Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2011-2012

Deise Tom

deise_girl wrote: »

So what was the Butlerstown, Geraldines match then?
Do Butlerstown remain junior?

Butlerstown move up to Intermediate next year and Dunhill drop down from Senior to Intermediate. Could be an interesting battle if the two clubs were paired together in the same group.

deisebhoy17

solarith wrote: »

I think everyone who doesn't benefit from All Ireland Tickets because they're on a divisional board agrees with you, but it's up to the clubs to vote in favour of ridding these boards. Until we do this our Intermediate/Junior standard will not improve at all. Intermediate, Intermediate Premier. It's so obvious. It'll be run more efficiently. It will improve standard. But will it ever happen with the shortsightedness and greed of some officers and clubs?

This is an argument which comes up here time and time again so no point boring everyone to tears with the same old arguments. What I will say is that there is a bit of a myth that its the Divisional Board Officers on a power trip that wont let it happen because it would undermine there own standing. Maybe in one or two cases that might well be.
But ultimately any change has to come from the clubs, and its the clubs that will never let this come to fruition. I know from my own club at home it was suggested at a meeting a year or two ago to propose such a motion at county congress and one or two of the die-hards nearly hit the roof. Any hint of a motion was completely thrown out before anyone even got a say. It opened my eyes and made me realise thsat this is what you'd be up against and short-sightedness and everyone looking after their own corner will always hold the GAA back.

Loughnane

Agree , good match and great ending. Thought Dungarvan were a better all round team.Its a pity some of the Lismore mentors did not show the same sportsmanship as their players did on the pitch. Their a great example of giving respect to officials.

solarith

deisebhoy17 wrote: »

This is an argument which comes up here time and time again so no point boring everyone to tears with the same old arguments. What I will say is that there is a bit of a myth that its the Divisional Board Officers on a power trip that wont let it happen because it would undermine there own standing. Maybe in one or two cases that might well be.
But ultimately any change has to come from the clubs, and its the clubs that will never let this come to fruition. I know from my own club at home it was suggested at a meeting a year or two ago to propose such a motion at county congress and one or two of the die-hards nearly hit the roof. Any hint of a motion was completely thrown out before anyone even got a say. It opened my eyes and made me realise thsat this is what you'd be up against and short-sightedness and everyone looking after their own corner will always hold the GAA back.

I agree fully with what you're saying. I believe my own club would prefer to keep it as it is and try to win divisional titles in Junior and Intermediate than go into a 2-tier Intermediate/Junior countywide system.

hardybuck

Ballinameela won the intermediate football final by a point on Saturday afternoon at the triple header in Walsh Park.

I think the standard was pretty good overall in what was a clean and fair game. Ballinameela were probably a little bit cuter and this probably got them through in the end. Phelan in midfield had a little bit of extra class in the final few mins and I think he went on to win man of the match.

DLS looked to have plenty of industry and a well drilled defence, but up front they looked a little blunt and short of ideas. I was quite surprised when I saw that Lee Hayes was on the bench given that I remember him playing with the county seniors a short few years back, and he scored two points from play when he was sprung from the bench in the last 10 mins.

In the intermediate attached final beforehand, interestingly it was DLS and Ballinameela as well. DLS won through here by three points, and looked to have a few players who were capable of playing a higher level - which will happen in a large club I suppose.

A great achievement for both clubs to have about 50 footballers each togged out on a Saturday afternoon - fair play to them.

thesultan

Loughnane wrote: »

Agree , good match and great ending. Thought Dungarvan were a better all round team.Its a pity some of the Lismore mentors did not show the same sportsmanship as their players did on the pitch. Their a great example of giving respect to officials.

What happened at the end of the game?

logbox

thesultan wrote: »

What happened at the end of the game?

The umpire allegedly " got a lash" after the match from a team official.

OldBoro

Appears someone involved used there head

thesultan

Will Shanahan get a ban or will it be slept under the carpet

zol 2

Jesus lads i'm missing all the fun!! How did i miss all this? I take it this must have happened afterwards? All joking aside if it is true its not a good thing to be showing minors,especially when there wasn't a dirty stroke in the whole game. There seems to be an un written rule here that the intercounty players are exempt from punishment in a large amount of cases,and that is not a good precedent to be setting as it will only lead to more trouble.

culbaire666

De ja vous, did they same sort of thing happen in a senior game between Lismore and Ballygunner a few years back.It seems some teams are always looking for somebody else to blame for their own failures.The Ref can,t always be at fault.Hope the Co. Board makes an example them.

Mountainlad

culbaire666 wrote: »

De ja vous, did they same sort of thing happen in a senior game between Lismore and Ballygunner a few years back.It seems some teams are always looking for somebody else to blame for their own failures.The Ref can,t always be at fault.Hope the Co. Board makes an example them.

I was at that game. To be fair, their complaints were fair enough, but members of the crowd coming down to attack an umpire and the referee is not something I could condone.

culbaire666

Was at the game too as a neutral it's still no excuse for Officals to be attacked some "high profile" team mentors should be setting a better example to the younger players.Surely the Board should have appointed an Easten ref but maybe there would have been an objection to it.

The Intruder

Mountainlad wrote: »

I was at that game. To be fair, their complaints were fair enough, but members of the crowd coming down to attack an umpire and the referee is not something I could condone.

I thought the ref was overly picky and gave some soft frees to both sides. Didn't overly favour either side but he did blow up the game after 2 and a half mins injury time after announcing 3 mins (by my watch) not to mention the fact that lismore had permission on the 21.

The ref was approached by lismore mentors/water carriers after the game as he left the field. I didn't see what exactly happened to the umpire (who happened to be the refs father) but I did see him kneeling on the 45. Did anyone see what exactly happened, I could speculate but don't want to go spreading rumors. All I can say is that neither the ref nor linesmen or other umpire came to his aid which lead me to believe there may not have been much to it.

deisedude

<mod note> Be careful what you say on the alleged incident. This is a public forum and there could be legal implications to what you say

Mountainlad

The Intruder wrote: »

I thought the ref was overly picky and gave some soft frees to both sides. Didn't overly favour either side but he did blow up the game after 2 and a half mins injury time after announcing 3 mins (by my watch) not to mention the fact that lismore had permission on the 21.

The ref was approached by lismore mentors/water carriers after the game as he left the field. I didn't see what exactly happened to the umpire (who happened to be the refs father) but I did see him kneeling on the 45. Did anyone see what exactly happened, I could speculate but don't want to go spreading rumors. All I can say is that neither the ref nor linesmen or other umpire came to his aid which lead me to believe there may not have been much to it.

I am talking about the game between Lismore and Ballygunner a few years ago now, just so nobody is confused. Probably should have let it lie, kind of irrelevant now anyway.

alllcounty

deisebhoy17 wrote: »

This is an argument which comes up here time and time again so no point boring everyone to tears with the same old arguments. What I will say is that there is a bit of a myth that its the Divisional Board Officers on a power trip that wont let it happen because it would undermine there own standing. Maybe in one or two cases that might well be.
But ultimately any change has to come from the clubs, and its the clubs that will never let this come to fruition. I know from my own club at home it was suggested at a meeting a year or two ago to propose such a motion at county congress and one or two of the die-hards nearly hit the roof. Any hint of a motion was completely thrown out before anyone even got a say. It opened my eyes and made me realise thsat this is what you'd be up against and short-sightedness and everyone looking after their own corner will always hold the GAA back.

It is not a myth. There are divisional board officers in Waterford and in particular those on the western board who have made it their intention that no improvements will be made to intermediate or junior structures by moving to all county leagues and championships. Motions have been put forward before by clubs looking for improvements to county structures and even though they were voted on and agreed upon by the clubs the county board made sure the proposals would not become a reality. Last year two clubs in the east namely Gaultier and Tramore put forward a motion to play the U21 football championship on an all county basis with a losers group for teams eliminated in the first round. This had been agreed upon when put to a vote by the clubs. However a few weeks later the county board had a meeting and it was decided this idea would not go any further. This is one example of a history of efforts made by the county board to keep the majority of clubs divided in Waterford at adult level and cater only for an exclusive number of senior clubs.
The chairman of the western board Eddie Cunningham and secretary Pat Grant have put it on record saying any move to all county structures would not be in waterford’s best interests and both have stood up in front of a room of club delegates telling them to vote against any proposals on the matter. It is also interesting to note that both these men come from senior clubs. This stinks of double standards where you have one rule for the bigger and more politically powerful senior clubs while the non senior clubs are forced to take part in divided county structures where the standard and quality of games is way below where it should be. The consequences of poorer quality divisional championships has meant the development of players from non senior clubs has been stifled from age 18 onwards. These players are playing in club games where they have more time on the ball, the pace of the game is slower and if they get a call up to the county panel their skill levels and sharpness is less than it should be.
This year our county senior panel had less than 10% coming from non senior clubs while for example in Kilkenny it is between 20 to 25% with quality players like Kieran Joyce, Walter Walsh, Aidan Fogerty etc coming through from intermediate and junior clubs. It is not a surprise to see this as all their club leagues and championships at senior, intermediate and junior are played in all county structures. To say it’s a myth our divisional board officers here in Waterford have not stood in the way of progress is wrong. Time and time again they have told lies and untruths to hold on to their positions as divisional officers. They have said clubs would lose out from a fall in sponsorship if an all county senior B or intermediate structures were introduced, that the majority of games would happen in the east and it would be the west who will lose out, they have said this is the way it always has been done and that it is not broken so don’t bother fix it.
Now I am not calling for an end to the two divisional boards but there is a need for an all county senior B and intermediate club championship. What I would like is to let the clubs who are not playing in all county leagues or championships be allowed make the decision if to move from divisional structures to all county structures. It is wrong for senior club delegates to dictate these structures for non senior clubs if their own clubs already compete in all county championships especially for senior club delegates that sit on divisional boards.

solarith

Unfortunately it won't work like that. It'll go to a vote where everyone can vote any way they want.

DeiseX

Same old cronies holding onto power via their divisional boards.

There would be no harm implementing an all county intermediate and junior premier competitions on a trial basis for 2 to 3 seasons. The Eastern and Western championships could be run as separate competitions on a straight knockout basis. This is just one suggestion to keep everyone happy as some of the old brigade would be happier to keep their power then abolish it for the greater good of the standard in the county as a whole.

alllcounty

solarith wrote: »

Unfortunately it won't work like that. It'll go to a vote where everyone can vote any way they want.

That’s the democratic way of doing it I suppose. But for divisional board officers that come from senior clubs to stand up and instruct a room of club delegates to vote no to a move to all county structures is wrong especially when their own clubs benefit from the advantages of better quality games playing against clubs from both sides of the county. If all clubs vote then let the decision be impartial from divisional officials who seek status from their own positions.

hardybuck

In terms of the voting, does anyone know if they are blind votes or a show of hands? The latter would open up the possibility of people being bullied into a decision that they don't support.

You'd hope that the delegates would have a mind of their own, and wouldn't be basing their decisions solely on representations made by people with vested interests.

solarith

hardybuck wrote: »

In terms of the voting, does anyone know if they are blind votes or a show of hands? The latter would open up the possibility of people being bullied into a decision that they don't support.

You'd hope that the delegates would have a mind of their own, and wouldn't be basing their decisions solely on representations made by people with vested interests.

Delegates make decision on how the club committee decides!

hardybuck

solarith wrote: »

Delegates make decision on how the club committee decides!

Forgive my ignorance of procedure, but does it go something like:

1) Motions are brought forward and communicated to the delegates in advance of the county board meeting

2) Delegates meet with their relevant club executive and get a decision

3) Delegate votes based on the decision taken by the club executive

If the above was the case, then it wouldn't matter who got up and spoke at the county board meetings as the delegate would already have received instruction from his or her club?

Mountainlad

Here lads, will ye give me a buzz when ye've finished talkin about this? Sound!

solarith

hardybuck wrote: »

Forgive my ignorance of procedure, but does it go something like:

1) Motions are brought forward and communicated to the delegates in advance of the county board meeting

2) Delegates meet with their relevant club executive and get a decision

3) Delegate votes based on the decision taken by the club executive

If the above was the case, then it wouldn't matter who got up and spoke at the county board meetings as the delegate would already have received instruction from his or her club?

Not on any committee, can't clarify exactly but I'm pretty sure what you've said is right.

solarith

Mountainlad wrote: »

Here lads, will ye give me a buzz when ye've finished talkin about this? Sound!

Yeah yeah you'd rather complain about someone we get it.

hardybuck

Mountainlad wrote: »

Here lads, will ye give me a buzz when ye've finished talkin about this? Sound!

Ah thanks! Forgive me for trying to familiarise myself with how the system operates!

In fairness I think that along with the current financial fiasco, the re-organisation of the club structures is probably the most important piece of business for the county board in the next couple of years. If the right decisions aren't made, and the running of the administration isn't right, we won't have a whole lot of positive discussion about our county and club teams in the future.

I'm a little bit worried to see an example of how a decision was taken by the clubs and then basically ignored by the board.

Mountainlad

hardybuck wrote: »

Ah thanks! Forgive me for trying to familiarise myself with how the system operates!

I'll consider it.

Deise Tom

alllcounty wrote: »

It is not a myth. There are divisional board officers in Waterford and in particular those on the western board who have made it their intention that no improvements will be made to intermediate or junior structures by moving to all county leagues and championships. Motions have been put forward before by clubs looking for improvements to county structures and even though they were voted on and agreed upon by the clubs the county board made sure the proposals would not become a reality. Last year two clubs in the east namely Gaultier and Tramore put forward a motion to play the U21 football championship on an all county basis with a losers group for teams eliminated in the first round. This had been agreed upon when put to a vote by the clubs. However a few weeks later the county board had a meeting and it was decided this idea would not go any further. This is one example of a history of efforts made by the county board to keep the majority of clubs divided in Waterford at adult level and cater only for an exclusive number of senior clubs.
The chairman of the western board Eddie Cunningham and secretary Pat Grant have put it on record saying any move to all county structures would not be in waterford’s best interests and both have stood up in front of a room of club delegates telling them to vote against any proposals on the matter. It is also interesting to note that both these men come from senior clubs. This stinks of double standards where you have one rule for the bigger and more politically powerful senior clubs while the non senior clubs are forced to take part in divided county structures where the standard and quality of games is way below where it should be. The consequences of poorer quality divisional championships has meant the development of players from non senior clubs has been stifled from age 18 onwards. These players are playing in club games where they have more time on the ball, the pace of the game is slower and if they get a call up to the county panel their skill levels and sharpness is less than it should be.
This year our county senior panel had less than 10% coming from non senior clubs while for example in Kilkenny it is between 20 to 25% with quality players like Kieran Joyce, Walter Walsh, Aidan Fogerty etc coming through from intermediate and junior clubs. It is not a surprise to see this as all their club leagues and championships at senior, intermediate and junior are played in all county structures. To say it’s a myth our divisional board officers here in Waterford have not stood in the way of progress is wrong. Time and time again they have told lies and untruths to hold on to their positions as divisional officers. They have said clubs would lose out from a fall in sponsorship if an all county senior B or intermediate structures were introduced, that the majority of games would happen in the east and it would be the west who will lose out, they have said this is the way it always has been done and that it is not broken so don’t bother fix it.
Now I am not calling for an end to the two divisional boards but there is a need for an all county senior B and intermediate club championship. What I would like is to let the clubs who are not playing in all county leagues or championships be allowed make the decision if to move from divisional structures to all county structures. It is wrong for senior club delegates to dictate these structures for non senior clubs if their own clubs already compete in all county championships especially for senior club delegates that sit on divisional boards.

I think the sooner the divisional boards are gone in Waterford the better. on my blog http://deiseabu.blogspot.ie/ i made reference to this in my last posting. Divisional boards in Waterford are well past their sell by date. We have what - about fifty clubs in Waterford. If one board cannot manage this amount of clubs then god help us. We have an all county minor championship with a few years now. Last sunday we had two clubs from the west of the county in the division one final. They throughout the year proved to everyone that they were the best two clubs in the county at this level, and it was only right that they got to the final. Is there anybody out there that could say that they did not deserve to be there. Well if the championships were played on a divisional basis, then one of them would not be in Fraher Field last Sunday.

Deise Tom

DeiseX wrote: »

Same old cronies holding onto power via their divisional boards.

There would be no harm implementing an all county intermediate and junior premier competitions on a trial basis for 2 to 3 seasons. The Eastern and Western championships could be run as separate competitions on a straight knockout basis. This is just one suggestion to keep everyone happy as some of the old brigade would be happier to keep their power then abolish it for the greater good of the standard in the county as a whole.

You have hit the nail on the head there, but i would say that any the length of time everything should be at a mininum is five years. If we want Divisional competitions then we could have leagues or something and maybe even a knockout senior compeition.