Will Fitzgerald Bounce Back?

Brendan97

Personally I think he will because he has shown flashes of brilliance and mabye not going to the rwc will mature him.

Fireball07

I think he'll get better. He has the talent and he's shown what he's capable of in the past. I think he'll get sharper and improve in the future. Maybe not immediately but he definitely won't stay at this level of form for the rest of his career, if that's what the question is.

justsomebloke

He depends on how he mentally handles not going to the WC. Playing badly in the 6 nations seemed to knock his confidence and he only started getting it back near the end of last season. I think he played quite well in the friendliest but if he let's not going effect him it could well be that he never becomes the player he should be

wixfjord

Joe the Santa wrote: »

He depends on how he mentally handles not going to the WC. Playing badly in the 6 nations seemed to knock his confidence and he only started getting it back near the end of last season. I think he played quite well in the friendliest but if he let's not going effect him it could well be that he never becomes the player he should be

Seems to have handled it pretty well by all accounts.
Training with Leinster on Tuesday, and asked to start on Fri according to Joe
Time will tell,but I think it could crown him to get a few low profile games for Leinster in.

Stev_o

Honestly it's all down to the mental side he's admitted to himself suffering from over analysis like Wilko has, wrote in his Herald comment that Jamie Roberts to lighten up and play with a smile on his face. He does come across as 100% serious in his matches and that can kill a guy who starts questioning himself on why he's playing badly.

Mean the guy is only 23. He needs to set himself some goals and define what sort of player he is because to me while he is a incredible footballer with great intelligence (runs the best lines you'll see but ALWAYS over runs them) he seems to fall into the jack of all trades master of none cards. He'll be quickly over taken at Provincial and International level if he can't find his role.

tolosenc

He played very well in the last couple of Ireland games.

danthefan

According to Schmidt he was back into the Leinster camp immediately and virtually insisted on playing this weekend against Northampton, which is great to hear. His form has been on an upward curve in recent months and it'll continue, without a doubt.

pappyodaniel

He will probably bounce back AT the World Cup injuries permitting. He'll know himself that he had a bad season and that being the main reason he wasn't picked.

totallegend

Stev_o wrote: »

Mean the guy is only 23. He needs to set himself some goals and define what sort of player he is because to me while he is a incredible footballer with great intelligence (runs the best lines you'll see but ALWAYS over runs them) he seems to fall into the jack of all trades master of none cards. He'll be quickly over taken at Provincial and International level if he can't find his role.

Yeah, this would be my main worry, Leinster have a lot of back three players and more coming through every year, so he needs to nail down his Leinster place.
As you say, he's 23; he's won two Heineken Cups, a Grand Slam and been a Lions test player - he's already achieved more than most players manage in an entire career but this is his first major setback. How he recovers from it will be the making or breaking of him.

I hope he does it, I think he will.

CatFromHue

I hope he does. There have been one or two deficiency's in his game that he hasn't addressed. When he does he will be an excellent player. I don't think all the positional changes have helped him and he has had unfair expectations when he has changed position e.g. with only a few games for Leinster at 12 he was playing for Ireland at 12 against NZ.

cgpg5

What a difference two years makes. Along with Tommy far and away the best winger on the lions tour in SA two years ago, now can't even make the Irish thirty. However injury at the end of last season didn't help- he hasn't been the same since. He is only 23 so age is certainly on his side. Also, should one of the Irish backs get injured (hopefully not) I'm sure he'd be the first back on standby. May even play a part yet!

astonaidan

Personally I cant see him staying playing at a low level, Hes just too talented, Hopefully being dropped from Ireland will push him back towards his best, Would be a shame if he has peaked at 23, Thought myself he was the most talented of Kearney and Earls when he first came in

Profiler

I voted that he will be back, not that I know the guy, but from what bits of information that appear to be leaking out post RWC squad announcement Luke appears to have the right attitude.

I feel that if he has a bit of time with Leinster to play some games away from the full glare of attention while the RWC is on, I think his natural rugby playing ability will come through when he is out of that pressure cooker environment.

He has been a great player for Leinster and Ireland, I hope that he will get back there as soon as is possible.

Almaviva

Or is it just that the hype and expectation was always out of kilter with the reality (better at that age than BOD etc - BOD did more in his first 3 internationals than Fitz has done in 20 Irish caps) ?

He just isnt as good as we hoped or were led to believe.

There is no :loss of confidence, out of form, struggling to come back after injuries, not being allowed settle in one position, whatever excuse you;'re having yourself. These are just attempts to avoid accepting the truth : what we have been watching is as good as he gets.

tolosenc

Almaviva wrote: »

Or is it just that the hype and expectation was always out of kilter with the reality (better at that age than BOD etc - BOD did more in his first 3 internationals than Fitz has done in 20 Irish caps) ?

He just isnt as good as we hoped or were led to believe.

There is no :loss of confidence, out of form, struggling to come back after injuries, not being allowed settle in one position, whatever excuse you;'re having yourself. These are just attempts to avoid accepting the truth : what we have been watching is as good as he gets.

So explain why he used to be better than he is now...

Bearcat

I wish Luke the best. I'd say the man himself will put his hand up and admit he's been a bit erratic from his usual standard. I believe he'll bounce back, he's a determined lad.

CatFromHue

tolosenc wrote: »

So explain why he used to be better than he is now...

I always thought there was an element of because he was a young inexperienced player that mistakes he made were ignored as he was a young inexperienced player. This is the way it should be.

The problem now is that he is no longer that young (I know he is 23 but has been on the scene long enough now) inexperienced player and so the mistakes he makes are no longer ignored.

The over running thing is one. He was doing this on the Lions tour.

Sometimes in defence I think he tackles the wrong guy.

Quint2010

Joe Schmidt will work his magic on him. He will be back better than ever. Missing the WC could be the making fo him. Let him re build his confidence in the Pro 12 and take it from there

CIARAN_BOYLE

CatFromHue wrote: »

Sometimes in defence I think he tackles the wrong guy.

Earls did that on Saturday and he is good enough to go the WC:D

phog

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Earls did that on Saturday and he is good enough to go the WC:D

so did Jennings (twice) and he's not going

CatFromHue

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Earls did that on Saturday and he is good enough to go the WC:D

If you're talking about Heymans try Earls didn't tackle anyone! He was caught ball watching Rougerie!

phog

CatFromHue wrote: »

If you're talking about Heymans try Earls didn't tackle anyone! He was caught ball watching Rougerie!

as was BOD and Darcy, going for the same man, do these guy not talk to each other.:(

CatFromHue

phog wrote: »

as was BOD and Darcy, going for the same man, do these guy not talk to each other.:(

Bod didnt go for him he left Rougerie to Darcy. Earls was covering across behind the line like a sweeper but spent to much time watching Rougerie even though D'arcy was tackling him.

If you go to 1.40 in the clip in the link below you'll see what I mean.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=73975260&postcount=613

phog

CatFromHue wrote: »

Bod didnt go for him he left Rougerie to Darcy. Earls was covering across behind the line like a sweeper but spent to much time watching Rougerie even though D'arcy was tackling him.

If you go to 1.40 in the clip in the link below you'll see what I mean.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=73975260&postcount=613

I know exactly what happend and laying any portion of blame for that try on Earls is being stupid.

theboss80

CatFromHue wrote: »

If you're talking about Heymans try Earls didn't tackle anyone! He was caught ball watching Rougerie!

Maybe meant the off ball tackle on Parra

Hagz

Surely Boyle is talking about the moment where Earls tackled Parra?? <- when he didn't have the ball. Which I thought was justifiable as it looked like he was getting the ball.

CatFromHue

phog wrote: »

I know exactly what happend and laying any portion of blame for that try on Earls is being stupid.

Why?

Earls was sweeping across in case of any switchbacks or line breaks. Rougerie half broke the line, Earls got sucked in without seeing Heymans on a switchback and Heymans went over with out a hand layed on him. Earls was in a great position to see all this unfolding.

I'm not saying it's all Earls fault but he could have stopped it if he was paying more attention.

CatFromHue

Hagz wrote: »

Surely Boyle is talking about the moment where Earls tackled Parra?? <- when he didn't have the ball. Which I thought was justifiable as it looked like he was getting the ball.

Haha he did yeah. He smashed him too!

MaryKing

CatFromHue wrote: »

Why?

Earls was sweeping across in case of any switchbacks or line breaks. Rougerie half broke the line, Earls got sucked in without seeing Heymans on a switchback and Heymans went over with out a hand layed on him. Earls was in a great position to see all this unfolding.

I'm not saying it's all Earls fault but he could have stopped it if he was paying more attention.

Liam Toland in his column in the Irish Times lays the blame with Jonathan Sexton:

"As Aurélien Rougerie carried in midfield from the French penalty line-out the Irish defence was sound. But in the blink of an eye Heymans struck. Simple power play from France but poor defence from Ireland as the numbers were there but Jonathan Sexton quit on D’Arcy’s inside and didn’t anticipate a simple French switch. A poor effort from a man displaying lots of impatience for better and Heymans’ score was very costly.'

I think Luke will be back:

"The French in that moment displayed what Ireland lacked until Luke Fitzgerald arrived. Apart from his poor left-handed pass to deck he mimics the French like no other. O’Brien’s last-gasp try was well deserved but it was Fitzgerald’s power play from the broken lineout that created the space."


http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2011/0822/1224302805389.html

thebaz

Fitzerald will bounce back - he will be an irish star over the next 8 years - i think he will come back a much better player - he oozes talent - just has been over trying of late - a break and less pressure will do him good

marco_polo

Of course he will bounce back he is s a very talented young guy who was unfortunate to hit a bad spell in his career at the worst possible time, and was also probably unlucky that he plays in one of the few positions of the field where we have real depth.

Piliger

I really really hope he bounces back. I do. In my view he hasn't played at a top level since he came back from the Lions and should have been dropped last year. Instead his flaws have been indulged and that has done him no favours at all.

He has enormous potential but has carried over several flaws that he has never sorted properly.

I watched him make his first appearances for Leinster and Ireland and many thereafter. It was glaringly obvious that he had a serious problem over running passes. I was surprised he was chosen for the Lions but he seemed to have conquered this when on tour. However on his return, this terrible habit reappeared and he hasn't done anything to conquer it since, partly imho because he was never forced to.

He seems like a really nice young guy with boundless enthusiasm. I hope he comes back.

Podge_irl

I honestly don't think he's ever been a really top class wing. He's clearly a talented rugby player and I don't doubt that he'll bounce back. He's got some amazing skills and reads the game brilliantly. I know he's been tried at centre before and it didn't really work but I just don't see him as a wing long term.

totallegend

I always thought Fitz had a great understanding with Felipe Contepomi but since Sexton took over he just hasn't clicked in the same way; possibly coincidental, I don't know...

GerM

It didn't help him that he was asked to play 15 on his return from injuries. It would have been much wiser to let him ease in at 11 and get his game back. It was very sloppy man management whether it was by Schmidt or Kidney. He came back from a long lay off at the start of the season and played 15 twice with not a lot of success. The idea was shelved and he went back to 11 where he was actually gaining form after a few weeks. He was excellent in the match at home to Racing looking threatening and creating tries. He shipped another injury and then, when he came back ahead of the 6N, he was handed the 15 jersey again and again struggled before it was magnified ten fold by putting him in the same position for the 6N with no form. Really naive management for me and they should harbour some responsibility for their handling of the player when it was clear he wasn't working at 15.

He'll bounce back. He's one of the most naturally gifted players in the country and once he gets his form and confidence back (which was well on the way back it seems but the dropping may have knocked it again) he'll be a great player once again.

Sport101

For a winger, Luke doesn't score enough tries. Shane Horgan, who was excellent through the second half of last season, has a way better strike rate and could arguably be called a better winger at the moment. He needs to forget about the dancing feet and flashy offloads, and concentrate on scoring, like Tuesday night in Coppers.

phog

GerM wrote: »

It didn't help him that he was asked to play 15 on his return from injuries. It would have been much wiser to let him ease in at 11 and get his game back.

It's a tad easier to be right with hindsight, I just did a quick scan of the thread "Changes for Ireland V France" game in the 6Ns and from what I can see most posters named Fitz at the FB position and that was the 2nd game of the tournament.

shuffol

Fitz will come back and be a top player, he's got too much talent not to, he just needs to rediscover his game, possibly reinvent himself. Same as Bowe and Trimble. Bowe 4 years ago was your run of the mill winger but seemed to lack acceleration to get away from players, he changed his game into a winger who pops up in midfield, runs excellent lines and has fantastic hands, he's also a far more physical player. Look at Trimble too, was strugging to impose himself in the center but a switch out to the wing and he's been flying for the last 18 mths, he also took a while to fully recover from his injury problems.

I can see Fitz developing into a similiar winger to Bowe or else moving to 12. His best attribute IMO is his awareness in congested areas of those around him and how to suck in defenders to create space, has probably as good a hands as anyone in Ireland too. When he has too much time he tends to think too much(starts spinning the ball in his hands) and ruins any potential opportunities for counterattack, hence his poor displays at FB. However Saturday was the first game in a while I've seen him just run with the ball without been hesitant so maybe some positive signs there.

GerM

phog wrote: »

It's a tad easier to be right with hindsight, I just did a quick scan of the thread "Changes for Ireland V France" game in the 6Ns and from what I can see most posters named Fitz at the FB position and that was the 2nd game of the tournament.

He was actually alright against Italy aside from copping flak for the Italian try positionally. But from point at which Leinster started playing him there against Glasgow in the season opener, he was struggling overall. He had a very poor showing there that day and management persisted with the idea. I was always of the opinion that it was foolish to try and shoehorn someone in like that. At the start of the 6N, I believed Duffy should have been given the jersey for Ireland and would have been the consistent and solid choice but it seems he was never in the reckoning. It was always an idea though it seems from the start of the season and it was never deviated from despite performances until far too late. Playing players in their correct positions should always be the way.

Brendan97

He is a better winger than a full back and he kicks far too much. i hope he gets better

RugGod

He hasn't had the best season but then it was a season coming back from a career threatening injury and one where he was parachuted into a position he doesn't play regularly in an international match!

He was actually better than Earls has been so far in the warm up games. People are overly harsh on the guy, I hear all the time how Fitzgerald and Earls arent living up to their hype but Fitzgerald did live up to his hype, he was a lions test starter, 2 time HC winner and GS winner and has had an awful injury, I think next season hes going to come back to the player he was pre injury.

bamboozle

RugGod wrote: »

He hasn't had the best season but then it was a season coming back from a career threatening injury and one where he was parachuted into a position he doesn't play regularly in an international match!

He was actually better than Earls has been so far in the warm up games. People are overly harsh on the guy, I hear all the time how Fitzgerald and Earls arent living up to their hype but Fitzgerald did live up to his hype, he was a lions test starter, 2 time HC winner and GS winner and has had an awful injury, I think next season hes going to come back to the player he was pre injury.

he's achieved the above at 23, he's entitled to a blip in form especially after being rushed back. Maybe like Padraig Harrington he needs to relax a little and let things come more naturally, he's a player that relies on excellent instinct, however when confidence was low he was trying to force things.
He still played well in the warm up matches and i still think he should be in the squad ahead of Wallace as McF fills in well in the center.

Almaviva

tolosenc wrote: »

So explain why he used to be better than he is now...

Your question is flawed by the assumption in it - I dont think he was really any better in the past than he is now. A few years ago, fFor his age, yes, there was some precocity. But on an absolute scale, when did he ever even get close to having a match winning game for Leinster or Ireland? He is game, enthusiastic, looks quick, is generally a good tackler - but despite all that, in most games he has generally been quite annonymous and ordinary rather than a strength of the team.

And now his confidence is being hit by the excessive expectation that has been with him since he was in school and the reality that he is not living up to it - and maybe never will be.

Luckycharm

Hopefully as others have said needs to stop over running the ball and he also needs to stop forcing things trying passes that are not on etc. I would like to see him given a go in the centre where I think his skillset is better suited.

Hagz

Almaviva wrote: »

Your question is flawed by the assumption in it - I dont think he was really any better in the past than he is now. A few years ago, fFor his age, yes, there was some precocity. But on an absolute scale, when did he ever even get close to having a match winning game for Leinster or Ireland? He is game, enthusiastic, looks quick, is generally a good tackler - but despite all that, in most games he has generally been quite annonymous and ordinary rather than a strength of the team.

And now his confidence is being hit by the excessive expectation that has been with him since he was in school and the reality that he is not living up to it - and maybe never will be.

I disagree. For some reason there are people on this forum who appear to want Fitzgerald to play below par, just so they can say he's over-hyped. I think it's totally unjust to say that in general he's anonymous. Fitzgerald has only really had two consistent seasons of rugby. And in those two seasons he scored 8 tries in the first, and was Leinster's highest try score in the next with 9. He also won a grand-slam and made it onto the B&I tour. Unfortunatly after that he was out for a whole season through injury. And in this season he's been coming back from injury.

As long as he's not interrupted with another serious injury, and not played around the park in different positions, I expect him to return to great form. Fitzgerald is a brilliant player when he's on form. He is without a shadow of a doubt the best defensive winger in Ireland, and in attack he has vision and skill.

phog

RugGod wrote: »

He hasn't had the best season but then it was a season coming back from a career threatening injury and one where he was parachuted into a position he doesn't play regularly in an international match!

A postion he clearly stated that he wanted to play in, maybe he sees the FB as more prestigious than the wing, seems to be a lot of that lately

Amazotheamazing

I think he'll bounce back but I think he's not really helped by having massively high expectations set for him. People who say they want him to do well aren't doing any good for him by over talking what's done so far or the form he's currently in. He's rightly outside the RWC squad, imo.

He, like Earls and McFadden, needs to pick one spot and give it everything to be the best at that position. Even if it meant dropping out of Int reckoning for a while i think he'd be better for it in the long term. Look at Trimble, he used to be a jack of all trades, covered 12 and 13 as well as both wings, now he's seen as an out and out winger and is, imo, ahead of Earls to start for Ireland.

molloyjh

GerM wrote: »

It was always an idea though it seems from the start of the season and it was never deviated from despite performances until far too late. Playing players in their correct positions should always be the way.

An idea that was persisted with even though it proved not to work? There's a lot of that about these days.

phog wrote: »

A postion he clearly stated that he wanted to play in, maybe he sees the FB as more prestigious than the wing, seems to be a lot of that lately

I'm not sure that 2 warm-ups games coming back from injury with Leinster followed by 2 international games coming back from another injury is enough to allow anyone to call whether Fitzy could be a good FB. He needs to be given the opportunity to develop into that position. He can't just pick up the skills off the ground.

He tends to be pretty good under high-ball, tackles well and can be very good with ball in hand. There's every chance that given a real opportunity to settle into a FB position he could do the business. Throwing him in for 2 random games here and 2 random games there, both when he's coming back from injury, isn't going to prove anything.

I reckon Fitzy will come back to form. His age and talent should ensure it.

WonderBoy9

Had to post this. PUMA ADVERTISING FAIL. If you were Lukey Fitz or Tomo, you'd be pretty p'd off with these floating around the net, bus shelters, in press ads on posters.....

GerM

Mike Ross looks to be in mortal pain in that photo.

molloyjh

GerM wrote: »

Mike Ross looks to be in mortal pain in that photo.

BOD looks like he's been CGI-ed in.