Arsene "has a great eye of a bargain" Wenger's worst eleven

irishturkey

I just started a thread about Arsenal woes when it comes to holding onto players and something struck me. For all the incredible gems Wenger finds, he has made some absolute stuff ups. Yes, go ahead and point out that I'm a Liverpool fan and have had to endure everything from Torben Piechnik to Bruno Cheyrou and Antonio Nunez but my defence is that neither Souness, Houllier or Benitez are known for their eye for a bargain. Obviously every manager is going to sign a dud that everyone had great expectations for but when I look at Wengers possible worst 11.... wow!! And this is just off the top of my head....

GK Manuel Almunia
RB Oleg Luzhny
CB Igor Stepanovs
CB Pascal Cygan
LB Mikael Silvestre
RM Jermaine Pennant
CM Gilles Grimandi
CM Remi Garde
LM Luis Boa Morte
CF Christopher "I'm George Weahs cousin" Wreh
CF Jeremie Aliadiere

Luzhny did ok at Kiev, never cut it in England.
Silvestre had potential... before he left Inter
Pennant could nearly be forgiven but his attitude gets him a place here

The rest speak for themselves I think.

IvySlayer

Pascal Cygan played over 60 games in an Arsenal shirt...He wasn't THAT bad. I'd have Senderos ahead of him.

No Francis Jeffers? Justin Hoyte?

Xavi6

irishturkey wrote: »

The rest speak for themselves I think.

Really?

GK Manuel Almunia

Nonsense

Carcharodon

I am sure you could find an equally bad eleven for every football manager in regards to their signings.

But isn't getting some duds when looking for low cost gems just the nature of the beast.

#15

I'd say the combined fee for that 11 is pretty small.

Over a 15 year period, every manager will have made signings that didn't work out.
I think you're setting too high a standard - I would say Wenger compares favourably against most managers in the transfer market.

A better way to judge his ability to find bargains is to list the good signings he has made and then talk about which signings could be called 'bargains'.

massdebater

That 11 would probably still beat Liverpool :pac:

Corvo

Francis Jeffers must get a mention. Brutal and he cost a pretty penny...

daveyboy_1ie

I think to win what Wenger has compared to what he has spent overall it’s pretty clear he has an amazing eye for talent. Obviously.

Sgt Pepper 64

irishturkey wrote: »

I just started a thread about Arsenal woes when it comes to holding onto players and something struck me. For all the incredible gems Wenger finds, he has made some absolute stuff ups. Yes, go ahead and point out that I'm a Liverpool fan and have had to endure everything from Torben Piechnik to Bruno Cheyrou and Antonio Nunez but my defence is that neither Souness, Houllier or Benitez are known for their eye for a bargain. Obviously every manager is going to sign a dud that everyone had great expectations for but when I look at Wengers possible worst 11.... wow!! And this is just off the top of my head....

GK Manuel Almunia
RB Oleg Luzhny
CB Igor Stepanovs
CB Pascal Cygan
LB Mikael Silvestre
RM Jermaine Pennant
CM Gilles Grimandi
CM Remi Garde
LM Luis Boa Morte
CF Christopher "I'm George Weahs cousin" Wreh
CF Jeremie Aliadiere

Luzhny did ok at Kiev, never cut it in England.
Silvestre had potential... before he left Inter
Pennant could nearly be forgiven but his attitude gets him a place here

The rest speak for themselves I think.

Bit unfair, the same can be said for any manager, including the most successful manager of the modern era - SAF

mike65

the legend that is Frannie Jeffers.

Gileadi

Francis Jeffers, a fox in the box....


Try say that with a straight face, its impossible

Mitch Connor

He has been at the club 15 years - of course there will be a 'first 11' team of stinkers. You could throw up an equally bad, if not worse, team of Ferguson/United players.

Most of the players listed were poor enough, but then again - most were bought fairly cheaply and only bought as squad players as well, so their arguable lack of quality isn't that big a stick to beat Wenger with.

I'd say the purchases of Richard Wright, Reyes, Jeffers would be bigger issues as they were bought for big enough money as first team players, and failed.

u140acro3xs7dm

He doesnt seem too successful when paying bigger money for players. Richard Wright never really worked either I think he cost 6 or 7 million. Look at his signings over 10 million, Reyes, Arshavin, Wallcot. while they are not terrible players they never really blossomed. In fairness Henry was a great buy, looks like he will make a nice profit on Nasri too, Wiltord wasnt too bad either. Hit and miss like most managers although attention is never drawn to it the way it is with Fergie or Liverpool managers.

gimmick

Didn't Pennant come though Arsenals academy?

I seem to have a memory that grimandi was a decent squad player.

Richard Wright would have to be considered for that ahead of Almunia.

Its a silly thread anyway. Wenger has been in charge of Arsenal now for 15 years. Of course there are going to be a bunch of duds. Every manager signs a few duds, even Fergie. Even Guardiola and Mourinho. And the longer a guy is in charge, its easier to make a starting XI of flops.

Look at Rafa ffs

Mitch Connor

gimmick wrote: »

Didn't Pennant come though Arsenals academy?

I seem to have a memory that grimandi was a decent squad player.

Richard Wright would have to be considered for that ahead of Almunia.

Its a silly thread anyway. Wenger has been in charge of Arsenal now for 15 years. Of course there are going to be a bunch of duds. Every manager signs a few duds, even Fergie. Even Guardiola and Mourinho. And the longer a guy is in charge, its easier to make a starting XI of flops.

Look at Rafa ffs

No, they bought Pennant from Notts County I think, or maybe they loaned him there... they certainly signed him (for big 'teenager' money at the time I think)

u140acro3xs7dm

Mitch Connor wrote: »

No, they bought Pennant from Notts County I think, or maybe they loaned him there... they certainly signed him (for big 'teenager' money at the time I think)

They signed him from Notts County as a 15 year old. i think it cost over a million.

Edit: he cost 2 Million and played 12 games according to Wiki.

smilerf

Wreh got some important goals and grimandi was a reliable squad player who could do a job

TimeToShine

Torres/Shevchenko seperately cost chelsea more than that 11.

jesus_thats_gre

#15 wrote: »

I'd say the combined fee for that 11 is pretty small.

Over a 15 year period, every manager will have made signings that didn't work out.
I think you're setting too high a standard - I would say Wenger compares favourably against most managers in the transfer market.

A better way to judge his ability to find bargains is to list the good signings he has made and then talk about which signings could be called 'bargains'.

Indeed. You could pull a list like that for every single manager. Obviously fashionable to criticise everything Wenger related again.

sundula

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Indeed. You could pull a list like that for every single manager. Obviously fashionable to criticise everything Wenger related again.

Thats true, any manager at a club the length that Wenger is will have bought several duds.

Maybe the bigger discussion with Wenger is the fact that his 'eye' for finding quality has lessened with time. That maybe due to the fact that other clubs have established world wide scouting networks and this has limited his ability to get what he wants or maybe the talent as he see's it is just not out there or maybe the talent does'nt want to sign for him. If you think of some his sucess in the transfer market it has been really amazing and very financially lucrative for Arsenal, Anelka, Viera, Overmars, Petit, Pires, Ljungberg, Nasri, Toure, Adebayor. Even the likes of Song and Eboue have been decent squad players for the money they cost.

I do think that in the past few seasons the quality of his signings has dipped considerably.

TaosHum

Gilles Grimandi I thought was decent enough.

Trashbat

Grimandi was a great squad man and servant to the club.

Chris Wreh scored in a 1-0 win against Bolton in 1998. Assuming everyother result after that went the same way, we wouldnt have won the league that year without that goal. He also scored in a 1-0 FA cup semi final win against wolves that year. Not bad considering we paid a pittance for him. Surely Jeffers, Kaba Diawara, Davor Suker or Fabiano Caballero would fit into the bad striker category better.

Cygan wasn't actually that bad for a back up player and Aliadiere was a youth signing.

In fact, none of that team were brought in as first team squad and the total cost is probably between 10-15 million.

So there's no real arguement, is there?

Eire-Dearg

Cygan wasn't that bad as far as I can remember. He got shat on because of his abnormally sized head.

Pennant came through the academy. Aliadiere hardly played and was also a youngster.

Eire-Dearg

Cygan wasn't that bad as far as I can remember. He got shat on because of his abnormally sized head.

Pennant came through the academy. Aliadiere hardly played and was also a youngster.

wandatowell

http://www.transferleague.co.uk/league-tables/


Go grab a bucket of perspective for yourself and stop posting utter rubbish

wandatowell

Eire-Dearg wrote: »

He got shat on because of his abnormally sized head

:D

That_Guy

Almunia??? LOL

He's actually a pretty decent keeper.

KCAccidental

Grimandi still works for Arsenal as one of their top scouts, thats what i call value!

eZe^

massdebater wrote: »

That 11 would probably still beat Liverpool :pac:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CUb4AqItGI

3-6, the beast got 4! :P

TiGeR KiNgS

Nicholas Bendtner

Marty McFly

I also wouldnt consider Oleg Luzhny a flop,he played 110 games for Arsenal, filling in at RB and Cb when required, he was also in that time part of a league winning side and two F.A cup winners sides.

Trashbat

TiGeR KiNgS wrote: »

Nicholas Bendtner

Singed for next to nothing, has scored some important goals in the Champions league and also a match winner against Spurs, and now we're looking at making £10m on selling him off. What a flop

sundula

Trashbat wrote: »

Singed for next to nothing, has scored some important goals in the Champions league and also a match winner against Spurs, and now we're looking at making £10m on selling him off. What a flop

10 million ? Even in euros thats optimistic, I dont see a great race to sign the guy, even Wenger said during the week that Bendnter might say. I'd say if he goes it will be an intial loan.

aidan24326

Griffin1988 wrote: »

Francis Jeffers must get a mention. Brutal and he cost a pretty penny...

11 million I think it was at the time. The equivalent of about 20+ mil in the current market. Ouchy.

And they'll do well to get 10 million for Bendtner, he's pretty ordinsry and has a poor first touch.

DH2K9

If you got Alex Ferguson's worst 11 then I'm sure Arsenal's worst 11 would be them

DH2K9

Trashbat wrote: »

Singed for next to nothing, has scored some important goals in the Champions league and also a match winner against Spurs, and now we're looking at making £10m on selling him off. What a flop

Agreed the guy scored against Barcelona....

Soups123

irishturkey wrote: »

I just started a thread about Arsenal woes when it comes to holding onto players and something struck me. For all the incredible gems Wenger finds, he has made some absolute stuff ups. Yes, go ahead and point out that I'm a Liverpool fan and have had to endure everything from Torben Piechnik to Bruno Cheyrou and Antonio Nunez but my defence is that neither Souness, Houllier or Benitez are known for their eye for a bargain. Obviously every manager is going to sign a dud that everyone had great expectations for but when I look at Wengers possible worst 11.... wow!! And this is just off the top of my head....

GK Manuel Almunia (Bought as a back up Goalie and performed to that)
RB Oleg Luzhny (Played over 110 games, definatley not a flop)
CB Igor Stepanovs (bought for small change, thats the gamble most clubs take regularily)
CB Pascal Cygan (bought as back up, provided back up)
LB Mikael Silvestre (I could never defend him, and he could never defend)
RM Jermaine Pennant (bought young and cheap hardly a flop)
CM Gilles Grimandi (bought as squad player and was great I loved him, chief scount now)
CM Remi Garde (another bought as squad player)
LM Luis Boa Morte (again bought for nothing and sold for good value)
CF Christopher "I'm George Weahs cousin" Wreh (was brilliant the year we won the league more than covered his fee)
CF Jeremie Aliadiere (never produced)

Luzhny did ok at Kiev, never cut it in England.
Silvestre had potential... before he left Inter
Pennant could nearly be forgiven but his attitude gets him a place here

The rest speak for themselves I think.

My comments on each player see above

that has to be the worst attempt at questioning a managers eye for a bargain. The fox in the box maybe, Reyes maybe. Most of what you listed above did what they were bought for. Buying players cheap and hoping they progress is always a gamble some of the above werent gambles Wenger knew what he was getting, Silvestre, Garde, Grimandi, Cygan. Shame on you for disrespecting Grimandi!!!!

Wengers worst possible 11 would stand up against some managers best.

peabutler

That team would spank Roy Keane's best XI

BOHtox

Let's do it about Fergie for a sec

Kuszcack
McShane
Obertan
Gibson
Kleberson
Hargreaves
Tosic
Bebe
Djemba- Djemba
Saha
Forlan
Blanc
I'm sure there's more and I'm sure there's some kind of formation available but everybody makes bad signings.

flahavaj

BOHtox wrote: »

Let's do it about Fergie for a sec

Kuszcack
McShane
Obertan
Gibson
Kleberson
Hargreaves
Tosic
Bebe
Djemba- Djemba
Saha
Forlan
Blanc
I'm sure there's more and I'm sure there's some kind of formation available but everybody makes bad signings.

There's some serious class in there to be fair and some are youth products, but your point still stands!

flahavaj

Fergie:

Taibi
Sivebaek
Prunier
Blanc
Silvestre
Miller
Djemba x2
Kleberson
Milne
Bebe
Bellion

I legit can't think of any worse defenders than Blanc and Silvestre, both weren't even that bad and its unfair to put them in but I can't think of any worse tbh.The midfield and attack picks it self though. Scary a lot of them were brought the same Summer. What happened him at all that season?

Gillington

Add Manucho to the United list

AgileMyth

irishturkey wrote: »

RM Jermaine Pennant

CF Jeremie Aliadiere

Two signings that a lot of managers would have made at the time. Both were excellent prospects.

joshrogan

nah GK jens lehmann second time around.

sundula

United can add Jordi Cruyff and probably Veron to their list.

Both managers have bad buys but from a glance SAF has spent more money buying his.

eagle eye

Nobody beats Graeme Souness in this category.

---

Stensgaard
Greer--Piechnik--Boumsong--Gresko
Hignett---Faye---Ferguson---Luque

---

Ali Dia

---

Grabbi

There is even a healthy list of others.

starviewadams

Bit unfair on Wenger,he paid very little for most of those players,you have to take chances on young players potential and Wenger gets it right more often then not,even if some don't make it at Arsenal he generally gets a decent price when he's shipping them out.

SDTimeout

'I've signed more world class players in 15yrs here than any other club. Trust my judgement.'

He's allowed a few dud signings!

jmayo

flahavaj wrote: »

BOHtox wrote: »

Let's do it about Fergie for a sec

Kuszcack
McShane
Obertan
Gibson
Kleberson
Hargreaves
Tosic
Bebe
Djemba- Djemba
Saha
Forlan
Blanc
I'm sure there's more and I'm sure there's some kind of formation available but everybody makes bad signings.

There's some serious class in there to be fair and some are youth products, but your point still stands!

Yeah some of those had really delivered for other clubs (Blanc, Forlan, Hargeaves and Veron mentioned elsewhere) but they didn't for united so thus by the OPs criteria they were failed signing for fergie.

I find it funny that this thread was started by a Liverpool fan when that club has been guilty of some awful signings over the last 20 odd years.

Remember Rafa's and Hollier's signings in basically the same time frame as Wengers:
Bellamy, Paletta, Voronin, Kromkamp, Barragan, Gonzalez, Pellegrino, Morientes, Josemi, Nunez, Pennant, Litmanen, Diomede, Diao, Kirkland, Cisse, Diouf, Kewell, Cole.

These players could be labelled as flops just as easily or even more so than the ones listed for Arsenal.

grenache

It's certainly Wenger's weakest team since he took over. Then again he knows the board wont back him with big injections of cash, given their policy of self sufficiency. I've never seen an Arsenal team dominated on home turf so much as Udinese did on Tuesday night. Still scratching my head as to how the Gunners actually won that game. I really cant see them progressing next Wednesday in Udine.

kev250

Useless thread to be honest and unfair on Wenger who has proved he has a great eye for a bargain with signing such as Henry,Viera and of course Cesc Fabregas amongst many others.

The OP a liverpool fan is having a go at Arsenal I take it, but every club makes the odd signing they should'nt have but as a manager you have to take a gamble on players like reyes. He showed he has talent and I remember him for his brace against Chelsea where he scored a wonderful long range shot.

I think Robbie Keane's £20 million transfer to liverpool would easily top the list even though liverpool got most of that transfer back.