TV License - can they enter my house?

Mossy_Da_Dog

This evening a lady knocked at my door, she looked like a retired nun so I opened it. Flashed the id and told me she was a license inspector. I told her I didn't have a telly and she asked if she could come in and have a look around and verify that... I said no and she wrote on her form "refused entry".

So what happens next?

She said they'd write to me requesting permission to come round and have a look but I have looked on other threads here and they need a warrant yeah?

Has anyone been in this sitch before? What happened?

Paulw

Mossy_Da_Dog wrote: »

She said they'd write to me requesting permission to come round and have a look but I have looked on other threads here and they need a warrant yeah?

If they suspect you do have a TV, they can apply for a search warrant and can come back with the Gardai and inspect the premises.

After that, if you don't have a TV license but you do have a device capable of receiving signal (such as a TV), they will then summons you to court, for a large fine.

MapForJ

Mossy_Da_Dog wrote: »

. I told her I didn't have a telly

do you?

No1J

You can't have one anywhere in the house, like even an old one in the attic or under the stairs, they all count.

Builderfromhell

Havn't owned a TV in years yet when I recently moved to new house we got a notice from An Post informing us that they noted we were new to house and did not have a TV licence.
Amazed at their efficiency.
very difficult to persuade them that we do not have a TV,
We are happy to download from net and watch when and what we want.

Manach

Builderfromhell wrote: »

We are happy to download from net and watch when and what we want.

I heard that the State was toying with the idea to make PCs which can d/l part of a future licence remit

Mossy_Da_Dog

I bought one yesterday!

Finnbar01

Paulw wrote: »

If they suspect you do have a TV, they can apply for a search warrant and can come back with the Gardai and inspect the premises.

But in order to apply for a search warrant, wouldn't they have to prove that the other person has a TV. Also would gardaí be willing to kick someones door down over a TV???

After that, if you don't have a TV license but you do have a device capable of receiving signal (such as a TV), they will then summons you to court, for a large fine.

That's an urban myth. Have you ever seen a TV dectector van doing the rounds?

0O7

Mossy_Da_Dog wrote: »

This evening a lady knocked at my door, she looked like a retired nun so I opened it. Flashed the id and told me she was a license inspector. I told her I didn't have a telly and she asked if she could come in and have a look around and verify that... I said no and she wrote on her form "refused entry".

So what happens next?

She said they'd write to me requesting permission to come round and have a look but I have looked on other threads here and they need a warrant yeah?

Has anyone been in this sitch before? What happened?

you are a legend... i always wanted to do / say that but wouldnt

Paulw

Finnbar01 wrote: »

But in order to apply for a search warrant, wouldn't they have to prove that the other person has a TV. Also would gardaí be willing to kick someones door down over a TV???

That's an urban myth. Have you ever seen a TV dectector van doing the rounds?

Who said anything about kicking down a door? They tend to just knock. :rolleyes: They don't need to prove you have a TV to get a search warrant (the warrant is to search to see if you do have a TV). The warrant can be optained if they have a valid suspicion that a TV is there or a device capable of receiving a TV signal.

Urban myth?? Sorry, the law states that if you have a device capable of receiving a TV signal then you must have a TV license. Not sure what you're on about with detector vans. If you have no TV but have a pc with a tuner card, then you must have a TV license, according to the wording of the law.

Finnbar01

Paulw wrote: »

Who said anything about kicking down a door? They tend to just knock. :rolleyes:

First up, your comprehension skills leave a lot to be desired.

If the garda come to the door with a search warrant and you refuse to let them in, they will indeed kick it down. Also, I asked the question would the gardaí actually do that just to search for a TV.

They don't need to prove you have a TV to get a search warrant (the warrant is to search to see if you do have a TV). The warrant can be optained if they have a valid suspicion that a TV is there or a device capable of receiving a TV signal.

You contradicted yourself here. You start off saying that they don't need any proof to obtain a warrant, then you state that they need a valid suspicion (proof) to get the warrant in the first place. :rolleyes:

Urban myth?? Sorry, the law states that blah blah blah.

Again, re-read my post. I said that TV dector vans are an urban myth not the actual TV license itself.

Bartyman

I could be wrong, but I think if you even have an aerial or satellite dish, this is capable of receiving a TV signal then you need a licence for it.

Happened to me years ago, got rid of TV for the summer, but was informed that you still need a licence for an aerial or dish.

seamus

Finnbar01 wrote: »

You start off saying that they don't need any proof to obtain a warrant, then you state that they need a valid suspicion (proof) to get the warrant in the first place.

A suspicion is not proof. Otherwise they wouldn't need to get a warrant. The purpose of the warrant is to obtain proof.

For the purposes of a warrant to check for a TV, it's generally assumed that everyone has a TV, because that's the reality. In this case a "valid suspicion" is, "He said he didn't have a TV, but refused to voluntarily let us see, therefore I believe he has one".

Paulw

Finnbar01 wrote: »

If the garda come to the door with a search warrant and you refuse to let them in, they will indeed kick it down. Also, I asked the question would the gardaí actually do that just to search for a TV.

They won't kick it down. They will simply arrest the person who answers the door for interfering with their search.

Finnbar01 wrote: »

You contradicted yourself here. You start off saying that they don't need any proof to obtain a warrant, then you state that they need a valid suspicion (proof) to get the warrant in the first place.

o contradiction at all. I think you need to learn the difference between proof and suspicion. They only need to suspect you have a TV. The search is to prove you do have one. They do not need proof to get a warrant. If they had proof, they wouldn't need a warrant, they'd simply take you to court. :rolleyes: Suspicion does not equal a need of proof.

Finnbar01 wrote: »

Again, re-read my post. I said that TV dector vans are an urban myth not the actual TV license itself.

You were the one who mentioned TV detector vans, no one else did. And I've never heard that urban myth before. They don't have those and don't need them.

Finnbar01

Paulw wrote: »

They won't kick it down. They will simply arrest the person who answers the door for interfering with their search.

And if the person closes the door, they will kick it down, no? Also, I asked the question would the garda be willing to kick down someones door over a TV???

o contradiction at all. I think you need to learn the difference between proof and suspicion. They only need to suspect you have a TV. The search is to prove you do have one. They do not need proof to get a warrant. If they had proof, they wouldn't need a warrant, they'd simply take you to court. :rolleyes: Suspicion does not equal a need of proof.

They can suspect all they want. They need more than a valid supicion (what the held is a 'valid' suspicion anyways?) to obtain a warrant. If that wasn't the case, warrants would be issued left, right and centre.

You were the one who mentioned TV detector vans, no one else did. And I've never heard that urban myth before. They don't have those and don't need them.

Someone else mention TV dection devices. I responded and posted that TV dection devices or dection vans if you will, are an urban myth. You misread it completely. Please go back and read my posts. :rolleyes:

For the purposes of a warrant to check for a TV, it's generally assumed that everyone has a TV, because that's the reality. In this case a "valid suspicion" is,

Not true at all. I know a lot of people that have dicthed their TV over the last few years. I watch about 1 hour of TV a week and will definately be getting rid of it in a frew months time.

"He said he didn't have a TV, but refused to voluntarily let us see, therefore I believe he has one".

Why should someone let a stranger into his house? If he's telling the truth than the inspector (salesman) is accussing him of being a liar.

Paulw

Finnbar01 wrote: »

And if the person closes the door, they will kick it down, no? Also, I asked the question would the garda be willing to kick down someones door over a TV???

They won't allow you to close the door in the first place. But, I doubt they would kick in the door. But, then again, they might. They do have a valid warrant for entry and search.

Finnbar01 wrote: »

They can suspect all they want. They need more than a valid supicion (what the held is a 'valid' suspicion anyways?) to obtain a warrant.

No, a valid suspicion is all they need.

Finnbar01 wrote: »

Someone else mention TV dection devices. I responded and posted that TV dection devices or dection vans if you will, are an urban myth. You misread it completely. Please go back and read my posts. :rolleyes:

Nope, you were the only one to mention this. Care to show the post in this thread that you're referring to, about these detection devices????

Finnbar01 wrote: »

Why should someone let a stranger into his house? If he's telling the truth than the inspector (salesman) is accussing him of being a liar.

This "stranger" has valid ID, to prove the job they are doing. If you suspect the ID is not valid, you can always phone up and verify. You are always within your right to refuse entry, but they are then also within their right to report this, and apply for a search warrant.

A TV license inspector is not a salesman. They are not selling anything. They are simply inspecting. They have nothing to sell. They don't carry licenses you can buy at the door from them. :rolleyes:

Doirtybirdy

If you are summonsed to court accused of licence evasion,it is up to you to prove you are innocent.
I was asked at the door if they could see the tv point as theres a cable tv junction box with cables coming into the house.
I showed it to them.

You would want to have proof that you don't have a sub with the local cable company if thats the case.
I haven't heard anything since.

I suggest you google the many 100's of cases that are in court every year for licence evasion as you'll get an idea of whats coming down the tracks to you...
You'll see what other people tried to get away with and didn't.

If you've no TV then fine.

Finnbar01

Paulw wrote: »

They won't allow you to close the door in the first place. But, I doubt they would kick in the door. But, then again, they might. They do have a valid warrant for entry and search.

What if you have say a poarch and the poarch door is locked?

No, a valid suspicion is all they need.

. Would they not need more than just a suspicion? Say, if they saw or heard a TV standing at the door.

Nope, you were the only one to mention this. Care to show the post in this thread that you're referring to, about these detection devices????

You're right, I'm wrong. I had multiple threads open on this and got mixed up. the point I made though still stands.

This "stranger" has valid ID, to prove the job they are doing. If you suspect the ID is not valid, you can always phone up and verify. You are always within your right to refuse entry, but they are then also within their right to report this, and apply for a search warrant.

A TV license inspector is not a salesman. They are not selling anything. They are simply inspecting. They have nothing to sell. They don't carry licenses you can buy at the door from them. :rolleyes:

He is still a stranger and I don't want anyone in my house who is not asked in. Also, he does sell something, his time ( but that's getting into economics, so lets not go there.)

senordingdong

Paulw wrote: »

If they suspect you do have a TV, they can apply for a search warrant and can come back with the Gardai and inspect the premises.

After that, if you don't have a TV license but you do have a device capable of receiving signal (such as a TV), they will then summons you to court, for a large fine.

That's it...but do you think the Gardaí have the resources to spare for this kinda crap?

Paulw

Finnbar01 wrote: »

Would they not need more than just a suspicion? Say, if they saw or heard a TV standing at the door.

If they see a TV, they don't need to go get a warrant. They then know you have a TV. :rolleyes: They simply make a note and it is sent to their legal section to begin court precedings.

They simply need a suspicion to apply for a warrant. Signs of an aerial or satellite dish, or noise like a TV would be good enough for most to get a warrant.

They're very quick and efficient. It's simple - if you have a device capable of receiving a TV signal, then you must have a TV license. If they call to your door, you better have a TV license, or no device, or else you will end up in court.

twowheelsonly

Finnbar01 wrote: »

But in order to apply for a search warrant, wouldn't they have to prove that the other person has a TV. Also would gardaí be willing to kick someones door down over a TV???

Paulw wrote: »

They won't allow you to close the door in the first place. But, I doubt they would kick in the door. But, then again, they might. They do have a valid warrant for entry and search.

:

IMO, they quite possibly would 'kick the door down' but most likely would force their way in in any case.
You can be done for obstruction for refusing to allow a Garda with a valid warrant to carry out his duty, but on top of that, what Garda is going to return to the station and say that he was refused entry so he just left because you said no thanks!!. He's be laughed out of it.

Finnbar01

Paulw wrote: »

If they see a TV, they don't need to go get a warrant. They then know you have a TV. :rolleyes: They simply make a note and it is sent to their legal section to begin court precedings.

AFAIK, that wouldn't be good enough. They would still need a warrant to actually verifiy it???

They're very quick and efficient. It's simple - if you have a device capable of receiving a TV signal, then you must have a TV license. If they call to your door, you better have a TV license, or no device, or else you will end up in court.

Even if your TV is broken, you still need a license. That's what I've being told anyway.

Paulw

senordingdong wrote: »

That's it...but do you think the Gardaí have the resources to spare for this kinda crap?

No idea about resourcing, but it only takes one Garda and doesn't take long to do. It's not like they go in and take the place apart.

Finnbar01 wrote: »

AFAIK, that wouldn't be good enough. They would still need a warrant to actually verifiy it???

Ok, so they can see you have a TV, but they need a warrant to verify that they can see a TV? Would they not also need to have their eyes tested too, or have another person also there to verify that they can actually see a TV?? :eek:

Seeing a TV is enough to move on to the next step, no search warrant would be needed.

seamus

Finnbar01 wrote: »

AFAIK, that wouldn't be good enough. They would still need a warrant to actually verifiy it???

No. Seeing the TV from the front door or seeing it from the middle of the living room is identical. In court the inspector would be asked, "Did you see a television", and the answer is "yes".

They would only require a warrant if the TV is not visible from the door. That is, if they claimed to have seen the television from inside the house, but had not been invited in and did not have a warrant, then that evidence would be inadmissable.

A slightly similar story was on the animals forum earlier this year. A dog warden called to a woman's door to check for licences and saw her two dogs sitting in the house without collars on. So he fined her because the law says that dogs must have collars on at all times. He didn't need any kind of warrant - he was standing outside and could see that the offence was being committed.

Destroyer666

Have'nt paid my licence in two years and never got a house call or a letter or anything. I pay my Sky bill which I feel okay about as I get some amount of quality with what I pay for. And I no a few people like myself and like that have never had a bit of bother. Honestly Id be embarresed to fork out €100 or whatever it is to look at the watered down bbc wanaby ****e they continually spew out. And as we know full well nearly all RTE are on cocaine so I think from a moral point of view its wrong to feed the abuser.

Sala

Does a PC monitor and boxee box count as a TV for the purposes of the licence? It download through the net, and doesn't receive a TV signal

seamus

No, for the moment a PC or other internet device does not require a TV licence.

One thing to watch out for is that the divide between PC monitors and TVs is slowly being closed, as TVs generally all become HD. I use a 22" HDTV as my PC monitor at home. Even if I only used the computer for watching stuff online and didn't have another TV in the house, I would still be required to have a TV licence because my monitor is capable of receiving and displaying a signal.

Finnbar01

:rolleyes:

Paulw wrote: »

No idea about resourcing, but it only takes one Garda and doesn't take long to do. It's not like they go in and take the place apart.



Ok, so they can see you have a TV, but they need a warrant to verify that they can see a TV? Would they not also need to have their eyes tested too, or have another person also there to verify that they can actually see a TV?? :eek:

Seeing a TV is enough to move on to the next step, no search warrant would be needed.

You're a right one altogether. You would think that a person with as many posts as you ,would have learned a thing called manners, aye? :rolleyes:

If you find it so offensive in answering posters questions why do you bother?

mydearwatson

Just curious ...

A friend moved into an apartment at the start of last year. The TV inspector called round a couple of months later and asked if he had a licence ... my friend said that he didn't, but would get one soon. He called into the post office and said that he'd just moved into the apartment and wouldn't be able to afford one for a couple of months, they said that was fine and gave him a date two months later to pay it by.

Anyways he didn't pay it, and several months later got a registered letter in the post which he assumes was a summons (he got the note saying that he missed the delivery of this registered letter, and to collect it from the depot - he never did.)

Shortly afterwards he moved out of the apartment. This was several months ago, and he thinks he's gotten away with it now because they've got nothing but his name.

Any opinions on this? Can they get on to the landlord to provide more details to chase him up on this?

seamus

mydearwatson wrote: »

Any opinions on this? Can they get on to the landlord to provide more details to chase him up on this?

Yes. If they really wanted to pursue it, they could obtain a court order obliging the landlord and the PRTB to provide information about him. They would be able to use a number of avenues to obtain his PPSN, at which point he can be tracked down eventually.

polyfusion

Bartyman wrote: »

I could be wrong, but I think if you even have an aerial or satellite dish, this is capable of receiving a TV signal then you need a licence for it.

Happened to me years ago, got rid of TV for the summer, but was informed that you still need a licence for an aerial or dish.

That would mean that if you had wire clothes hangers, that you'd have to get a licence.

I think the distinction comes down to a device which has a tuner or is connected to a tuner capable of processing television signals.

IMO, the sooner they bring in that media licence, or whatever it's called, the better, almost every household will be liable, and it will stop these sh!te threads cropping up every few months.

senordingdong

Media license shouldn't change much, as it stands a pc monitor warrants a tv license.

Builderfromhell

A friend of mine was dumping a load of electrical stuff and I offered to bring the stuff to the recycling centre. The items included a TV which he told me worked perfectly.
I took TV home with intention of letting kids use it for gaming until I find someone who wants it.
We do not watch TV, preferring to watch stuff online, so I wonder should I legally have a TV licence. If so, the TV will be going on Jumbletown.

seamus

Yes, if you have a TV, you are legally required to have a TV licence, whether you actually watch TV or not.

Nate--IRL--

senordingdong wrote: »

Media license shouldn't change much, as it stands a pc monitor warrants a tv license.

Are you sure? It can't receive a TV signal.

Nate

saa

Hmm I applied for a direct debit for one, I am going to cancel it when its paid and get rid of the ntl, bit of a hassle to get rid of the tv that I don't drive but will have to

Just wondering how do I prove I don't have tv I have to ask them round to have a look?

Our man in Havana

Nate--IRL-- wrote: »

Are you sure? It can't receive a TV signal.

Nate

If it cannot receive a signal then it does not not need a licence.

I have foxed many an inspector with that one over the years. Remove the tuner and it cannot receive a signal.

tayto lover

A neighbour told me that he had a visit from the t.v. licence inspector. He told him he had no t.v. The inspector said it didn't matter about the t.v. because he had an aerial on the roof and so needed a licence. The lad told me he told the inspector " i have a bottle of milk in the fridge but i have no cow"

Our man in Havana

Aerial on the roof as explained many times before does not need a licence.

slimjimmc

Bartyman wrote: »

I could be wrong, but I think if you even have an aerial or satellite dish, this is capable of receiving a TV signal then you need a licence for it.

Happened to me years ago, got rid of TV for the summer, but was informed that you still need a licence for an aerial or dish.

Correct, you are wrong, and so was the person who informed you of that falsehood. However it might be enough to scare those who really do have a TV into getting a licence. A TV set by definition is anything (or combination of devices) which is capable of receiving and displaying a TV broadcast, whether or not you actually use it for that purpose. An aerial or sat dish on it's own doesn't meet both requirements.

Our man in Havana wrote: »

Aerial on the roof as explained many times before does not need a licence.

Indeed

Carawaystick

senordingdong wrote: »

Media license shouldn't change much, as it stands a pc monitor warrants a tv license.

No it does not, by that reckoning a video camera monitor would need a tv license

Same with many phones

ciano1

What happens after the digital switch over next year?
Will you need a TV license for, say, an old TV with just an old analog tuner and no saorview functionality .

Technically it'll be incapable of receiving any sort of signal alone and will be about as useful as a PC monitor

Our man in Havana

ciano1 wrote: »

What happens after the digital switch over next year?
Will you need a TV license for, say, an old TV with just an old analog tuner and no saorview functionality .

Technically it'll be incapable of receiving any sort of signal alone and will be about as useful as a PC monitor

I would be expecting an amendment in the law to cover that one.

MagicSean

ciano1 wrote: »

What happens after the digital switch over next year?
Will you need a TV license for, say, an old TV with just an old analog tuner and no saorview functionality .

Technically it'll be incapable of receiving any sort of signal alone and will be about as useful as a PC monitor

It can still receive a signal. There's just nothing for it to receive.

MagicSean

Just having a read of the Broadcasting Act 2009 and Section 146(3) would seem to give an unrestricted power of entry to inspectors.

dvpower

They should get rid of the licence altogether and incorporate it into the new household charge. Pretty much everyone has a TV or a media device that is soon to fall into the category.

We could bring the cost down for everyone if we didn't have to pay the current costs of collection and enforcement.

babsybaby01

I don't see why we have to pay for a tv licence...A licence is for rte television yet we get rte through sky so really we are paying for rte twice...And we all know how hard it is paying for it the first time

godwin

i have never had a TV license , the key to not getting caught is to never answer your door

paddyandy

Plenty of news on web and rte player for recorded playback progs.I threw mine out when i realised i could live without it.

Our man in Havana

Seanbeag1 wrote: »

It can still receive a signal. There's just nothing for it to receive.

Break the tuner out of it.

Our man in Havana

Seanbeag1 wrote: »

Just having a read of the Broadcasting Act 2009 and Section 146(3) would seem to give an unrestricted power of entry to inspectors.

They would still need a Garda if refused entry. Also it does not state that refusing entry is an offence.