe and I feel more of a connection to this continent than I ever felt during all the time I spent in the US. I don't get a hell of a lot about America, mainly their lack of desire for a socialist system and their religious fanaticism, their food and their mindset (the individualistic thinking and their obsession with careerism, for example). Don't get me wrong, I like America and it's people, it's just foreign to me. I feel like I'm in a very foreign country when I'm there bar the language. I don't feel like that when I travel round Europe.