NHL 2012 New Format

detective

I don't disagree with this in principle but as a Limerick fan I'm gutted that we won't be playing top tier next year. What was the purpose of the 2011 Division 2 Final in Ennis.

ebbsy

Being from Wicklow Im not going to beat around the bush here :

1) The GAA deal with smaller organisations in the same way FIFA do, if not worse.

2) You cannot believe anything they say. The offical who presented us with the trophy for winning division two said "welcome to the big time".

Counties like Cavan are right to pull out of hurling, rather than participate in a fraud of a league.

GAA = GRAB ALL ASSOCIATION

jack presley

Does the winner of 1A play the winner of 1B in the final or is 1B considered a division lower?

detective

jack presley wrote: »

Does the winner of 1A play the winner of 1B in the final or is 1B considered a division lower?

1B is lower although what you said was considered. They could have at least given a years notice like they're doing in football.

KevIRL

Are games to be played on a home and away basis or does each county only have 5 league games next season?

detective

KevIRL wrote: »

Are games to be played on a home and away basis or does each county only have 5 league games next season?

5 rounds so 5 games. Plus the promotion relegation games between top/bottom two.

adrian522

I preferred it the way it was, 7 top notch games is excellent preparation for championship.

What will they do with the season ticket now with only 5 games guaranteed in the league.

They won't be able to charge much more than €40.

KevIRL

detective wrote: »

5 rounds so 5 games. Plus the promotion relegation games between top/bottom two.

Poor imo. More than 5 games needed.

As the poster above has mentioned I wonder how it will affect the season ticket.

ebbsy

KevIRL wrote: »

Poor imo. More than 5 games needed.

As the poster above has mentioned I wonder how it will affect the season ticket.

Adversely I hope, I hope the GAA go bust and take their stupid league with them.

Brian017

Why bother calling Div 1b, 1b and not 2 if the teams in div. 1b cannot win the League. pointless renaming if you ask me and two fingers to all the Limerick players who worked hard throughout the winter to claim Division 1 status.

Carthy303

A joke of a decision really but sure we shouldn't be surprised. Limerick hurlers gave a long hard winter last year to become a division 1 team and now it's f**ked back in their face's by the powers that be. Limerick are probably not the only county to be treated unfairly but they are certainly the standout ones.

Het-Field

ebbsy wrote: »

Being from Wicklow Im not going to beat around the bush here :

1) The GAA deal with smaller organisations in the same way FIFA do, if not worse.

2) You cannot believe anything they say. The offical who presented us with the trophy for winning division two said "welcome to the big time".

Counties like Cavan are right to pull out of hurling, rather than participate in a fraud of a league.

GAA = GRAB ALL ASSOCIATION

Sorry, for all the laughter we have derived from the state of Kilkenny Football, at least they have the good grace to enter a team into the NFL. Cavan should be ashamed, and deserve no commendations for the decision to remove themselves from the Championship and the league.

poolboy

Brian017 wrote: »

Why bother calling Div 1b, 1b and not 2 if the teams in div. 1b cannot win the League. pointless renaming if you ask me and two fingers to all the Limerick players who worked hard throughout the winter to claim Division 1 status.

Im delighted and cant understand anyone from limerick clare wexford or offaly having a problem with it. All of those counties have experienced what division 2 hurling does to a county. To be so short sighted as to dismiss this format because ye were promoted this year baffles me. What would it do to limerick hurling if ye went to div1 for one year and came straight back down. At least this format gives competitve games to all counties trying to remain close to the top 4/5. I can feel some sympathy for the likes of wicklow but while promoting hurling in weaker counties is essential it shouldnt be at the expense of standards in limerick clare wex offaly etc who on their day could give anyone a game which is what the old div2 was doing. Thumbs up from me

Spudmonkey

poolboy wrote: »

Im delighted and cant understand anyone from limerick clare wexford or offaly having a problem with it. All of those counties have experienced what division 2 hurling does to a county. To be so short sighted as to dismiss this format because ye were promoted this year baffles me. What would it do to limerick hurling if ye went to div1 for one year and came straight back down. At least this format gives competitve games to all counties trying to remain close to the top 4/5. I can feel some sympathy for the likes of wicklow but while promoting hurling in weaker counties is essential it shouldnt be at the expense of standards in limerick clare wex offaly etc who on their day could give anyone a game which is what the old div2 was doing. Thumbs up from me

But its still going to keep them a level below the top division team which isn't doing them any favours. This is going to keep a definite line between the likes of tipp, kilkenny etc and those in the second division.

This was a whole load of effort from the likes of the Limerick hurlers which was rewarded with bollock all.

poolboy

Spudmonkey wrote: »

But its still going to keep them a level below the top division team which isn't doing them any favours. This is going to keep a definite line between the likes of tipp, kilkenny etc and those in the second division.

This was a whole load of effort from the likes of the Limerick hurlers which was rewarded with bollock all.

But thats where they are at. A level below tipp, kilkenny etc. This is just a far more competitive league that will assist them in their ultimate goal of reaching the levels of kilkenny/ tipp. Ok maybe not limerick or wexford in the short term seen as they were originally div1 this year but lets be honest, chances were pretty high one of them was going straight back down. The benefits of this are long term not for 1 season if they are good enough they will be back where they feel they belong in 2013, for this year and the future they have a league against teams of similar ability not 1 competitive game followed by a div 2 final

jack presley

The whole 1A and 1B instead of 1 and 2 is bloody stupid. Why isn't 2A called 1C then?

poolboy

jack presley wrote: »

The whole 1A and 1B instead of 1 and 2 is bloody stupid. Why isn't 2A called 1C then?

True but in the grand scheme of things:rolleyes:

Mountainlad

poolboy wrote: »

But thats where they are at. A level below tipp, kilkenny etc. This is just a far more competitive league that will assist them in their ultimate goal of reaching the levels of kilkenny/ tipp. Ok maybe not limerick or wexford in the short term seen as they were originally div1 this year but lets be honest, chances were pretty high one of them was going straight back down. The benefits of this are long term not for 1 season if they are good enough they will be back where they feel they belong in 2013, for this year and the future they have a league against teams of similar ability not 1 competitive game followed by a div 2 final

How will this help? To be the best you have to play the best and get experience. Players like Downes, Hannon, Mulcahy and all the other young Limerick players, Clare players, Wexford etc. would benefit a lot more from playing Tipp, Kilkenny, Waterford, Dublin and Cork then not playing them.


The only complaints were that maybe Clare and Offaly could be in Division 1 because it wasn't doing them much good being in Division 2. So what do the GAA do in there infinite wisdom? They make it even more elitist. Disastorous decision.

Also, I heard they've introduced hawk-eye into Croke Park. This kinda sh*t maddens me.

Het-Field

Mountainlad wrote: »

Also, I heard they've introduced hawk-eye into Croke Park. This kinda sh*t maddens me.

The GAA actually agree to engage in a practice which is commonplace in most other sports!

How can that annoy anybody?

Mountainlad

Het-Field wrote: »

The GAA actually agree to engage in a practice which is commonplace in most other sports!

How can that annoy anybody?

Probably isn't the thread for this but what will this actually solves? What will they limit it too? I presume it's most likely just in the case of determining whether the ball has crossed the line or gone over the bar?

This isn't really solving much of a problem. I mean the only high profile incident I'm aware of this year of a dubious point costing a team was the Limerick/Wexford game and that was in Port Laoise.

Hawk Eye is fine, provided measures are introduced to improve the standard of refereeing, improve how the game is officiated, improve the rules and such. Is that going to happen, is hawk-eye them saying 'Well look we put this in place what more can we do?'

Think they'd surely be better served spending the money (500,000) coaching refs, giving them fitness regimes, talks on diet and such then putting this in place.

Feel free to tell me what I fail to have taken into consideration here, because I must be missing something, otherwise this is blatantly a bad decision.

soccymonster

Just found this out now. And I cannot contain my anger.
Limerick are as good as Cork, Dublin, Waterford and possibly Galway on any given day.
The county who has taken the biggest stride this year in terms of building a team. Division 2 winners and we expect to be playing with the big guns the year after to develop this team further yet now we've just been thrown back to where we started. The likes of Hannon, Tobin, Downes won't get to sample the likes of Kilkenny or Tipp in the league now and as we try to blood new players, they won't either.

Being a Limerick supporter and seeing how far we've come in a year and how much potential this team has to go even further next year, it's disappointing to see that the achievements of rebuilding a young, good side have not been recognized or at least rewarded with that one Div1 place that this Limerick team who trained their hardest during the year wanted come the start of this year and rightly won.

Also feel for Wexford as they are relegated now after fighting to stay in division 1.

Het-Field

Mountainlad wrote: »

Probably isn't the thread for this but what will this actually solves? What will they limit it too? I presume it's most likely just in the case of determining whether the ball has crossed the line or gone over the bar?

This isn't really solving much of a problem. I mean the only high profile incident I'm aware of this year of a dubious point costing a team was the Limerick/Wexford game and that was in Port Laoise.

Hawk Eye is fine, provided measures are introduced to improve the standard of refereeing, improve how the game is officiated, improve the rules and such. Is that going to happen, is hawk-eye them saying 'Well look we put this in place what more can we do?'

Think they'd surely be better served spending the money (500,000) coaching refs, giving them fitness regimes, talks on diet and such then putting this in place.

Feel free to tell me what I fail to have taken into consideration here, because I must be missing something, otherwise this is blatantly a bad decision.

It is very easy to make bald statements about improving the standards of reffing, "coaching refs" etc. Unless you have ideas as to what will prevent Martin Sludden etc from making bad decisions on the spur of the moment, "coaching refs" will not do much beyond what we already have.

"Talks on diets". That is meaningless. If they are not already doing so, the GAA should be equipping umpires with standard directions on diet etc, which does not require seminars in plush hotels, which will be then be adhered to by some referees and not by others. Such seminars sound like junkets, and tbh, they probably would be nothing less than junkets.

You have also sought to quantify the use of hawk-eye without any empirical evidence. Depending on the manner in which it will be used, and the personel who will decide whether it will be used in a certain instance, it could become a common reference point throughout games. Rules surrounding the NFL and managerial intervention could be considered in allowing teams challange decisions taken on the field.

Mountainlad

Het-Field wrote: »

It is very easy to make bald statements about improving the standards of reffing, "coaching refs" etc. Unless you have ideas as to what will prevent Martin Sludden etc from making bad decisions on the spur of the moment, "coaching refs" will not do much beyond what we already have.

"Talks on diets". That is meaningless. If they are not already doing so, the GAA should be equipping umpires with standard directions on diet etc, which does not require seminars in plush hotels, which will be then be adhered to by some referees and not by others. Such seminars sound like junkets, and tbh, they probably would be nothing less than junkets.

You have also sought to quantify the use of hawk-eye without any empirical evidence. Depending on the manner in which it will be used, and the personel who will decide whether it will be used in a certain instance, it could become a common reference point throughout games. Rules surrounding the NFL and managerial intervention could be considered in allowing teams challange decisions taken on the field.

The statement about improveing the standard of refereeing in my view is mainly about improving fitness levels. I'm sure we'd both agree that the fitter you are, the better decisions you'll make yes? Or in effect, the less tired you are the more correct your decisions will be.

So, they need to be fitter. It's evident simply looking at some of them that they're not fit enough. So diet needs to be addressed as well.

As I've said before they don't have to be as fit as say Stephen Molumphy or Marc O'Sé etc. They don't have to be able to be fit enough to win dirty ball and score goals and make blocks. They just have to be fit enough to keep up with the game, and in many instances they're clearly not.

Never said they had to be in plush hotels, where did that come from? I would expect that assigning dieticians to give talks and advice and design programmes for referees would cost money no? Probably not 500,000 euro though.

In order to achieve more of a commitment maybe from referees perhaps there should be better incentives to for them to continue to referee. One automatic incentive would be less complaints about bad decisions being made, and less personal abuse.

And listening to what people have been saying and observing it closely this year, I think they're right about the need for a clear definition of what a tackle actually is.

And yes I have no idea where it will stop, but how much do you honestly think they will allow to be referred to hawk-eye? Where do they draw the line?

Het-Field

Mountainlad wrote: »

The statement about improveing the standard of refereeing in my view is mainly about improving fitness levels. I'm sure we'd both agree that the fitter you are, the better decisions you'll make yes? Or in effect, the less tired you are the more correct your decisions will be.?

I would imagine the best decisions are made by those who are best versed in the rules of the game, and who continue to engage in a sort of personal "Continuing Professional Development". Yes, fitness plays a great role, but I would argue that knowledge of the rules of the game is the key. An example is that of Martin Sludden. I would venture that the decision was based on an absence of a clear knowledge of the rule against the action taken by Joe Sheridan to ensure the ball crossed the line. Sludden was in a position (entering the penalty box) which gave him a clear view of the incident. His fitness had nothing to do with that decision. Equally, poor eyesight can give rise to phantom points being awarded, or valid points being struck out. There is a combination of factors, and tossing money at fitness will not ensure a greater appreciation of the rules, nor will it mitigate for poor eyesight. Referees can engage in this CPD on their own time, and the GAA could also ensure standard documents are sent to accredited Referees dealing with fitness and diet, which can be achieved on their own time.

Mountainlad wrote: »

So, they need to be fitter. It's evident simply looking at some of them that they're not fit enough. So diet needs to be addressed as well..?

Again, Directives from HQ can be enough, with fitness tests, which most GP's charge 25Euro per head for. Such money could be set-aside without doing away with a trial run for hawk-eye.

Mountainlad wrote: »

As I've said before they don't have to be as fit as say Stephen Molumphy or Marc O'Sé etc. They don't have to be able to be fit enough to win dirty ball and score goals and make blocks. They just have to be fit enough to keep up with the game, and in many instances they're clearly not.

I understand that, but such measures need not result in the GAA's inability to engage the use of technology which is commonplace in most other sports.

Mountainlad wrote: »

Never said they had to be in plush hotels, where did that come from? I would expect that assigning dieticians to give talks and advice and design programmes for referees would cost money no? Probably not 500,000 euro though..

Again, the GAA do not need to stop progressing technology in the game to progress fitness and ability of referees. My statement about "plush hotels" come from the fact that events such as these are usually held in hotels with catering etc. That would not just be the GAA, but most organisations

Mountainlad wrote: »

In order to achieve more of a commitment maybe from referees perhaps there should be better incentives to for them to continue to referee. One automatic incentive would be less complaints about bad decisions being made, and less personal abuse...

Again, the fitness or diet of several referees who have allegedly made bad calls in the past years had little or nothing to do with their incorrect application of the rules.

Mountainlad wrote: »

And listening to what people have been saying and observing it closely this year, I think they're right about the need for a clear definition of what a tackle actually is....

Agreed

Mountainlad wrote: »

And yes I have no idea where it will stop, but how much do you honestly think they will allow to be referred to hawk-eye? Where do they draw the line?

Again, it will be up to the GAA to decide that.

detective

To the person who cannot understand why Limerick fans are dissappointed...

Because they played Clare in Ennis on the promise that whoever won would play Div 1 next year. This should have been announced with one year in advance where everybody knew what was at stake for the current year. How can you not get that in fairness?

And to state that Limerick would most likely get sent back down where did you get those odds? It certainly wasnt based on Championship 2011?

Mountainlad

detective wrote: »

And to state that Limerick would most likely get sent back down where did you get those odds? It certainly wasnt based on Championship 2011?

Yeah bit of a flawed logic there really, the players would hardly come away thinking "Ah sure it's all the one we were going straight back down anyway". Should have given them a years notice, agreed.

Mountainlad

Het-Field wrote: »

I would imagine the best decisions are made by those who are best versed in the rules of the game, and who continue to engage in a sort of personal "Continuing Professional Development". Yes, fitness plays a great role, but I would argue that knowledge of the rules of the game is the key. An example is that of Martin Sludden. I would venture that the decision was based on an absence of a clear knowledge of the rule against the action taken by Joe Sheridan to ensure the ball crossed the line. Sludden was in a position (entering the penalty box) which gave him a clear view of the incident. His fitness had nothing to do with that decision. Equally, poor eyesight can give rise to phantom points being awarded, or valid points being struck out. There is a combination of factors, and tossing money at fitness will not ensure a greater appreciation of the rules, nor will it mitigate for poor eyesight. Referees can engage in this CPD on their own time, and the GAA could also ensure standard documents are sent to accredited Referees dealing with fitness and diet, which can be achieved on their own time.



Again, Directives from HQ can be enough, with fitness tests, which most GP's charge 25Euro per head for. Such money could be set-aside without doing away with a trial run for hawk-eye.




I understand that, but such measures need not result in the GAA's inability to engage the use of technology which is commonplace in most other sports.



Again, the GAA do not need to stop progressing technology in the game to progress fitness and ability of referees. My statement about "plush hotels" come from the fact that events such as these are usually held in hotels with catering etc. That would not just be the GAA, but most organisations



Again, the fitness or diet of several referees who have allegedly made bad calls in the past years had little or nothing to do with their incorrect application of the rules.



Agreed



Again, it will be up to the GAA to decide that.

Ask any footballer/hurler they'll tell you there best decisions on the field are made the fresher they are, the fitter they are, the less tired they are. I acknowledge you mentioned it's important but I think you've understated it's importance to a degree.

If fitness levels rose we'd get better decisions all round, not just the big decisions but the 50/50 ones that happen often in every game. Of course if all referees had the same stanard of fitness, there'd still be some better than the other, naturally but just in general teams wouldn't wince reading the names of referees with a notorious reputation (not going to mention names here).

The example you gave does not neccesarily mean Sludden wasn't fit enough. He may not have been alert enough to fully comprehend the situation, to follow the movements of the ball, to think coherently about the approriate course of action. Of course, I actually think that particular instance was the umpires fault.

In the case of umpires, they probably need to have an understanding of the rules which they often don't seem to have, they tend not to be referees.

It may be down to the gaa, but there is probably only so much you can use it for. It's one thing in tennis where it's all about where the ball landed, but in Rugby it is only used to determine if a try has been scored.

Think your getting your hopes up on this one, hawk-eye is not our saviour, and while I understand it isn't feasible to implement it outside of Croke Park, it means we're guaranteed that controversial decisions will ensue no matter what durisdiction hawk-eye is given in terms of influencing decisions.

Warper

This could have been done well with 2 teams promoted and 2 teams relegated each season. That would have been more equitable but here are the rules:

Six teams in each Division
. Five Rounds in each Division
. Promotion/Relegation: Top teams contest final. Winners promoted
. Bottom two teams in each Division contest a Relegation Play Off and the losing team is relegated

It is totally beneficial to the larger counties as even if one of them finish last, they still have a second chance to stay in the League via the Relegations playoff. Tipp or KK could lose every one of their 5 matches and still play in the League. Its a joke and Limerick must be furious with this decision.

poolboy

detective wrote: »

To the person who cannot understand why Limerick fans are dissappointed...

Because they played Clare in Ennis on the promise that whoever won would play Div 1 next year. This should have been announced with one year in advance where everybody knew what was at stake for the current year. How can you not get that in fairness?

And to state that Limerick would most likely get sent back down where did you get those odds? It certainly wasnt based on Championship 2011?

I understand why ye are dissapointed my point was that it is short sighted to write off this system because ye happen to be in division1 this year rather than see it benefits those teams who are fighting to keep contact with the top 5/6 and are going up and down year after year between div1 and 2. A year in the new division 1b will imo do far less damage to a team than the old div2 did. With all due respect playing westmeath carlow wicklow etc despite all the good strides they made is not worth a fu%k to the likes of limerick or clare when it comes to championship. Also i did not say limerick were most likely to get sent back down but you read what you wanted to read. I am in favour of this format imperfect as it is because it is better for hurling in general in the long run not just my own county.

poolboy

Mountainlad wrote: »

Yeah bit of a flawed logic there really, the players would hardly come away thinking "Ah sure it's all the one we were going straight back down anyway". Should have given them a years notice, agreed.

Never said that

Mountainlad

poolboy wrote: »

But thats where they are at. A level below tipp, kilkenny etc. This is just a far more competitive league that will assist them in their ultimate goal of reaching the levels of kilkenny/ tipp. Ok maybe not limerick or wexford in the short term seen as they were originally div1 this year but lets be honest, chances were pretty high one of them was going straight back down. The benefits of this are long term not for 1 season if they are good enough they will be back where they feel they belong in 2013, for this year and the future they have a league against teams of similar ability not 1 competitive game followed by a div 2 final

poolboy wrote: »

I understand why ye are dissapointed my point was that it is short sighted to write off this system because ye happen to be in division1 this year rather than see it benefits those teams who are fighting to keep contact with the top 5/6 and are going up and down year after year between div1 and 2. A year in the new division 1b will imo do far less damage to a team than the old div2 did. With all due respect playing westmeath carlow wicklow etc despite all the good strides they made is not worth a fu%k to the likes of limerick or clare when it comes to championship. Also i did not say limerick were most likely to get sent back down but you read what you wanted to read. I am in favour of this format imperfect as it is because it is better for hurling in general in the long run not just my own county.

You clearly did. Them or Wexford.

Don't see how the new system bests the old system.

And what about Westmeath and Carlow? Westmeath nearly beat Galway this year and had a minor team that ran both Dublin and Kilkenny close. Carlow won a leinster minor a few years ago and have made great strides. I suppose they don't deserve a chance either?

PARKHEAD67

poolboy wrote: »

Im delighted and cant understand anyone from limerick clare wexford or offaly having a problem with it. All of those counties have experienced what division 2 hurling does to a county. To be so short sighted as to dismiss this format because ye were promoted this year baffles me. What would it do to limerick hurling if ye went to div1 for one year and came straight back down. At least this format gives competitve games to all counties trying to remain close to the top 4/5. I can feel some sympathy for the likes of wicklow but while promoting hurling in weaker counties is essential it shouldnt be at the expense of standards in limerick clare wex offaly etc who on their day could give anyone a game which is what the old div2 was doing. Thumbs up from me

Go away.Your obviously not from limerick.This is a spit in the face to those players and O Grady.A bloody disgrace.

Speak Now

Mountainlad wrote: »

You clearly did. Them or Wexford.

Don't see how the new system bests the old system.

And what about Westmeath and Carlow? Westmeath nearly beat Galway this year and had a minor team that ran both Dublin and Kilkenny close. Carlow won a leinster minor a few years ago and have made great strides. I suppose they don't deserve a chance either?

They didn't im afraid, got to final in 2006 and got beaten by 26 pts.
They did win the "Christy Ring" in 2008 and 2009 though and deserved the step up to the big boys.

You're correct though the new system is going to be tough for the likes of Down, Carlow, Kerry, Westmeath, Wicklow and Derry to get a shot at some of the bigger boys in Division 1B.

Mountainlad

Jerry Seinfeld wrote: »

They didn't im afraid, got to final in 2006 and got beaten by 26 pts.
They did win the "Christy Ring" in 2008 and 2009 though and deserved the step up to the big boys.

You're correct though the new system is going to be tough for the likes of Down, Carlow, Kerry, Westmeath, Wicklow and Derry to get a shot at some of the bigger boys in Division 1B.

My mistake thanks.

ebbsy

poolboy wrote: »

I understand why ye are dissapointed my point was that it is short sighted to write off this system because ye happen to be in division1 this year rather than see it benefits those teams who are fighting to keep contact with the top 5/6 and are going up and down year after year between div1 and 2. A year in the new division 1b will imo do far less damage to a team than the old div2 did. With all due respect playing westmeath carlow wicklow etc despite all the good strides they made is not worth a fu%k to the likes of limerick or clare when it comes to championship. Also i did not say limerick were most likely to get sent back down but you read what you wanted to read. I am in favour of this format imperfect as it is because it is better for hurling in general in the long run not just my own county.

The counties who were in division 2 were there on merit, there was no injustice. Playing westmeath carlow wicklow etc is a reflection of the state of hurling in these "ELITE COUNTIES", not Carlow etc.

And thats not going to change anytime soon.

premierstone

ebbsy wrote: »

Being from Wicklow Im not going to beat around the bush here :

1) The GAA deal with smaller organisations in the same way FIFA do, if not worse.

2) You cannot believe anything they say. The offical who presented us with the trophy for winning division two said "welcome to the big time".

Counties like Cavan are right to pull out of hurling, rather than participate in a fraud of a league.

GAA = GRAB ALL ASSOCIATION

Your last jibe makes no sense at all, infact the new structure means there will be less games and as a result they will loose money.

Mountainlad

Het-Field wrote: »

You have also sought to quantify the use of hawk-eye without any empirical evidence. Depending on the manner in which it will be used, and the personel who will decide whether it will be used in a certain instance, it could become a common reference point throughout games. Rules surrounding the NFL and managerial intervention could be considered in allowing teams challange decisions taken on the field.

Just realised I half forgot what I was talking about on Saturday. Hawk-eye can only be used for tracking the balls movements. I was thinking in terms of video-refereeing. It has been explicitly stated that it will only be used for scores but as I said it can't be used for anything else at present.

Kojak

premierstone wrote: »

the new structure means there will be less games and as a result they will loose money.

So when will the hurling league start? Is it in March some time? Its a bit unusual that there will be even less exposure for the hurling next year, at least this year they had a weekend or two to themselves, now it looks like the football will have 3 rounds done by the time the NHL starts.

Will the late start of the NHL also put back the start of the early season tournament games (i.e. Walsh cup, Waterford crystal cup etc.)? If this is the case, I'd say it mightn't be a bad thing, as often these matches can be played in shít conditions.

premierstone

Kojak wrote: »

So when will the hurling league start? Is it in March some time? Its a bit unusual that there will be even less exposure for the hurling next year, at least this year they had a weekend or two to themselves, now it looks like the football will have 3 rounds done by the time the NHL starts.

Will the late start of the NHL also put back the start of the early season tournament games (i.e. Walsh cup, Waterford crystal cup etc.)? If this is the case, I'd say it mightn't be a bad thing, as often these matches can be played in shít conditions.

Yeah they are talking about starting it in March, however I have heard strong rumours on the grapevine that there will be no league next year under the current proposals and teams will refuse to take part, interesting times ahead!!

Daysha

Another case of making the right decision but also making a complete balls of it in the process.

I like this new system but it shouldn't be implemented until 2013. Run the NHL as normal next year (with Limerick and Wexford in Div 1), and then use the final league positions to base the 1A and 1B placings for the following year. Playing in the top tier of the hurling league was the aim for Limerick hurling and they achieved it, so the powers-that-be should give them what they earned, instead of giving ammunition to those that say they don't care about weaker counties.

Similarly Wexford proved with their win over Cork and draw against Tipp in the last 2 league games that they equally deserve another crack at the top-tier.

If Limerick and/or Wexford finish in the bottom 2 in an 8-team division then they can have no complaints. But lumping them into the 2nd division (which it is, and no cheap attempt to make them think otherwise will change that) without letting them prove themselves against the teams they earned the right to play is BS of the highest order.

Mountainlad

premierstone wrote: »

Yeah they are talking about starting it in March, however I have heard strong rumours on the grapevine that there will be no league next year under the current proposals and teams will refuse to take part, interesting times ahead!!

Any hints as to which teams? Seems unlikely to me that there will be no league.

premierstone

Mountainlad wrote: »

Any hints as to which teams? Seems unlikely to me that there will be no league.

Limerick, Wexford, Cork and Tipp so far and Im sure a few more aswell.

Mountainlad

premierstone wrote: »

Limerick, Wexford, Cork and Tipp so far and Im sure a few more aswell.

Limerick and Wexford is very understandable. Cork from a potential relegation point of view. Why Tipp though?

premierstone

Mountainlad wrote: »

Limerick and Wexford is very understandable. Cork from a potential relegation point of view. Why Tipp though?

No competitve games untill March and then only 5 league games really isnt enough of a prep for Championship. I would imagine Dublin will feel the same, they are a county that will want as many competitive games as possible with the young talent coming through.

CiaranMT

poolboy wrote: »

But thats where they are at. A level below tipp, kilkenny etc. This is just a far more competitive league that will assist them in their ultimate goal of reaching the levels of kilkenny/ tipp. Ok maybe not limerick or wexford in the short term seen as they were originally div1 this year but lets be honest, chances were pretty high one of them was going straight back down. The benefits of this are long term not for 1 season if they are good enough they will be back where they feel they belong in 2013, for this year and the future they have a league against teams of similar ability not 1 competitive game followed by a div 2 final

So you think that the likes of Clare, Limerick, et al can reach the level of the best teams in the country by not playing them?

Right..... :rolleyes:

Mountainlad

premierstone wrote: »

No competitve games untill March and then only 5 league games really isnt enough of a prep for Championship. I would imagine Dublin will feel the same, they are a county that will want as many competitive games as possible with the young talent coming through.

So who actually voted on this? I know it was central council but who were the reprsentative's and such. If your right then it is a lear case of bad communication between whoever the cc representatives were and their respective counties it would seem.

premierstone

Mountainlad wrote: »

So who actually voted on this? I know it was central council but who were the reprsentative's and such. If your right then it is a lear case of bad communication between whoever the cc representatives were and their respective counties it would seem.

Thats what has baffled me aswell tbh, no-one has openly supported it, many counties have both officialy and in private said they are not in favour but yet it seems to have been passed relativley easy

Kojak

premierstone wrote: »

Thats what has baffled me aswell tbh, no-one has openly supported it, many counties have both officialy and in private said they are not in favour but yet it seems to have been passed relativley easy

Its also amazing that the sponsors Allianz haven't complained about this more - they wil be loosing out on 2 extra games of exposure for themselves. I know there was rumblings of discontent when the football leagues were to be tampered with, but surprisingly nothing much so far as regards the HL.

Mountainlad

Reading the local paper today in Dungarvan and a former Waterford manager who writes for them and I'd regard as in the loop suggested that counties are growing in opposition and that we shall see this in the coming months, or something along those lines. If there is opposition to it across the board it is hard to seeing them continuing with it.

premierstone

Yeah Mountain we definitely havent heard the last of this and as I said I havent see one county or delegate come out in support of it, I would put good money that the proposed format of 1A and 1B with 6 teams each will not go ahead in 2012,

purpleblaa

Stupid GAA as usual. Wexford fought hard to stay in the top tier this year and now get shoved back down anyway. What type of motivation is that for players that give over 200 days of their year, every year to play this game?

Typical focusing on the non-problem areas rather than the championship as they should. When are we finally going to see an open draw for the All-Ireland? Sure, play all of the provincials but then, using a seeding system open the draw up (for every county) to play the All-Ireland.