Ariva 120 Combo File Dump Options etc

Johnboy1951

If this is not allowed my apologies .... am trying to split this subject from the main Ariva thread.
I have copied what I consider the relevant posts to this post, so yes it is very long.

****
I have been checking out saving and loading various files, such as new firmware and channels list etc.

In doing so I tried to find information in the manual about the various options presented, but failed to find the info ..... doesn't mean its not there

So if someone would be kind enough to point me to where I can read about the options under 'Upgrade by USB' I would be grateful.

The options I see are these ...


Allcode+Bootloader
HS11
maincode
radioback
120Combo
seeback
data1
data2
defaultdb
userdb

I can Dump a file, which presumably contains my channel settings. It works out at 4MB.

I can also dump a factory dump file, which comes to 1GB. By its size I am guessing this is the default factory 'fitted' firmware (and channel list if there is one).

So that I can be sure what I am doing I need the info to distinguish between the various options presented.

I cannot examine the contents of the different files as I have not yet found a means of viewing them in Linux.

A link to the info would be much appreciated.

regards.

STB wrote:

Are you trying to view/decompress the firmware and recompile?

It is not Linux based. Its TDS2. You would have to reverse engineer it first. The code isnt open source although i understand it does have GPL code within it - still it hasnt been released. You would need XSL, C/C++ and Jtagging expertise.

The code itself is written for the Ali chipsets and these Ferguson boxes OEM is Thomson AFAIK.

You might track down a few coders @ ariva.net.pl.

Sorry STB, I think I misled you.

Thanks for the response, which goes much further than I intend.

My intention in asking the question was to learn what those options mean in practical terms to a user. I accept that some may not be implemented on the 120, but obviously they should have some meaning.

It was not my intention to delve into the operating system/firmware.

It does seem though that it can be backed up to disk .... but that is just a guess of mine, as I have not seen an explanation of what that dump option actually does.


The files I would like to see using Linux are those that are visible and editable using one of the editors mentioned in this thread (for Windows) ..... '.abs' files.

I will try to get some info from the link you supplied, thanks.

Appreciate the response

regards

STB wrote:

ABS files. These are firmware/channel lists that the ALI M3602 chipset understands. The Ferguson is based on the ALI M3602B (a variation). There are loads of other boxes that use .ABS files as well as a result. In combo land the most common that use the same chipset (or the M3602A variation) are the Edision Argus and the Opticums (Globo).

Thank you for that info.

There is an ALI editor. There are also other tools like the Clarke Tech Editor that can take the data from Lyngsat for any satellite and then convert to ABS format. Its discussed earlier in the thread (I doubt anyone has tried it).

Those are Windows apps only as far as I can determine .... so of no immediate use to me unfortunately. (using Linux)

By the way the main factory DUMP would include the bootloader module (HS11), the maincode and channel lists. 1g still sound huge though - I would have thought it was a lot smaller. Its the ultimate backup for a doomsday scenario. It can be whacked on to a dead box with a R232 cable.

At least now I know that the HS11 is the bootloader and I was likely correct in my guess as to the contents of the factory dump.
I thought it prudent to take a copy in case of 'accident'

Thanks for that info too

Now to get the rest of the options filled in

Allcode+Bootloader ........... Firmware+channels+bootloader ?
HS11 ............................... Bootloader
maincode ......................... Firmware only?
radioback ......................... ?
120Combo ....................... ?
seeback ........................... ?
data1 .............................. ?
data2 .............................. ?
defaultdb ......................... ?
userdb ............................. ?

It may seem unnecessary, but I would like to know what the file I save should contain ... even if presently I am unable to edit it.
There appears to be a number of options, so it should be possible to import a saved file which only alters part of the setup.
Hope you know what I mean ...

Thanks again for the info

regards.

lensman

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

The options I see are these ...


Allcode+Bootloader ........... Firmware+channels+bootloader ?
HS11 ............................... Bootloader
maincode ......................... Firmware only?
radioback ......................... ?
120Combo ....................... ?
seeback ........................... ?
data1 .............................. ?
data2 .............................. ?
defaultdb ......................... ?
userdb ............................. ?
.

Good idea,...

STB

Allcode+Bootloader ........... All of the software+channels+bootloader
HS11 ............................... Bootloader
maincode ......................... Receiver's current software version
radioback ......................... radio channel list favorites
120Combo ....................... V1 Not Editable Main Dump perhaps
seeback ........................... V1 Not Editable
data1 .............................. V1 Not Editable
data2 .............................. V1 Not Editable
defaultdb ......................... v1 Not Editable
userdb ............................. current settings and channel lists archive can be used to sent to other box alone*

* means you do not need to send with firmware apparently.

Johnboy1951

Thanks STB.

What do the 'not editable' files contain in the way of information, and what use might be made of those files if saved?

Thanks again

lensman

STB wrote: »

Allcode+Bootloader ........... All of the software+channels+bootloader
HS11 ............................... Bootloader
maincode ......................... Receiver's current software version
radioback ......................... radio channel list favorites
120Combo ....................... V1 Not Editable Main Dump perhaps
seeback ........................... V1 Not Editable
data1 .............................. V1 Not Editable
data2 .............................. V1 Not Editable
defaultdb ......................... v1 Not Editable
userdb ............................. current settings and channel lists archive can be used to sent to other box alone*

* means you do not need to send with firmware apparently.

So regarding the channel lists,..we should be able to back these up to a USB memory stick, edit it with the editor, rename/save it as lets say "lennys_list" to the USB stick & use that to download to new boxes ?...the editor is quite confusing because as I said earlier, I did everything from the remote, I created 8 FAV menus & populated these with the channels of my choice, I then douwnloaded this to a USB stick & opened it in the editor,..guess what,..all the FAV names were gone,...they seem to have reverted back to 1 to 8 as before.

thisNthat

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

I can Dump a file, which presumably contains my channel settings. It works out at 4MB.

I can also dump a factory dump file, which comes to 1GB. By its size I am guessing this is the default factory 'fitted' firmware (and channel list if there is one).

Hi Johnboy1951, I'm trying to save my current channel settings (The Channel list I have and order I have them in etc) to USB as a backup so when I update the firmware again I can just reload my current channels but I'm a little lost with the terminology here and I don't want to wipe the box, Does Dump a file mean to delete it from the box or save it to USB?, Apologies about the simplicity of the question but I'm really new to all this so all/any info is greatly appreciated,
Thanks in advance

LordSutch

Dump means to dump the channel list (from your box) onto your USB stick!

I now have three boxes and I have lifted the channel list from one box and successfully installed it in the other two boxes a couple of times, as far as I can remember you then select 'Allcode+Bootloader' when downloading the channel list from your stick > onto the Ariva 120.

PS: I got this info from the main Ariva thread and its worked a treat so far, just one thing though, maybe I've been transferring the Firmware along with the channel listings between the three boxes? Not that it seems to have done any harm - they all work fine for all basic functions (I dont record on mine).

thisNthat

LordSutch wrote: »

Dump means to dump the channel list (from your box) onto your USB stick!

I now have three boxes and I have lifted the channel list from one box and successfully installed it in the other two boxes a couple of times, as far as I can remember you then select 'Allcode+Bootloader' when downloading the channel list from your stick > onto the Ariva 120.

PS: I got this info from the main Ariva thread and its worked a treat so far, just one thing though, maybe I've been transferring the Firmware along with the channel listings between the three boxes? Not that it seems to have done any harm - they all work fine for all basic functions (I dont record on mine).

Thanks for that info, Appreciated

Johnboy1951

LordSutch wrote: »

Dump means to dump the channel list (from your box) onto your USB stick!

I now have three boxes and I have lifted the channel list from one box and successfully installed it in the other two boxes a couple of times, as far as I can remember you then select 'Allcode+Bootloader' when downloading the channel list from your stick > onto the Ariva 120.

PS: I got this info from the main Ariva thread and its worked a treat so far, just one thing though, maybe I've been transferring the Firmware along with the channel listings between the three boxes? Not that it seems to have done any harm - they all work fine for all basic functions (I dont record on mine).

This is the reason for this thread ...... to find out exactly what is saved or loaded from each of the different options listed .... although some of those may not be activated on this device.

Still some way to go ......

LordSutch

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

This is the reason for this thread ...... to find out exactly what is saved or loaded from each of the different options listed .... although some of those may not be activated on this device.

Still some way to go ......

Yes indeed, this is the reason for this thread!
Not sure why you're stating this, but thanks for the input.

Glad I was of help to you 'thisNthat'.

Johnboy1951

LordSutch wrote: »

Yes indeed, this is the reason for this thread!
Not sure why you're stating this, but thanks for the input.

Glad I was of help to you 'thisNthat'.

Sorry - forgot to highlight your question

maybe I've been transferring the Firmware along with the channel listings between the three boxes?

I am hopeful that such questions can be covered by the info gathered in this thread.

I find the whole darned thing confusing and frustrating ... and I guess it shows sometimes.

Sorry if my last post rankled

LordSutch

You're fine there Johnboy1951 and I agree with you 100%, there is a lot about this machine that is unfinished, and the channel list/firmware transferral is a major query. Its a great machine for the money, with room for improvement re Firmware/USB updates!

I'm still waiting (on the main Ariva thread) to find out is there a list of proven Hard drives that are 100% compatible with the Ariva 120 HD, but there is no conclusive answer yet, and that's beginning to rankle me. I really want to buy a HDD but I can't be sure which models will work & which wont.

Hopefully we'll get the answers to all our questions in the end.

Johnboy1951

LordSutch wrote: »

You're fine there Johnboy1951 and I agree with you 100%, there is a lot about this machine that is unfinished, and the channel list/firmware transferral is a major query. Its a great machine for the money, with room for improvement re Firmware/USB updates!

I'm still waiting (on the main Ariva thread) to find out is there a list of proven Hard drives that are 100% compatible with the Ariva 120 HD, but there is no conclusive answer yet, and that's beginning to rankle me. I really want to buy a HDD but I can't be sure which models will work & which wont.

Hopefully we'll get the answers to all our questions in the end.

Not to go off topic here, but is there any indication that ANY HDD will not work with the Ariva, except those which do not have an external power source?
I haven't seen it in the manual - that I recall.

The manual does say that only one partition should be on the disk ..... but I have no problem using a flash disk with two partitions ... the first being for use by the Ariva and having a NTFS formatted filesystem. (my second partition is for a live version of Linux)
So if you do go ahead and buy a large external drive, you might want to partition it if it is too big for the Ariva to manage.
Other than that there are some external HDDs which have some 'special' proprietary interfaces ..... no ideas about those as I tend to avoid those 'popular' brands that are built to interface with Windows ... sometimes, it seems, to the exclusion of all others.

normal programming resumes

ShamoBuc

LordSutch wrote: »

I'm still waiting (on the main Ariva thread) to find out is there a list of proven Hard drives that are 100% compatible with the Ariva 120 HD, but there is no conclusive answer yet, and that's beginning to rankle me. I really want to buy a HDD but I can't be sure which models will work & which wont.

Hopefully we'll get the answers to all our questions in the end.

Well, I bought a Toshiba 750GB 2.5 inch External StorE Art HDD
from Amazon last week ( 60 euro delivered) and recorded both using the rec button and the time method without a problem, hope that helps.

FiresaleBuyer

Any chance someone could post a channel list file for the Ariva 120?

Johnboy1951

FiresaleBuyer wrote: »

Any chance someone could post a channel list file for the Ariva 120?

Check the main Ariva thread for that

NUTZZ

I wonder if anyone can shed any light for me on this, I'm trying to dump the channel list from box so I can edit them on Ariva Editor. I've used the dump file option and managed to open it in the editor, the only problem is all the channel names appear to come up in Chinese and unreadable characters like squares. Any ideas on what has gone wrong?

mdfire

NUTZZ wrote: »

I wonder if anyone can shed any light for me on this, I'm trying to dump the channel list from box so I can edit them on Ariva Editor. I've used the dump file option and managed to open it in the editor, the only problem is all the channel names appear to come up in Chinese and unreadable characters like squares. Any ideas on what has gone wrong?

I got that last night when I downloaded Ali Editor from random file sharing sites but when I actually downloaded the Ariva Editor from the Ferguson site it was in English.

http://www.ferguson-digital.eu/en/download/HD-Satellite-Receivers/ariva-200/ArivaEditor.zip/

NUTZZ

mdfire wrote: »

I got that last night when I downloaded Ali Editor from random file sharing sites but when I actually downloaded the Ariva Editor from the Ferguson site it was in English.

http://www.ferguson-digital.eu/en/download/HD-Satellite-Receivers/ariva-200/ArivaEditor.zip/

Brilliant, thanks for that, I'll give it a try!

NUTZZ

Does anyone know if it's possible to edit channels once they are in a specific favorite list in Ariva Editor? For example to change the channel order in favorites when you right click on a channel, it doesn't give any edit option like it does when you are in the 'all channels' list?

lensman

NUTZZ wrote: »

Does anyone know if it's possible to edit channels once they are in a specific favorite list in Ariva Editor? For example to change the channel order in favorites when you right click on a channel, it doesn't give any edit option like it does when you are in the 'all channels' list?

Yeah I tried this also,..no way to edit the order of the channels within a favorite menu,..however I did manage to re-order the channels in the (all services) menu & these changes were reflected in the favorites menu to some extent !!!,..of course you can edit the fav menu from the remote also....the ali editor is a bagash*t.

NUTZZ

lensman wrote: »

the ali editor is a bagash*t.

It really is! It's good for adding channels to favorites but beyond that its's no better than the remote! Don't know how you had the patience to organize your channel list or did you use a different program? Anyway it was much appreciated!

applewoodgo

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Sorry - forgot to highlight your question



I am hopeful that such questions can be covered by the info gathered in this thread.

I find the whole darned thing confusing and frustrating ... and I guess it shows sometimes.

Sorry if my last post rankled

Ferguson, the makers of this box, have all the answers to these questions. Wouldn't it save us all a lot of time and frustration if they would publish this.

mdfire

NUTZZ wrote: »

It really is! It's good for adding channels to favorites but beyond that its's no better than the remote! Don't know how you had the patience to organize your channel list or did you use a different program? Anyway it was much appreciated!

I found it quite useful. Moving channels up and down the list is really easy with - or + and that is much easier than using the remote. Deleting channels is also much quicker.

Johnboy1951

applewoodgo wrote: »

Ferguson, the makers of this box, have all the answers to these questions. Wouldn't it save us all a lot of time and frustration if they would publish this.

It sure would.

Johnboy1951

STB wrote: »

Allcode+Bootloader ........... All of the software+channels+bootloader
HS11 ............................... Bootloader
maincode ......................... Receiver's current software version
radioback ......................... radio channel list favorites
120Combo ....................... V1 Not Editable Main Dump perhaps
seeback ........................... V1 Not Editable
data1 .............................. V1 Not Editable
data2 .............................. V1 Not Editable
defaultdb ......................... v1 Not Editable
userdb ............................. current settings and channel lists archive can be used to sent to other box alone*

* means you do not need to send with firmware apparently.

Sorry for resurrecting this thread, but I wonder if there is any further clarification that can be added to the info above?

Some questions arise which could do with clarification .....

Can firmware be updated without interfering with the existing channel lists/favs etc? It seems not but of course if anyone knows differently the info would be valuable.

Are all channel lists -- tv list, radio list & favourites -- included in the userdb file? Do the radio listings etc have to be done separately?

It might be easier to approach this from the opposite angle ..... a user wishes to do X, so should use Y option etc.

I think it would be more helpful for users.

I haven't had time or access to my Ariva since my last post so I have not kept up to date on any new info which might shed further light on the options listed above.

If there is something more known now, maybe it could be added to this thread.


regards.

saorviewseeker

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Sorry for resurrecting this thread, but I wonder if there is any further clarification that can be added to the info above?

Some questions arise which could do with clarification .....

Can firmware be updated without interfering with the existing channel lists/favs etc? It seems not but of course if anyone knows differently the info would be valuable.

Are all channel lists -- tv list, radio list & favourites -- included in the userdb file? Do the radio listings etc have to be done separately?

It might be easier to approach this from the opposite angle ..... a user wishes to do X, so should use Y option etc.

I think it would be more helpful for users.

I haven't had time or access to my Ariva since my last post so I have not kept up to date on any new info which might shed further light on the options listed above.

If there is something more known now, maybe it could be added to this thread.


regards.

tvtrade have started selling these now and have a comprensive number of videos explaining how to install the unit plus channell list, firmware etc. Another video is due which may answer your questions. See them here
http://www.tvtrade.ie/ferguson-ariva-120-hd-combo.html

Open the video guides tab and scrool down to view the videos.

Ferguson of course have all the answers but for some reason they wish to keep this information to themselves. I have emailed them many times since last June without any reply. I emailed the two weeks ago after the launch of the new firmware, to see what this firmware is supposed to fix, but again, no response and I don't expect any.

You could try emailing tvtrade to see if they have the answers or wait for his other video which may contain your answers. I am hopeful that this company may enlighten us all and put to bed all our frustrations.

STB

Ah and I thought they wouldnt touch anything Ferguson.

Welcome to the cheap box revolution.

NUTZZ

STB wrote: »

Ah and I thought they wouldnt touch anything Ferguson.

Welcome to the cheap box revolution.

Welcome to the recession!

Johnboy1951

saorviewseeker wrote: »

tvtrade have started selling these now and have a comprensive number of videos explaining how to install the unit plus channell list, firmware etc. Another video is due which may answer your questions. See them here
http://www.tvtrade.ie/ferguson-ariva-120-hd-combo.html

Open the video guides tab and scrool down to view the videos.

Ferguson of course have all the answers but for some reason they wish to keep this information to themselves. I have emailed them many times since last June without any reply. I emailed the two weeks ago after the launch of the new firmware, to see what this firmware is supposed to fix, but again, no response and I don't expect any.

You could try emailing tvtrade to see if they have the answers or wait for his other video which may contain your answers. I am hopeful that this company may enlighten us all and put to bed all our frustrations.

Thanks for the heads-up .... will have to keep an eye on that to see if they produce a video on the subject.

The other subject I would like to get more info on is the use of the Ariva to play multicast streams on the LAN. This doesn't appear to have been dealt with yet either.

Thanks again for the heads-up

Tony

Apparently theres been a "Road to Damascus" change of view .:)

STB wrote: »

Ah and I thought they wouldnt touch anything Ferguson.

s_gr

Did they not slate the ariva 120 combos on their site a while back.... maybe their Eddison boxes werent that good after all......:D

saorviewseeker

s_gr wrote: »

Did they not slate the ariva 120 combos on their site a while back.... maybe their Eddison boxes werent that good after all......:D

They did slate the Ferguson and with good reason. The wise man he was, waited until Ferguson resolved the problems with the box. Why take on something which is going to cause endless aftersales complaints from irate customers. I was the foolish one who bought this box (BECAUSE IT WAS CHEAP) knowing it had some flaws and then suffered months of endless frustration trying to get answers to these issues both from Ferguson and the members of this forum. If it wasn't for this forum and the help that it provided, I would have been lost because Ferguson refused to reply to any of the queries I had about this box over the many months I had it. Wasn't it a pity that tvtrade didn't start selling these when they were launched. Look at the amount of time that this guy would have saved us with the many queries about setting up the box, installing firmware etc. He spent many hours making up these video tutorials explaining how to do all these things just a week after he started selling them. Good for him!! Maybe now we may get a hotline to Fergusons technical support through him. This guy is a serious seller with 246 Ariva 120's in stock, last time I checked. I would expect therefore, that technical info will start to flow through him from Ferguson. Here's hoping!!!!

Tony

Thats not going to happen as hes not an official Ferguson re seller and has no direct contact with Ferguson. The boxes he has now were bought from a re seller in Dublin. Even as he slated the box he was trying to obtain stock so I'm afraid it was not a case of waiting until the issues were resolved, Ferguson simply refused to sell to him.

saorviewseeker wrote: »

T I would expect therefore, that technical info will start to flow through him from Ferguson. Here's hoping!!!!

STB

saorviewseeker wrote: »

They did slate the Ferguson and with good reason. The wise man he was, waited until Ferguson resolved the problems with the box. Why take on something which is going to cause endless aftersales complaints from irate customers. I was the foolish one who bought this box (BECAUSE IT WAS CHEAP) knowing it had some flaws and then suffered months of endless frustration trying to get answers to these issues both from Ferguson and the members of this forum. If it wasn't for this forum and the help that it provided, I would have been lost because Ferguson refused to reply to any of the queries I had about this box over the many months I had it. Wasn't it a pity that tvtrade didn't start selling these when they were launched. Look at the amount of time that this guy would have saved us with the many queries about setting up the box, installing firmware etc. He spent many hours making up these video tutorials explaining how to do all these things just a week after he started selling them. Good for him!! Maybe now we may get a hotline to Fergusons technical support through him. This guy is a serious seller with 246 Ariva 120's in stock, last time I checked. I would expect therefore, that technical info will start to flow through him from Ferguson. Here's hoping!!!!

Far be for me to point out that certain shops were stuck with medium amounts of expensive stock because the 120 came in at a very low price point. Perhaps it was just coincedence that certain online shops tried to belittle the Fergusons. This always puzzled me as they after all built on the same chipset as the Edisions.

The thing is that the issues with the 120s were sorted out in no small part by the people who have the direct line into Ferguson Poland and that is not TV trade but Satelitte.ie (thats the guy who posted after you). So as you say yourself "If it wasn't for this forum and the help that it provided, I would have been lost because Ferguson refused to reply to any of the queries". I think you will agree that Tony is the main contributor to that 175k+ hits thread. If you want to up someone, its him.

I don't see tvtrade providing such support for "their" boxes here. Do you ?

They were quick to belittle the Fergusons yet now have "large" stocks ? Do you think the 175k plus thread influenced this decision ? I am sure the boss Ro was asking questions why popular boxes weren't being stocked!

One final comment. I cant help but think that you are in some way connected to TVtrade ? I certainly hope you aren't. You do seem to be giving them the hard sell.

I know times are hard but there is no reason for this behaviour. Just as well I dont sell boxes!!!

NewHillel

STB wrote: »

One final comment. I cant help but think that you are in some way connected to TVtrade ? I certainly hope you aren't. You do seem to be giving them the hard sell.

Certainly reads that way.

saorviewseeker

STB wrote: »

Far be for me to point out that certain shops were stuck with medium amounts of expensive stock because the 120 came in at a very low price point. Perhaps it was just coincedence that certain online shops tried to belittle the Fergusons. This always puzzled me as they after all built on the same chipset as the Edisions.

The thing is that the issues with the 120s were sorted out in no small part by the people who have the direct line into Ferguson Poland and that is not TV trade but Satelitte.ie (thats the guy who posted after you). So as you say yourself "If it wasn't for this forum and the help that it provided, I would have been lost because Ferguson refused to reply to any of the queries". I think you will agree that Tony is the main contributor to that 175k+ hits thread. If you want to up someone, its him.

I don't see tvtrade providing such support for "their" boxes here. Do you ?

They were quick to belittle the Fergusons yet now have "large" stocks ? Do you think the 175k plus thread influenced this decision ? I am sure the boss Ro was asking questions why popular boxes weren't being stocked!

One final comment. I cant help but think that you are in some way connected to TVtrade ? I certainly hope you aren't. You do seem to be giving them the hard sell.

I know times are hard but there is no reason for this behaviour. Just as well I dont sell boxes!!!

I am not connected in any way to tvtrade, I am rather someone who bought one of these boxes and struggled like many others on this forum trying to find solutions to the boxe's problems. Emailing Ferguson many times proved fruitless. I mentioned this a couple of times on this thread; the last was in connection with the firmware and questioned, what was it intended to fix??? This wasn't answered by Tony or any body else on this forum. I did expect Tony might have acknowledged this and offered to use his influence with Ferguson to get the answers. Sadly, so far this hasn't happened.

However, learning that tvtrade was,

1. Now selling these boxes.

2. The way he sets up video tutorials for all that he supplies.

3. His large stock levels on all their products suggested to me that this company was a serious player and carried some clought in the industry. Someone who might grab the attention of Ferguson's tech support; someone who could get answers.

These were the reasons for my optimism and the post. However, it seems according to Tony's reply that it was a misjudged ray of hope on my part. According to him this company have no direct links to Ferguson, so Ferguson technical support from this company is unlightly. Hopes dashed, ah well!!! can't blame me for hoping.

STB

I just had a read of your previous posts.

1. To see what your issues are.
2. To satisfy my suspicious nature regarding posters with low count dissing certain companies and promoting other ones. I wasn't the first to check either. So it must be clear.

Regarding your issues with watching other channels whilst recording.

The Ferguson is a single tuner DVB-T and a Single tuner DVB-S2 box. If you want more functionality akin to Sky+, buy a Technomate 7000 range combo or CTech Et9000 combo. They are about 5 times the cost of a Ferguson.

I am not going to repeat what I have already posted. Its clear that there is no pleasing some people.

TVtrade as far as I know are a trade wholesaler and do not deal with end users. Otherwise they would be displaying their prices including VAT as required under Consumer Law for retail sales.

Tony

I did not reply to your question because I simply did not know the answer as Ferguson do not issue changelogs , not good on their part I agree . I make them aware of issues that are reported here but really its up to them as to how they prioritise resolving this.

Apologies to the OP for the off topic posts which have little to do with the subject of the thread . Perhaps Marc or another mod can move these to the main ferguson thread.

saorviewseeker wrote: »

This wasn't answered by Tony or any body else on this forum. I did expect Tony might have acknowledged this and offered to use his influence with Ferguson to get the answers. Sadly, so far this hasn't happened.