Drainage Pipes ( Connacht agri ones)

polod

fellow farmers just woundering have any of ye used the new connacht agri drainage pipe ? http://www.connachtagri.ie/index.php?p=12 would they be any good for low lying wet land ? ...i presume they would be a lot cheaper that the traditional method of stones and pipes. any ideas on what the pipes costs too ? or would i be aswell to keep the money and go back to the old school method ?

johnboy6930

i guess they would work if there was a place for the water to go when it leaves the pipes?? . but never seen them used.the pipes are 2.80 per meter for a 3 inch pipe

Figerty

I have been intending to use these on Peat/boggy ground. I don't use them on Clay/mud base soils.

I have a few acres where there old stone drains, but have collapsed over time or with the heavy tractors and vibration. I think I will experiment with these on a small area.

I tried the 'pea' gravel on similar ground 10 years ago. The black earth has made it's way through the pores between the stones and into the pipe.

I don't intending doing the same thing again so will try the Connaught pipe.

There is no easy solution!

Good loser

Bit pricey and tricky to lay.

I used terram last year over stones 12" deep - plus 80 mm pipe in main drains only.

Maybe in peat terram under the pipe and over the stones?

manjou

Tried connaght agri pipes hard to lay and very easy to break. this year got 80mm pipe and wrapped it in geotextile stuff used to stop weeds under garden pepples in woodies.Used silage tape every metre to hold it together.put in bottom of shore as it was being dug and then just back filled shore.cost 1 euro a metre and working.

polod

cheers lads they are not expensive so but at 30 euro odd for a 10 metre pipe they might be worth try

reilig

manjou wrote: »

Tried connaght agri pipes hard to lay and very easy to break. this year got 80mm pipe and wrapped it in geotextile stuff used to stop weeds under garden pepples in woodies.Used silage tape every metre to hold it together.put in bottom of shore as it was being dug and then just back filled shore.cost 1 euro a metre and working.

hi manjou,

Just a few quick questions. I'm planning on doing some drainage with the Connacht Agri pipes myself in the next few weeks. I'm just wondering how you find them easy to break? From what I saw of the pipes, they are reasonably flexible and shouldn't really break with normal handling?

Also, on your own desigh of the geotextile cover on ordinary pipe, what type of pipe did you use? Size etc. I have prices ordinary drainage pipe (4 inch) and it alone costs over €1 per meter and woodies geotextile cover comes in at 40c per meter. I'd be also weary of the cheap geotextile covers from these hardwares. They are not made for burying beneath the soil in water logged ground and there is a good chance that they will rot in a short period of time and your pipes will fill with mud.

Contractor around here charges €4 per meter for drainage. This includes supplying the pipe and the stone and all the digging and finishing. At €2.80 per meter, and a 13 ton machine for 2 days, I plan on doing 1000m of drainage. This will cost me ~ €3600. It is bogland and I would have poor access for lorries with stone or for stoning carts to it. Juggle that with teh fact that ordinary drains will only work for a few years, and the Connacht Agri pipe is a definite option for me.

pakalasa

Just an idea, but .... what about using the yellow drainage pipes wrapped in the geotextile and then surrounding that with say 6" of sand top, bottom and both sides. The peat (black mud) shouldnt be able to get through the sand. The sand in turn shouldn't be able to get through the geotextile.

Tora Bora

pakalasa wrote: »

Just an idea, but .... what about using the yellow drainage pipes wrapped in the geotextile and then surrounding that with say 6" of sand top, bottom and both sides. The peat (black mud) shouldnt be able to get through the sand. The sand in turn shouldn't be able to get through the geotextile.

You know what the "old people", used to say about sand! No matter what you do with it and no matter where you put it, it always goes back to where it came from. The sea!

manjou

reilig wrote: »

hi manjou,

Just a few quick questions. I'm planning on doing some drainage with the Connacht Agri pipes myself in the next few weeks. I'm just wondering how you find them easy to break? From what I saw of the pipes, they are reasonably flexible and shouldn't really break with normal handling?

Also, on your own desigh of the geotextile cover on ordinary pipe, what type of pipe did you use? Size etc. I have prices ordinary drainage pipe (4 inch) and it alone costs over €1 per meter and woodies geotextile cover comes in at 40c per meter. I'd be also weary of the cheap geotextile covers from these hardwares. They are not made for burying beneath the soil in water logged ground and there is a good chance that they will rot in a short period of time and your pipes will fill with mud.

Contractor around here charges €4 per meter for drainage. This includes supplying the pipe and the stone and all the digging and finishing. At €2.80 per meter, and a 13 ton machine for 2 days, I plan on doing 1000m of drainage. This will cost me ~ €3600. It is bogland and I would have poor access for lorries with stone or for stoning carts to it. Juggle that with teh fact that ordinary drains will only work for a few years, and the Connacht Agri pipe is a definite option for me.

Ordinary black 80mm land drainage pipe 69 for 100m.Same problem as you bringing in stone so tried this will get better quality geotextile next time.the conaghtagri pipe lifted them in middle when putting them in on my own and some broke needed 2 people.just have to be more carefull when handling them

Good loser

reilig wrote: »

hi manjou,

Just a few quick questions. I'm planning on doing some drainage with the Connacht Agri pipes myself in the next few weeks. I'm just wondering how you find them easy to break? From what I saw of the pipes, they are reasonably flexible and shouldn't really break with normal handling?

Also, on your own desigh of the geotextile cover on ordinary pipe, what type of pipe did you use? Size etc. I have prices ordinary drainage pipe (4 inch) and it alone costs over €1 per meter and woodies geotextile cover comes in at 40c per meter. I'd be also weary of the cheap geotextile covers from these hardwares. They are not made for burying beneath the soil in water logged ground and there is a good chance that they will rot in a short period of time and your pipes will fill with mud.

Contractor around here charges €4 per meter for drainage. This includes supplying the pipe and the stone and all the digging and finishing. At €2.80 per meter, and a 13 ton machine for 2 days, I plan on doing 1000m of drainage. This will cost me ~ €3600. It is bogland and I would have poor access for lorries with stone or for stoning carts to it. Juggle that with teh fact that ordinary drains will only work for a few years, and the Connacht Agri pipe is a definite option for me.

Hi Reilig

Doubt if the geotextile (is that terram?) would rot. Isn't drainage the kind of job its made for?

We brought stone from hard stand with a loader carrying about three/four tons per bucket; this did about 20 metres in about five spills. Pipes only in main drains. Covered stones with terram about 0.4 m wide; pulled some earth over by hand to stop from blowing away. The loader could push soil back over drains to get perpendiular at joints if time to spare or else digger did it. Quick especially in dry weather.

leg wax

those connacht agri pipes will be a disaster in years to come when that membrain blocks its doing the same job as a filter in your tractor and what happens when we dont change the filter, trouble. i dont know what the answer is for draining peaty soil.

Tora Bora

leg wax wrote: »

i dont know what the answer is for draining peaty soil.

The sita spruce.:D

Figerty

It's a question of how long you can get the drainage for. There are stone drains down in the land I have for hundreds of year. Heavy Tractors are destroying these.

The geotextile is a filter, it should outlast stone drains with perforarted pipe.. How long is the questions.

The french and others have been using these for years, The tractor filter idea is similar, but the idea of the geotexitile is that the smaller particles can't travel through, weather this will stop the pipes clogging is up for debate.

I did it the other way, with Pea gravel and yellow pipe ten years ago. I'm not going to do that again as they are blocked. I think the geotextile is worth a shot.

My old man said is predecessors always said stone never stopped water which is why closed drains were made the way they were.

leg wax wrote: »

those connacht agri pipes will be a disaster in years to come when that membrain blocks its doing the same job as a filter in your tractor and what happens when we dont change the filter, trouble. i dont know what the answer is for draining peaty soil.

johngalway

Figerty wrote: »

the idea of the geotexitile is that the smaller particles can't travel through, weather this will stop the pipes clogging is up for debate.

Would the fine material eventually just accumulate around the filter material and stop the water entirely I wonder?

Considered pipes for a while, but to be honest I am just sticking with what is the practice here, open drains, nothing to block then then. Doesn't suit all though and come with their own problems.

Figerty

Would the fine material eventually just accumulate around the filter material and stop the water entirely I wonder?
I dont know, I suppose you would have to examine the type of soil, if the finest particles cant travel through the membrane, the question is..(als CSI MIAMI....) will they block the membrane or will they just sit there and let the water through? Time will tell.

In some ways it will depend on the soil. Peat soils have a lot of organic compounds that can rot down, other soil are pretty stable and the particles don't move through them..
Peaty or soils with organic materials are the problem for me.

Open drains are the way to go where possible, but I need to close up some old drains on smal field to make a decent field for silage cutting etc. Other small drains are need to make wet ground travelable and safe for cattle, even though there is an open drain five feet away.

pakalasa

Figerty wrote: »

....Open drains are the way to go where possible, but I need to close up some old drains on smal field to make a decent field for silage cutting etc.....

Just a word of caution on this. I've seen a lot of local guys near me do this over the years. They covered in trenches (open drains) only to find they had to open them again, as the field got too wet. The original drains were put there for a reason.

countryjimbo

Figerty wrote: »

I did it the other way, with Pea gravel and yellow pipe ten years ago. I'm not going to do that again as they are blocked. I think the geotextile is worth a shot.

My old man said is predecessors always said stone never stopped water which is why closed drains were made the way they were.

Is 10 years the expected lifetime of the pipe & pea gravel? Seems very short. I would have expected that even with the pipe blocked the stones would continue draining away the water.

Figerty

I did drains ten years ago,,maybe less than 15 and they are pretty ineffective. We did make the mistake of taking the bad advice of capping off the drains with earth. I had to remove it this summer. Speaking to drainage expert, he was amazed with the amount of people who put down 4 inch limestone, apart from the reaction with the water, the pores are too large and will quickly fill with dirt.

The problem for me on peating/ black earth is that heavy tractors, particulary slurry spreading tends to vibrate the ground and it when digging through the pea gravel the soil has move through the pores in the gravel; While there will always be some soakage, the effectiveness of the drains is only a fraction of what it should be. This is why I am putting down some geotextile.

Open drains are best, but where I am doing I really have no choice... I'm not fond of spending money where an open drain would be better!

pakalasa

I think the reason a lot of guys put in 3" or 4" clean limestone is that the drainage contractors convince them it's the right thing to do. Cheap materials make their quotes seem very reasonable.

What amazes me is how affective the old flagstone drains are. I've came across a few of them recently. Simple, just stones on both sides, with one on top as a cap. Like this;
___
[...]

The flow of water keeps the bottom clear. They're there 100's of years and still working.

Figerty

Yeah, I have those drains as well. One patch of ground went boggy lately, it was one of these drains that collapsed.

Round west clare there seem to be two types. One as you described. the other has a flag base, one at an angles set against and upright forming a triangle. Strong and effective if set deep.

/|

reilig

Figerty wrote: »

Yeah, I have those drains as well. One patch of ground went boggy lately, it was one of these drains that collapsed.

Round west clare there seem to be two types. One as you described. the other has a flag base, one at an angles set against and upright forming a triangle. Strong and effective if set deep.

/|

We have some like that around here too. But we have a inherent lack of stone in this part of the country, so this limited the amount of drains. One only has to drive through any part of Clare to see the abundance of quality flagstones suitable for this purpose!!

ch750536

Just about to buy some of these for the yard out the back (not farming I know but the search threw out this thread).
Getting mine from Agri Store in Ardagh, €11 for 3m.
My yard is 40m * 35m, gentle slope, any clue on how to best lay the pipes?
Im assuming the important thing is to drain from the bottom, not the top so should 1 pipe up the middle do?

Username John

Figerty wrote: »

Yeah, I have those drains as well. One patch of ground went boggy lately, it was one of these drains that collapsed.

Round west clare there seem to be two types. One as you described. the other has a flag base, one at an angles set against and upright forming a triangle. Strong and effective if set deep.

/|

We would have had a good few like that in the home place where the drains are shaped like a triangle. They were very good - but heavy machinery caused them to cave in...

One of those half-memories, from when I was very small, is of an very old man at home, repairing those drains. He just seemed to throw the flagstones in, and they always landed perfectly to make the triangle
But I dunno if my memory is blocking out all the bad throws...

JohnBoy

Think I posted this idea before.......

Terram (soil type geotextile) is around €5/M on a 4.5m roll.

cut that roll in half and you've two rolls 2.25 wide and costing €2.50/m

Dig a V shaped trench 1m deep, line with your 2.25m terram and fill 80% with stone. fold over the remaining terram and fill to the top with stone.

Any drain that doesnt have a good fall will be prone to blocking eventually.

the wrap on the connaught agri pipe simply aims to increase the surface area of filtration. with the whole drain lined in the same material theoretically it should take a very very long time for the filtration surface to seal up.


Not cheap mind.




Also has anyone tried jetting old piped drains?

grange mac

Hi Lads,

I have been reading with interest yere comments on the issue. Can ye tell me where I can get this "membrain" and what is it called exactly. I am in west cork.

I was going to go for the connacht agri pipes but now depending on what cost the membrain is, I am looking at 2&4" stone around a 4" corrie pipe which has been wrapped in a membrain to keep it clean.

I wont ever be putting slurry on it just grazing for cattle, tractor and manure spreader is heaviest that what will be travelling on it.

johngalway

JohnBoy wrote: »

Also has anyone tried jetting old piped drains?

There was a thread over on BFF about jetting drains, can't remember much more than that though. Looked to be a good job.

Figerty

The geotextile membrane you are looking for is Terram. A 4.5 metre roll x 100metres long is about 230euro inc vat. It ain't cheap so use wisely!

This is the white stuff somewhat like the old milk can filters...(if you are old enough). This is fiberous type material. There is another cheaper type which is a black woven type fabric. This is often used under plants to keep the weeds down.

The terram is used in road building to allow the water to pass through, but not the solid materials. It's often used on road building bog ground. Layer of terram on the bog and then the stone above. Very succesful when done right.



You can cut it easily with a knife to give you strips what ever with you need.....3.14 Diameter + overlap...knew that maths at school would come in useful someday!

grange mac wrote: »

Hi Lads,

I have been reading with interest yere comments on the issue. Can ye tell me where I can get this "membrain" and what is it called exactly. I am in west cork.

I was going to go for the connacht agri pipes but now depending on what cost the membrain is, I am looking at 2&4" stone around a 4" corrie pipe which has been wrapped in a membrain to keep it clean.

I wont ever be putting slurry on it just grazing for cattle, tractor and manure spreader is heaviest that what will be travelling on it.

LostCovey

We drained land with pea gravel and perforated pipes in the 1980s and it worked well for a while, but deteriorated quickly after about 10 years.

It is fighting against nature I suppose.


We also found that the flagged drains worked well, and we put in a length of it (very hard work, even with the stone on site) and it is still working long after the piped areas are a mire.

I often wonder why none of the pipe systems mimic the flagged drains (infrequent large gaps, rather than small holes).

LC

manjou

Have found loads of stone shores and when tapped into them they are still working and dry ground up well. Maybe they they dont silt up because they were put in at the correct fall like sewer pipes in houses too great a fall and they will block.Also the gaps in stone are too big and clay washes down through them to pipe. Water will flow between clay particles so maybe old shores use the clay itself as a filter.

LostCovey

manjou wrote: »

Have found loads of stone shores and when tapped into them they are still working and dry ground up well. Maybe they they dont silt up because they were put in at the correct fall like sewer pipes in houses too great a fall and they will block.Also the gaps in stone are too big and clay washes down through them to pipe. Water will flow between clay particles so maybe old shores use the clay itself as a filter.

Maybe so. Our land used to be part of an estate and we used to find two different types of flagged drains. One type had flags or built stone sides, and a flag across the top, like a door frame, biut we also found a couple that thought were a lot older, which were triangular, with a line of horizontal flags in the base of the drain, and two sloping flags meeting in the middle forming the roof. I was surprised that these didn't collapse, but any we came across (when cleaning the banks of a bigger watercourse) were in good nick, and flowing well.

LC

grange mac

Figerty, thank you. off to the coop I go...will let ye kno how I fair out

countryjimbo

JohnBoy wrote: »

the wrap on the connaught agri pipe simply aims to increase the surface area of filtration. with the whole drain lined in the same material theoretically it should take a very very long time for the filtration surface to seal up.

Isn't the connaught agri pipe a smaller yet much more convenient application of the Terram over stones & a pipe?

After reading all of this I think these pipes may be the way to go a boggy field where stones will move.

Anyone any experience of a machine for laying and covering these pipes in one pass?
It was described to me, sounded a bit like a sausage turf machine, has a blade that cuts a track, lays the pipe and covers it. Leaves approx 6" of a mark in the field.

pakalasa

countryjimbo wrote: »

Anyone any experience of a machine for laying and covering these pipes in one pass?
It was described to me, sounded a bit like a sausage turf machine, has a blade that cuts a track, lays the pipe and covers it. Leaves approx 6" of a mark in the field.

You mean a trencher;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqBQffslEwE&list=PL56C4B64B4D98EFF6&index=19&feature=plpp

Figerty

countryjimbo wrote: »

Isn't the connaught agri pipe a smaller yet much more convenient application of the Terram over stones & a pipe?

After reading all of this I think these pipes may be the way to go a boggy field where stones will move.

Anyone any experience of a machine for laying and covering these pipes in one pass?
It was described to me, sounded a bit like a sausage turf machine, has a blade that cuts a track, lays the pipe and covers it. Leaves approx 6" of a mark in the field.

This is true. but you have to be very selective where you choose to put each type of drain.

I don't use the terram on clay soils, no need ground is stable
I use the terram on boggy ground where I need the water to soak down from the top.
If I was to use the Connacht agri pipe, it would be where the water is springing up, maybe from a spring or just water table pressure.

49801

would there be a market for yellow drainage pipe in a terram sock?

saw a picture before of a drain pipe in the middle of a 1m DIA sock that was filled with Styrofoam. not exactly environ friendly or suitable for agri purposes but an interesting idea all the same.

i heard before that the connaught agri type have been used successfully in the rice paddies for a long time. i'd consider them for bog/peat ground but will stick with traditional yellow drain pipe and 2" hardcore for everything else.

vanderbadger

reilig wrote: »

hi manjou,

Just a few quick questions. I'm planning on doing some drainage with the Connacht Agri pipes myself in the next few weeks. I'm just wondering how you find them easy to break? From what I saw of the pipes, they are reasonably flexible and shouldn't really break with normal handling?

Also, on your own desigh of the geotextile cover on ordinary pipe, what type of pipe did you use? Size etc. I have prices ordinary drainage pipe (4 inch) and it alone costs over €1 per meter and woodies geotextile cover comes in at 40c per meter. I'd be also weary of the cheap geotextile covers from these hardwares. They are not made for burying beneath the soil in water logged ground and there is a good chance that they will rot in a short period of time and your pipes will fill with mud.

Contractor around here charges €4 per meter for drainage. This includes supplying the pipe and the stone and all the digging and finishing. At €2.80 per meter, and a 13 ton machine for 2 days, I plan on doing 1000m of drainage. This will cost me ~ €3600. It is bogland and I would have poor access for lorries with stone or for stoning carts to it. Juggle that with teh fact that ordinary drains will only work for a few years, and the Connacht Agri pipe is a definite option for me.

reilig how did you get on with this connaght agri stuff after or did you get to do it yet?

reilig

vanderbadger wrote: »

reilig how did you get on with this connaght agri stuff after or did you get to do it yet?

Not done yet. With all the drying, its still not dry enough

2000m of pipe sitting in the shed at home. :rolleyes:

limo_100

reilig wrote: »

Not done yet. With all the drying, its still not dry enough

2000m of pipe sitting in the shed at home. :rolleyes:

and is it expensive to buy??

vanderbadger

reilig wrote: »

Not done yet. With all the drying, its still not dry enough

2000m of pipe sitting in the shed at home. :rolleyes:

any joy yet? im guessing not with the terrible weather, am curious to hear how that pipe works

reilig

vanderbadger wrote: »

any joy yet? im guessing not with the terrible weather, am curious to hear how that pipe works

Not yet. Going to take a lot of drying before I will get it done. ESB went across it in a 6 wheeler atv yesterday and got stuck - only for the winch, it would still be there.

vanderbadger

reilig wrote: »

Not yet. Going to take a lot of drying before I will get it done. ESB went across it in a 6 wheeler atv yesterday and got stuck - only for the winch, it would still be there.

feck thats bad enough alright. walked down thru one of my own fields this morning to see a few heifers..jebus! dont think i have ever seen it so wet, even in wintertime, i hope a change comes along soon but it would need to be a heatwave nearly now

lakill Farm

reilig wrote: »

. ESB went across it in a 6 wheeler atv yesterday and got stuck - only for the winch, it would still be there.

almost a freebie

Figerty

reilig wrote: »

Not yet. Going to take a lot of drying before I will get it done. ESB went across it in a 6 wheeler atv yesterday and got stuck - only for the winch, it would still be there.

ATV ,,,,,,should change the name to MTV...most terrain vehicle...

johngalway

Christ, it must be like quick sand to stick an ATV.

grange mac

Lads,

I bought a role of terram, cut & laid it in a "u" shape boggy drain, and filled with stone..then covered over. Also testing out 4" corrie pipe, planning to staple the terrram around it and cover with stones....great in theory but machine has been parked as can barely travel the ground and rivers running through the newly opened drains. Badly need dry weather!! but nothing beats picking stones in the rain!!!:eek:

Hay_man

Looks good according to the video

Atilathehun

Hay_man wrote: »

Looks good according to the video

I had planned on a few acres of drainage this summer myself, but seeing as I got the weather, I planted a blast of rice instead. I'm expecting to be featured in the rag, later in the year, and get the coveted title "better farmer"!!

reilig

Hay_man wrote: »

Looks good according to the video

The land that I have to drain is as wet, if not wetter than in this video. Mine is bogland too. Currently too wet to open the drains, as the ground would move with the weight of the machine - the ground is almost bottomless unlike the ground in the video which has daub 2ft down.

Suckler

reilig wrote: »

The land that I have to drain is as wet, if not wetter than in this video. Mine is bogland too. Currently too wet to open the drains, as the ground would move with the weight of the machine - the ground is almost bottomless unlike the ground in the video which has daub 2ft down.

I have similar. Went in to open up a drain, work well in most spots but there was one spot in particular that was a myre. Got the tractor stuck to its oxters there once mowing. Went in with a 7ton machine and I left that patch a mess. Always said after I shouldve just dug a good deep soak hole and fenced it off.

pakalasa

Article in last weeks Journal on research into drainage. They were comparing mole, mole & gravel, open drains, deep buried pipes etc. It made a lot of sense from what I've seen myself. It all depends on the permiability of the subsoil and land gradients. There is no point in putting in deep drains if the subsoil won't allow water to seep through.