An overtaking technicality

sflandango

Hello all, I have a question about overtaking. What happens if you begin to overtake on a broken white line but come back onto your side of the road on a solid white line. Are you deemed to have broken the law? That is to say that you are overtaking and as you are on the move the white line becomes solid before you cross back to your own side of the road.

Nissan doctor

If that situation happens then you weren't looking properly at the road ahead before you started overtaking or you completely misjudged the manover.

Either way the overtake has to begin and end on a broken white line.

vectra

I would say you were on the wrong side of the road where a continuous white line existed.

johnners2981

I'm guessing this is for a driving test or something? Cause does it really matter otherwise? Never heard of anyone getting pulled over for it

sflandango

I was overtaking at night and i passed two cars. The one in front was driven by an off duty Garda. I overtook on a broken white line but it seems that the line changes to a continuous white line on part of this straight. I could see a car coming about a mile up the road and I know the area well so I knew i could overtake. I dont actually know why there is a continuous white line in the middle of this straight. Anyway the off duty Garda rang ahead to the next town and got them to stop me. She arrived a minute later and gave me an unholy bollocking. It was all fairly new to me cos Ive been driving for 8 years and never been stopped for anything before. I feel like I'v been hard done by but maybe I'll have to just take it on the chin or else i could end up with 4 points. What do ye think? :mad:

EPM

There was a continuous white line. You crossed it. It doesn't matter if you know the area well you still crossed it.

There could be any number of reasons why it changes to a continuous line such as driveways, camber change.

Take it on the chin:)

Nissan doctor

You can't know the road that well if you didn't where the overtaking spots were.

As above, there will have been a reason for the solid line at that point, dip in the road, junction, entrance of some sort maybe.


As for the garda giving you a hard time....these are the people who have to see people mangled in cars and call to families houses with bad news after accidents don't forget.

sflandango

Yes I do accept that the Gardaí see accidents etc. but that does not mean I should have to drive behind her at less than 80 km/h in a 100km/h zone. I know for certain that I started the maneuver on a broken white line and the Garda reckons I passed her on a cont. white line. Im not so sure so I must check it out today in the day light. But even if I discover a broken white line in the area, really its just my word against hers and who is the judge going to listen to?

Henry Ford III

sflandango wrote: »

Yes I do accept that the Gardaí see accidents etc. but that does not mean I should have to drive behind her at less than 80 km/h in a 100km/h zone.....

If you cannot safely overtake (and stay within the speed limit whilst doing so) on a broken white line that's exactly what it means.

Absurdum

Henry Ford III wrote: »

If you cannot safely overtake

I don't see anything in the OP's post to suggest it wasn't safe

Henry Ford III

Absurdum wrote: »

I don't see anything in the OP's post to suggest it wasn't safe

Not even the solid white line?

Absurdum

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Not even the solid white line?

it's just a line!

johnners2981

Slow drivers like that create accidents, making crazy drivers like the op do crazy overtaking maneuvers.
I feel for you op, don't mind does overly cautious old biddies on boards

johnners2981

*these

Gophur

sflandango wrote: »

Yes I do accept that the Gardaí see accidents etc. but that does not mean I should have to drive behind her at less than 80 km/h in a 100km/h zone. I know for certain that I started the maneuver on a broken white line and the Garda reckons I passed her on a cont. white line. Im not so sure so I must check it out today in the day light. But even if I discover a broken white line in the area, really its just my word against hers and who is the judge going to listen to?

You show a frightening lack of maturity, TBH.

1. The speed limit is not a target. If other road users feel comfortable driving at 80kph then that is their right.

2. Regardless of where you started your manoeuvre, it is a penalty point offence to cross a continuous while line, which you did. You have admitted crossing the continuous line as you pulled back in.

Be a man. Take your punishment and accept that. maybe, you are not always right?

Wile E. Coyote

Absurdum wrote: »

I don't see anything in the OP's post to suggest it wasn't safe

Overtaking two cars on a continuous white line seems a little unsafe to me.

Henry Ford III

Absurdum wrote: »

it's just a line!

Yip, just it's a line not to be crossed

Absurdum

Wile E. Coyote wrote: »

Overtaking two cars on a continuous white line seems a little unsafe to me.

it wasn't quite like that though

OP can you post a google maps/streetview link to the location please?

Jagle

sflandango wrote: »

Anyway the off duty Garda rang ahead to the next town and got them to stop me.

she used her phone while driving? while off duty?

surely the law must apply to them while not working

johnners2981

@Gophur

The speed limit is a target, its called progress in a driving test. You fail if you don't get up to speed quickly enough and close to the speed limit.

I'm sick of seeing people doing 70kph in a 100kph zone, I'd say if these people weren't handed their licenses n the 70's and 80's they wouldn't be on the roads

Gophur

johnners2981 wrote: »

Slow drivers like that create accidents, making crazy drivers like the op do crazy overtaking maneuvers.
.........

So, the OP is blameless for crossing the central markings? It's the fault of the driver he passed?


How about taking responsibility for his own actions, eh?

Wile E. Coyote

johnners2981 wrote: »

@Gophur

The speed limit is a target, its called progress in a driving test.

This wasn't a driving test. This is someone overtaking on a section of road deemed unsafe for overtaking.

vectra

Absurdum wrote: »

it's just a line!

Yes you are correct.
Except you seem to have missed the fact that the line is supposed to be on the right of your car and not the left

johnners2981

Gophur wrote: »

So, the OP is blameless for crossing the central markings? It's the fault of the driver he passed?


How about taking responsibility for his own actions, eh?

You obviously don't commute, its a long enough day of work and traveling without some slow fecker creating a traffic jam on a main road

Absurdum

vectra wrote: »

Yes you are correct.
Except you seem to have missed the fact that the line is supposed to be on the right of your car and not the left

thanks

so would you suggest that the OP abandon the overtaking maneuver and reverse back to the broken white line in order to not cross it?

johnners2981

I'm not saying the op was right to cross a continuous white line I'm just in a ranting mood about slow drivers

Gophur

johnners2981 wrote: »

You obviously don't commute, its a long enough day of work and traveling without some slow fecker creating a traffic jam on a main road

Whether I commute, or not, is irrelevant.

There is no excuse for impatience while driving. If one cannot stay behind a slow driver, without having to do something stupid, then one should not have a licence and shouldn't be on our roads.

Tragedy

Roads are littered with markings that if a driver took them as gospel would create god knows how many accidents. Lost count of 100km/h N roads around the country with dashed lines going around blind corners, at busy junctions etc.

Likewise, speed limits being completely inappropriate.

That's why drivers are meant to use their experience, knowledge and judgement.

The OP knew the road, could see the way was clear, used his judgement and overtook perfectly safely from what we've been told so far.

OP, post a google maps link to the road please.

Gophur wrote: »

Whether I commute, or not, is irrelevant.

There is no excuse for impatience while driving. If one cannot stay behind a slow driver, without having to do something stupid, then one should not have a licence and shouldn't be on our roads.

And if one cannot make progress safely without unnecessarily hindering other road users, then one should not have a license and shouldn't be on our roads.

Wile E. Coyote

Absurdum wrote: »

thanks

so would you suggest that the OP abandon the overtaking maneuver and reverse back to the broken white line in order to not cross it?

I'd suggest properly looking at the road ahead to ensure any manouver he attempts is safe to do so for both himself and anyone else that may be on the road at the time.

vectra

Absurdum wrote: »

thanks

so would you suggest that the OP abandon the overtaking maneuver and reverse back to the broken white line in order to not cross it?

No,
I would suggest that the OP use his supposedly knowledge of that road and wait for a legal part of the road to overtake.. after all..he doesn't even know what the line is for, Maybe if he slowed down a little to check the place out and get to know it better.

muckwarrior

It's great to see that there are so many drivers on boards capable of staying within the strictest letter of the law 100% of the time.

Absurdum

Wile E. Coyote wrote: »

I'd suggest properly looking at the road ahead to ensure any manouver he attempts is safe to do so for both himself and anyone else that may be on the road at the time.

it's not really possible to see the road surface/line markings that far ahead, perspective and all that jazz, for example: straight road it's nigh on impossible to see what the line(s) are 500m ahead, especially when it's wet like in the streetview pic.

Gophur

johnners2981 wrote: »

@Gophur

The speed limit is a target, its called progress in a driving test. You fail if you don't get up to speed quickly enough and close to the speed limit.

................

Where did you pull this nugget from? Honestly?

Tragedy wrote: »

Roads are littered with markings that if a driver took them as gospel would create god knows how many accidents. Lost count of 100km/h N roads around the country with dashed lines going around blind corners, at busy junctions etc.

Likewise, speed limits being completely inappropriate.

That's why drivers are meant to use their experience, knowledge and judgement.

The OP knew the road, could see the way was clear, used his judgement and overtook perfectly safely from what we've been told so far.

OP, post a google maps link to the road please.



..........

Tell you what, so, how about you ignore every single one of them and drive any way you like?

Why not meander through red lights and stop signs while you're at it?


Lads, there is some amount of BS being spouted here. It's no wonder people die when we have people deciding they know more than everyone else.

The Law of the Land is based on the lowest common denominator, it must cater for all people, of varying abilities.

........And if one cannot make progress safely without unnecessarily hindering other road users, then one should not have a license and shouldn't be on our roads.

That is a separate issue entirely and does not excuse you (or the OP, or anyone) breaking the Law to circumvent such drivers

Pique

sflandango wrote: »

...overtaking ... at night ....passed two cars. ...continuous white line...

Genius move !

sflandango wrote: »

...it seems that the line changes to a continuous white line ... I know the area well...

Not that well, it seems, if you didn't know the overtaking spot wasn't long enough to allow you to overtake 2 cars without being on the wrong side of the continuous line.

How far apart were both cars from each other?
How fast were you going before the overtake and as you were passing the off-duty guard ?

You're lucky not to get done for dangerous driving imo.

Slightly different to what the op is asking but something I have wondered for a while. Is the the offense actually crossing the continuous white line? If so what would be the case if you pulled out to over take a few cars on a broken white line, during the overtake the line became continuous but then back to broken again before you move in, then technically you haven't crossed a continuous white line.

Wile E. Coyote

Absurdum wrote: »

it's nigh on impossible to see what the line(s) are 500m ahead, especially when it's wet like in the streetview pic.

Who needs half a kilometre to overtake?

Henry Ford III

Absurdum wrote: »

it's not really possible to see the road surface/line markings that far ahead, perspective and all that jazz, for example: straight road it's nigh on impossible to see what the line(s) are 500m ahead, especially when it's wet like in the streetview pic.

In that case don't overtake.

Absurdum

Some people seem to be assuming that legal = safe here.

I crossed a continuous white line to pass a cyclist yesterday. My options included (1) staying behind the cyclist for maybe 10 minutes, whilst traffic behind us builds up, chances are someone would have got pissed off enough to make a dangerous maneuver to get by; or (2) crossing the line for maybe 1.5 seconds on a straight section with no oncoming traffic. The letter of the law, so beloved of many here, would dictate that option 1 must be followed or else...but common sense prevailed and I was on my merry way.

Absurdum

Wile E. Coyote wrote: »

Who needs half a kilometre to overtake?

who would overtake if they couldn't see beyond the actual distance it would take?

it was just a random distance I chose in any case.

Absurdum

Henry Ford III wrote: »

In that case don't overtake.

really? imagine you were in the Alfa 147 in that link, the van in front is doing ~75km/h, and there was nobody coming in the opposite direction. You wouldn't overtake?

Henry Ford III

Absurdum wrote: »

who would overtake if they couldn't see beyond the actual distance it would take?

The OP did presumably.

johnners2981

Gophur wrote: »

Whether I commute, or not, is irrelevant.

There is no excuse for impatience while driving. If one cannot stay behind a slow driver, without having to do something stupid, then one should not have a licence and shouldn't be on our roads.

Its not irrelevant, if you had to put up with not just slow but incredibly slow drivers you would also be annoyed with them.

I feel the opposite and think its the slow drivers who should get off the road, like I said if they drove that slow in a driving test they wouldn't get their license.

Absurdum

Henry Ford III wrote: »

The OP did presumably.

sflandango wrote: »

. I could see a car coming about a mile up the road and I know the area well so I knew i could overtake.

or not

johnners2981

Gophur wrote: »

Where did you pull this nugget from? Honestly?

That is a separate issue entirely and does not excuse you (or the OP, or anyone) breaking the Law to circumvent such drivers

You obviously haven't sat your driving test in some time, or you don't even have your license.

There is a line on the driving test sheet called progress, if you are overly slow in getting up to the speed limit, not overtaking when there is a clear chance to do so or exiting a junction you will fail the test.

And that's a fact, ok I think I've wrapped this argument up

Gophur

johnners2981 wrote: »

Its not irrelevant, if you had to put up with not just slow but incredibly slow drivers you would also be annoyed with them.

.............

With all due respect, who are you to tell me how I would feel?

You have absolutely no idea about me whatsoever, so to come out with such a statement is ridiculous.

If "slow" or "slower" drivers upset you that much, you should not be driving on our roads. Coping with other road users is part of the skill required to drive. If you cannot then I suggest you stop driving.

Henry Ford III

If I drive around Sligo/Leitrim I can see Ben Bulben for miles and miles. Doesn't change the fact that If I can't see the road ahead, and it's markings, I shouldn't overtake.

ur mentor

Slightly off post..
a friend of mine drove across the street, and in doing so crossed a solid white line, to get into a nice big empty parking space outside a shop.. it was raining..not much traffic at all at it was late evening... She was awarded with points for crossing line and then when she crossed it again to get back onto the 'right' side of road, she was awarded more bonus points. A solid line is a solid line.

Henry Ford III

Absurdum wrote: »

or not

Absurdum wrote: »

really? imagine you were in the Alfa 147 in that link, the van in front is doing ~75km/h, and there was nobody coming in the opposite direction. You wouldn't overtake?

No I wouldn't. I'd wait until it was safe, and legal to do that.

p.s. 75kph is quicker than quite a few crawlers whom I come across daily. If it were a cyclist or a tractor doing 20kph however I might think differently. Either way it doesn't excuse what the OP did.

johnners2981

Gophur wrote: »

If "slow" or "slower" drivers upset you that much, you should not be driving on our roads. Coping with other road users is part of the skill required to drive. If you cannot then I suggest you stop driving.

I'll consider your suggestion, now consider mine.

Every 10 years you should have to resit your driving test. That should get rid of the many slower, older, incompetent drivers on our roads and I'd be less likely to get upset.

That's a fantastic suggestion.

Gophur

johnners2981 wrote: »

You obviously haven't sat your driving test in some time, or you don't even have your license.

..........

You would make a very poor detective!

johnners2981 wrote: »

...........
There is a line on the driving test sheet called progress, if you are overly slow in getting up to the speed limit, not overtaking when there is a clear chance to do so or exiting a junction you will fail the test.

...........

You, obviously, , need to resit your test as you have absolutely no comprehension of what "maintaining progress" is all about!

Cuddlesworth

ur mentor wrote: »

Slightly off post..
a friend of mine drove across the street, and in doing so crossed a solid white line, to get into a nice big empty parking space outside a shop.. it was raining..not much traffic at all at it was late evening... She was awarded with points for crossing line and then when she crossed it again to get back onto the 'right' side of road, she was awarded more bonus points. A solid line is a solid line.

She should have taken it to court, judge would have thrown it out.