Green Reading Techniques?

Opics

I'm curious to know what green reading techniques fellow boards.ie users have? I have always had a problem getting the correct line, especially on putts from around 10 feet.

I'm basically looking for suggestions that I can try to help improve my stuttering putting

Apologies if there's a thread like this already, I didn't spot it.

PRAF

I usually try to get a sense of the green when I'm walking up to it from the fairway (or the rough most days!). I'll then mark my ball and try to gauge the line from behind the ball. Then I'll have a quick look at the putt from the low side. That's about it. I'll have my line picked by then.

My problem is mostly speed control - if I roll a longish putt too far past then I'll usually get too cautious & leave the rest of my putts short.

Kace

My most favoured option for putts of this length is to read the line from behind the ball and then while you're down there select a specific small mark 3-4 feet away. I then make sure that I am aligned to putt directly over this - no matter if it looks wrong when you're actually standing over the ball.

You need to be really specific though, don't choose a 3-4 inch mark, choose a tiny mark. This one really helps me to select (and stick to) the right line.

mags1962

All putts are straight in essence and the only way you can improve is practice and experience in order to judge the amount of break/curve left or right and the speed/how hard to hit it.
Was once also given some advice from a guru that stats prove that most three putts were caused by poor pace, the first putt either too hard or soft so practice this with your eyes closed to develop the feel for different distances.
Always always line up straight and pick a spot on that straight line, judge the pace and pull the trigger.
Remember also the harder you hit it on a certain line the straighter it will stay and is some peoples preferred method on shortish putts, taking the break out.

fatherbuzcagney

For long putts i imagine i see the line it will make on green as it rolls to the hole. i try not to think of pace as i try to let that happen automatically. For shorter putts i try to pick straightest line and putt it solid and keep the breaks to a minimum.

Opics

Thanks for the replies everyone, but I would like to point out that I have no problems hitting the ball on the line I want and generally at the right pace. It's the actual reading of the green that gets me.

I have kept stats for the year, and i average 32.5 putts a round and 2.01 putts per GIR (which is very poor). I also 3 putt 10.2% of the time.

Nerdstrom

Opics wrote: »

I would like to point out that I have no problems hitting the ball on the line I want and generally at the right pace.

Is that you mr Stricker?

Boards.ie has obviously expanded to an ameriacan audience, congrats lads

:cool:

Opics

Nerdstrom wrote: »

Is that you mr Stricker?

Boards.ie has obviously expanded to an ameriacan audience, congrats lads

:cool:

Did Steve Stricker say that in an interview or something?

All I'm saying is that my problem isn't the stroke/set up, it's the actual reading of the putt.

mags1962

Have you ever seen the pro's before a round? They practice hitting along a straight line and getting a feel for the speed of the greens.
The amount of break is dependant on the speed the ball is travelling. Are all your missed 1st putts across slopes and the straight ones pushed or pulled or curving too much or too little. It's about speed/pace and if you don't think so well then I don't think you want help as nobody can tell you how much break is on any putt as it depends on how you hit it, slow,hard,firm, soft etc.

Nerdstrom

Not sure if he did or not

But at the moment he is the only golfer in the world who consistently hits it on line with the right pace...........

Thats how i know its you steve

Opics

mags1962 wrote: »

Have you ever seen the pro's before a round? They practice hitting along a straight line and getting a feel for the speed of the greens.
The amount of break is dependant on the speed the ball is travelling. Are all your missed 1st putts across slopes and the straight ones pushed or pulled or curving too much or too little. It's about speed/pace and if you don't think so well then I don't think you want help as nobody can tell you how much break is on any putt as it depends on how you hit it, slow,hard,firm, soft etc.

But that's not my problem. My problem is reading them. Actually looking at the green and going "Oh yes, 4 inches outside the left". My speed isn't the problem, it's the reading of the putt. They are 2 separate things.

nocal

Opics wrote: »

But that's not my problem. My problem is reading them. Actually looking at the green and going "Oh yes, 4 inches outside the left". My speed isn't the problem, it's the reading of the putt. They are 2 separate things.

How are you 3 putting 10% of the time if your speed is not a problem???

mags1962

Ok, I will try to draw you a picture;
15 footer across a 15 degree slope in Augusta, which is more important speed or line? Before you answer think of the same putt at your local course, will it have the same amount of break if you hit it at the same pace on the same line.
The answer is NO, why? because both putts are of a different speed.

This is my last try.

cackhanded

Opics wrote: »

But that's not my problem. My problem is reading them. Actually looking at the green and going "Oh yes, 4 inches outside the left". My speed isn't the problem, it's the reading of the putt. They are 2 separate things.

Perhaps a trip to the opticians might be the best answer.

Opics

mags1962 wrote: »

Ok, I will try to draw you a picture;
15 footer across a 15 degree slope in Augusta, which is more important speed or line? Before you answer think of the same putt at your local course, will it have the same amount of break if you hit it at the same pace on the same line.
The answer is NO, why? because both putts are of a different speed.

This is my last try.

Perhaps you should read my posts again.

I'm on about reading putts. Not hitting the correct speed to meet the line I have read. I know that different speed greens results in more/less break. I repeat.. This Is Not My Problem.

My original question was how do fellow board.ie members read greens. I was not asking does speed affect line, because that is obvious.

Opics

nocal wrote: »

How are you 3 putting 10% of the time if your speed is not a problem???

Speed isn't my main problem. I'm usually good with my speed. 10% means 1-2 3 putts a round. It's not like I'm constantly doing it.

Getting the line wrong on a 50 foot putt can result in missing the hole by a fair bit. Enough to miss the next putt. It's not uncommon for an amateur to 3 putt every 10 holes or so, so it's not a terrible stat.

Opics

cackhanded wrote: »

Perhaps a trip to the opticians might be the best answer.

Thank you. Best response in this thread so far (due to it being the only one that actually responds to the problem I actually have). Perhaps I should get that laser eye surgery Harrington got from that ad...oh wait :P

mags1962

It is so so true that the 6" or so between the ears are the most important in golf. THE AMOUNT OF BREAK DEPENDS ON THE SPEED.

nocal

1) look at the green and the lie of the land as you approach it.
2) look at the putt from the low side - very important.
3) look at the putt from behind the ball and look closely at the last 30% of it.
4) pick your line and commit to it.

Steps 3 and 4 should only take 4-5 seconds maximum - you have to trust your instinct as opposed to rationalising the line. If I get confused during this part I look again.

The only "science" that I apply is that downhill putts break a little more than uphill putts so I'll allow a little more break for these.

Sometimes after a round I think that my ability to read the line of a putt has let me down badly but in the last month have learned that is probably my putting stroke that really lets me down.

So OP - how do you currently read the line?

Opics

mags1962 wrote: »

It is so so true that the 6" or so between the ears are the most important in golf. THE AMOUNT OF BREAK DEPENDS ON THE SPEED.

I know it does.

And like I have said, that isn't my problem. Try not to insult my intelligence, please. I'm not the one posting obvious things in a thread. You're yet to write a post in this thread that is actually about my original question, yet then you proceed to question the " 6" between my ears " when I tell you this.

Opics

nocal wrote: »

So OP - how do you currently read the line?

I basically do what you posted. Perhaps my legs aren't the same length meaning I'm sideways myself

nocal

Opics wrote: »

I basically do what you posted. Perhaps my legs aren't the same length meaning I'm sideways myself

Damn -I had not considered that myself. Now I have to go off and measure my legs!!! Anyone got a measuring tape???

mags1962

I will respectfully decline to answer or post on your "problem" and leave you to your own devices to figure out your next putt and if it is 6" or 12".
Best of Luck.

Opics

mags1962 wrote: »

I will respectfully decline to answer or post on your "problem" and leave you to your own devices to figure out your next putt and if it is 6" or 12".
Best of Luck.

I'm glad you came to your senses and realised you weren't making any sense. Good luck to you too.

nocal

There is actually one other thing that I do - when behind the ball I hold the putter in one hand and line the shaft up to hide the ball (or most of it). Then I look at the spot beside the hole that the shaft is lined up against. For a 10 foot putt my line is just inside that or just outside it depending on the slope and what else I have seen.

I honestly believe that the above exercise is actually useless from a scientific point of view but I think it taps into my "subconscious" reading of the line. Sometimes it gives me a point on the opposite side of the hole to what I expected and that is when I back off and look at it again.

sinabhfuil

Right. I don't know if this will be of any help to you but here goes.
I look at my line from the side when walking onto the green and I know from that if it's a downhill or uphill putt.
I then look at my line from behind the ball. Usually, if I am waiting on someone else to putt first, I take a quick look at the line from behind the hole.
From behind the ball I have a look along the line, looking for small bumps or slight slopes that might send the ball to the left or right along on route to the hole. For example if I see a slight break, first to the left and another one to the right (depends on severity) then I know that it might be close to a straight putt.
I will always look at the hole itself and see if one side of the hole is higher that the other. This will tell you which side the ball will break to when it gets to near the hole.
Don't know if this is any help to ya but I can say it works well enough for me as putting would be one of the strongest parts of my game. Give me a ten-fifteen footer any day!

Opics

nocal wrote: »

There is actually one other thing that I do - when behind the ball I hold the putter in one hand and line the shaft up to hide the ball (or most of it). Then I look at the spot beside the hole that the shaft is lined up against. For a 10 foot putt my line is just inside that or just outside it depending on the slope and what else I have seen.

I honestly believe that the above exercise is actually useless from a scientific point of view but I think it taps into my "subconscious" reading of the line. Sometimes it gives me a point on the opposite side of the hole to what I expected and that is when I back off and look at it again.

You talking about Plum bobbing? I've also experimented with that. It's something I started trying recently. It appears to be great for getting a general idea of the line...unless it's windy (The putter blows off in the wind so it's not going straight down with gravity)

nocal

Opics wrote: »

You talking about Plum bobbing? I've also experimented with that. It's something I started trying recently. It appears to be great for getting a general idea of the line...unless it's windy (The putter blows off in the wind so it's not going straight down with gravity)

Yup - then I re-adjust the line slightly based on whether it is uphill or downhill.
The wind makes it a nightmare but then when the wind is that strong putting itself is a nightmare.
I do not use it as a be all and end all but if it re-asserts what I am already thinking then it gives me confidence to go for it.

I would love also love to hear what other techniques, tricks, tips and confidence boosters other people use to line up their putts.

Webbs

I think we can also way over analyse our putts.
If I head out to the practice green throw down a few balls from 15-25 feet and just concentrate on a good stroke and make a guess at the line just standing over the ball I am never that far away.
Yet when I faff around on the green too much you can guarantee I wont get it in.
I think its more about getting a pure strike, you just know when you have hit a good smooth strike that it is heading into the cup

Miley Byrne

I had a habit of reading too much into putts. Like I was looking for a break that wasn't there. So now if I have a 10 footer and I'm not sure if there is a break, then i decide to play it as a straight putt. I pick a spot about halfway between the ball and the hole in a straight line and try to roll the ball over that spot. If it breaks and misses the hole I don't worry about it as long as I hit it on the line that I wanted.

When I'm approaching the green I'll look at the green and try to pick out the highest & lowest point. This should give you an instant idea of which way your putt should break. Try not to change your mind. Your first impression is very often right.

Don't know if this will help you OP.

Par72

Hi Opics. My advice for what it's worth is to get out on your practice green - hopefully it's not a flat practice green and you can find some putts like the ones you have difficulty reading - and practice hitting putts from different angles whilst looking at the hole. Look at the hole and not the ball when you are putting, watch how the ball breaks after you hit it. You can just hit the putts straight at the hole, or where you think they will break, but by watching the putt and not keeping your head down you will start to get a feel for how putts are breaking, you will probably find you will get a much better feel for the pace of putts too by looking at the hole. I actually hit most of my long putts on the course by looking at the hole now, I have found it has made a big difference.

A tip for reading the breaks better is to imagine pouring a jug of water on to the green in the area around the hole. Look at the green and imagine what way the water would drain off and this will tell you where the break is.

kagni

Maybe this might help (it's a fairly simple idea explained in a convoluted way!) - http://puttingzone.com/MyTips/zbl.html

Some of his videos here also -
part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlLWLSLtlzw
part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87fEEHw7MjY
part 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQKDJlD4yZY
part 4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAmI-fUMmrE
part 5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTOEZpPRmWU

k.p.h

Noooooooo kagni !!!!!!! Don't be showing people that type of stuff :eek: ..! If the actual scientific methods for reading greens ever became popular we could end up starting to have 6hr rounds and people with calculators in their bags :rolleyes:

It is absolutely spot on though. it's pretty much the exact same as the AimPoint green reading that dose be mentioned on other sites. The Aimpoint lads are the ones who put the lines on the screen to show a putt before the putt is taken on the PGA coverage. The model the greens so have the exact slope and stimp of the greens though. But it just shows you that if you get your input variables right it would actually work.

The thing is .. if you get one of you inputs wrong you just end up with a close putt that didn't go in pretty much the same as if you didn't employ the technique.

I put it in the same bracket as Plum bobbing to be honest. It's a great addition to a putting game if you employ the techniques properly but there are just too many variables for it to be the thing you build your putting game around. You will never get past feel being the most important factor IMO, you build up a memory bank of information through practice and experience and then you let your "conscious or subconscious" memory help you make decisions when you are on the green.

Although you sound like you are a decent enough putter Opics so maybe you should give it a look, it might add the 5% that gets you over the edge and see a few more dropping.

Here is a list of Pros that use the AimPoint method.

PGA TOUR
Padraig Harrington
Hunter Haas
Jim Gallagher, Jr.
Scott Gutschewski
Jamie Lovemark
Scott McCarron
D.A. Points
Dennis Paulson
Scott Piercy
Justin Rose
Henrik Stenson
Bo Van Pelt
Grant Waite
Charlie Wi

PRAF

Opics wrote: »

Speed isn't my main problem. I'm usually good with my speed. 10% means 1-2 3 putts a round. It's not like I'm constantly doing it.

Getting the line wrong on a 50 foot putt can result in missing the hole by a fair bit. Enough to miss the next putt. It's not uncommon for an amateur to 3 putt every 10 holes or so, so it's not a terrible stat.

Opics - where are you missing? Are you long or short, low or high side? Is there any particular pattern? Most pro's and amateurs tend to miss on the low side. On a downhill slider, that could spell disaster (and lead to 3 putts). Something you might try on the practice ground is to just play a little bit more break then your initial read is telling you.

It's a good idea to keep some basic stats on what your 'miss pattern' is - high / low, short / long. At least then, you'll have a better feel for what the problem is

lemeister

mags1962 wrote: »

Ok, I will try to draw you a picture;
15 footer across a 15 degree slope in Augusta, which is more important speed or line? Before you answer think of the same putt at your local course, will it have the same amount of break if you hit it at the same pace on the same line.
The answer is NO, why? because both putts are of a different speed.

This is my last try.

Surely what the OP is asking is what factors influence your decision that the putt in Augusta is going to be different than your local green, not how to actually execute it.

k.p.h

lemeister wrote: »

Surely what the OP is asking is what factors influence your decision that the putt in Augusta is going to be different than your local green, not how to actually execute it.

I think their was bit of disagreement their between mags and opics, which is probably best left alone .

Opics considers his speed to be good which in a sense is probably true e.g the ball rolls 18 inches past the hole or whatever he intends it to be.

Mags was just pointing out that speed and line are intrinsically linked. Which in its own right is true also.

It's just the way you interpret "speed" or what perspective you look at it. e.g go's the right distance or on the other hand matches the intended line and go's in the hole.
:pac::pac::pac:

Russman

Lots of good suggestions, but
Op, I don't want to insult you, but really, there isn't a "technique" as such for reading greens IMO, you look at the slope of the surface you're putting across and decide how much break to play - its that simple. I'm not trying to be smart assed or anything by saying that, but perhaps you're reading too much into putting, if you excuse the pun ! Personally I look from behind the ball, towards the hole, i find that easier than from the hole towards the ball (plus its quicker).
You have to trust your eyes and what they see. If you're wrong (as we all are from time to time), then you're wrong, all you can do is see a line, commit to it and hit the putt on that line. There's no way to check beforehand if its the correct line.

Opics

Cubenio wrote: »

Great thread guys

To me it seems like speed may be the OP problem - Work on your speed

C

Not it is not. I have stated that already. Could you please stop following my posts and posting things to obviously get me worked up. I've done nothing to you and you appear to have an inferiority complex since you have called me condescending and a know it all more than once over the last 2 days.



Thanks to everyone else for your suggestions. I'm going to go for an eye test soon just to see is everything ok in that sense. I've worked hard on my game and I just need a bit of extra work to get myself to the holy grail of scratch. It's the green reading that has left me down.


And if one more person comes here telling me it's my speed I'm going to request that this thread is closed by a mod before I lose my mind :pac:

:P

AldilaMan

Should your username not be OpTics

chalkie 501

I feel your pain Opics:(
I've been following this thread hoping someone would give you the advise you need as i also have a problem reading greens.....obviously i cant help,sorry!
although you could work on the speed(only joking:D)

Tones69

A lot of the time you would have the amount of break perfect, but what ur head says and what the putter says can be diff somtimes, you can strike it too hard which takes a 6inch break to a 2inch break and it flies high, next hole then u strike it soft so it falls lowside, its all about practice practice practice and knowing the pace of the greens.

For me personally, i get down about 2-3M behind the ball to see the line, make up my mind, no practise stroke, just step up, pick a line and strike it accordingly

Claude Harmon

You could hire a caddy to read them for you. If you have the speed perfect, which you do by all accounts, you'll be away. Down to scratch in no time.

jmorrisey

weird, was just gonna put up a similar topic as this (was having huge problems with my putting too) and found this thread.. As much i may sound like a broken record to the OP, the biggest problem ive had is getting both speed and line correct at the same time...ive tried loosening my grip, putting with my eyes closed and putting while looking at the hole and my line reading has improved immeasurably but my speed continues to remain the biggest issue i have. I know the OP is a bit sensitive about his/her issue not being speed, but i can honestly say if he/she gets the speed of the putts right thats going to be the most important thing....best of luck anyway

Russman

Op,
What exactly are you doing wrong on the green then ? You want to improve your reading of greens, but whats your pattern at the moment ? Are you, say, seeing a putt left and it should be right, or are you seeing, say, a 6 inch break when it should be 12 inches ?

Now, don't go off on one, but if its the latter then, like it or not, that is directly correlated to the speed of a putt. One person sees a putt as 6 inches outside the left, but thats at the pace they hit it at, not necessarily the pace another person hits it at. There is no exact science to putting or to golf, much as we'd like there to be.

From whats been said, it sounds like a few hours on the putting green with various types of putt is the best solution.

Why not try just walking up to a putt and hitting it on the line that you first see when you're walking onto the green ? More often than not thats the correct one. To paraphrase Bob Rotella, most kids are instinctively good putters and rarely look at line, its only when adults tell them that putting is hard that they begin to lose it.
Buy Rotella's book, either Putting out of your Mind, or Golf is not a game of perfect, thats my advice.

Opics

I'm doing things like aiming a 10 foot putt on the left lip only to see it break slightly left and missing by about 3 inches. Things like that have nothing to do with speed. It's the simple reading of the putt.

To be honest, I think I should just stop posting until that Cubenio fella is dealt with because he's just going to hound everything I say like he has done for the last 2 days.

staker

Russman wrote: »

Op,

Buy Rotella's book, either Putting out of your Mind, or Golf is not a game of perfect, thats my advice.

Best bit I got out of the Game of Perfect was the tip to putt from the middle of the green to the fringe and try to feel the speed of the greens on the practice green.

OP, I normally approach a putt from off the green having looked at it down and across the line. I'll walk a long putt just to see are there any unseen drops/rises in contours,take a look with the ball still untouched and try gauge a line. I'll mark the ball,clean it,line it up with the marker line on the ball so that all I have to do is concentrate on squaring the clubface with that line in the stroke. Once I'm over it,2 swings to judge weight,step in and hit the ball focusing on the marker line.
Hope this makes sense..

staker

Opics wrote: »

I'm doing things like aiming a 10 foot putt on the left lip only to see it break slightly left and missing by about 3 inches. Things like that have nothing to do with speed. It's the simple reading of the putt.

To be honest, I think I should just stop posting until that Cubenio fella is dealt with because he's just going to hound everything I say like he has done for the last 2 days.

If it's breaking at the hole,then maybe it is speed-try imagining another hole 6-8 inches beyond the hole and playing those last few inches out of the putt,if you know what I'm getting at...

Opics

I apologise for my language and thank everyone that have actually tried to give some advice. This thread has truly been an experience for me that I would rather forget

nocal

Opics wrote: »

I'm doing things like aiming a 10 foot putt on the left lip only to see it break slightly left and missing by about 3 inches. Things like that have nothing to do with speed. It's the simple reading of the putt.

In the hope that the mods clean up this thread.....(as I also think it is a very useful and worthwhile thread)

Do you go back and look at this putt and try to work out where you mis-read it? (I know you are only using it as an example).

There are putts on my home course that look like they break 2-3 inches but they are either dead straight or the break only takes effect during the last 2-3 inches of the putt. I've even been in a position where I have knocked such a putt in and an opponent inside me has then gone on to misread it and miss the putt. All the old timers in my club know this putt is dead straight but I'd put money on a pro mis-reading it. Next time that I have it and I am confirming to myself that it is in fact dead straight I will try some of the other techniques mentioned here to see if they help me ascertain that it is dead straight.

0161allin

Funny Thread this, never realised putting was such a touchy subject..

This might be hard to explain but here goes:
Opics, what i try to do is when looking at the hole from behind the ball is to find i what i believe to be the apex of the putt on say a 10 12 foot putt and see where i believe the ball should break down to the whole and hit it to that point of the apex and let it break from there down to the hole.
So if you see the apex to be about 6ft in front of you, you need to hit to that point with of course the right amount of ***** and imagine the ball turning down from there,might not make a lot of sense but what you see as a 2inch break will prob be a lot more if you drew a straight line from where your putter is past the whole it would measure a lot more.

watch this from Mickelson it might help if it does not work PM me and i'll email it to you..

http://xtshare.com/ttoshare.php?Id=40866

Others mind find it interesting too !! Its a brilliant video put he starts with the putting !! Stroke and the as the OP was looking for allignment !!

GreeBo

12 posts of rubbish deleted, multiple infractions and bans handed out
Seriously guys, grow up. Report a post and then leave it to the mods please.
OP practice is all you can do. Get a consistent stroke, then your distance control will improve and you will then be able to judge the break better IMO