WTF is going on with the Briarhill roundabout?

triciah_99

Massive tailbacks on the roundabout and dual carriageways due to people trying to get into work in Ballyrit...
Why is it so backed up? Why can't they open up more access roads (to these companies and factories?

If its like this now - at 7.45 and the schools are off....:eek: god help us

biko

It's a well-known bottleneck in the mornings and evenings. If you can start work earlier or later traffic will be lighter.

Stench Blossoms

If you're coming from the dual carrige way side it doesn't seem to be as bad.

what_traffic

triciah_99 wrote: »

Massive tailbacks on the roundabout and dual carriageways due to people trying to get into work in Ballyrit...
Why is it so backed up? Why can't they open up more access roads (to these companies and factories?

If its like this now - at 7.45 and the schools are off....:eek: god help us

You think its bad now - wait till they start installing the traffic lights on the current junction.
http://www.galwaynews.ie/19931-city-council-votes-remove-briarhill-roundabout
"
Work will begin in late August early September and will take three months.
"

When the lights go in that's when the fun will really start. The area will have to be avoided.

mchammer

Randy Microscopic Plaster wrote: »

When the lights go in that's when the fun will really start. The area will have to be avoided.

lights will really sort the problem out alright... like they did at the moneenageisha roundabout... try coming down college road at 5 o'clock in the afternoon when its raining - absolute joke of a junction coming from lough atalia and college road --- not too bad coming from other sides and for pedestrians...

my car was getting fixed for about a week there and was getting the bus to parkmore and sitting on college road for up to 20 mins, in the rain, on a bus really makes you want to be in your own car! so long public transport for another while at least

Morgoth

One of the companies in Parkmore West (Merit medical I think) has an en-masse start at 8am, I guess it's a shift-work manufacturing plant? They are building a new plant across the road in Parkmore East as well so I guess expect more of the same when that's finished! (see here, I presume the on-going construction is still related to that).

I cycle in past it every morning at around 7:50 and it's pretty bad. But it's all gone by 8:10. Also for those coming into either Parkmore estate, coming via the Tuam road means there's no traffic. If you're just heading out the dual-carriageway though and have to go through Briarhill roundabout, not much to be done.

Stench Blossoms

Yeh actually I was there at about 7.45 this morning and it was 10times worse than what it usual is at about 8.15.

kiwipower

It did seem extra buzy for school holidays yesterday. Came through at about 8:05 from the limerick side, was backed up past the M6/N6 roundabout before it. Worst bit is Im heading for the UHG.

kiwipower

what_traffic wrote: »

You think its bad now - wait till they start installing the traffic lights on the current junction.
http://www.galwaynews.ie/19931-city-council-votes-remove-briarhill-roundabout
"
Work will begin in late August early September and will take three months.
"

WTF I just read your link! My understanding was the whole reason roundabouts where invented was that they allowed for better traffic flow than lights!!!!

Why are these sorts of decisions being put in the hands of politicians? Where are the road/traffic management experts that should be dealing with this???

snubbleste

WTF I just read your link! My understanding was the whole reason roundabouts where invented was that they allowed for better motorist traffic flow than lights!!!!!!!!

Fixed that for you.
Also roundabouts are the least maintenance required junction from a cost point of view.

snubbleste

snubbleste wrote: »

WTF I just read your link! My understanding was the whole reason roundabouts where invented was that they allowed for better motorist traffic flow than lights!!!!!!!!

Fixed that for you.
Also roundabouts are the least maintenance required junction from a cost point of view.

Yawn!

Sick of the anti-car brigade at this stage.

kiwipower

kiwipower wrote: »

Why are these sorts of decisions being put in the hands of politicians? Where are the road/traffic management experts that should be dealing with this???

Eh the road/traffic management experts [NRA, city engineers,consultants] were the ones pushing for this as far as I could see - it was the politicians who needed to be convinced.

johnnyk66

Randy Microscopic Plaster wrote: »

Yawn!

Sick of the anti-car brigade at this stage.

Is that the best you can do :rolleyes:

stampydmonkey

New junctions means new designs carried out for the Council by consultants...which means a few consultant engineers get to keep their jobs...the council staff that would otherwise be getting paid for doing f""k all get to supervise the consultants and somehow justify their ridiculous salaries, politicians get to say they are doing something for the pedestrians and cyclists of the city and everybody is happy...bar the road traffic which so many of the cities employees rely on because the public transport is overpriced and inefficient...

...rant over!

snubbleste

You should've put that in fancier writing and sent it in when they were seeking public submissions on the revamp of the N6

stampydmonkey

Prob should have but back then I was one of those consultant engineers ...albeit an employed one !!

antoobrien

Randy Microscopic Plaster wrote: »

When the lights go in that's when the fun will really start. The area will have to be avoided.

Not to mention the knock on effect on Claregalway when all the rat-runners realise that Carnmore Cross & Glennascaul are no longer options for trying to avoid that bottleneck

kiwipower

stampydmonkey wrote: »

Prob should have but back then I was one of those consultant engineers ...albeit an employed one !!

As one of them Engineer you might be able to explain to me...The lights and lanes on the terryland round about?

1. I know Im asking is God real and all that but.....
2. I can kinda understand controlling traffic entering a roundabout with lights so that it doesnt get blocked up, (we all see everyday that the yellow hatches in Ireland dont work.) But why put the lights IN the roundabout? Surely having red and amber left arrows at the Entrance to the round about would make sense? ie if its red you cant enter the roundabout, if its amber you can only enter the roundabout if its safe. (No traffic coming from the right, no traffic impeding your entrance/exit)
3. The lane marking, what standard practice did Irish lane painters follow when painting lanes around roundabouts in this country? Because the layout of lanes make no sense. Either the entrance lanes (like coming from the Quincentenual Bridge) or those guiding you round the round-about.

johnnyk66

johnnyk66 wrote: »

Is that the best you can do :rolleyes:

I've had it up to my eyes at this stage with certain posters and their constant anti-car/motorist drivel. If I actually spoke my mind on the subject I'd be banned more than likely so I just couldn't be bothered.

galwaycyclist

Randy Microscopic Plaster wrote: »

I've had it up to my eyes at this stage with certain posters and their constant anti-car/motorist drivel. If I actually spoke my mind on the subject I'd be banned more than likely so I just couldn't be bothered.

Yes you're right, in the late 1990's Ireland achieved the distinction of having the highest child pedestrian death rate in western europe.

Those who would question such achievements and the infrastructural/roads design and management policies that enabled them are clearly luddites.

<sarcasm switch off>

paconnors

at that particular time when the op was stuck, there was a Garda Checkpoint in operation at the back of the Racecourse in Parkmore.

dell1211

snubbleste wrote: »

WTF I just read your link! My understanding was the whole reason roundabouts where invented was that they allowed for better motorist traffic flow than lights!!!!!!!!

Fixed that for you.
Also roundabouts are the least maintenance required junction from a cost point of view.

there is a tunnel under the dual carriageway leading to Tom Hogan/Burkes. I struggle to imagine a real life scenario at that roundabout where that tunnel does not adequately deal with pedestrians/cyclists

galwaycyclist

dell1211 wrote: »

there is a tunnel under the dual carriageway leading to Tom Hogan/Burkes. I struggle to imagine a real life scenario at that roundabout where that tunnel does not adequately deal with pedestrians/cyclists

How about at night? (As one scenario)

cats.life

galwaycyclist wrote: »

How about at night? (As one scenario)

wouldnt go down there at night, walked through there in day light there was bottle,s of bear,wine ,cider, CONDOMS:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:. i was shocked to see the CIDER:D:D:D:D.

Mrs OBumble

dell1211 wrote: »

there is a tunnel under the dual carriageway leading to Tom Hogan/Burkes. I struggle to imagine a real life scenario at that roundabout where that tunnel does not adequately deal with pedestrians/cyclists

You need to develop your imagination: try local teenagers hanging around, waiting to have a "conversation" with whoever walks through next. Agree it doesn't happen all the time. But sometimes it does.

We don't need to rehash the whole lights vs RAB argument here, it's been had before: summary is that RABs are best for equal flows from all directions, lights when the flows are biased to one direction. Lights allow the controllers to give priority to public transport, which is one of the ways of making it more efficient and reliable. And they provide safer options for non-car people.

And that's all I'm saying here...

Iwannahurl

I never had a difficulty with traffic congestion on that junction or on the Parkmore Road, back in the day (except as a bus user).

The main problem I encountered was high speed traffic and dangerous driving on the roundabout, as on many roundabouts in Galway City and elsewhere.

The new traffic signals will improve things for bus users especially, one hopes. I'll reserve my judgment on the situation for cyclists.

the untitled user

dell1211 wrote: »

there is a tunnel under the dual carriageway leading to Tom Hogan/Burkes. I struggle to imagine a real life scenario at that roundabout where that tunnel does not adequately deal with pedestrians/cyclists

think about it, around 50% of all pedistrians/cyclists have to cross the roundabout to get to that tunnel.

Iwannahurl wrote: »

The new traffic signals will improve things for bus users especially, one hopes. I'll reserve my judgment on the situation for cyclists.

As someone who cycles 20k on our city streets every day I can confidently say traffic lights are safer and easier for cyclists.

Iwannahurl

the untitled user wrote: »

As someone who cycles 20k on our city streets every day I can confidently say traffic lights are safer and easier for cyclists.

I would certainly agree that Irish roundabouts, such as those endured by Galway City cyclists, are not cycle-friendly.

However, given the long-established ignorance and/or apathy about cycling among Irish roads engineers I have difficulty trusting them to do the job right. The safety of vulnerable road users on (newly) signalised junctions will also depend on responsible road behaviour and compliance with road traffic law. That's not something you see every day in this country...

lucianot

I live in the Roscam area and have to be at work in Ballybrit at 8. If I leave 5 minutes later than usual it takes me about 20 mins instead of 5 to reach the office. The funny part is that when you reach the roundabout at the entrance of Parkmore Business Park there is no blockage, accident or zombi attack,just people driving very slowly. The problem is there is only one line to accomodate por cars turning left and right at the roundabout.
Also usually there is a bus parked blocking the other side of the road because nobody in 10 years had the initiative to open a bay for the buses at the stop nor to mention building up a shelter for all the workers that use the service.
Rant!:D

dell1211

the untitled user wrote: »

think about it, around 50% of all pedistrians/cyclists have to cross the roundabout to get to that tunnel.

You have completely missed my point, you have to think about that specific roundabout and the roads leading up to it,
-Road coming from the airport/parkmore can cross at the lights before the roundabout,
-Road coming from Oranmore; Very very few cyclists/pedestrians use this road and anyways any that to do can simply use the traffic lights either at the parkmore road or outside the briarhill shopping centre,
-Road coming from Tom Hogans; Use the tunnel,
-Road coming from Dougiska can cross using the pedestrian lights that already exist across from the shopping centre.

JustMary wrote: »

You need to develop your imagination: try local teenagers hanging around, waiting to have a "conversation" with whoever walks through next. Agree it doesn't happen all the time. But sometimes it does.

Hold on a second, what ever bit of antisocial behavior occurs in that tunnel does so late a night, that tunnel is perfectly safe to use during the day(especially during the busy traffic times, and ive used it many many times). The whole reason the car haters want traffic lights at this roundabout is to help public transport move freely during busy times(which I cant see happening but thats not my point here, my point is that the traffic lights will ad very little benefit over what the tunnel already ads), which is only during the day so your argument about the tunnel being dangerous and not safe does not stand up for me as its only dangerous(if at all) during the night when
1.there is very little traffic about which will mean that lights will slow up the buses anyway and
2. there is very little pedestrian/cyclist movement at that junction at night anyway.

lucianot

And I had to call a couple of times when I used to cycle in order to have the tunnel cleaned up of all the glass and burned wood the local vandals leave every night. That tunnel should be locked after 8pm every day. It is dangerous most of the times for that only reason.

Iwannahurl

lucianot wrote: »

I live in the Roscam area and have to be at work in Ballybrit at 8. If I leave 5 minutes later than usual it takes me about 20 mins instead of 5 to reach the office. The funny part is that when you reach the roundabout at the entrance of Parkmore Business Park there is no blockage, accident or zombi attack,just people driving very slowly. The problem is there is only one line to accomodate por cars turning left and right at the roundabout.
Also usually there is a bus parked blocking the other side of the road because nobody in 10 years had the initiative to open a bay for the buses at the stop nor to mention building up a shelter for all the workers that use the service.
Rant!:D

Roscam to Ballybrit? That's a distance of about 4 km, right?

The OP referred to "massive tailbacks on the roundabout and dual carriageways due to people trying to get into work in Ballybrit."

I wonder what proportion of this traffic comprises motorists travelling a distance of, say, 4-5 km or less?

Have there been any surveys done on distances travelled and means of transport among the working population of Ballybrit and Parkmore?

I agree with you about the buses on the Parkmore Road. Simply ridiculous that they park on the footpath and that there is no bus bay or shelter. It's not as if there is no space available.

lucianot

Let's assume most of the traffic is composed buy those who live at more than 5Km away, ok?
This post is not ot defend my decision of not using public transportation even though I have very good reasons. Hint: I said I used to cycle to work

Iwannahurl

dell1211 wrote: »

Hold on a second, what ever bit of antisocial behavior occurs in that tunnel does so late a night, that tunnel is perfectly safe to use during the day(especially during the busy traffic times, and ive used it many many times). The whole reason the car haters want traffic lights at this roundabout is to help public transport move freely during busy times(which I cant see happening but thats not my point here, my point is that the traffic lights will ad very little benefit over what the tunnel already ads), which is only during the day so your argument about the tunnel being dangerous and not safe does not stand up for me as its only dangerous(if at all) during the night when
1.there is very little traffic about which will mean that lights will slow up the buses anyway and
2. there is very little pedestrian/cyclist movement at that junction at night anyway.

That tunnel is disliked by cyclists and pedestrians because of broken glass, security concerns and so on, and it is unfair and unrealistic to expect them to use it. I always avoided it, and the other so-called cycle "facilities" whenever I was in the area.

The level of service for pedestrians and cyclists on this roundabout (and for bus users, because of the inevitable congestion) is unsatisfactory, and a tunnel of this sort -- especially in the Irish context of anti-social behaviour, lack of enforcement and absence of maintenance -- does not meet their needs.

Iwannahurl

lucianot wrote: »

Let's assume most of the traffic is composed buy those who live at more than 5Km away, ok?
This post is not ot defend my decision of not using public transportation even though I have very good reasons. Hint: I said I used to cycle to work

I never assume such things. I'd need to see reliable survey data showing commuting distances and travel modes.

4 km is about a 15 minute cycle, I think. I would suggest that a distance of up to 8 km or even more is manageable by bike.

As for taking the bus, I have been told that the #9 route is one of the most successful in the country, never mind just in Galway City.

Galway City and County Councils need to get their finger out and introduce a decent Park & Ride service.

Even if switching to sustainable transport modes took, say, one in five cars off the road in this area, that would be a substantial reduction in traffic congestion IMO.

kiwipower

Iwannahurl wrote: »

I never assume such things. I'd need to see reliable survey data showing commuting distances and travel modes.

4 km is about a 15 minute cycle, I think. I would suggest that a distance of up to 8 km or even more is manageable by bike.

As for taking the bus, I have been told that the #9 route is one of the most successful in the country, never mind just in Galway City.

Galway City and County Councils need to get their finger out and introduce a decent Park & Ride service.

Even if switching to sustainable transport modes took, say, one in five cars off the road in this area, that would be a substantial reduction in traffic congestion IMO.

Have you considered people who may not be able to cycle/walk or use public transport? (ie people with disabilities?)

Iwannahurl

kiwipower wrote: »

Have you considered people who may not be able to cycle/walk or use public transport? (ie people with disabilities?)

Of course. I strongly support the principle of universal access as well as sustainable transport.

In addition to the data on commuting distances, I'd be interested in seeing the figures for the numbers of people with disabilities (and their carers/relatives) working and living in the area.

BTW, with regard to disabled access to footpaths etc, see photos above.

lucianot

Great, the root of all the traffic problems is that people who live 4-5 km from work doesn't take the bus. Make them take the and then 99% of the issue goes away. I sense there is more to it than that.

Iwannahurl

lucianot wrote: »

Great, the root of all the traffic problems is that people who live 4-5 km from work doesn't take the bus. Make them take the and then 99% of the issue goes away. I sense there is more to it than that.

Using your imaginary figure, if 99% of cars were taken off the road then I imagine there would be a corresponding improvement in traffic congestion.

IRL, much traffic congestion is caused by unnecessary car trips of one sort or another, especially when most of those cars are single-occupant only.

lucianot

Nice logic! What you are proposing is not improving the traffic but just simply getting rid of it.
Seriously do you expect some day everybody who lives in a 4-5km radius from work and is fit enough will be forced to walk, cycle or take the bus? Seriously?

dell1211

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Using your imaginary figure, if 99% of cars were taken off the road then I imagine there would be a corresponding improvement in traffic congestion.

IRL, much traffic congestion is caused by unnecessary car trips of one sort or another, especially when most of those cars are single-occupant only.

Its shambolic, those ignorant people who drive to work should all be burned, we should ignore the fact most of them have no alternative choice and ignore the 10,000 reasons for people in galway driving to work with the main ones being the west of irelands unpredictable weather, councils chaotic development plan of the last 30years(yes these are the same people that ye have so much faith in and will magically "fix" this traffic spot) or trying to get home to their children

Tell me this, if all these cars were taken of the road, what would you do with all your spare time seeing as most of it is currently spent ranting about cars to strangers on the internet and walking around the place taking photos of cars that are parked in a way that you dont like:rolleyes:

http://www.cso.ie/census/..%5Ccensus%5Cdocuments%5CIntroduction.pdf
Have a look at the maps on page 6 of the above pdf. It shows that a commuter belt around Galway that takes in most of the county.

People driving in and out of the city with no hope of any alternative is part of the problem.

I saw another chart once showing the transport choices for commuters in the city and most (as far as I can remember) people on the west side drove to work.

Iwannahurl

lucianot wrote: »

Nice logic! What you are proposing is not improving the traffic but just simply getting rid of it.
Seriously do you expect some day everybody who lives in a 4-5km radius from work and is fit enough will be forced to walk, cycle or take the bus? Seriously?

I haven't used the word "forced" anywhere in my posts, IIRC.

Are you suggesting that I am being illogical somewhere?

Reducing traffic reduces congestion. I would have thought that was self-evident.

lucianot

Iwannahurl wrote: »

I haven't used the word "forced" anywhere in my posts, IIRC.

Are you suggesting that I am being illogical somewhere?

Reducing traffic reduces congestion. I would have thought that was self-evident.

I didn't say illogical but most like funny logic. Of course that congestion reduces if you get rid of traffic! We agree on that and would be nice to see less cars on the streets but is not plausible mainly due to other factors besides people not walking, cycling or taking the bus.
I would like to see more people sharing their cars and I think you can really encourage that behavior but not so easily the rest which conflicts with personal freedom and choises, etc.
So let's concentrate on plausible solutions then and do not forget that economy does also relies partially on car sales...you can't go asking people to buy cars (and expecting them to do so) and then tax them without limits or asking them to leave them at home.
Wait, you can!

Iwannahurl

dell1211 wrote: »

Its shambolic, those ignorant people who drive to work should all be burned, we should ignore the fact most of them have no alternative choice and ignore the 10,000 reasons for people in galway driving to work with the main ones being the west of irelands unpredictable weather, councils chaotic development plan of the last 30years(yes these are the same people that ye have so much faith in and will magically "fix" this traffic spot) or trying to get home to their children

Tell me this, if all these cars were taken of the road, what would you do with all your spare time seeing as most of it is currently spent ranting about cars to strangers on the internet and walking around the place taking photos of cars that are parked in a way that you dont like:rolleyes:

Every motorist switching to bus, bike or Shank's pony is one less car on the road. That is a simple fact.

Reducing traffic will reduce congestion. That is another fact.

I am a motorist and a parent. I also transport my children by bike, on foot and by bus. In my experience people who travel by these sustainable means -- with or without children -- have been sorely neglected (even abused) for years.

Finally there are some small encouraging signs that the trend is beginning to go the other way, ie gradually towards a higher level of service for sustainable transport and active commuting.

Apart from infrastructural changes, eg the conversion of the hideous roundabouts to signalised junctions, I believe there is also a need for other measures to promote active travel and disincentivise unnecessary car use. Such measures could include Park & Ride, congestion charging and the like.

IMO a congestion charge in particular would very quickly reveal that many of the "reasons" for car dependence are actually just excuses. I've been there myself, and I know how it goes.

BTW, I agree that Galway City Council are not to be trusted. However, I'm still glad to see them finally addressing issues -- such as dangerous and superfluous roundabouts -- that they should have dealt with years ago.

lucianot

I wouldn't transport my son on a bike in Galway except in the limits of a park. It's just too dangerous, sorry.
I am up for the congestion charge but just for the city center but there is a problem, the lack of alternate roads and infrastructure will render this impossible to execute.

Iwannahurl

lucianot wrote: »

I didn't say illogical but most like funny logic. Of course that congestion reduces if you get rid of traffic! We agree on that and would be nice to see less cars on the streets but is not plausible mainly due to other factors besides people not walking, cycling or taking the bus.
I would like to see more people sharing their cars and I think you can really encourage that behavior but not so easily the rest which conflicts with personal freedom and choises, etc.
So let's concentrate on plausible solutions then and do not forget that economy does also relies partially on car sales...you can't go asking people to buy cars (and expecting them to do so) and then tax them without limits or asking them to leave them at home.
Wait, you can!

There is no doubt that bad "planning" in Galway City and County has led to car dependence. Neverthless, it remains the case that a substantial proportion of the city population lives within a reasonable distance of work or education that is suited to other modes of transport.

I see unnecessary car use all the time, eg my neighbours who drive their children 800 metres to school. There is also an awful lot of inappropriate car use, eg the people who insist on driving right to the door of their destination and who then park on the footpath.

Personal choice is all very well, but an accumulation of such personal choices has a major collective effect. Local, national and international policy is inexorably moving towards increasing emphasis on sustainability (eg commitments on CO2 emissions). There are no low-cost or free ways to continue facilitating car use.

Incidentally, I read a piece in the Irish Times recently (can't find the link) which indicated, IIRC, that if you're commuting a total of just 16 km daily and switch from the car to the bike, you could save €300 annually just on fuel costs.

And yes indeed you can tax people. It happens all the time in every civilised country, and it's happening more and more here. Tax is an ideal instrument of public policy, though that is not to say that it is never painful or misdirected.

Iwannahurl

lucianot wrote: »

I wouldn't transport my son on a bike in Galway except in the limits of a park. It's just too dangerous, sorry.
I am up for the congestion charge but just for the city center but there is a problem, the lack of alternate roads and infrastructure will render this impossible to execute.

Which is why there is a pressing need for traffic reduction and speed reduction, as per current national policy.

I would have thought that a lack of alternate roads would be useful in implementing a congestion charge, eg no opportunity for dodging the charge via rat runs.

In any case, such a measure is a long way off, IMO, politically and fiscally.

lucianot

Just to day dream, here are two videos by the City Council showing the before and after the new layout. It works! :P

http://www.galwaycity.ie/GTU/Model.html

kiwipower

lucianot wrote: »

Just to day dream, here are two videos by the City Council showing the before and after the new layout. It works! :P

http://www.galwaycity.ie/GTU/Model.html

Funny but I think they have underestimated the present amount of traffic coming from the Roundabout by the Galway Clinic approaching the roundabout with the M6. They have even further underestimated the amount of traffic that would flow from the M6 and the old N6 onto this roundabout if the traffic was more free flowing.

For example I travel from Limerick/Clare to work in the UGH there are about 6 of my collegues that make the same or similar journey (plus another 4or so from Oranmore.) 50% of us would take the Briar Hill ring road route while the other 50% take the Dublin road route. If one become quicker than the other a few would swap routes causing more of a back up again.

I also see alot of cars that come off the M6 going back to the Galway Clinic roundabout to access the Dublin Road if the Briar Hill direction looks busy.