Second Build, what am I missing and where can I improve?

VenomIreland

Apologies for the very large picture, is there anything I'm missing?

Unregistered.

VenomIreland wrote: »

Apologies for the very large picture, is there anything I'm missing?

The picture.

VenomIreland

Unregistered. wrote: »

The picture.

Damn, it was there when I posted

MarkR

Unregistered. wrote: »

The picture.

Bazinga

VenomIreland

Ok it's there now, sorry for the mishap.

trev179

not as far as i can see anyway bud looks good

M00lers

A CPU cooler if you plan on overclocking the 2500K wouldn't go amiss.

M00lers

A nonstock CPU cooler if you plan on overclocking the 2500K wouldn't go amiss.

VenomIreland

moolers2000 wrote: »

A nonstock CPU cooler if you plan on overclocking the 2500K wouldn't go amiss.

Done, forgot to add the NH-D14.

Here's the basket now:

Total build cost: €1,766.60 + €30 shipping
OCZ Agility 3 120GB 6,4cm (2,5") SATA3 €167.99
Intel Core i5-2500K Box, LGA1155 €175.48
MSI P67A-GD65 (B3), Intel P67, ATX, DDR3 €142.79
FRACTAL DESIGN Gehäuse DEFINE R3 Black Pearl €89.75
Seagate Barracuda Green 7200.12 1TB SATA 3 6GB/s €45.31
2 x Sapphire HD 6950 Dirt3, 2GB GDDR5 PCI-Express €223.44
8GB-Kit Corsair Vengeance Low Profile schwarz PC3-12800U CL9 €52.01
Samsung SH-B123L Retail €57.49
ASUS Xonar DX 7.1, PCIe x1 (90-YAA060-1UAN00Z) €52.82
Corsair Enthusiast Series TX850 V2 €99.83
LG Flatron E2750V €293.75
Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64-Bit (SB-Version) €74.51
Noctua NH-D14, Sockel AM2/AM2+/AM3/775/1366/1156 €67.99

M00lers

Very nice cooler, does it fit in the case okay? Just curious.
I've just installed it's baby brother NH-U9B SE2 in a HTPC/Gaming build myself.

Unregistered.

Monitor fail. 27" @ 1080p. Nothing special about it. Might as well round the budget up to 2K and go for something like this.

Monotype

On account of OCZ's increasingly bad record, I'd go for the Crucial M4 instead. It seems to be the most reliable drive of this generation. The speeds don't look as good but you also have to account for OCZ's inflated figures.

You don't need an 850W PSU. 650-800 would do. Including overclocking.

deconduo

-Crucial M4 is a better SSD
-Spinpoint F3 is a better Hard Drive
-Ridiculously expensive RAM, when this or even this will give the same performance.
-PSU is overkill, XFX 650W is enough
-Heatsink is probably overkill, Mugen 3 is probably enough to max out on overclocking. The Noctua would be a bit quieter though if that mattered, though I wouldn't pay twice the price for it.

VenomIreland

moolers2000 wrote: »

Very nice cooler, does it fit in the case okay? Just curious.
I've just installed it's baby brother NH-U9B SE2 in a HTPC/Gaming build myself.

I'm certain I've seen the cooler in this case before, it is a little close but it fits.

Unregistered. wrote: »

Monitor fail. 27" @ 1080p. Nothing special about it. Might as well round the budget up to 2K and go for something like this.

I didn't realise the monitor was only 1080, reading comprehension fail on my part, and I didn't realise that an IPS panel of that size was anywhere near that price, always assumed they were much more expensive, thank you.

Monotype wrote: »

On account of OCZ's increasingly bad record, I'd go for the Crucial M4 instead. It seems to be the most reliable drive of this generation. The speeds don't look as good but you also have to account for OCZ's inflated figures.

You don't need an 850W PSU. 650-800 would do. Including overclocking.

Swapped the PSU and SSD, I also read more about the OCZ Agility and it seems there are some problems with it anyway.

deconduo wrote: »

-Crucial M4 is a better SSD
-Spinpoint F3 is a better Hard Drive
-Ridiculously expensive RAM, when this or even this will give the same performance.
-PSU is overkill, XFX 650W is enough
-Heatsink is probably overkill, Mugen 3 is probably enough to max out on overclocking. The Noctua would be a bit quieter though if that mattered, though I wouldn't pay twice the price for it.

-Swapped, thank you
-I didn't know the F3's were still in stock, thought they were discontinued or something.
-How I missed RAM for that price I do not know, again, thank you.
-If you guys say it's enough, then it most certainly should e, thank you yet again.
-Upon checking about that cooler it seems you are right. Sound is not a problem as I have installed the Scythe Mugen 2B in a friend's PC and it is amazingly quiet, so I assume this one is also.

Thank you all very much, I'll post the current basket as soon as I commit the changes.

VenomIreland

Total build cost: €2,031.49 + €30 shipping
Intel Core i5-2500K Box, LGA1155 €175.48
MSI P67A-GD65 (B3), Intel P67, ATX, DDR3 €142.79
FRACTAL DESIGN Gehäuse DEFINE R3 Black Pearl €89.75
2 x Sapphire HD 6950 Dirt3, 2GB GDDR5 PCI-Express €223.44
Samsung SH-B123L Retail €57.49
ASUS Xonar DX 7.1, PCIe x1 (90-YAA060-1UAN00Z) €52.82
Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64-Bit (SB-Version) €74.51
Crucial M4 128GB SSD 6,4cm (2,5") €165.89
Samsung SpinPoint F3 1000GB, SATA II (HD103SJ) €45.14
8GB-Kit G.Skill RipJaws-X PC3-10667U CL9 €38.75
XFX PRO650W Core Edition Full Wired Power Supply €67.64
Scythe Mugen 3, für alle Sockel geeignet €33.80
Dell U2711 €640.55

So, how does it look now?

GEasy

VenomIreland wrote: »

Total build cost: €2,031.49 + €30 shipping
Intel Core i5-2500K Box, LGA1155 €175.48
MSI P67A-GD65 (B3), Intel P67, ATX, DDR3 €142.79
FRACTAL DESIGN Gehäuse DEFINE R3 Black Pearl €89.75
2 x Sapphire HD 6950 Dirt3, 2GB GDDR5 PCI-Express €223.44
Samsung SH-B123L Retail €57.49
ASUS Xonar DX 7.1, PCIe x1 (90-YAA060-1UAN00Z) €52.82
Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64-Bit (SB-Version) €74.51
Crucial M4 128GB SSD 6,4cm (2,5") €165.89
Samsung SpinPoint F3 1000GB, SATA II (HD103SJ) €45.14
8GB-Kit G.Skill RipJaws-X PC3-10667U CL9 €38.75
XFX PRO650W Core Edition Full Wired Power Supply €67.64
Scythe Mugen 3, für alle Sockel geeignet €33.80
Dell U2711 €640.55

So, how does it look now?

Christ on a bicycle

Serephucus

Not bad. Only one storage HDD though? Am I the only one here that uses more than 2TB in his machine?

Let me know how you find that monitor if/when you get it. I've been thinking about upgrading my U2410.

Also, you might want to have a look at this over the Xonar DX. It's more expensive, but it's what I've settled on, after considering the DX (and others) for some time. Waiting on cashflow to even out a bit before I can actually buy it though.

VenomIreland

Serephucus wrote: »

Not bad. Only one storage HDD though? Am I the only one here that uses more than 2TB in his machine?

Let me know how you find that monitor if/when you get it. I've been thinking about upgrading my U2410.

Also, you might want to have a look at this over the Xonar DX. It's more expensive, but it's what I've settled on, after considering the DX (and others) for some time. Waiting on cashflow to even out a bit before I can actually buy it though.

I think 1TB will last me quite a while, I have a 1TB drive in my current PC and with all my games on Steam installed I still have like 300GB of space left, and I don't plan to transfer them all over (waste of space when I don't play them all, even if I have the space for them).

Serephucus

VenomIreland wrote: »

I think 1TB will last me quite a while, I have a 1TB drive in my current PC and with all my games on Steam installed I still have like 300GB of space left, and I don't plan to transfer them all over (waste of space when I don't play them all, even if I have the space for them).

Fair enough. I suppose I could make do with a 1TB drive if I ported all my media to a home server, but I don't have enough to justify the expense (or extra electricity) yet.

By the way, if you do happen to like that sound card, Pixmania are the cheapest place for the Forte at the moment. €120.

VenomIreland

Serephucus wrote: »

Fair enough. I suppose I could make do with a 1TB drive if I ported all my media to a home server, but I don't have enough to justify the expense (or extra electricity) yet.

By the way, if you do happen to like that sound card, Pixmania are the cheapest place for the Forte at the moment. €120.

I would go for that sound card, but it's a bit pricey for me, as I'm not an audiophile (yet).

Tea_Bag

any thoughts on going z68?

if money is no real object, and for not much more money, you could go for a z68 gen3 (with pcie 3.0) which puts you in a great position when ivy bridge comes out.

HWVS doesn't stock either though

you'd be looking for an MSI z68 gd65 (or gd80) gen3.0

or the Asrock z68 extreme4 gen3.0

VenomIreland

Tea_Bag wrote: »

any thoughts on going z68?

if money is no real object, and for not much more money, you could go for a z68 gen3 (with pcie 3.0) which puts you in a great position when ivy bridge comes out.

HWVS doesn't stock either though

you'd be looking for an MSI z68 gd65 (or gd80) gen3.0

or the Asrock z68 extreme4 gen3.0

I thought about it but since I have no need to use the integrated graphics or the SSD Caching I decided to stick with P67.

Serephucus

VenomIreland wrote: »

I thought about it but since I have no need to use the integrated graphics or the SSD Caching I decided to stick with P67.

No SSD caching? That drive would be great for it. 60GB for a cache to speed up your games / apps, and devote the rest to an OS drive. It is only about a tenner more for a Z68 board...

VenomIreland

Serephucus wrote: »

No SSD caching? That drive would be great for it. 60GB for a cache to speed up your games / apps, and devote the rest to an OS drive. It is only about a tenner more for a Z68 board...

Hmm, I think I might get 2 60GB instead of partitioning one and do just that, I'll have to sleep on it though.

deconduo

Serephucus wrote: »

No SSD caching? That drive would be great for it. 60GB for a cache to speed up your games / apps, and devote the rest to an OS drive. It is only about a tenner more for a Z68 board...

Actually the SSD caching works best with 20-30GB drives. If you have a 60GB drive then you are better off keeping as a stand alone drive as it will have much better performance that way. Its big enough to hold your OS + a few games/applications.

VenomIreland

deconduo wrote: »

Actually the SSD caching works best with 20-30GB drives. If you have a 60GB drive then you are better off keeping as a stand alone drive as it will have much better performance that way. Its big enough to hold your OS + a few games/applications.

Well, I planned to store most of my games on the HDD as it would take up quite a large amount of space (I have a large amount of games that I play regularly enough on steam), I might get a smallish SSD for a cache and a 60GB SSD for the OS if I decide to go that route.

Serephucus

deconduo wrote: »

Actually the SSD caching works best with 20-30GB drives. If you have a 60GB drive then you are better off keeping as a stand alone drive as it will have much better performance that way. Its big enough to hold your OS + a few games/applications.

You won't get better performance with a 20GB drive (assuming MLC); the reason you might see better results is that drives that small are usually SLC, which are faster.

deconduo

Serephucus wrote: »

You won't get better performance with a 20GB drive (assuming MLC); the reason you might see better results is that drives that small are usually SLC, which are faster.

No I wasn't trying to say you'd get better performance with smaller drives, rather that SSD caching makes more sense with smaller drives. With a 20GB drive you can't fit anything more than Windows on it (if even that) so SSD caching is awesome. Gives you a nice boost over a mechanical drive for everything you wouldn't be able to fit on it.

However a 60GB has enough room for your OS + most commonly used games + applications. If you were to use SSD caching then, you would suffer a drop in performance over using the SSD as a standalone drive. In that case its not really worth it anymore.

Serephucus

That's... confusing. You make it sound like you're using SSD caching on the SSD.

I haven't used it, so I don't know, but I suppose if Venom had the 128GB SSD, he could change the cache size on the fly, see what suits best.

deconduo

Serephucus wrote: »

That's... confusing. You make it sound like you're using SSD caching on the SSD.

I haven't used it, so I don't know, but I suppose if Venom had the 128GB SSD, he could change the cache size on the fly, see what suits best.

Sorry I'm tired, I'll try to make it a bit clearer :P

Basically if you use SSD caching you lose performance over a standalone SSD. Thats fine for small SSDs where you wouldn't be able to fit more than the OS on them anyway. However with larger drives where you can fit a significant amount of stuff on them you are better off leaving it as a standalone drive.

Serephucus

Ah, I see. Point taken.

Then again, when you have 600GB of games, would it not be better to have them all sped up 2x, versus your five most-played sped up 5x? I suppose it's personal preference. I don't know enough about it to know how much either scenario would increase performance.

Fluffy88

Well with the way SSD caching works I you play a lot of different games off your HDD all the time, you actually probably wouldn't see a huge improvement in performance. SSD caching takes the most used files on the HDD and caches or stores them on the SSD so they can be accessed faster. If you constantly change games and rarely play the same one twice in a row then you might get very little benefit from using SRT. Using SRT you will see a big jump in performance when you do the same thing twice. So if say photoshop was on the HDD and you opened it, the OS will have to load photoshop from the HDD. SRT will then take photoshop and place it on the SSD because it has been used. When you close photoshop and open it again, the OS will now only have to load it from the SSD meaning it will open in seconds! My point is, if you play so many different games there might be little to be gained from SRT as the SSD won't be able to cache them all, only the most recently or most commonly used one's.

VenomIreland

I've decided to not go with SRT, since, as Fluffy88 pointed out, I wouldn't get much benefit from it anyway and the SLC SSD's I've read about are expensive, and I only planned to spend around 2k max.

Serephucus

Fluffy88 wrote: »

Well with the way SSD caching works I you play a lot of different games off your HDD all the time, you actually probably wouldn't see a huge improvement in performance. SSD caching takes the most used files on the HDD and caches or stores them on the SSD so they can be accessed faster. If you constantly change games and rarely play the same one twice in a row then you might get very little benefit from using SRT. Using SRT you will see a big jump in performance when you do the same thing twice. So if say photoshop was on the HDD and you opened it, the OS will have to load photoshop from the HDD. SRT will then take photoshop and place it on the SSD because it has been used. When you close photoshop and open it again, the OS will now only have to load it from the SSD meaning it will open in seconds! My point is, if you play so many different games there might be little to be gained from SRT as the SSD won't be able to cache them all, only the most recently or most commonly used one's.

Either way, it basically comes down to having your top six or seven games boosted. The way I see it, installing your most-played games on an SSD will obviously have them loaded at SSD speeds, and your other games will be loaded however quickly a regular HDD loads them. What happens when your tastes change? Do you uninstall game X from the SSD to install game Y?

If you use SRT, you still have your top games loaded at (almost) SSD speeds, but if you get really into another game for a week or so, and play it 100 times, 99 of those will be at SSD speeds; you never have to worry about uninstalling/reinstalling on the SSD because of space issues, it's essentially automated.

Just my €0.02.

Fluffy88

That's very true and I wouldn't say using SRT is a bad idea, I was more just trying to explain how SRT works for the OP so he could make a more informed decision. I know my explanation wasn't great and if the technology is any good(which it probably is) it will be able to figure out what's the most important stuff to keep on the SSD after a few runs so most likely it would show an improvement.

It really is down to personal preference as you pointed out, so the more informed Venom is the better he can make a decision

VenomIreland

Serephucus wrote: »

Either way, it basically comes down to having your top six or seven games boosted. The way I see it, installing your most-played games on an SSD will obviously have them loaded at SSD speeds, and your other games will be loaded however quickly a regular HDD loads them. What happens when your tastes change? Do you uninstall game X from the SSD to install game Y?

If you use SRT, you still have your top games loaded at (almost) SSD speeds, but if you get really into another game for a week or so, and play it 100 times, 99 of those will be at SSD speeds; you never have to worry about uninstalling/reinstalling on the SSD because of space issues, it's essentially automated.

Just my €0.02.

Hmm, maybe I'll reconsider.

I hate being indecisive.

VenomIreland

After thinking overnight I have decided I will go for 2 64GB SSD's, one for cache and the other as a permanent drive for programs and the OS.
I realise I will not see a boost to the OS or other programs but I will most definitely see a boost on all the game I play, which will all be stored on the Hard Drive.

Here is the basket now:
Total build cost: €2,057.46 + €30 shipping
Intel Core i5-2500K Box, LGA1155 €175.48
FRACTAL DESIGN Gehäuse DEFINE R3 Black Pearl €89.75
2 x Sapphire HD 6950 Dirt3, 2GB GDDR5 PCI-Express €223.44
Samsung SH-B123L Retail €57.49
ASUS Xonar DX 7.1, PCIe x1 (90-YAA060-1UAN00Z) €52.82
Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64-Bit (SB-Version) €74.51
Samsung SpinPoint F3 1000GB, SATA II (HD103SJ) €45.14
8GB-Kit G.Skill RipJaws-X PC3-10667U CL9 €38.75
XFX PRO650W Core Edition Full Wired Power Supply €67.64
Scythe Mugen 3, für alle Sockel geeignet €33.80
Dell U2711 €640.55
MSI Z68A-GD65 (B3), Intel Z68, ATX, DDR3 €151.97
2 x Crucial M4 64GB SSD 6,4cm (2,5") €91.34

EDIT: Actually, are there any good <60GB SSD's? I heard SRT only works up to 60GB, but the M4 is 64GB.
EDIT2: Nevermind, just read more about it and anything over 64GB is split into a separate drive.

Monotype

Doesn't the 128GB have higher write speeds than the 64GB?

I don't think the caching is really worth it. If you're switch very regularly between games, the cache will be changing around so you won't avail of the advantages anyway. I think you should just put aside 50GB for the regular games. If your tastes change, you can move them. Then again, the caching does save you some work of doing this
yourself.

If you do go for caching, I think you should just get the 128GB drive and allocate 28GB or something. You can always try it out and see how it goes. I presume you can delete it at any time.

IMO, if you really have a load of games, get 2 or 3 500GB F3s and put them in RAID 0.

VenomIreland

Monotype wrote: »

Doesn't the 128GB have higher write speeds than the 64GB?

I don't think the caching is really worth it. If you're switch very regularly between games, the cache will be changing around so you won't avail of the advantages anyway. I think you should just put aside 50GB for the regular games. If your tastes change, you can move them. Then again, the caching does save you some work of doing this
yourself.

IMO, if you really have a load of games, get 2 or 3 500GB F3s and put them in RAID 0.

Hmm, I never considered RAID. I tend to play 3 or 4 games regularly with some other games thrown in depending on my mood, I think I'll consider RAID.

So many options!

EDIT: I didn't know you could use a partition for SRT, I might go ahead with the 128GB Drive and just allocate about 20-30GB to accelerate the HDD.

Serephucus

VenomIreland wrote: »

I didn't know you could use a partition for SRT, I might go ahead with the 128GB Drive and just allocate about 20-30GB to accelerate the HDD.

Hmm... I seem to remember that being... the first thing I said! :P

Assuming you have the free space, I'd imagine you can just increase/decrease the size of the cache as you like, so you can try a few different sizes, and see what works best for you.

Personally, I wouldn't go for RAID. It's actually more than twice as risky, because you not only have to factor in each of the drives, and their possibility of failure, you also have to factor in the controller. A friend of mine recently tried RAID, and though the drives worked perfectly on their own, there was something wrong with his controller than resulted in data randomly being lost. 300GB of lost data later and he's back with JBOD.

jack888

Wow. This build is almost exactly the same build as mine, Im even using dual monitors with the u2711. Amazing monitor.

You will need to buy two extra case fans. Im running crossfire dirt3 6950s(same case also) and had some heat issues when running the likes of crysis on 2560 x 1440. Heat on one of the card was reaching 85 degrees. Once I put in side fan the heat now maxes at about 72 degrees.

VenomIreland

Serephucus wrote: »

Hmm... I seem to remember that being... the first thing I said! :P

I must have misread your post, sorry

Tea_Bag

To use srt and boot from an SSD it has to be tricked into RAID which means no TRIM..

VenomIreland

Tea_Bag wrote: »

To use srt and boot from an SSD it has to be tricked into RAID which means no TRIM..

Are you certain about that? If so, no cache for me then.

Tea_Bag

VenomIreland wrote: »

Are you certain about that? If so, no cache for me then.

either no cache, or a cheapo SSD alongside your good m4 will do the trick.

it was the case when i was reading up on it when z68 first came out. you had to trick the SSD into a raid setup, cause partitions didnt work.

VenomIreland

Tea_Bag wrote: »

either no cache, or a cheapo SSD alongside your good m4 will do the trick.

it was the case when i was reading up on it when z68 first came out. you had to trick the SSD into a raid setup, cause partitions didnt work.

Alright then, know of any good cheap and small SSD's?

Tea_Bag

VenomIreland wrote: »

Alright then, know of any good cheap and small SSD's?

hmm a quick search on amazon, HWVS and adverts.ie isnt bringing up any cheapo ~30gb SSD's

cheapest good SSD would be €75 so probably not worth the money to you. is TRIM so important on these newer gen SSDs liek the m4?

VenomIreland

Tea_Bag wrote: »

hmm a quick search on amazon, HWVS and adverts.ie isnt bringing up any cheapo ~30gb SSD's

cheapest good SSD would be €75 so probably not worth the money to you. is TRIM so important on these newer gen SSDs liek the m4?

Well, I'd like TRIM, but I suppose it's not essential, as the SSD will probably reach it's maximum writes long after I'm done with it. I think I'll get the 128GB M4 and 1TB Spinpoint, and then partition the M4 to use it partially as a cache.

EDIT: Well, I might do that, I might just leave the SSD for the OS and have no cache, depending on how tricky the install is.

VenomIreland

Going to order this sometime in the next few days, I've decided to just go with a 128GB SSD for Windows (and possibly Linux) and the HDD for all my games.

To be honest, I don't mind that the games won't see a benefit from the SSD, as everything else will.

Final Basket, assuming no last minute changes.
Total build cost: €2,031.49 + €30 shipping
Intel Core i5-2500K Box, LGA1155 €175.48
MSI P67A-GD65 (B3), Intel P67, ATX, DDR3 €142.79
FRACTAL DESIGN Gehäuse DEFINE R3 Black Pearl €89.75
2 x Sapphire HD 6950 Dirt3, 2GB GDDR5 PCI-Express €223.44
Samsung SH-B123L Retail €57.49
ASUS Xonar DX 7.1, PCIe x1 (90-YAA060-1UAN00Z) €52.82
Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64-Bit (SB-Version) €74.51
Crucial M4 128GB SSD 6,4cm (2,5") €165.89
Samsung SpinPoint F3 1000GB, SATA II (HD103SJ) €45.14
8GB-Kit G.Skill RipJaws-X PC3-10667U CL9 €38.75
XFX PRO650W Core Edition Full Wired Power Supply €67.64
Scythe Mugen 3, für alle Sockel geeignet €33.80
Dell U2711 €640.55

VenomIreland

Anything I should probably change? I'm planning on ordering tomorrow morning.

Serephucus

Definitely not an NVIDIA guy? Overclocked, a 580 will get you more performance than two 6950s, without all the Crossfire issues.