Ryanair ends Dublin to Cork/Kerry services

bk

Ryanair is ending their Dublin to Cork and Dublin to Kerry routes:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0823/ryanair.html

However, passengers have been voting with their feet and switching to the convenience of driving 2.5 hours between Dublin and Cork.

Makes sense. It almost takes as long to get from Cork to Dublin by plane due to all the security.

My only question is why their still aren't any private direct non stop bus services between Cork and Dublin *.

* Yes I know this route hasn't been licensed by the government yet, but why not?

Kumsheen

bk wrote: »

Ryanair is ending their Dublin to Cork and Dublin to Kerry routes:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0823/ryanair.html



Makes sense. It almost takes as long to get from Cork to Dublin by plane due to all the security.

My only question is why their still aren't any private direct non stop bus services between Cork and Dublin *.

* Yes I know this route hasn't been licensed by the government yet, but why not?

I can't understand why this has not been licenced either, a couple of guesses would be:

• Protect Irish rail from better competition (Bus would be faster and cheaper)
• Protect Cork Airport and it's Air links to the UK and Europe. If there was a direct express bus to Dublin Airport from Cork for less than the price of parking a car in Cork Airport, a lot of people might choose to fly from Dublin instead, to avail of cheaper fares and more frequent flights.

Judgement Day

Perfectly good rail line between Dublin and Cork and encouraging wasteful competition benefits who exactly?

LXFlyer

People are assuming there have been licence applications for such a service - maybe the operators haven't applied, judging that they need the custom from the intermediate stops to make the service viable.

It's a tough call to make - would there be enough custom for both a non-stop and a stopping service to be viable?

I don't know what the situation is, but everyone seems to be making an assumption that someone has applied for such a service.

LXFlyer

Just to amuse myself I went back to 2005 to see what Michael O'Leary had to say prior to the launch of the new route....

I suspect he may wish to eat his words.

munchkin_utd

And just to remind us, Aer Arann had 9 services a day before Ryanair came in.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=3387069&postcount=5

I believe that there is still a use for a Cork - Dublin flight but really at the periphery of the day with primary users being people like myself living abroad who cant get a daily direct flight to Cork but would connect via Dublin on the early morning/ late evening flights should the cost be similar to the train (+ with guarantee of the connection just to seal the deal)

When Aer Arann were doing the route I connected with them and same with Ryanair, because unfortunately the best way of getting in or out of Dublin airport is still to fly - despite a multi billion euro motorway and 100s of millions of euro spent on train and track !!

bk

Judgement Day wrote: »

Perfectly good rail line between Dublin and Cork and encouraging wasteful competition benefits who exactly?

People like me who want to pay €25 rather then €74 !!

What, is Irish Rail afraid of a little competition?

lxflyer wrote: »

It's a tough call to make - would there be enough custom for both a non-stop and a stopping service to be viable?

I don't know what the situation is, but everyone seems to be making an assumption that someone has applied for such a service.

Certainly enough custom for a direct non stop service. In fact if it cost €25 return, you would probably have people sitting on the roof!!

If there is enough custom for three different bus companies every hour between Dublin and Galway, then there is certainly enough custom for one direct service.

Probably also enough custom for a stopping service. As it is Bus Eireann often lays on a second bus, which becomes a direct non stop bus, when there is high demand at peak times and that is without any certainty that you will get a direct bus.

As a Corkonian living in Cork, lay on a direct bus and I guarantee it will be full.

Any private coach company would jump at running such a route. There really is no doubt.

munchkin_utd wrote: »

When Aer Arann were doing the route I connected with them and same with Ryanair, because unfortunately the best way of getting in or out of Dublin airport is still to fly - despite a multi billion euro motorway and 100s of millions of euro spent on train and track !!

Yup, obviously if you are already at the airport and past security, then it is quicker to fly to Cork.

BenShermin

Bloody Ruinair, for around 50 years there has been flights between Dublin and Cork and it only took Ruinair 6 years to destroy the route:mad:!

I never once believed Michael O'Leary's statements claiming that he was only in competition with Iarnród Éireann on the Dublin to Cork route. I've always believed and still believe that he was trying to undercut Aer Arann's business on what was for them an obviously viable route prior to Ryanair serving it. In undercutting Aer Arann on a very viable domestic route I believe O'Leary felt that this would eat into Aer Arann's profits which would have otherwise been invested in competing with Ryanair on the real bread and butter routes, Ireland to the UK.

The evidence speaks for itself imo, when Ryanair eventually destroyed Aer Arann on this route and they cut their service completely Ryanair immediately cut their service from five flights each way a day to just two flights. This screams the obviousness that Ryanair had no real viable business whatsoever flying a 187 seater plane 5 times a day between the two cities and I believe that he had motives other than profitability for doing so.


Whatever about my conspiracy about Ryanair on the route, one things for sure the public transport user is now left with very little choice on the
Dublin to Cork route and fares could rise as a result. We are left with train service that can be expensive if not booked 3 weeks in advance, and cheap bus services that take 4 bloody hours!! Not to mention that I can get from Dublin to Rosslare at 4 in the morning by bus but I can't get from Dublin to the second biggest centre of population in the Republic on public transport between 9pm and 7am, it's simply not good enough!

Leo Varadkar needs to seriously look at this. As a stop gap there should be non-stop Bus services between Dublin and Cork, it will keep Irish Rail on their toes and stop railway fares from going too high.

As munchkin utd says there still probably is a demand for a air service between Dublin and Cork, I believe Aer Lingus Regional would be the perfect carrier for it as they only have 72 seats making it viable and could they could sell the likes of New York to Cork tickets via Dublin for example with the customers bags being checked straight through to Cork, unlike the Ryanair connection where one had to check in again at the bottleneck that is Dublin Airport.

I don't have much faith in Varadkar though tbh. I think we're looking at an extension of Dempsey's Minister for Roads ideal .

LXFlyer

Well perhaps someone should get a Dail question asked as to whether anyone has applied to the NTA for such a licence. I remain to be absolutely convinced that anyone has because the NTA seem to have pretty much got through most of the backlog of applications at this stage.

It's very easy for posters to say "oh of course they'll fill it", but it is a different thing for an operator to take the risk (for example) of doubling the existing service level by offering bi-hourly non-stop services alongside the existing bi-hourly Bus Eireann and Aircoach stopping services.

Why has neither of the existing operators added earlier or later services - people need to ask that question too. Maybe they don't think there is a sufficient demand.

Much of the demand on the Galway, Belfast and other routes stems from people using Dublin Airport. Cork does not have that same level of usage as they have a reasonable number of direct flights themselves.

bk

Perhaps O'Leary heard about a Cork to Dublin direct bus service being licensed soon. We can hope.

I'm a big fan of open competition but I agree with BenShermin that this was Ryanair looking to kill off AerArann. In this case I'd like to see the government license the Cork to Dublin route to a single airline, guaranteeing no competition from Ryanair.

In this case, even with only one airline it would still be under competitive pressure from the motorway, rail and hopefully some day direct coach.

This is a clear example of competitive failure and the government should step in due to market failure.

invinciblePRSTV

bk wrote: »

In this case I'd like to see the government license the Cork to Dublin route to a single airline, guaranteeing no competition from Ryanair.

If it's not a PSO then surely there is no need for the government to be licensing anything?

Surely it's inevitable some carrier like ALR will step in and fill the gap.

LXFlyer

Just to further the point - earlier this year people complained of no bus getting into Cork from Limerick or Galway before 9am. Yet Citylink had such a service but then withdrew it because insufficient demand existed!

It's not quite as crystal clear as people seem to think.

n97 mini

The market needs to look after itself, without subsidies. Simple as.

The motorway has all the cards at the moment, and barring a miracle I can't see that changing.

BenShermin wrote: »

Bloody Ruinair, for around 50 years there has been flights between Dublin and Cork and it only took Ruinair 6 years to destroy the route:mad:!

And the motorway has nothing to do with it? If it didn't then we can expect to see Aer Arann back on the route again.

invinciblePRSTV

n97 mini wrote: »

The market needs to look after itself, without subsidies. Simple as.

You say that, then you say this:

n97 mini wrote: »

The motorway has all the cards at the moment, and barring a miracle I can't see that changing.

It cost the guts of a billion to build the M8 alone, you realise most of this came out of the public purse right?

So if we can subsidise road building then why can't we subsidise public transport?

markpb

lxflyer wrote: »

Just to further the point - earlier this year people complained of no bus getting into Cork from Limerick or Galway before 9am. Yet Citylink had such a service but then withdrew it because insufficient demand existed!

Perhaps they're working on it already but this is why I'd like to see the NTA develop a combined journey planner bringing together timetable data for Irish Rail, Bus Eireann, Dublin Bus and private bus operators. Technically it's not difficult and it would allow people to spot journeys not possible on BE or IE (many people might not be aware that CityLink exist or that Aircoach offer IC journeys).

bk

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

If it's not a PSO then surely there is no need for the government to be licensing anything?

Surely it's inevitable some carrier like ALR will step in and fill the gap.

The point is will Aerlingus or AerArann fill the gap, knowing that at anytime Ryanair could just start up the route again just to drive them out of business.

It doesn't need to be a PSO or subsidised, just some sort of guarantee of not being wiped out by Ryanair.

Think about it, isn't it crazy that you need to get a license to run a bus from Cork to Dublin and wait years for the license, but just anyone can run an airline on the same route!!

trellheim

Even if someone from Dublin wants to do business in Cork at 9am and travel down in the morning, they can't do it by Air, bus or rail. This is something Cork chamber should be crying out for IMHO.

LXFlyer

markpb wrote: »

Perhaps they're working on it already but this is why I'd like to see the NTA develop a combined journey planner bringing together timetable data for Irish Rail, Bus Eireann, Dublin Bus and private bus operators. Technically it's not difficult and it would allow people to spot journeys not possible on BE or IE (many people might not be aware that CityLink exist or that Aircoach offer IC journeys).

Blaming the curtailment of the service that is still operating later throughout the day on the fact that people might not know about it is stretching things a bit Mark.

Citylink advertise quite heavily and are well known in the region. The reality is that the particular early morning service into Cork was not used by sufficient numbers.

The www.transportforireland.ie site will be the location for all public transport information in due course - which will be a central database as I understand it.

As I say I'm certainly not as convinced as others here there is a sufficient market for a non-stop service on Dublin-Cork as the other routes.

Drimnagh Road

I for one will miss been able to fly between Dublin and Cork.

The new trains on the route are slower, ride terrible and have worse catering than the {old} mk3s they replaced. Some of the services are operated by three carriage 22000s.

It still takes 3 hours 45 minutes by rail to get to Farranfore, and the road journey is still long, Motorway to Limerick, then a National route beyond into Kerry.

Actually, I remember last year I raced the train from Dublin to Cork, I flew down. Enjoyed that particular trip. Report and pictures on IRN here.

n97 mini

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

It cost the guts of a billion to build the M8 alone, you realise most of this came out of the public purse right?

So if we can subsidise road building then why can't we subsidise public transport?

Because the road provides so much more than public transport. All private transport requires road. Virtually all freight transport requires roads.

We can survive without trains or planes. We can't survive without roads.

Judgement Day

I love the posters who come on here suggesting that competition will keep IE on their toes - what evidence is there of this? IE is a semi-state company with no interest in competing for anything. Competition comes along IE will roll over and use it as an excuse to run the railway down even more.
Ireland has had a ridiculous US style, love affair with regional air services for about four decades now and it was, and is, totally unsustainable, just as our motorway network is OTT for such a sparsely populated country.

n97 mini

trellheim wrote: »

Even if someone from Dublin wants to do business in Cork at 9am and travel down in the morning, they can't do it by Air, bus or rail. This is something Cork chamber should be crying out for IMHO.

What business person doesn't own a car?

Drimnagh Road

Ryanair pulling out of Dublin-Cork means we have just lost the quickest, most punctual and hellfire way to get to the Rebel county. Looks like it's back to Irish Rail {i.e. Horse & Cart} for trips down South from now on.

bk

lxflyer wrote: »

As I say I'm certainly not as convinced as others here there is a sufficient market for a non-stop service on Dublin-Cork as the other routes.

I honestly don't know how you can say that. Galway/Dublin can support three hourly bus services and train, yet you don't think our two largest cities couldn't sustain a similar level of service? !!!!

As a Corkonian living in Dublin with many similar friends, I can assure you such a service would be massively popular. The proof is already there with Bus Eireann having to lay on extra unadvertised buses at peak times and that is when you have no guarantee of a direct service, you could end up on the bus for over 4 hours.

Judgement Day wrote:

I love the posters who come on here suggesting that competition will keep IE on their toes - what evidence is there of this? IE is a semi-state company with no interest in competing for anything. Competition comes along IE will roll over and use it as an excuse to run the railway down even more.

And what is the problem with that as long as bus coaches can provide an adequate service and no more tax payer money is wasted on rail.

markpb

lxflyer wrote: »

Blaming the curtailment of the service that is still operating later throughout the day on the fact that people might not know about it is stretching things a bit Mark.

That's not what I was suggesting at all. I was merely saying that it would be great if there was a single place to plan a journey. Some people might not have been aware of the specific departure you were talking about but I'm not saying that a properly integrated journey planner would have saved it

homerjay2005

i got my cancellation emails yesterday for flights ive booked in september. got them for 26euro return, if i get the train now it will take 3 times as long and cost €70.

disaster, the train set up to kerry is crap. ive done door to door kerry to dublin via kerry airport in about 90 minutes, the last time i flew up the flight took 17 minutes.

Judgement Day

bk wrote: »

And what is the problem with that as long as bus coaches can provide an adequate service and no more tax payer money is wasted on rail.

Despite all my cynicism I remain a committed proponent of rail for the future rather than road based systems. I'm not some "Guckian" type individual talking of reopening every country branchline that ever existed but I do believe in retaining and developing what we have left. The first stepping stone in any rebirth of Irish railways has to be the removal of CIE from the equation as it is difficult to see any future with their involvement. The motorway age is over but nobody has told our leaders and Ireland came about 50 years too late to the party anyway.

Onthe3rdDay

n97 mini wrote: »

What business person doesn't own a car?

More than you imagine. Plus Driving up and down to cork eats up 5 hours of a workday. If you're on another type of transport you'd be surprised how much work you can get done with a laptop and mobile

bk

Judgement Day wrote: »

Despite all my cynicism I remain a committed proponent of rail for the future rather than road based systems. I'm not some "Guckian" type individual talking of reopening every country branchline that ever existed but I do believe in retaining and developing what we have left. The first stepping stone in any rebirth of Irish railways has to be the removal of CIE from the equation as it is difficult to see any future with their involvement. The motorway age is over but nobody has told our leaders and Ireland came about 50 years too late to the party anyway.

Let me be clear, I'm no rail hater. In fact I don't particularly love/hate any form of transport. I'm in favor of getting people from A to B in the most affordable, efficient and environmentally friendly manner.

I'm a big fan of rail based public mass transport in our cities, but I have my doubts about the need and sustainability of intercity rail in a country as small as Ireland.

I'm not saying shut down intercity rail. I'm saying let's stop giving it such massive subsidies, which are simply no longer needed. Allow private bus coach services to develop and let rail compete with them on an equal footing.

I was shocked at your initial post about why do we need to duplicate existing infrastructure with bus coaches. That smacks of protectionism at its worst.

We need to maximise the massive investment in our motorway network that we now have and that means allowing private coach operators use it. If IrishRail can't compete with that, then frankly tough, they have no reason to exist.

-Chris-

Thread moved to Aviation & Aircraft. Their Charter now applies.

BenShermin

n97 mini wrote: »

And the motorway has nothing to do with it? If it didn't then we can expect to see Aer Arann back on the route again.

No the motorway had nothing to do with it. Ryanair were down to two flights a day before the M8 motorway was even finished. The simple fact is that flying a Boeing 737 on such a small domestic route was never going to be viable.

On the Dublin to Cork route Ryanair's Boeing 737 used more fuel taxiing and taking off the Runway at Dublin Airport than Aer Arann's ATR72 aircraft used for the entire Dublin to Cork flight. Ryanair was never going to make a profit on this route.


I'm very cynical of IxFlyer's posts here. Methinks you need to sit in Bus Aras of a busy afternoon to see Bus Éireann laying on extra buses to meet demand on the Dublin to Cork route especially during student season. Certainly you're almost guarenteed extra buses on the 1600 and 1800 service every Friday and on the 1600 and 1800 every Sunday.

I think your examples trying to prove there's no demand for extra buses to Cork are very unfair also. Citylink are a private operator and therefore will not run an unprofitable service from Galway/Limerick to Cork before 9am. However Bus Éireann are a public service, and if they can run buses all hours to bloody Rosslare they certainly CAN and should provide a service to Cork after 1800 in the evening!!

Indeed it's not as crystal clear as people think:).

L1011

n97 mini wrote: »

What business person doesn't own a car?

A lot of them don't want to be shattered from a 240km drive before a business meeting. Even for those of us battle hardened by 80,000km a year get a bit wrecked doing a haul to Cork and back.

Same reason that I doubt a single person in First on the Enterprise doesn't own a car.

LXFlyer

BenShermin wrote: »

No the motorway had nothing to do with it. Ryanair were down to two flights a day before the M8 motorway was even finished. The simple fact is that flying a Boeing 737 on such a small domestic route was never going to be viable.

On the Dublin to Cork route Ryanair's Boeing 737 used more fuel taxiing and taking off the Runway at Dublin Airport than Aer Arann's ATR72 aircraft used for the entire Dublin to Cork flight. Ryanair was never going to make a profit on this route.

I'm very cynical of IxFlyer's posts here. Methinks you need to sit in Bus Aras of a busy afternoon to see Bus Éireann laying on extra buses to meet demand on the Dublin to Cork route especially during student season. Certainly you're almost guarenteed extra buses on the 1600 and 1800 service every Friday and on the 1600 and 1800 every Sunday.

I think your examples trying to prove there's no demand for extra buses to Cork are very unfair also. Citylink are a private operator and therefore will not run an unprofitable service from Galway/Limerick to Cork before 9am. However Bus Éireann are a public service, and if they can run buses all hours to bloody Rosslare they certainly CAN and should provide a service to Cork after 1800 in the evening!!

Indeed it's not as crystal clear as people think:).

I am not trying to "prove" anything - I am suggesting that there may not be sufficient demand for an all day all week non-stop service. You've listed two departures on two days. That does not mean the demand is there all week. The bus companies, if they are going to do this, need to get the load factors to make them pay.

I just find it very difficult to believe that if someone wants to do so they would not have applied to do so already and that if they did the NTA have not by now got through the backlog.

I used the example of the early morning Galway/Limerick/Cork service to point out that such services may not have quite the same appeal as people might think.

Bus Eireann expressway services are not subsidised and as such are run on a commercial basis. The services to/from Rosslare at all hours are primarily there to offer connections to/from the airport, something Dublin/Cork does not need. Dublin/Cork is shared by Bus Eireann and Aircoach who both operate their services on a commercial basis.

And it's not Ixflyer - it's LXflyer!

Tenger

BenShermin wrote: »

.....Ryanair were down to two flights a day before the M8 motorway was even finished. The simple fact is that flying a Boeing 737 on such a small domestic route was never going to be viable.

On the Dublin to Cork route Ryanair's Boeing 737 used more fuel taxiing and taking off the Runway at Dublin Airport than Aer Arann's ATR72 aircraft used for the entire Dublin to Cork flight. Ryanair was never going to make a profit on this route.......

I am of the opinion that FR underbid RE for the PSO routes purely to stop RE getting that revenue. A 189 seater to Kerry is overkill, even with 2 RE services there would be less seats per day. I think a double daily RE service would offer choices to the public (and hopefully be viable without Govt subsidy)

munchkin_utd

The train service offers an hourly service and gets you to Dublin by 9.50 and you have a measly 10 1/2 hours to do your business before the last train goes back to Dublin.
If that's not enough time to seal the deal then I give up!

L1011

Tenger wrote: »

I am of the opinion that FR underbid RE for the PSO routes purely to stop RE getting that revenue.

RE were of that opinion also. Led to an O'Leary rant about "airlines relying on government subsidies" when of course his takes in millions of same every year from regional governments paying hello money for their local airport and so on.

MO'L is probably the biggest hypocrite outside of politics.

adcom

Thanks for the post.

What I find really interesting is that none of you have been mentioning the cancellation of the Dublin Kerry route. I used to regularly take this flight until last year when Ryanair changed the Kerry Dublin flight time from 6.15 in the morning (was perfect, was at my desk on St Stephens green at 8.20) to 10.20 and then changed the last Dublin Kerry flight from 9.30pm to 4.15! Straight away with those flight times you have cut out the people who are travelling Dublin to Kerry at weekends. Shockingly enough my boss wouldn’t appreciate if I was 3 hours late on a Monday and was leaving 2 hours early on a Friday to make these flights. And if you go to Kerry for the weekend I assume that you would prefer no leave at 8.15pm rather than 11.20 am on the Sunday.

So yes, I agree that Ryanair tried to kill this route. They exited negotiations for the PSO because they say the government was being unrealistic with the money being offered. I really hope that Aer Arran take this route up again, it’s a shame to waste this service. I also know several people who have used it when returing from long haul flights- I miss the days where there was a lunch time flight, perfect for connecting after red eye flights.

In relation to Irish rail I was always much happier to pay for the flight rather than give IR the €70 odd its costs on the train. Yes, there are some cheap trains but only if you are booking a month in advance. And at the end of the day the train is still 4 long hours. With flights have done door to door in 90 min as opposed to 5-5 and a half hours on the train.

Its also a small bit short sighted considering that the international headquarters of Fexco, Kerry Group and dairy master are based in Kerry. The reason that Ryanair fly Kerry to Frankfurt Hann is because of Lieberr cranes in Killarney so these industries are obviously a market.

n97 mini

MYOB wrote: »

A lot of them don't want to be shattered from a 240km drive before a business meeting.

A drive that's a tad over 2 hours is hardly shattering, but if people do find it hard going they could go down the night before and book into a hotel.

I used to do Cork and back in the same day, back when the motorway ended at Port Laoise.

n97 mini

adcom wrote: »

What I find really interesting is that none of you have been mentioning the cancellation of the Dublin Kerry route.

That's subsidised by the tax-payer and it has just been announced that Aer Arann have been awarded the contract.

bk

lxflyer wrote: »

I am not trying to "prove" anything - I am suggesting that there may not be sufficient demand for an all day all week non-stop service. You've listed two departures on two days. That does not mean the demand is there all week. The bus companies, if they are going to do this, need to get the load factors to make them pay.

Again please explain how Dublin/Galway can sustain three separate hourly bus services (BE, GoBus and Citylink), two of them direct services, plus a train service, yet Cork/Dublin can't even sustain one direct bus service?

If IrishRail can afford to run an eight carriage hourly service, then surely it is logical that some private bus company could run just one bus per hour at €25 return?

It just doesn't make any logical sense.

LXFlyer

bk wrote: »

Again please explain how Dublin/Galway can sustain three separate hourly bus services (BE, GoBus and Citylink), two of them direct services, plus a train service, yet Cork/Dublin can't even sustain one direct bus service?

If IrishRail can afford to run an eight carriage hourly service, then surely it is logical that some private bus company could run just one bus per hour at €25 return?

It just doesn't make any logical sense.

Well then explain to me why it would seem no one has applied to do so if it is so obvious that it will make money?

Bus Eireann certainly don't appear to have done so looking at their facebook discussions page (as of 4 months ago they were looking at how best to serve the route), and I would imagine that had Aircoach, Citylink or another operator done so we would have heard about it by now.

I'm not saying that it wouldn't be a bad thing, but on the face of it looks like the operators do not seem to think it is a runner.

adcom

n97 mini wrote: »

That's subsidised by the tax-payer and it has just been announced that Aer Arann have been awarded the contract.

Didnt see that, excellent.

In realtion to other posts it does show how ryanair mismanaged (purpously?) this route- had they done the same to the cork route?

highlydebased

I'm sure there have been applications to operate non stop buses to Cork but the licensing process is protracted and suffers huge backlogs...

There might be an 8 carraige train running but bear in mind how many of those pax are travelling to intermediate stations or Limk Jctn for Limerick?

LXFlyer

highlydebased wrote: »

I'm sure there have been applications to operate non stop buses to Cork but the licensing process is protracted and suffers huge backlogs...

There might be an 8 carraige train running but bear in mind how many of those pax are travelling to intermediate stations or Limk Jctn for Limerick?

Not anymore - the NTA are now processing licence applications fairly quickly and have I understand, got through the old DoT backlog.

That is why I am not so sure that the operators are as enthusiastic.

L1011

n97 mini wrote: »

A drive that's a tad over 2 hours is hardly shattering, but if people do find it hard going they could go down the night before and book into a hotel.

I used to do Cork and back in the same day, back when the motorway ended at Port Laoise.

Time is irrelevant. Driving 240km isn't a task that leaves you feeling mentally refreshed.

Victor

bk wrote: »

I honestly don't know how you can say that. Galway/Dublin can support three hourly bus services and train, yet you don't think our two largest cities couldn't sustain a similar level of service? !!!!

But none of them are making money. Someone will eventually flinch.

roundymac

240km Dub-Cork direct is a lot more costly than Dub-Galway, that's more than likely why bus companies want to have various stops along the way to maximize their loads.

Judgement Day

Victor wrote: »

But none of them are making money. Someone will eventually flinch.

And in the meantime the taxpayer funds all this wasteful competition and patients lie on hospital trollys, but at least we are all worshipping the great God of Competition. :rolleyes:

LXFlyer

Judgement Day wrote: »

Victor wrote: »

But none of them are making money. Someone will eventually flinch.

And in the meantime the taxpayer funds all this wasteful competition and patients lie on hospital trollys, but at least we are all worshipping the great God of Competition. :rolleyes:

How exactly? All of the bus services on the Dublin/Galway route are commercial operations - there is no subsidy.

Judgement Day

lxflyer wrote: »

How exactly? All of the bus services on the Dublin/Galway route are commercial operations - there is no subsidy.

Bus Eireann is a State company and IE is a State company and they are competing with each other on the route - one it's a dupication of services/resources and two which ever company wins the business the other loses it and who picks up the bill? The other private carriers on the route are also drawing potential passengers and revenue away from the State carriers and we have competition but who really benefits. This kind of free for all is very wasteful, environmentally questionable etc.etc. but I don't expect it to stop as those in power seem unable to understand the concept of sustainability.

Hannibal

Judgement Day wrote: »

Bus Eireann is a State company and IE is a State company and they are competing with each other on the route - one it's a dupication of services/resources and two which ever company wins the business the other loses it and who picks up the bill? The other private carriers on the route are also drawing potential passengers and revenue away from the State carriers and we have competition but who really benefits. This kind of free for all is very wasteful, environmentally questionable etc.etc. but I don't expect it to stop as those in power seem unable to understand the concept of sustainability.

The state owning a share in EI and EI being a "State Company" are two completely different things