bones......warning

portgirl123

just thought id let you know. i posted a few weeks about a st bernard i got. well had a call from the breeder yesterday to let me know that one of the litters died. poor pet, he was only just gone 12 weeks. apparently the new owner gave him a bone bought from a pet shop. now not 100% sure of the full story but from what i can gather, the pup was eating this bone on and of for the last 4 days. when they got up the other morning the pup was dead, had a bloated belly. vet opened dog up and its tummy was full of splinters from the bone and his poor little gut was all twisted. Now im not sure if the bone was left with pup or takin away, so dont want to be giving out as im sure there feeling bad enough, but 2 things concern me. 1. i didnt think a bone for a 12 week old pup would be the right thing to give, 2. im sure a pup/dog should not be left unsupervised.
So really i think what im trying to say is, guys please when giving ur pups/dogs things like this be very careful.

mymo

I wouldn't give a pup a bone until at least 10 months, think mine were a year or more.
I will only give fresh raw bones from the butcher and never buy the pet shop ones, god knows how long they are sitting there and what is in/on them.
Also never feed cooked bones, the number of people I have spoken too that are giving the roast chicken carcass or leg of lamb bones to their dogs is amazing, the two most splintery types of bone.
The best thing for a teething pup is a nylabone or the like, or freeze an icecream tub of water and bits of meat or dry food etc in, they love chomping on the big blocks of ice to get the tasty bits.
Poor pup.

tk123

Poor puppy Sounds like a good responsible breeder thou to let you know.

Zapperzy

Poor pup. I didn't think those petshop bones were for actually eating, as far as I know they are cooked and only designed for knawing or chewing.

**Vai**

Zapperzy wrote: »

Poor pup. I didn't think those petshop bones were for actually eating, as far as I know they are cooked and only designed for knawing or chewing.

For smaller dogs yeah but any dog with decent size teeth will get through those bones easy enough.

That is a terrible shame about the St Bernard. The poor dog. The poor breeders also, I'd say they feel equals parts guilty and grievous.

Chris_Heilong

Never give your dog COOKED bones, cooked bones also covers anything you would buy in a pet shop or shopping center. When cooked it changes the makeup of the bone and it splinters. This is dangerous for both pups and adult dogs a like, I really dont know why they are allowed sell these still.

Uncooked bones are alright to give a dog as a play thing or small bones in RAW chicken are fine and edible and can benifit their teeth by removing plaque as they chew. But please not weight bearing bones(shin and leg) as these are really though and can break teeth.

kylith

Any bones I've seen in pet shops seem to be roasted. I'd never give them to my dogs.

magentas

why are they even allowed to sell cooked bones for dogs? It's rediculous.

what's the best raw bones for chewing/eating for a med-lrg dog?
Chris I didn't know NOT to give the bigger bones like shin and it makes perfect sense when you explain it so thanks for that!
Was hoping to get some stuff from butchers, they've long outgrown pigs ears now they just inhale them!

Robinwood

portgirl123 wrote: »

just thought id let you know. i posted a few weeks about a st bernard i got. well had a call from the breeder yesterday to let me know that one of the litters died. poor pet, he was only just gone 12 weeks. apparently the new owner gave him a bone bought from a pet shop. now not 100% sure of the full story but from what i can gather, the pup was eating this bone on and of for the last 4 days. when they got up the other morning the pup was dead, had a bloated belly. vet opened dog up and its tummy was full of splinters from the bone and his poor little gut was all twisted. Now im not sure if the bone was left with pup or takin away, so dont want to be giving out as im sure there feeling bad enough, but 2 things concern me. 1. i didnt think a bone for a 12 week old pup would be the right thing to give, 2. im sure a pup/dog should not be left unsupervised.
So really i think what im trying to say is, guys please when giving ur pups/dogs things like this be very careful.

You are absolutely true ! A baby is a bay no matter whether its a Man or a animal ! It should be given the same care which we give to our baby ... and giving a bone to 12 week puppy which has not even got teeth to bite it is totally ridiculous ! Take care of the puppies well guys ...

At first they may come as a pet to your home but will remain as your friend forever in your life.. no matter how may people you may meet no one gonna be as trusty as your pet !

Chloroplast

magentas wrote: »

what's the best raw bones for chewing/eating for a med-lrg dog?

the best and only type of bone you should give any dog is a "beef marrow bone"
http://www.antonhealth.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/marrow-bones.jpg

these are perfect and the best all round, theres no sharp ends and theres plenty of activity there for the dog as he has to get all the marrow out from the middle, which will keep him occupied for a good couple hours.and its good for him.

pork bones are too salty and lamb bones may be to brittle,and chicken bones are a no no.

i always leave a duration of 1 month before giving my dog another one, as too much marrow can upset the digestive system,and may also bring on some itching or irritation. and perosnally i wouldn't start giving my dog bones till hes at least 2 years old,but that's just me.

andreac

Chloroplast wrote: »

the best and only type of bone you should give any dog is a "beef marrow bone"
http://www.antonhealth.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/marrow-bones.jpg

these are perfect and the best all round, theres no sharp ends and theres plenty of activity there for the dog as he has to get all the marrow out from the middle, which will keep him occupied for a good couple hours.and its good for him.

pork bones are too salty and lamb bones may be to brittle,and chicken bones are a no no.i always leave a duration of 1 month before giving my dog another one, as too much marrow can upset the digestive system,and may also bring on some itching or irritation. and perosnally i wouldn't start giving my dog bones till hes at least 2 years old,but that's just me.

Just a note to say that feeding raw chicken bones is perfectly fine, its the cooked ones that are very dangerous.

ISDW

Chloroplast wrote: »

the best and only type of bone you should give any dog is a "beef marrow bone"
http://www.antonhealth.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/marrow-bones.jpg

these are perfect and the best all round, theres no sharp ends and theres plenty of activity there for the dog as he has to get all the marrow out from the middle, which will keep him occupied for a good couple hours.and its good for him.

pork bones are too salty and lamb bones may be to brittle,and chicken bones are a no no.

i always leave a duration of 1 month before giving my dog another one, as too much marrow can upset the digestive system,and may also bring on some itching or irritation. and perosnally i wouldn't start giving my dog bones till hes at least 2 years old,but that's just me.

Cooked chicken bones are a no no, raw ones are absolutely fine, and in fact can help with the dog's digestion, if you feed your dog the odd chicken wing, then you shouldn't have to have their anal glands cleaned out.:D

TooManyDogs

Chloroplast wrote: »

the best and only type of bone you should give any dog is a "beef marrow bone"

Just bear in mind that a beef marrow bone is equally as hard as a dog's teeth and will wear down their teeth over time so they shouldn't have permenant access to marrow bones.

Again, uncooked chicken bones are perfectly safe

Chloroplast

andreac wrote: »

Just a note to say that feeding raw chicken bones is perfectly fine, its the cooked ones that are very dangerous.

have to disagree im afraid. ive seen dogs choke on raw chicken bones, if the owner had not of been there to supervise,the outcome would of been death id say.

TooManyDogs wrote: »

Just bear in mind that a beef marrow bone is equally as hard as a dog's teeth and will wear down their teeth over time so they shouldn't have permenant access to marrow bones.

yes, which is why i said :
i always leave a duration of 1 month before giving my dog another one.
i wouldn't start giving my dog bones till hes at least 2 years old.

andreac

Choking is different than bones splintering inside. Any dog can choke on any raw bone whether its chicken or not so you cant say that feeding raw chicken bones is any more dangerous than feeding any other raw bone.

Raw chicken is fine as it doesnt splinter and they are actually very good for dogs as ISDW stated in her reply.

Chloroplast

andreac wrote: »

Choking is different than bones splintering inside. Any dog can choke on any raw bone whether its chicken or not so you cant say that feeding raw chicken bones is any more dangerous than feeding any other raw bone.

Raw chicken is fine as it doesnt splinter and they are actually very good for dogs as ISDW stated in her reply.

Choking is different than bones splintering, yeah, but does that make the situation any better ? no it doesn't, its still bad on the dog.

and there is a size difference between a chicken bone and a beef marrow bone. a dog is more likely to choke on a chicken bone more than a beef marrow.

i never argued that a raw chicken bone is good for a dog, i know they are.that doesn't mean i feed them to my dog, just because they are "good for dogs". i wouldn't take the risk as they can choke on them easier than most other bones.

TooManyDogs

Chloroplast wrote: »

yes, which is why i said :
i always leave a duration of 1 month before giving my dog another one.

But you didn't say that the dogs should have limited access to the bone, not simply left at it until the bone is gone. They need to be used as a treat, maybe given for an hour each day and no more. I learned this the hard way with one of my dogs having flat teeth now because unfortunately I didn't know better at the time

JustAThought

Every time I leave the vets he always foes two things
: hugs the dog when he thinks I'm not looking
: tells me never to give her bones; ESPECIALLY NOT EVER CHiCKEN BONES because can SPLINTER and KIll

JustAThought

Every time I leave the vets he always foes two things
: hugs the dog when he thinks I'm not looking
: tells me never to give her bones; ESPECIALLY NOT EVER CHiCKEN BONES because can SPLINTER and KIll
( apparently)

andreac

JustAThought wrote: »

Every time I leave the vets he always foes two things
: hugs the dog when he thinks I'm not looking
: tells me never to give her bones; ESPECIALLY NOT EVER CHiCKEN BONES because can SPLINTER and KIll

That is only COOKED CHICKEN BONES, NOT UNCOOKED!!!

Seriously, i wish people would do research and get facts right!!

Just look up the BARF or Raw food diet and you will get all the info you need there about feeding raw bones.

http://www.rawlearning.com/rawfaq.html

http://www.skansen.com/nutrition/bone.htm

portgirl123

just to be on the safe side, i never feed my dogs any bones wherever cooked or raw.dont think its worth the risk

andreac

portgirl123 wrote: »

just to be on the safe side, i never feed my dogs any bones wherever cooked or raw.dont think its worth the risk

Sure the RAW/BARF diet is full of bones and its very safe to feed. I think people dont do enough research on this and think its dangerous when its not.

Chloroplast

portgirl123 wrote: »

just to be on the safe side, i never feed my dogs any bones wherever cooked or raw.dont think its worth the risk

agree, if you don't feel comfortable feeding bones,its best to be on the safe side.

reeta

My vet claims giving a dog ANY bone is like giving them a grenade. It destroys their insides and he has had to perform numerous operation on dogs who are torn apart when
trying to go to the toilet and the bone has ripped them apart. Because of this I just cant give my dog a bone of any sort, rightly or wrongly.....

andreac

reeta wrote: »

My vet claims giving a dog ANY bone is like giving them a grenade. It destroys their insides and he has had to perform numerous operation on dogs who are torn apart when
trying to go to the toilet and the bone has ripped them apart. Because of this I just cant give my dog a bone of any sort, rightly or wrongly.....

I really do wonder about some vets and the conflicting, ill informed information they give clients sometimes....:rolleyes:

ISDW

andreac wrote: »

I really do wonder about some vets and the conflicting, ill informed information they give clients sometimes....:rolleyes:

I know, before the advent of packaged dog kibble, what did dogs used to eat? Hmmmm. One of the reasons man and dog has the relationship that it has is because humans would throw the food they didn't want to the dogs to eat, the bits of the animal that we find inedible, bones, fat etc. My dogs caught a hare in our yard, they killed and ate the entire thing very quickly, bones, teeth, eyes, the lot. No side effects either.

Chloroplast

andreac wrote: »

I really do wonder about some vets and the conflicting, ill informed information they give clients sometimes....:rolleyes:

are you a vet yourself ?

andreac

Chloroplast wrote: »

are you a vet yourself ?

Nope. But ive seen and heard information vets give out and its not always right, far from it actually. A lot of the old school vets are very behind the times when it comes to pet care, including the likes of the RAW/BARF diet as most of them are not experts in pet nutrition.

Chloroplast

well call me old fashioned, but i would rather take the advice off a vet,(someone who has studied and practised for years to get his qualification) over something that i would read on the internet.

andreac

Chloroplast wrote: »

well call me old fashioned, but i would rather take the advice off a vet,(someone who has studied and practised for years to get his qualification) over something that i would read on the internet.

What kind of food do you think dogs ate before commercial food was ever introduced?

Chloroplast

andreac wrote: »

What kind of food do you think dogs ate before commercial food was ever introduced?

im sure dogs found more to eat than bones before mankind domesticated them.

andreac

Chloroplast wrote: »

im sure dogs found more to eat than bones before mankind domesticated them.

Like what? Dogs are carnivores so would eat animals, and that includes the bones of the animals so if it wasnt dangerous for them then im sure its no more dangerous now.

Chloroplast

andreac wrote: »

Like what? Dogs are carnivores so would eat animals, and that includes the bones of the animals so if it wasnt dangerous for them then im sure its no more dangerous now.

yeah and they had a much shorter life span back then as a result,and many died from diseases and bacteria.

andreac

Chloroplast wrote: »

yeah and they had a much shorter life span back then as a result,and many died from diseases and bacteria.

Diseases and bacteria have nothing to do with choking on bones so that argument is irrelevent.
Think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one...

http://www.dailypuppy.com/articles/what-bones-can-dogs-eat/8e59372a-7f69-f488-95d7-63ebaf2d62b0

Chloroplast

andreac wrote: »

Diseases and bacteria have nothing to do with choking on bones so that argument is irrelevent.

both can lead to death.

oh and in the link you posted, there is also others links of relevance other people might be appreciative of :

Harmful Effects of Raw Dog Food Diets

Arguments Against Raw Dog Food

The Risks of Feeding Raw Food to Dogs

Chris_Heilong

Chloroplast wrote: »

both can lead to death.

oh and in the link you posted, there is also others links of relevance other people might be appreciative of :

Harmful Effects of Raw Dog Food Diets

Arguments Against Raw Dog Food

The Risks of Feeding Raw Food to Dogs

Just took a look at the list on the "Harmful effects" of RAW feeding....what a load of ****. I will explain.

Excessive Protein: first of it is a natural level of protein in the meat we give, the calcium deficiency is non existant because we feed it Raw bone in the Chicken and there is a high Calcium content in Liver so this is false.

Parasites: We feed Human grade meat to the dogs not road kill and Human grade meat should be free of all Parasites.

Bacteria: Human grade meat if Handled correctly and kept refrigerated will stay very safe. There was a case of dog food contaminated with Salmonella that had to be recalled recently humans owners ended up in hospital over this but not one case of any dogs being effected so they are more resistant than we are when it come to food poisoning.

Bone Splinters: again wrong as Raw bones dont splinter.

Aggression: again a myth, I can reach into my dogs mouth when he is eating meat and he will let me, he also loves all people and children and is very gentle with other dogs.

Dont believe everything you read, also with respect to the vets, not all of them are in the game just for the Animals and you would find alot siding with pet food as they make a lot of money from selling it, some of their nutritional coarse's they do in University are sponsored or written by pet food companies.

Chloroplast

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

Dont believe everything you read.

:rolleyes: will do

aisher

I think its safer to feed raw bones to dogs but not when they are cooked - the worse type of bone to feed to a dog is chicken bones! I fed them to my dog for years and then one day a bone splintered in her mouth - she was frantic trying to get it out and we ended up having to put on gloves and pull it out - left her badly cut. I never feed bones to my dog now - once cooked they become dry and will splinter.

Shanao

I used to buy the roasted bones in my local petshop, but tomorrow I'm going to head to the butcher and see what I can get. I gave my lads raw chicken wings this evening- was feeding them to the cats but realised that I had defrosted too many so the dogs got the rest. Big dog took one straight away, before even realising what it was, greedy fecker, dropped it in the dirt, nosed it around until it was completely covered in dirt, then picked it up again and ate it:rolleyes: I'm quite sure the bacteria in that isn't going to kill him somehow


Quoting this from one of the links as well as I found them to be quite ridiculous:

"Feeding your dog raw food increases risk of adverse reactions to certain foods. Just like humans, dogs have food allergies and intolerances. On a raw-food diet, it may be difficult to pinpoint exactly what foods your dog can and cannot handle. According to dogpeople.org, beef, dairy, lamb, chicken, egg, soy and wheat make up 93 percent of all adverse food reactions for dogs. These are frequently found in raw-food diets."

I mean, seriously? Has this person even read the back of a bag of dog food? These are all the meats and ingredients mostly found in kibble, I cant imagine it would be all that difficult to determine what the dog is allergic to when you're making up his bloody meals yourself.


The whole thing just makes me wonder how wild dogs and wolves are surviving, especially those that eat wildfowl, birds and rob the odd chicken or two? Miraculous that they haven't all died from bacteria or being choked to death.

Chris_Heilong

Chloroplast wrote: »

:rolleyes: will do

Yes, watch my blood thirsty monster at work
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrHtMo0l2TA&feature=youtu.be

magentas

fab dog chris! It's a pity people can't seem to differentiate between COOKED and RAW chicken bones:rolleyes:

portgirl123

i, can myself, see what the difference is between both types of bones and i can see why cooked bones should be a big no no. but i dont think nothing is going to make me change my mind about giving my guys any type of bones raw or otherwise. yes i know im wrong and this is all dogs used to eat but for me id rather not chance it

kylith

I only give my girls slow cooked rib bones; the type that are so soft that they crumble in your hand, not break or splinter, crumble. They're so soft that I could eat them.

andreac

Kylith, you shouldnt be giving any cooked bones at all to your dog. Soft is not good so if you want to feed bones please make sure they are raw, not cooked, as what you are doing is quite dangerous for your doggy...:eek:

kylith

andreac wrote: »

Kylith, you shouldnt be giving any cooked bones at all to your dog. Soft is not good so if you want to feed bones please make sure they are raw, not cooked, as what you are doing is quite dangerous for your doggy...:eek:

Really? They're practically mush, I can crush them to powder in my fingers.

Chloroplast

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

Yes, watch my blood thirsty monster at work
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrHtMo0l2TA&feature=youtu.be

yes in case you missed the sarcasm in my post there,i was referring to the tripe you posted,i fee asleep reading half way trough it.

oh wow, an excuse to post a video of your dog, get over yourself will ye...

tk123

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

Yes, watch my blood thirsty monster at work
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrHtMo0l2TA&feature=youtu.be

See this is why I don't think I'd chance RAW - my guy would have tried to swallow the whole thing and half choke himself- not take sensible bites like your dog!

meoklmrk91

I used to give my dog cooked bones until I found out about the dangers of them. This was around the same time I started doing proper research into dog nutrition after my dog basically stopped growing as I was feeding him a generic brand of puppy food. It's unbelievable the literal rubbish that is in generic kibble. I would also agree rthat certain vets don't have a clue when if comes to dog nutrition, especially a lot of them push a certain brand which is very expensive and is in truth not much better than most generic brands. People think they are doing the best for their dog by buying it but don't realise that they could get a lot better for the same money and that they are being completely ripped off. So I think everyone should take their dogs nutrition into their own hands, do research and decide what is best for them and their budget.

As for raw bones my dog loves them, anf I think that they are good for him as they have good nutrional value, but like all other treats they should be given in moderation.

westies4ever

kylith wrote: »

Really? They're practically mush, I can crush them to powder in my fingers.

Imagine that 'mush' in your dogs tummy and intestine and then they drink a load of water - it can practically turn the mush to cement - and the that dog is in serious trouble.

star-pants

Chloroplast take a couple of days off - there's no need to be insulting, I'm sure I wasn't the only one to see what you said.

kylith

westies4ever wrote: »

Imagine that 'mush' in your dogs tummy and intestine and then they drink a load of water - it can practically turn the mush to cement - and the that dog is in serious trouble.

And there was me thinking it was safe cos they were so soft That's that over so.