Should athletics events - runs - be allowed on public roads at all?

scholar007

Watched the debacle with the Galway marathon and it got me thinking if races / runs should be held on public roads at all. After all, public roads aren't the most suitable for runners, traffic etc. Then there is the added inconvenience for drivers who pay road tax to use said roads. Should such events be allowed when it creates inconvenience for others going about their daily lives?

RayCun

Yes.


Any more questions?

AngryHippie

thats funny. how exactly would you stop people running....? mow them down in your car ?

Stark

scholar007 wrote: »

Then there is the added inconvenience for drivers who pay road tax to use said roads.

Good job there aren't any drivers who pay "road tax", isn't there? :rolleyes: Come back when you've learnt more about how public roads are funded.

jeffontour

Yes they should be allowed.

I thought these sort of questions were the exclusive realm of the cycling forum.

captain P

jeffontour wrote: »

I thought these sort of questions were the exclusive realm of the cycling forum.

I was thinking that myself. In particular the whole "road tax" thing.

Surprised to see this question being asked when athletics events are mainly on weekend mornings and roads will only be closed for a few hours, if at all.

rovers_runner

scholar007 wrote: »

Watched the debacle with the Galway marathon and it got me thinking if races / runs should be held on public roads at all. After all, public roads aren't the most suitable for runners, traffic etc. Then there is the added inconvenience for drivers who pay road tax to use said roads. Should such events be allowed when it creates inconvenience for others going about their daily lives?

Ever hear of a RCO ?

scholar007

AngryHippie wrote: »

thats funny. how exactly would you stop people running....? mow them down in your car ?

I don't see being delayed as very funny. Nobody said anything about stopping people running. I'm sure there are wide footpaths somehwere that could be used. Its just that traffic and people on the road at the same time just doesn't seem very sensible, thats all.

RayCun

scholar007 wrote: »

Its just that traffic and people on the road at the same time just doesn't seem very sensible, thats all.

That's why the roads are often closed to traffic when people are running on them.

donothoponpop

jeffontour wrote: »

Yes they should be allowed.

I thought these sort of questions were the exclusive realm of the cycling forum.

Some of them publicly cycle without wearing helmets. As a road tax runner, that grinds my gears.

scholar007

rovers_runner wrote: »

Ever hear of a RCO ?

Oh now I see - Cars and traffic can't use the roads while people are running on them, oh thats ok then. :rolleyes:

jeffontour

donothoponpop wrote: »

As a road tax runner

As a road tax runner I like nothing more than feeling the wind blow through my helmet free hair.

I may however wear a helmet for my next road race in case a motorist chooses to plough through the field rather than suffer the delay! That ought to save me.

gottarun

scholar007 wrote: »

Its just that traffic and people on the road at the same time just doesn't seem very sensible, thats all.

I agree, keep the cars off the roads when people are running on them.

RayCun

Even better - while the cars are all pulled up waiting for the runners to go by, have the gardai check them. Anyone who hasn't paid their road tax should be arrested then and there!

donothoponpop

jeffontour wrote: »

As a road tax runner I like nothing more than feeling the wind blow through my helmet free hair.

And you expect bald runners like myself subsidize your mane-strutting-tax-evasion? There's just so much to complain about, so little time! :mad:

gerard65

I agree with the OP. Bloody joggers are everywhere now, and it seems that every week there are roads closed to accommodate these ridiculous races. Was sitting outside a pub last week watching one of these races, the state of some of the joggers in their vests and shorts, nearly dropped my ciggy in my pint. Crazy people, they'll all end up having heart attacks and costing the state millions to look after them. Should be banned.

Rantan

...your funny........while your at it lets ban:

slow moving machinery, farm animals, horses, bikes, walkers, bike walkers, dogs, dog walkers, tractors, funerals, pedestrians, oversized loads that need escorts, patricks day parades, slow drivers, old people who drive the wrong way round roundabouts, road bowling, roadworks, potholes, caravans, concerts, fairs, festivals, snow, accidents, The ploughing match, oxegen, ambulances, skyrides, film making, utility upgardes, a Royal visit, a Presidential visit, public rallies, demonstrations, riots, wars, The Puck Fair, The Rose of tralee, motor rallies etc etc etc
they are, after all, inconvieniences to drivers.... sorry if I'm being stupid but I think this post is a P*** take to be honest....

huskerdu

The road tax argument is rubbish.

Road tax is approx 400-600 a year for most drivers.

I pay WAY more than that in income tax, as do most people.

The amount of road tax collected doesn't come close to covering the
cost of building and maintaining the road network.

Most of the money comes from the sources of government income, that we all pay, not just owners of cars.

Therefore, the roads are not for the exclusive use of drivers of cars.

It isn't all that easy to get the roads closed for an event.

The womens mini-marathon was moved to a bank holiday because
the shop keepers of Dublin complained that they lost business on the day,
One of the reasons that the Dublin city marathon is on early on Oct Bank holiday Monday is because they wouldn't get permission to close the roads
on other days.

scholar007

Rantan wrote: »

...your funny........while your at it lets ban:

slow moving machinery (expected occasionally), farm animals (generally kept in a field as far as I know), horses (see farm animals), bikes (other road user), walkers (generally use the footpaths as far as I know), bike walkers (Wha dat?), dogs (see walkers), dog walkers (see walkers), tractors (see slow moving machinery), funerals (all respect shown to the dead - hearses as far as I know are road vehicles), pedestrians (see walkers), oversized loads that need escorts(see slow moving machinery), patricks day parades (On the piss and not driving that day), slow drivers, (expected hazard) old people who drive the wrong way round roundabouts (thats a bit ageist, but yet to encounter same), road bowling (wha dat?), roadworks(expected hazard), potholes(expected hazard), caravans (Hope they are being pulled and not parked), concerts (Do these take place on roads?), fairs(Do these take place on roads?), festivals(Do these take place on roads?), snow (weather phenomenon), accidents (happen), The ploughing match(Do these take place on roads?), oxegen(Do these take place on roads?), ambulances (They definitely don't hold up traffic!), skyrides(wha dat?), film making (You're joking shurely), utility upgardes(See roadworks), a Royal visit (Wasn't it great to see - liked her landrover), a Presidential visit (The only traffic he held up was coming out of the American embassy when the Beast hit the ramp), public rallies (ocasional inconvenience), demonstrations(ocasional inconvenience), riots(ocasional inconvenience), wars(ocasional inconvenience), The Puck Fair (Isnt the goat suspended high above the road), The Rose of tralee (totty tv), motor rallies (They're great aren't they) etc etc etc
they are, after all, inconvieniences to drivers.... sorry if I'm being stupid but I think this post is a P*** take (Your opinion and you are entitled to it just as I am entitled to mine to be honest....

jeffontour

donothoponpop wrote: »

And you expect bald runners like myself subsidize your mane-strutting-tax-evasion?

Yes. L'oreal is pricey and I'm worth it.

Rantan

scholar007 wrote: »

...mmuusst reessist...mmuusst bee sttrong.....

pconn062

scholar007 wrote: »

Watched the debacle with the Galway marathon and it got me thinking if races / runs should be held on public roads at all. After all, public roads aren't the most suitable for runners, traffic etc. Then there is the added inconvenience for drivers who pay road tax to use said roads. Should such events be allowed when it creates inconvenience for others going about their daily lives?

In fairness I have run three local races the last 3 weekends in a row and for two of them the roads weren't closed at all (well apart from the 5 minutes at the start when everyone was lining up, they were open for the whole race) and the other one the roads were only closed until the top three runners came in, it was a four mile race so max 25 mins?? So I don't think its as big an issue as your making it out to be.

scholar007

pconn062 wrote: »

In fairness I have run three local races the last 3 weekends in a row and for two of them the roads weren't closed at all (well apart from the 5 minutes at the start when everyone was lining up, they were open for the whole race) and the other one the roads were only closed until the top three runners came in, it was a four mile race so max 25 mins?? So I don't think its as big an issue as your making it out to be.

Just curious (genuinely) how did you keep vehicles and runners apart if there were no road closures?

pconn062

scholar007 wrote: »

Just curious (genuinely) how did you keep vehicles and runners apart if there were no road closures?

Runners had to strictly stick to one side of the road, the race organisers also picked routes that contained less traffic, i.e. back roads and roads that had footpaths, hard shoulders. I think this is common enough practice in local races where runners don't expect roads to be closed.

RacoonQueen

scholar007 wrote: »

Watched the debacle with the Galway marathon and it got me thinking if races / runs should be held on public roads at all. After all, public roads aren't the most suitable for runners, traffic etc. Then there is the added inconvenience for drivers who pay road tax to use said roads. Should such events be allowed when it creates inconvenience for others going about their daily lives?

I knew I shouldn't read this thread. Your inclusion of road tax made any other valid point you may or may not have made completely void. I really hope you're on a very unsuccessful wind up...

gottarun

scholar007 wrote: »

Just curious (genuinely) how did you keep vehicles and runners apart if there were no road closures?

Should use reverse polarity magnets to keep cars and runners apart. Then there'd be no rant.

Rantan

scholar007 wrote: »

Originally Posted by Rantan
...your funny........while your at it lets ban:

slow moving machinery (expected occasionally)(as are road races), farm animals (generally kept in a field as far as I know)(generally, but moved from field to field on the road as far as I know)(ever drive through the Curragh?), horses (see farm animals)(people often ride horses on roads, I have never seen someone ride a cow on the road), bikes (other road user)(as are road racers), walkers (generally use the footpaths as far as I know),(generally yes) bike walkers (Wha dat?)(Wha What now?), dogs (see walkers), dog walkers (see walkers), tractors (see slow moving machinery), funerals (all respect shown to the dead - hearses as far as I know are road vehicles),(yes so whats the problem with extending same respect to road racers?) pedestrians (see walkers), oversized loads that need escorts(see slow moving machinery), patricks day parades (On the piss and not driving that day)(drunk street fallers should be banned they get in the way when i run..), slow drivers, (expected hazard) old people who drive the wrong way round roundabouts (thats a bit ageist, but yet to encounter same), road bowling (wha dat?)(burly rural types pegging iron balls down small roads - roads are closed for same, rural types get on with lives)), roadworks(expected hazard), potholes(expected hazard), caravans (Hope they are being pulled and not parked), concerts (Do these take place on roads?), fairs(Do these take place on roads?), festivals(Do these take place on roads?)(there are associated road closures and delays), snow (weather phenomenon)races(human phemen..enm..enon...), accidents (happen), The ploughing match(Do these take place on roads?)( but there are associated road closures and delays), oxegen(Do these take place on roads?)(therre are assoc....), ambulances (They definitely don't hold up traffic!), skyrides(wha dat?)(family cycle thing where roads get closed and people move on with their lives) , film making (You're joking shurely)(people make films in streets and on roads - the roads get closed - people move on with their lives), utility upgardes(See roadworks), a Royal visit (Wasn't it great to see - liked her landrover), a Presidential visit (The only traffic he held up was coming out of the American embassy when the Beast hit the ramp)(dont be insane - half of Dublin was closed - didn;t see any fiestas weaving through college green for his speech)(really, public rallies (ocasional inconvenience)(as are road races), demonstrations(ocasional inconvenience), riots(ocasional inconvenience), wars(ocasional inconvenience), The Puck Fair (Isnt the goat suspended high above the road)(yes but the street is closed beneath him), The Rose of tralee (totty tv), motor rallies (They're great aren't they) etc etc etc
they are, after all, inconvieniences to drivers.... sorry if I'm being stupid but I think this post is a P*** take (Your opinion and you are entitled to it just as I am entitled to mine to be honest)(of course you are..I'm just sugesting that sporting occasions are just part of life and maybe you should get on with yours and not be bothering the nice people in this forum...)

jeffontour

scholar007 wrote: »

Just curious (genuinely) how did you keep vehicles and runners apart if there were no road closures?

Marshals(who in the vast majority of cases are volunteers) on all junctions, local community support having given advance warning of the event and taken input from the community, general courtesy from both runners and non runners on the roads at the time, local Garda support, being Irish and tolerant of the odd hold up be it cattle or lycra wearing wannabes.

The above and a whole lot of other common sense actions and reactions allow races take place on open roads without problems.

tHE vAGGABOND

I do love these "slow friday at the office" threads :P

Rantan

tHE vAGGABOND wrote: »

I do love these "slow friday at the office" threads :P

"slow" ... its at a standstill here ....f** this.. I'm off...see you losers!!!!

misterdeeds

Tut Tut moan moan is all people do these days :-(

jeffontour

gottarun wrote: »

Should use reverse polarity magnets to keep cars and runners apart.

Disaster waiting to happen. What if you issued the wrong polarity to a bunch of runners?

No way I'm risking driving through the Phoenix Park some Saturday only to have lycra clad weekend warriors being drawn off the path onto my bonnet! Although if there was some way of only issuing the ladies with the attracting magnets I think I might think differently..........

Fieldsman

Gerard 65 All those joggers are keeping their bodies healthy by running but I fear drinking too many pints and smoking your ciggy's its you that's inviting a heart attack

scholar007

Fieldsman wrote: »

Gerard 65 All those joggers are keeping their bodies healthy by running but I fear drinking too many pints and smoking your ciggy's its you that's inviting a heart attack

But are human beings really cut out for long distance running? (Maybe thats a whole new discussion) - I know if I attempted to punish my fabulous smokers physique (18 stone) over a marathon, I would need a cardiac ambulance on standby as well as an orthopaedic surgeon such would be the damage to my joints!

On a more serious note, what happens if a runner (God forbid) accidently stumbles in front of my 2 ton environment polluting motorised behemoth and is seriously injured? Who is responsible?

On a side note, have the yellow fluorescent vests been overused to the point that they are almost ignored? Everyone seems to have one these days and maybe this has lessened their effectiveness?

ultraman1

is scholar007 Ivan Yates?

scholar007

ultraman1 wrote: »

is scholar007 Ivan Yates?

I just love a sense of humour.

PaulieC

As a motor tax payer, I'm not sure if I even get a say in these matters. How does one go about paying some of this road tax that entitles one to an opinion ?

woodchopper

scholar007 wrote: »

I just love a sense of humour.

You know things are getting serious when Woodchopper enters the conversation. You are not a regular poster on the athletics forum but everybody is welcome to their point of view on this democratic website. Although there is no room for the GAA as that is not a sport. Your post opens a debate but where would the likes of Tunguska and RoadRunner do their Marathon tempos if the roads were closed?

scholar007

woodchopper wrote: »

You know things are getting serious when Woodchopper enters the conversation. You are not a regular poster on the athletics forum but everybody is welcome to their point of view on this democratic website. Although there is no room for the GAA as that is not a sport. Your post opens a debate but where would the likes of Tunguska and RoadRunner do their Marathon tempos if the roads were closed?

I thank you for your permission to post in this forum. Yes, we live in a democracy so free speech should be encouraged even when unpopular issues are raised. My concern is for the well being of runners and motorists when in proximity to each other. Motor vehicles and runners on the same roads at the same time. As someone once said, our ships and your ships in such close proximity, wars have begun that way Mr. Ambassador (or words to that effect).

ger664

scholar007 wrote: »

On a more serious note, what happens if a runner (God forbid) accidently stumbles in front of my 2 ton environment polluting motorised behemoth and is seriously injured? Who is responsible?

Driver is responsible which is why the roads should close so the cost of your insurance wont go up. You see road closures during races are for the safety of drivers insurance policies in case some mad 6.5s tone vest wearing fool runs in to them ?

MrCreosote

scholar007 wrote: »

But are human beings really cut out for long distance running? (Maybe thats a whole new discussion) - I know if I attempted to punish my fabulous smokers physique (18 stone) over a marathon, I would need a cardiac ambulance on standby as well as an orthopaedic surgeon such would be the damage to my joints!

Human beings are not really cut out for being overweight. Long distance running? No prob.

Sounds like you should stop harshing everyone's buzz, and join in...

scholar007

MrCreosote wrote: »

Human beings are not really cut out for being overweight. Long distance running? No prob.

Sounds like you should stop harshing everyone's buzz, and join in...

I say, thats not quite cricket old bean. I'll have you know I'm very sensitive about my weight. You've hurt my feelings now.

MrCreosote

scholar007 wrote: »

I say, thats not quite cricket old bean. I'll have you know I'm very sensitive about my weight. You've hurt my feelings now.

Sorry about that. Just the way you threw it out there randomly on a completely unrelated discussion made me think you didn't mind about it.

Cabaal

scholar007 wrote: »

Then there is the added inconvenience for drivers who pay road tax to use said roads.

No motorist in the whole of the rep of Ireland pays ROAD tax, you pay motor tax.

Motor Tax like all tax's goes into a general slush fund which is used to find everything from healthcare to schools. In short if I pay ANY tax then I have as much right to use the roads as anyone else.

Regardless of if I cycle, run, drive or run on them.

scholar007

MrCreosote wrote: »

Sorry about that. Just the way you threw it out there randomly on a completely unrelated discussion made me think you didn't mind about it.

No problem.

watercarrier

scholar007 wrote: »

I know if I attempted to punish my fabulous physique 18 stone over a marathon,?

or eddie yates

Bugsy2000

Would I be correct in saying that the majority of these irish roads which I am now paying tax for originally started out as small pedestrian tracks & trails which, over time and increased usage graduated to laneways where people used their bikes, then on to horse & cart etc etc. And now through natural progression we end up with all these metal motor monsters taking up our pedestrian walkways. I say we start the protest now, take back our rightful walkways & ban the cars to the pathways. Viva la revolution.......

scholar007

watercarrier wrote: »

or eddie yates

It's great to see that the intelligentsia have joined the debate........... :rolleyes:

Scholesy1981

okey doke, next time im racing, im not gonna wear a race number, im gonna pin the tax disc from my car onto my singlet instead

TheRoadRunner

woodchopper wrote: »

Your post opens a debate but where would the likes of Tunguska and RoadRunner do their Marathon tempos if the roads were closed?

No need to worry woody. I generally do my tempos on lush grass or the beautiful banks of the royal canal. In fact I never do a tempo on the roads. Sometimes on footpaths where I occasionally have to cross a road all right but nothing for you to worry your little head about. Night night and thanks for thinking of the little man like myself.

John_Rambo

I live on a road that frequently has running road races. There is a club nearby and I am sorry to say, my heart drops when there is a race on.

The behaviour of participants and the supporters is terrible.

Firstly there is the training. It happens during the night and they stand outside roaring encouragement at each other, I sometimes have to work shifts and no amount of asking them to keep it down works. Twice I have had to stop them urinating outside my house, once I was asking a man to stop and he turned around with his penis in his hand (our neighbourhood has plenty of kids). They won't run on the footpath and twice my elderly parents got roared at for turning on the main beams of car in a badly lit part of the road. They also got the finger from a charming lady steward.

The runners will run on the road with a line of cars behind them and won't move out of the way, this doesn't really bother me, but when someone beeps (a short friendly beep) to let them know there are cars behind them they are ignored or they get the finger. When they get out on to the main road they all run in the cycle path while the cyclists have to check for traffic and then overtake. Very very few of the runners were high vis jackets and most wear dark clothes.

The races are the worst. Some person actual graffitied "JUST DO IT" outside our gate on the road in huge letters with yellow spray paint. It looked terrible and took a neighbour and I hours to scrub off. After every race my garden is littered with food packets and empty bottles, they throw them over my hedge or stuff their rubbish in to the bushes. They block our road and won't let us drive to our house without an arguement, we have had friends walk a few blocks from our house to get to us as they were not allowed drive up to us. Often there are cars blocking our driveway and no matter how slow we drive (and I drive very slowly when a race is on), the stewards in their yellow jackets roar and shout at us to slow down, they are very unpleasant at the best of times.

I have emailed two members of the club, but got nothing back.

The lack of response from the club has me tempted to write a long letter to the main sponsor of the race.

Basically, the road runners in my area have no respect for the community.