Scrum-half versus England

Monty Burnz

What do we think? Who will Kidney play, and who is on the bench?

I can see him giving TOL another run to get the last game out of his system (which might be either brilliant man-management, or suicidal conservatism and 'loyalty') and maybe Boss for a bit of the second half?

If we don't see Murray again, can we say that he's not on the plane? The only cert is Reddan, but I'd be surprised if TOL and Boss weren't the other two.

bleg

Who it should be: Murray, Redden

Who it will be: Redden, O leary

Deedsie

I'd love if he gave Murray a crack at it. Tomás wasn't at the races at all yesterday, Reddan is the starting scrum half I'd imagine against the States on 9/11

phog

Probably being asked a day too early, he wont pick a player that's not on the plane.

Taco Corp

phog wrote: »

Probably being asked a day too early, he wont pick a player that's not on the plane.

Yup. It all depends who's the third scrum half (TOL and Reddan being the first 2). Who ever that is should start. I hope it will be Murray

Phonehead

Kidney is desperate to win this, Reddan will start, far too much of a pr risk to play TOL against the Auld enemy.

Otacon

Depends on who Kidney picks for the RWC squad.

I'd like to see: [Reddan, Murray, Boss]
Reddan with Murray on the bench

We will probably see: [O'Leary, Reddan, Boss]
Reddan with O'Leary on the bench

If the above is unclear, the brackets are the squad SHs, then the picks for the England game.

thomond2006

Please oh please let it be Murray to start. Won't happen mind, he'll give TOL another game to rediscover his form.

MungBean

Reddan with Boss on the bench.

Cant see TOL playing but can see him sneaking along to WC.

Forget about Murray, he is too inexperienced to go to the world cup as second choice scrum half. Thats what we need now a second choice scrum half. TOL is a dud and we all know it. If we bring Reddan, TOL and Murray we go with only one international scrum half with a kid and joke as back up.

kennedmc

Monty Burnz wrote: »

If we don't see Murray again, can we say that he's not on the plane? The only cert is Reddan, but I'd be surprised if TOL and Boss weren't the other two.

THe WC squad is announced before the England game

BrianOFlanagan

Anyone but O'Leary, after that display he shouldn't be on the plane and when you consider how in form Reddan, Murray and Boss are those 3 should be the RWC choice.

But we all know where Kidneys loyalty lies and I expect to see O'Leary having some part in the England game with Reddan being the cover/starter.

In order of preference it should be Reddan then Murray and finally Boss. O'Leary shouldn't even be considered.

Plus how great would it be to bring a quality player like Murray who is relatively unknown to other nations as a sort of wildcard, he wouldn't be as predictable as our other 9's.

theboss80

Deedsie wrote: »

I'd love if he gave Murray a crack at it. Tomás wasn't at the races at all yesterday, Reddan is the starting scrum half I'd imagine against the States on 9/11

9th of November? world cup will be over by then:D:D

Id love to see it being Reddan and Murray but I would say that it is going to be Reddan and Boss next week

PhatPiggins

theboss80 wrote: »

9th of November? world cup will be over by then:D:D

Id love to see it being Reddan and Murray but I would say that it is going to be Reddan and Boss next week

I'd be happy enough if it was Reddan and Boss. If we're doomed to be cursed with O'Leary at the WC the best we can hope for is that he's third choice

drbeatz

Im sorry if Tomas O'Leary Starts i have lost all fate. You cant play that badly and get away with it. He cost us the game and a minimum of 10 points.

He was france's best player.

Murray and Reddan against the French. Boss as third scrum half.

Anyone else think sexton played quite well at 12??

GiftofGab

It was only 9 months ago that Kidney wouldn't play Mike Ross and Sean O'Brien and now they're a vital part to our team. I have a feeling that Kidney is going to miss the boat if he doesn't pick Murray.

GerM

According to a post on MF, it was reported in the Echo that several Munster players have already been told they're not travelling. Murray was one of those named along with Hayes, MOD and Horan.

I fully expect Reddan to start next week with TOL on the bench.

Foxtrol

GiftofGab wrote: »

It was only 9 months ago that Kidney wouldn't play Mike Ross and Sean O'Brien and now they're a vital part to our team. I have a feeling that Kidney is going to miss the boat if he doesn't pick Murray.

The Murray thing has been gone into in depth in two threads now but the difference between the examples you have chosen is that both those players had a number of seasons experience and at the time of the AI's SOB was one of the form players in the HC and Ross was holding his own against front rows in the HC while on the other side Murray has had only 8 professional starts. Murray may be great in the future but you are not comparing like with like.

jaansu

Foxtrol wrote: »

The Murray thing has been gone into in depth in two threads now but the difference between the examples you have chosen is that both those players had a number of seasons experience and at the time of the AI's SOB was one of the form players in the HC and Ross was holding his own against front rows in the HC while on the other side Murray has had only 8 professional starts. Murray may be great in the future but you are not comparing like with like.

I know what you're saying but I think he's worth a shot. He played well, showing great maturity, when he came on last week. Being his first or second and coming on away in France, and playing well, is pretty good in my book.

I agree he is one for the future but some learn by being stuck in at the deep end and I think Murray is one of those.

MungBean

jaansu wrote: »

I know what you're saying but I think he's worth a shot. He played well, showing great maturity, when he came on last week. Being his first or second and coming on away in France, and playing well, is pretty good in my book.

I agree he is one for the future but some learn by being stuck in at the deep end and I think Murray is one of those.

World cup is not the place to be takin chances and seeing if a player is the type to sink or swing when thrown in the deep end. I think he will be great and I wouldnt begrudge him his chance but I think Kidney would be reckless to chose him over Boss.

petebricquette

Skunkle wrote: »

World cup is not the place to be takin chances and seeing if a player is the type to sink or swing when thrown in the deep end. I think he will be great and I wouldnt begrudge him his chance but I think Kidney would be reckless to chose him over Boss.

I don't think it should be a case of Boss losing out to Murray but it certainly should be Reddan, Boss and Murray as the travelling trio of scrumhalves. That's assuming that Kidney will go on form rather than favouritism.

danthefan

If he picks TOL I'm supporting England.

MungBean

petebricquette wrote: »

I don't think it should be a case of Boss losing out to Murray but it certainly should be Reddan, Boss and Murray as the travelling trio of scrumhalves. That's assuming that Kidney will go on form rather than favouritism.

I agree but everyone seems to be of the opinion that TOL is going and nobody is mentioning Boss.

MungBean

danthefan wrote: »

If he picks TOL I'm supporting England.

I wouldnt go that far, might get a Welsh jersey just in case though.

danthefan

Skunkle wrote: »

I agree but everyone seems to be of the opinion that TOL is going and nobody is mentioning Boss.

TOL is going though. We can talk all day about who should and shouldn't go, but TOL will be named in the squad tomorrow, that's just a fact.

siltirocker

drbeatz wrote: »

Im sorry if Tomas O'Leary Starts i have lost all fate. You cant play that badly and get away with it. He cost us the game and a minimum of 10 points.

He was france's best player.

Murray and Reddan against the French. Boss as third scrum half.

Anyone else think sexton played quite well at 12??

He really did. However I would question how he would do defensively against someone like Ma'a Nonu.

MungBean

danthefan wrote: »

TOL is going though. We can talk all day about who should and shouldn't go, but TOL will be named in the squad tomorrow, that's just a fact.

Thats my point. Reddan and TOL are going. So why do people want to take a chance with Murray as the third SH when if he sinks we are left with one competant scrum half in the world cup rather than bringing Boss (who isnt far off Reddan's capabilities) and having two plus the Dud O'Leary ?

jaansu

petebricquette wrote: »

I don't think it should be a case of Boss losing out to Murray but it certainly should be Reddan, Boss and Murray as the travelling trio of scrumhalves. That's assuming that Kidney will go on form rather than favouritism.

My point exactly. The three sh should be Reddan, Boss and Murray

skregs

Foxtrol wrote: »

The Murray thing has been gone into in depth in two threads now but the difference between the examples you have chosen is that both those players had a number of seasons experience and at the time of the AI's SOB was one of the form players in the HC and Ross was holding his own against front rows in the HC while on the other side Murray has had only 8 professional starts. Murray may be great in the future but you are not comparing like with like.

At the time of the AIs SOB was on fire, was getting praise for being an unbelievable player from all quarters for the last six months and the best Kidney could do with him was a start in the wrong position against Samoa after receiving major criticism for not playing him.
And then still favoured Leamy over him.


It's pretty clear at this stage that the man has no idea how to pick his best players

Sanity_Saviour

The crux of the matter surrpunding Murray is he is good but is he good enough to play against the Tri-Nations? I'm all for throwing players in at the deep end but this is the World Cup only the best should be there. Should O'Leary not get one last chance to prove he can do it?

thomond2006

Sanity_Saviour wrote: »

The crux of the matter surrpunding Murray is he is good but is he good enough to play against the Tri-Nations? I'm all for throwing players in at the deep end but this is the World Cup only the best should be there. Should O'Leary not get one last chance to prove he can do it?

Is TOL good enough to play against the Tri Nations?

Podge_irl

Sanity_Saviour wrote: »

Should O'Leary not get one last chance to prove he can do it?

He should have had his last chance about a year ago.

MungBean

Sanity_Saviour wrote: »

Should O'Leary not get one last chance to prove he can do it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6MyeD9yhDA

skregs

Sanity_Saviour wrote: »

Should O'Leary not get one last chance to prove he can do it?

No. The time for last chances is gone. We need players who can win us games. Probably too late to be trying Murray too. Should be Reddan and Boss now til after the WC

athtrasna

Rumours from a reliable source on Twitter that TOL has been dropped from the squad :eek: please let it be so!

danthefan

athtrasna wrote: »

Rumours from a reliable source on Twitter that TOL has been dropped from the squad :eek: please let it be so!

Link please.

athtrasna

https://twitter.com/#!/22dropout

MungBean

Bullshít, there's no way Kidney would drop him completely in favour of Murray.

jaansu

What constitutes a reliable source on twitter. Anyone can go register and say he's DK.

Sanity_Saviour

thomond2006 wrote: »

Sanity_Saviour wrote: »

The crux of the matter surrpunding Murray is he is good but is he good enough to play against the Tri-Nations? I'm all for throwing players in at the deep end but this is the World Cup only the best should be there. Should O'Leary not get one last chance to prove he can do it?

Is TOL good enough to play against the Tri Nations?

On his day he has the attacking prowess and the physicality I think he is good enough on his day the problem is his day dosen't come by enough

athtrasna

The guy has been spot on before...time will tell

MungBean

athtrasna wrote: »

The guy has been spot on before...time will tell

Has he been wrong before ?

athtrasna

I hope he's right! TOL is too slow and wouldn't be anywhere near the squad

jaansu

athtrasna wrote: »

The guy has been spot on before...time will tell

Don't get me wrong, I hope he's right, but I'll believe it when I see it.

Brendan97

athtrasna wrote: »

I hope he's right! TOL is too slow and wouldn't be anywhere near the squad

athtrasna is right. reddan or boss should go. They are better at playing with sexton (who appears to be the starting no.10 for the WC).

BrianOFlanagan

No O'Leary YESSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WOO HOO!!!!!

Monty Burnz

So will we see Boss and Reddan get a half each here?

athtrasna

athtrasna wrote: »

Rumours from a reliable source on Twitter that TOL has been dropped from the squad :eek: please let it be so!

Skunkle wrote: »

Bullshít, there's no way Kidney would drop him completely in favour of Murray.

jaansu wrote: »

What constitutes a reliable source on twitter. Anyone can go register and say he's DK.

Ahem?

MungBean

athtrasna wrote: »

Ahem?

you was right and I was wrong.

justsomebloke

Monty Burnz wrote: »

So will we see Boss and Reddan get a half each here?

redden 63 odd minutes with boss to finish it out

Sanity_Saviour

Still might as well start O'Leary for the banter like

Monty Burnz

Surely the smart thing to do is to play Boss and Murray for a half each, raise the stakes a bit for Murray? He seemed to step up to every challenge presented him so far, and a half against England would mean I'd be less scared to see him come on for an injured Reddan or Boss at the WC.

Boss needs the game time too, and Reds will be our starting scrum-half so no need to risk him against England.