Jets

cena

Any jets fans out there. What do you think of there chances of getting too the superbowl this season.

JohnnyRyan99

Dunno really think he's taken a big chance on Plax and Mason... Not sure if I can see them being better options than Braylon and the Crotch!

Shonn Greene is going to have to have a big year if we're to stand a chance because I think it can finally be said that LT's glorious days are behind him.

Reckon we'll be just as solid on D as we were last year... Lot rests on Sanchez, if he hits a slump like he did last year whatever bout Superbowls... Playoffs could be a bit of a question. Massive year for him!

It's not that I think The Jets have done poorly in the off season... Just kinda feels like everyone else has been doing better!!

matthew8

The jets should make the playoffs fairly easily along with the Ravens. I don't really see a wildcard coming out of the AFC West or South. The Chiefs should go backwards this year with no NFC West or AFC South to play against so I think a bad record will once again win that division.

I'm looking forward to the Jets-Ravens game, both offenses struggled last time, it will be on Channel 4 so I should be able to watch the whole thing. I don't see the Jets reaching the superbowl, I give them a good chance but I don't think they will make it. I just don't think that Sanchez can go 3 playoff games against good defenses and win them all.

cena

The jets game is on espn tonight. Looking forward too it

Hazys

I think the Jets' overall talent wise are slightly worse than last year. The only improvement i see is Mason over Edwards which depending on Mason's shape at this stage of his career, it may not be. I think their DL is not as good as last year's which was one of their main strengths, losing Ellis and too many ?s there also.

A lot rests on Sanchez's shoulders, he could remain an average QB or in his 3rd season as a starter progress to above average...but tbh i dont see that much potential in Sanchez that i see in Bradford, Stafford or even Freeman. I dont think Sanchez will ever become an elite QB. The Jets have a good defense and good running game so maybe they dont need an elite QB but it would certainly help.

Rex seems a lot quieter this season than last so maybe some of the fuel that feeds the fire is a little dimished.

I dont see the Jets' winning the AFC East so i think they are in a dog fight for a wildcard spot.

TaosHum

I think its put up or shut up time for the Jets. If they want to be considered elite (and there not far off it), then its time to win an AFC Title game.

My prediction for the Jets is to either fail miserably (fail to make playoffs) or reach the Superbowl.

Pegasusbridge

If the Jets can improve in the red zone then they have a genuine shot. First preseason game has just started and the Jets defence forced a three and out and got good field position. Sanchez started well and the Jets marched into the red zone but only ended up with a field goal. I think that is where they need to improve. Sanchez has shown he has potential so hopefully he can continue to improve.

mikemac

Watching it too

That was a lovely sack by the Texans defensive back

Has John Gruden ever seen a QB that he doesn't like?

Pegasusbridge

Yes it was. Sanchez doing well again on the second drive. I hope Turner is alright. Don't know how many injuries the Jets can afford to get.

tallaghtoutlaws

mikemac wrote: »

Has John Gruden ever seen a QB that he doesn't like?

Love Gruden but no is the answer to your question. Its funny someone pointed out to me last year that Gruden is always positive. Watch him enough and you will always notice that. Even when he criticises someone he is being positive about it.

Pred192

I think they will do good this year. I hope for a SB.

As the whole J-Co and Edwards thing I think they were right releasing them. I loved J-Co and he was one of my favourite players. He is very underrated for a WR. But he has a serious back injury which is never good. Edwards is always in trouble off the field and is now going to miss a few games because of it, so what is the point in keeping him if he is always in trouble?

As for Ellis, I love that guy too but again he did not pass the physical and is now on the PUP list in NE. So again there really isn't any point in keeping him either.

As for Plax and Mason it is a gamble. Plax has been out for 2 years so you never know with him. He is very tall though and is just what they needed. He will probably play with a lot of heart because he wants to prove he can be great again. He was even sneaking into practice when he wasn't meant to. Mason is old but great.

This is Sanchez's third year so its really his final year to show he can do it or if he is a bust. Last year in the Playoffs you have to remember he was injured so a lot of miss throws were because of his injured arm. I think he is great at avoiding sacks and moving around the pocket. His accuracy just has to get better.

As for defense thy really need a Pass rusher. Right now thats the only thing holding them back. They have 2 top CB's and a good rookie who was trained the whole summer by Revis.

Also watch out for the rookies a lot of them are meant to be extremely good and might be played more often. And again they still do have $7mill in cap room to spend so you never know what they are going to do.

Berty44

Looking for a good year. Still fear the Partiots. We do need Shonne Greene to come on.

adrian522

I think if the Jets want to go to the SB they really need to win the division as to go on the road in the playoffs is tough.

If they are playing at home though their chances increase greatly.

I have to say I like the chargers this year.

Pred192

The Jets are going to pass more this year, Rex has said it. Sanchez has the highest if not one of the highest wins in the playoffs (i can't remember) And he has the highest wins on the road. I think it would be a lot better if they win the division but I wouldn't be heart broken if they didn't

The Chargers always look good on paper they have an amazing QB and a great team but they never get to the SB they get knocked out in the playoffs. Look at them 2 years ago when they made it into the playoffs. On paper they had a better team than the Jets and they still loss.

Leslie91

You'll probably make the playoffs but you are not getting by my Bolts for once. Revenge will be sweet.

mikemac

Have the Chargers made any changes with their special teams? New coach maybe?

Syferus

Pred192 wrote: »

The Jets are going to pass more this year, Rex has said it. Sanchez has the highest if not one of the highest wins in the playoffs (i can't remember) And he has the highest wins on the road. I think it would be a lot better if they win the division but I wouldn't be heart broken if they didn't

The Chargers always look good on paper they have an amazing QB and a great team but they never get to the SB they get knocked out in the playoffs. Look at them 2 years ago when they made it into the playoffs. On paper they had a better team than the Jets and they still loss.

Joint highest for the most road wins in the play-offs of all-time by any QB, there's a few others, the most illustrative being Joe Flacco. Both are young QBs who've benefited hugely from having top tier defenses (well, not the Ravens for most of last season) to mop up any failures on the offense. Sanchez showed alot of improvement last season but he'll need to continue that progress this year to justify the Jets reaching so high to nab him in the draft. If he can ever do it it's with a Jets team that's been solid and strong for the last two seasons.

OAOB

mikemac wrote: »

Have the Chargers made any changes with their special teams? New coach maybe?

They brought in Steve Bisaccia, he was the Bucs special teams coach last year. They returned a punt for a TD in the first preseason game so its hopefully going to do better this year.

Back on topic, if i was a JETS fan i still wouldn't be fully convinced by Mark Sanchez, i think they have to have a strong running game for him to be effective

matthew8

Syferus wrote: »

Joint highest for the most road wins in the play-offs of all-time by any QB, there's a few others, the most illustrative being Joe Flacco. Both are young QBs who've benefited hugely from having top tier defenses (well, not the Ravens for most of last season) to mop up any failures on the offense. Sanchez showed alot of improvement last season but he'll need to continue that progress this year to justify the Jets reaching so high to nab him in the draft. If he can ever do it it's with a Jets team that's been solid and strong for the last two seasons.

The Ravens conceded the 3rd least points last season.

Syferus

matthew8 wrote: »

The Ravens conceded the 3rd least points last season.

The defense also cost the Ravens on a good few occasions. Ed Reed missed a big portion of the season and coupled with Ray Lewis and co just not being as dominant as they once were the defense just wasn't as feared as it used to be. Indeed if anything the offense carried the defense in many games, which is pretty rare in Baltimore.

matthew8

Syferus wrote: »

The defense also cost the Ravens on a good few occasions. Ed Reed missed a big portion of the season and coupled with Ray Lewis and co just not being as dominant as they once were the defense just wasn't as feared as it used to be. Indeed if anything the offense carried the defense in many games, which is pretty rare in Baltimore.

It's still very feared, hence the players saying we have the 2 best defenders in the league. One thing you must remember is any time we lose because the defense gave up a late touchdown it was probably because the offense did nothing for the entire second half.

LuckyLloyd

The Jets have disimproved relative to last year. I'm not seeing the changes at WR as anything other than a downgrade, while depth has been lost on both lines and in the secondary. Additionally, in each of the past two offseasons a dynamic offensive playmaker has been lost. However, there are good and bad reasons to dismprove, and in the Jet's case I don't really have a problem with where the Franchise is going. Ultimately, over the past two years the Franchise has managed to lock up a premier Center, Shutdown Corner, Left Tackle, Wide Receiver and Tight End to long term deals that are unlikely to see hold outs in any case. Additionally, a QB and RB that are hoped to be good long term NFL players are also in place. In that context, sacrifices had to be made, and the downgrades haven't been too severe.

While this team has been to the AFC Championship two years in a row, people should take pause from two big realities:

- They have scraped into the playoffs both times;
- Sanchez has spent two years as one of the worst starting QBs in the league in terms of his advanced metrics;

Sanchez improved some last year, but not at the drastic rate that the traditional media would like you to believe. For the Jets to be a superbowl contender given the less talented overall roster, it would be imperative for him to really step forward in terms of the fine details this season. I wouldn't hold my breath on that one to be honest (though I certainly hope I'm wrong).

I see us as having the tools in place to be relevant for the next 3 seasons or so, but barring a radical improvement from Sanchez, it is difficult to see where a jump way beyond the 7 to 10 win range is going to come from. As such, I predict another edgy season where wins are required to make the playoffs come the turn of December. We are very tough to play and beat, but will struggle to put games away.

Should be an emotional ride either way.

raven136

Plax looked a great pick up with that performance last night it has to be said.

Sanchez had a very good game and thats 3 really experienced wideouts now for him to target.Staying injury free is the big worry.

Im guessing we are going to see a more through the air Jets attack.

tallaghtoutlaws

raven136 wrote: »

Im guessing we are going to see a more through the air Jets attack.

Hopefully. I really do hope the Jets put their hopes into Sanchez.

FreeOSCAR

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

The Jets have disimproved relative to last year. I'm not seeing the changes at WR as anything other than a downgrade, while depth has been lost on both lines and in the secondary. Additionally, in each of the past two offseasons a dynamic offensive playmaker has been lost. However, there are good and bad reasons to dismprove, and in the Jet's case I don't really have a problem with where the Franchise is going. Ultimately, over the past two years the Franchise has managed to lock up a premier Center, Shutdown Corner, Left Tackle, Wide Receiver and Tight End to long term deals that are unlikely to see hold outs in any case. Additionally, a QB and RB that are hoped to be good long term NFL players are also in place. In that context, sacrifices had to be made, and the downgrades haven't been too severe.

While this team has been to the AFC Championship two years in a row, people should take pause from two big realities:

- They have scraped into the playoffs both times;
- Sanchez has spent two years as one of the worst starting QBs in the league in terms of his advanced metrics;

Sanchez improved some last year, but not at the drastic rate that the traditional media would like you to believe. For the Jets to be a superbowl contender given the less talented overall roster, it would be imperative for him to really step forward in terms of the fine details this season. I wouldn't hold my breath on that one to be honest (though I certainly hope I'm wrong).

I see us as having the tools in place to be relevant for the next 3 seasons or so, but barring a radical improvement from Sanchez, it is difficult to see where a jump way beyond the 7 to 10 win range is going to come from. As such, I predict another edgy season where wins are required to make the playoffs come the turn of December. We are very tough to play and beat, but will struggle to put games away.

Should be an emotional ride either way.

I pretty much agree with that.
Whilst Sanchez was clutch last year in closing games against the Browns, Lions, Broncos and Texans it was his poor accuracy and red zone completions which had us in a spot of bother against them teams.
If he brings his completion % up into the 60s and improves his red zone stats I would be delighted.

Plax and Mason to me are an upgrade on Cotch and Edwards (provided they stay healthy). Brad Smith is the biggest loss of the off season IMO.
Our running game will be stronger this year. Joe Mcknight has looked impressive so far and if LT gives us one more strong year it will help Sanchez even more.

I think the biggest problem lies with rushing the passer. Mo Wilks has looked decent so far but we still give QB's too much time to find the pass.

Looking at the schedule hear (and barring no crazy injuries) I reckon we go 10-6 and scrape into the post season again. Probably even a bit optomistic.
Still I love watching them play, the ups and downs of being a JETS fan are brilliant.

Division wise: We can take some solace in that the Dolphins havn't got a decent QB, the Bills are still ****e and Rex has had Belichicks number more times than he has had Rex's. The Pats are still the Superbowl favs (and rightly so).

raven136

FreeOSCAR wrote: »

I pretty much agree with that.
Whilst Sanchez was clutch last year in closing games against the Browns, Lions, Broncos and Texans it was his poor accuracy and red zone completions which had us in a spot of bother against them teams.
If he brings his completion % up into the 60s and improves his red zone stats I would be delighted.

Plax and Mason to me are an upgrade on Cotch and Edwards (provided they stay healthy). Brad Smith is the biggest loss of the off season IMO.
Our running game will be stronger this year. Joe Mcknight has looked impressive so far and if LT gives us one more strong year it will help Sanchez even more.

I think the biggest problem lies with rushing the passer. Mo Wilks has looked decent so far but we still give QB's too much time to find the pass.

Looking at the schedule hear (and barring no crazy injuries) I reckon we go 10-6 and scrape into the post season again. Probably even a bit optomistic.
Still I love watching them play, the ups and downs of being a JETS fan are brilliant.

Division wise: We can take some solace in that the Dolphins havn't got a decent QB, the Bills are still ****e and Rex has had Belichicks number more times than he has had Rex's. The Pats are still the Superbowl favs (and rightly so).

We also need Shoon Greene to be far better this year.
The pass rush is a worry but i really think that Holmes,Plax and Mason offer really good recievers for Sanchez.And with Plax in the red zone as a big target that will help his confidence surely.

bubba gump

Can't believe the pessimism from the Jets fans here, especially regarding Sanchez.

Obviously the Jets (as well as every other team) will succeed or fail based on QB play. Sanchez is coming off another strong postseason performance. His QB postseason rating is higher (over 90) than P Manning and he also owns a 3:1 td/int ratio. A sample size of 6 games, all on the road, has to be respected. Couple this with his fourth quarter and OT winning drives last season there is a lot to be excited about. Of course he has had some terrible games but this has to be expected from a young QB who only played 16 college games. Improvement is expected again this year but a lack of a pro bowl season does not make Sanchez a bust, he is far from that!

As regards the rest of the team, 10 starters are returning on defense. Shaun Ellis is the only casualty. Whilst he had a monster game v the Pats in the playoffs his regular season play was at best average. He is being replaced by 2 draft picks, a returning Ropati and improving Marcus Dixon. This D-Line rotation should be very capable in Rex's defense where D-linemen do the dirty work in the trenches. Calvin Pace is also 100% healthy...thus far! An extra year in Rex's system will benefit everyone.

9 starters are returning on offense. WR could be an issue of course but don't forget that Braylon was/is a big gamble and Jericho wanted out and is coming off back surgery as mentioned before. Offensive line depth could be an issue with Turner going down but the starting front five is very solid. There are some questions about Shonn Green but I believe/hope he will produce.

Special teams are always strong with Mike Westhoff in charge. Brad Smith is a loss but so was Leon Washington! Mike would get good returns from Rex Ryan!!

All in all, the Jets are no worse than 09 or 10 when they reached AFCCG and have serious potential to be better i.e. Sanchez improvement, Revis healthy etc. Every season can be derailed by injuries but come on lads have a bit of belief! Just like the Pats, Steelers, Colts, Green Bay etc we should expect the playoffs for the next number of years and be devastated/astonished if we don't, like all good fans!!

Apologies for long post:)

tallaghtoutlaws

The QB rating in the playoffs in my opinion means nothing and I say that even with regards to Manning and Brady and Rodgers. Its grinding out and driving on your team and making the right calls when the game is on the line or when needed as a QB.

Last year both the Colts and the Pats fooking sucked at pass rushing. Ryan Leaf would have looked good in the Jets pocket behind that big O-line and solid backs who can block the rush. Oh and not forgetting their defense making sure the score was within reach or they were ahead to keep the pressure off Sanchez.

Look what happened Sanchez when the Steelers rattled his cage. He caved even with his high rating he failed to produce the goods.

What Rex Ryan has done in NY is nothing short than amazing to make an average QB look good. And I said it before and I will say it again the Jets philosophy with Sanchez is short to mid passes to the WR and let them punch the rest home.

If the Jets make the Superbowl this year it wont be down to the amazing skills of their QB.It will be down to a solid unit getting the job done every where.

raven136

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

The QB rating in the playoffs in my opinion means nothing and I say that even with regards to Manning and Brady and Rodgers. Its grinding out and driving on your team and making the right calls when the game is on the line or when needed as a QB.

Last year both the Colts and the Pats fooking sucked at pass rushing. Ryan Leaf would have looked good in the Jets pocket behind that big O-line and solid backs who can block the rush. Oh and not forgetting their defense making sure the score was within reach or they were ahead to keep the pressure off Sanchez.

Look what happened Sanchez when the Steelers rattled his cage. He caved even with his high rating he failed to produce the goods.

What Rex Ryan has done in NY is nothing short than amazing to make an average QB look good. And I said it before and I will say it again the Jets philosophy with Sanchez is short to mid passes to the WR and let them punch the rest home.

If the Jets make the Superbowl this year it wont be down to the amazing skills of their QB.It will be down to a solid unit getting the job done every where.

Can we not presume that in his 3rd season with a better Redzone target that Sanchez will get better or do you believe he will nerver be "Elite"

tallaghtoutlaws

raven136 wrote: »

Can we not presume that in his 3rd season with a better Redzone target that Sanchez will get better or do you believe he will nerver be "Elite"

You can give him all the targets you want but it will never make him elite. If you are blaming his weapons as the reason why his is not elite then you have answered your the question.

He will never be a top 10 QB in my mind. I wouldn't be surprised if Rex Ryan goes on a conquest to find a long term replacement for Sanchez. What the Jets had over the last 2 years and it pains me to say it is a solid football team and had they a better QB in there they would have won the super bowl. I don't see Sanchez improving much more on what he is now.

FreeOSCAR

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

Look what happened Sanchez when the Steelers rattled his cage. He caved even with his high rating he failed to produce the goods.

That game for Sanchez I don't think he was rattled that much, second half he was excellent in particular. Schotty's play calls in the red zonae and the awful 1st half run defence was their downfall.

Saying that he is certainly not elite but this year will tell all for him I think.

raven136

I personally dont think he will be a Manning or Brady but i think he could be much better than some here suspect.
He dropped his int's from his first season and this is only his 3rd season with one college season i think.

Someone pointed out to me that his completion stats his first 2 seasons are almost identical to Troy Aikman and he made the jump his 3rd year.

tallaghtoutlaws

FreeOSCAR wrote: »

That game for Sanchez I don't think he was rattled that much, second half he was excellent in particular. Schotty's play calls in the red zonae and the awful 1st half run defence was their downfall.

Saying that he is certainly not elite but this year will tell all for him I think.

The Jets were only in the Steelers redzone twice in the whole game. And they had one TD and a turnover on the Steelers goalline. (not counting the 45 yard TD as it wasn't a drive in the redzone)

Even then looking at the failed attempt they should never have had to gone for it on 4th and 1. The Steelers dug in and shut out the Jets running game thus forcing them to throw it and Sanchez failed to make it happen. Everyone said that night they should have kicked for 3 and taken the momentum on so ok the 4th and 1 decision was stupid in hindsight but that was a Rex Ryan move. And Ok you can blame the play calling but when it comes down to you have to pass to score that is when you expect your QB and WR to make it happen.

As for rattling his cage. Sanchez coughed up the ball twice and one was a TD for the steelers. He was lucky with a couple of those long passes also that he wasn't picked. For most of the game he struggled. He did pull it back in the 2nd half but momentum had already shifted and the brave fight back by the Jets was stomped out by a resilient Steelers defense.

bubba gump

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

The Jets were only in the Steelers redzone twice in the whole game. And they had one TD and a turnover on the Steelers goalline. (not counting the 45 yard TD as it wasn't a drive in the redzone)

Even then looking at the failed attempt they should never have had to gone for it on 4th and 1. The Steelers dug in and shut out the Jets running game thus forcing them to throw it and Sanchez failed to make it happen. Everyone said that night they should have kicked for 3 and taken the momentum on so ok the 4th and 1 decision was stupid in hindsight but that was a Rex Ryan move. And Ok you can blame the play calling but when it comes down to you have to pass to score that is when you expect your QB and WR to make it happen.

As for rattling his cage. Sanchez coughed up the ball twice and one was a TD for the steelers. He was lucky with a couple of those long passes also that he wasn't picked. For most of the game he struggled. He did pull it back in the 2nd half but momentum had already shifted and the brave fight back by the Jets was stomped out by a resilient Steelers defense.

From reading your responses I would guess that your either a Pats or Miami fan as your anti-Sanchez bias is obvious.

Rex look for a new [URL="javascript:void(0);"]QB[/URL]?? Do you know how hard it is to find a franchise [URL="javascript:void(0);"]qb[/URL]? Every GM in the league would be delighted with what Sanchez has achieved in his first 2 years i.e. 6/7 fourth quarter/[URL="javascript:void(0);"]OT[/URL] comebacks, 4 road playoff wins where he played very solid, and marked improvement from year 1 to year 2. He is by no means the finished article or a top 10 qb yet but the potential is obvious for everyone to see, well those who want to look objectively!

Belicheck is supposed to be a defensive mastermind just like Rex, (Pats super bowls built more on defense than offense i believe) so anytime his defense is dismantled for 3 tds by a young qb on the road in the playoffs has to be acknowledged. Sanchez does not have unlimited time in the pocket due to the O-line and is known for adjusting well when the pocket collapses and for throwing on the run e.g. Cleveland game last year and Holmes TD v Steelers in AFCGM.

Sanchez played very well in both AFCCG's. In the Steelers game he was hit while throwing the ball, it happens, and highlighted that the O-line didn't always give him lots of time especially against great defenses like the steelers. There was a case for the "tuck rule" on that play too, do you remember the time that was most famously used?? The play calling and poor execution by the whole offense caused that stop on the goal line.

Finally, the biggest reason why I am excited about Sanchez this year and into the future is that had we stopped big ben on 3rd down to end the game I truly believed Sanchez had a great chance to march us down the field and have a legitimate shot in the endzone against the number 1 defense in the league. I would be interested what any steeler fans on this board have to say about this because i reckon they were mightily relieved that Sanchez didn't get a chance to try win the game with less than a minute on the clock as he has done it before and was rolling at that stage in the game!!

LuckyLloyd

http://www.thejetsblog.com/

Good source for detailed Jets news by the way.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SancMa00.htm

Sanchez did improve last year, but so did the offense around him. Adding Holmes to the mix gave him an extra go to target capable of circus catches, and that helped him a lot.

His NY / A did not improve, nor did his TD%.

Meanwhile, his DVOA did not improve much from 2009, FO ranking him 28, up from 35 in 2009:

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb

I'm cherry picking bad stats here - you can go the other way if you wish. But there are enough bad reference points to lay bare any claim that he became a "good" QB last year. He wasn't completely dreadful like in 2009, but he was one of the very worst starters in the league.

tallaghtoutlaws

bubba gump wrote: »

From reading your responses I would guess that your either a Pats or Miami fan as your anti-Sanchez bias is obvious.

Anytime a fan of another AFC East team disses the Jets we are automatically bias eh? I hate the Jets as an organisation and not their players. I hate Rex Ryan but I think he is a fantastic coach, The Jets have one of the best teams in the NFL right now but their main problem is QB it is that simple for me. If you want to use the age old bias excuse that is fair enough. I have been following this game for 20 odd years, I have played this game for the best of 7 years and have been coaching for near 4 years. Ask anyone in here when my bias shows you will know about it. In fact I have praised the Jets on more than one occasion in here as much as it pains me.

Rex look for a new [URL="javascript:void(0);"]QB[/URL]?? Do you know how hard it is to find a franchise [URL="javascript:void(0);"]qb[/URL]? Every GM in the league would be delighted with what Sanchez has achieved in his first 2 years i.e. 6/7 fourth quarter/[URL="javascript:void(0);"]OT[/URL] comebacks, 4 road playoff wins where he played very solid, and marked improvement from year 1 to year 2. He is by no means the finished article or a top 10 qb yet but the potential is obvious for everyone to see, well those who want to look objectively!

Who said he was finished? I said the Jets will look for that Franchise QB long term. I never said right now and they were going to replace Sanchez and please take the "well those who want to look objectively out of it" it will get old very quickly. As for his potential that is the problem here. He has potential to be a good QB but he will never be that guy who will lead you to a Super Bowl and be an elite QB. It is that simple. If the Jets get to the Super Bowl it will be down to the whole package and not just Sanchez.

Belicheck is supposed to be a defensive mastermind just like Rex, (Pats super bowls built more on defense than offense i believe) so anytime his defense is dismantled for 3 tds by a young qb on the road in the playoffs has to be acknowledged. Sanchez does not have unlimited time in the pocket due to the O-line and is known for adjusting well when the pocket collapses and for throwing on the run e.g. Cleveland game last year and Holmes TD v Steelers in AFCGM.

The Pats defense was sh1t last year and I would be the first to admit it. I think Bill has failed to address certain issues of his defense in the last 4 to 5 seasons. As for time in the pocket Sanchez stands behind one of the best O-lines in the league and in that playoff game against the Pats he had all day to stand there and throw as the Pats defense had absolutely no pass rush last season. One of the worst Pass rushers in the league last season.

Sure Sanchez has a lot of good qualities but he will never be an elite QB and for me will never be a top 10 QB. His ablity to get the job done right now is awesome but I can't see him ever leading the Jets to a Super Bowl.

But hey if you want to chalk it down to my bias against the Jets fair enough. You would be wrong to do so but hey if you want to be like most Jets fans and over rate Sanchez go for it. And for the record its not just AFC East fans that think the same as I do either.

I fear the day we lose Brady as I honestly don't see a Franchise QB on our bench just like I didn't see it in Cassel when most Pats fans did.

Sanchez played very well in both AFCCG's. In the Steelers game he was hit while throwing the ball, it happens, and highlighted that the O-line didn't always give him lots of time especially against great defenses like the steelers. There was a case for the "tuck rule" on that play too, do you remember the time that was most famously used?? The play calling and poor execution by the whole offense caused that stop on the goal line.

Yes the whole offense was at fault and who exactly is part of that Offense? Oh thats right Mark Sanchez. Those two passes he attempted were his fault. Especially the one thrown straight at the Steelers D tackle. Sanchez had plenty of room. As for the tuck rule are you talking about the fumble which led to the TD? If you are you need to remind yourself of what the actual rule is. Sanchez was pump faking when the ball was knocked out of his hand, the ball came out when his arm was back not when it was going forward so by definition of the rules it was a fumble.

I will answer your sad attempt to use it against me though. The controversy when Brady did it was that Brady clearly had the ambition to tuck it and move but he was hit and it came lose. Now before anyone heard of the tuck rule we all thought fumble as lets be honest no one heard of the rule. But the rule states that if the QB while in forward motion goes to tuck the ball its considered a forward pass and therefore incomplete if he drops it and it hits the ground. Hence why Brady didn't fumble it. Now any Pats fan with a brain will tell you that we got out of jail with that one. It should have been a fumble but hey who were we to complain that the NFL had a rule to keep us the football. Rule 3, Section 22, Article 2, Note 2 to be precise. BUT the tuck rule does not come into play here for Sanchez so before trying to look smart in future at least know the rule. Sanchez's arm was clearly back and was not going forward.

Finally, the biggest reason why I am excited about Sanchez this year and into the future is that had we stopped big ben on 3rd down to end the game I truly believed Sanchez had a great chance to march us down the field and have a legitimate shot in the endzone against the number 1 defense in the league. I would be interested what any steeler fans on this board have to say about this because i reckon they were mightily relieved that Sanchez didn't get a chance to try win the game with less than a minute on the clock as he has done it before and was rolling at that stage in the game!!

The bit in bold probably would have but lets be honest he should have been fired up all game. He can be the comeback kid all he wants but the Jets and Sanchez only came into the game in the 3rd quarter and that 4th and 1 stop was huge and they left themselves short.

As for the chance to win the game? How about doing it from the kick off. Nothing more than grinds my gears when fans use that an excuse to say oh look we didn't have time to win the game. You had the whole first half and lets be honest the Jets were struggling in the First half. Whatever Rex Ryan said to them in the locker room got their heads out of their asses and got them fired up. They were always chasing the game then.

For me its simple. The Colts and Pats didn't bring it to the Jets and the Jets punished them for it. I said it to every Jets fan I know when that AFC Championship game was played that it was going to be a lot tougher than the Colts and Pats and as usual they told me oh but we beat two of the best AFC teams out there. The Jets had to raise their game and they failed to do so.

Peyton Manning

I think what TO is trying to say is that the Jets would be better off trading for a quality QB such as Tim Tebow if they wish to win the Superbowl.

/troll :-P

bubba gump

Well why wouldn't I bring out the "bias" argument when you are writing off a young qb saying he is never going to be top 10 or the guy to lead the Jets to the Super Bowl, especially considering he has got so close 2 years in a row. I respect you experience but I think I'm entitled to question why your opinion is so set in stone.

You say hes never going to be the guy, but how do you know this? Aaron Rodgers was on the bench his first few years, I bet few Packers thought or moreso knew he would be the guy after 2 years as a clipboard holder. A comparison between the two of them after 2 years would have been nice but unfortunately it doesn't exist. Eli Manning hasn't looked the guy in the past two seasons but he was super bowl MVP 3 years ago. These things are never clear cut and your unwavering conviction regarding Sanchez's future's leads me to put it down to bias. I am the same and try to find holes in Pats/Miami players, but will never completely write them off so quick especially when they have done many good things early in their career. I haven't written off Henne yet. He has shown flashes, especially against the Jets, and entering his second full season as a starter he "could" be good, who knows!

No QB ever wins a SB by themselves, its always a team effort e.g. Dan Marino, Brady last year.

I do not overrate Sanchez. I have said he is not top 10, but believe he could be within a few years. Where me and you differ in our assessments is that I say his past 2 seasons have set a solid base to to what "may" become a very good career where as you are certain that they wont. After all Derek Anderson was a pro bowler, no one knows what going to happen in the NFL!

I'll bow to your knowledge of the tuck rule. I was of the belief that if a qb's hand was moving forward then it was an incomplete pass. It was a very close call in that regard but maybe I'm wrong.

As regards his 1st half performance in the Steelers game. The pass protection was very poor in the 1st half and the run game was non-existent. However Sanchez never lost his composure or dropped his head, he lead from the front and had a good second half. Compare this to Joe Flacco who is also a very capable young QB but has looked like a rabbit in the headlights everyone of his postseason games except for the Kansas Game last year.

I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on this issue and wait to see how the season plays out. If he has a poor year and looks to have regressed or not improved I will have no problem in accepting that you we're correct, but I think you should go into the season with more of an open mind.

bubba gump

Tom_Brady wrote: »

I think what TO is trying to say is that the Jets would be better off trading for a quality QB such as Tim Tebow if they wish to win the Superbowl.
troll :-P

:eek:

bubba gump

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

http://www.thejetsblog.com/

Good source for detailed Jets news by the way.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SancMa00.htm

Sanchez did improve last year, but so did the offense around him. Adding Holmes to the mix gave him an extra go to target capable of circus catches, and that helped him a lot.

His NY / A did not improve, nor did his TD%.

Meanwhile, his DVOA did not improve much from 2009, FO ranking him 28, up from 35 in 2009:

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb

I'm cherry picking bad stats here - you can go the other way if you wish. But there are enough bad reference points to lay bare any claim that he became a "good" QB last year. He wasn't completely dreadful like in 2009, but he was one of the very worst starters in the league.

Cant argue with them stats but what I'm saying is that he has achieved enough and had enough quality games, many under the added pressure of playoff football, to be somewhat optimistic that he has a chance to become a very good qb in this league

"there's lies, more lies then statistics!"

LuckyLloyd

bubba gump wrote: »

Cant argue with them stats but what I'm saying is that he has achieved enough and had enough quality games, many under the added pressure of playoff football, to be somewhat optimistic that he has a chance to become a very good qb in this league

"there's lies, more lies then statistics!"

Basically, he's been afforded the opportunity to start for two seasons on a very good roster, with an exceptional defense that has kept numerous games close despite his mistakes. It's basically one of the best situations a rookie has had to come in and be the man over the past decade, and he's done the bare minimum one would expect in such a context.

Here's another way to think about the situation - I reckon the Jets would be much improved last year and this year (probably) if they had Ryan Fitzpatrick under center; while I'm not sure Sanchez would have survived last year if starting for the Bills.

Additionally, if Sanchez had come into start in the same circumstances that the likes of Clausen and Russell have had the past few years, I'd think it isn't unreasonable to suggest he would be second / third string somewhere now.

All that said, the roster around him should maintain a similar level for the next few years, so he will have the time needed to continue gradual improvements and get there. But if he does end up a viable above average starting QB, he owes an absolute ton to how well the organisation as a whole has built around him since he was drafted.

bubba gump

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Basically, he's been afforded the opportunity to start for two seasons on a very good roster, with an exceptional defense that has kept numerous games close despite his mistakes. It's basically one of the best situations a rookie has had to come in and be the man over the past decade, and he's done the bare minimum one would expect in such a context.

Here's another way to think about the situation - I reckon the Jets would be much improved last year and this year (probably) if they had Ryan Fitzpatrick under center; while I'm not sure Sanchez would have survived last year if starting for the Bills.

Additionally, if Sanchez had come into start in the same circumstances that the likes of Clausen and Russell have had the past few years, I'd think it isn't unreasonable to suggest he would be second / third string somewhere now.

All that said, the roster around him should maintain a similar level for the next few years, so he will have the time needed to continue gradual improvements and get there. But if he does end up a viable above average starting QB, he owes an absolute ton to how well the organisation as a whole has built around him since he was drafted.

Yes Sanchez has come into a great situation but it is not dissimilar to Aaron Rodgers, Philip Rivers who came into strong teams but also had the advantage of going through their NFL growing pains in training camps and against 2nd/3rd string in preseason. Sanchez went through these same problems in front of the NYC media (a fact that should not be ignored) and came out the other side with 2 AFCCG appearances and great postseason numbers.



Joe Flacco and Matt Ryan came into almost identical situations. Matt and Joe had better regular season numbers than Sanchez their first 2 years but did not have the same overall success ie playoffs. It should also be mentioned that they started a lot more college games than Sanchez who probably came out too early but as you mentioned will have no regrets about that situation.



Ryan Fitzpatrick probably would have had better numbers with the Jets than Sanchez but we have no idea how he would have fared in the postseason, whether on the days that the Jets defense didn't perform he would he be able to drive the field in the 4th quarter and OT like Sanchez has done. It would appear that Fitz's ceiling is finite at this stage but we don't yet know where Sanchez's is at. The best team always look at the longer term so whilst the Jets FO would be extremely disappointed in losing consecutive AFCCG's they are content that with this qb they should/could have success for the next decade.

tallaghtoutlaws

bubba gump wrote: »

Well why wouldn't I bring out the "bias" argument when you are writing off a young qb saying he is never going to be top 10 or the guy to lead the Jets to the Super Bowl, especially considering he has got so close 2 years in a row. I respect you experience but I think I'm entitled to question why your opinion is so set in stone.

This makes no sense what so ever. So everytime someone writes off a young QB they are bias? :rolleyes: You can challenge my opinion all you want just don't confuse a bias one and a non bias one. I think Tebow sucks donkey d1ck. Does that make me bias also? He is a young QB. Anyways I have given my opinion on Sanchez.

You say hes never going to be the guy, but how do you know this? Aaron Rodgers was on the bench his first few years

Yes he was and he was given time to grow behind a guy like Brett Favre. Besides that when Rodgers finally took over it was obvious he would be a great success. Sanchez has started two year now and its obvious he will never be a great. Manning, Brady, Rodgers all 3 are elite and had instant impacts when they got their shot. Brees is up there also had glimmer when he started but was unlucky with his situation starting out.

Then you have Big Ben guys has the sh1t when you need him the most. I would never put him in the top class but there is something about him. Philip Rivers awesome QB but the Chargers themselves will never amount to anything. I would put a minimum of 14 guys ahead of Sanchez in how I would rate QBs.

I bet few Packers thought or moreso knew he would be the guy after 2 years as a clipboard holder. A comparison between the two of them after 2 years would have been nice but unfortunately it doesn't exist.

And this is what I was getting at earlier with Ryan looking for the guy that will eventually take over from Sanchez. Sanchez should have sat on the bench behind someone but the Jets put so much faith in him because him came from USC. Had he grown on the bench with what he has as talent now who knows he might have fallen into solid category if he fixed himself.

Eli Manning hasn't looked the guy in the past two seasons but he was super bowl MVP 3 years ago.

Eli Manning is better than Sanchez but is also just in the good category. That Giants defense won that game for the Giants. Christ they demolished the Pats offense in 2007 that demolished everyone else.

These things are never clear cut and your unwavering conviction regarding Sanchez's future's leads me to put it down to bias.

Ah ok so just because you can't fault Sanchez and use bad examples to try discredit mine you fall on your conclusion. If I was that bias against the Jets do you not think I wouldn't have said anything good about them in the first place. Your theory is shocking at best.

I am the same and try to find holes in Pats/Miami players, but will never completely write them off so quick especially when they have done many good things early in their career. I haven't written off Henne yet. He has shown flashes, especially against the Jets, and entering his second full season as a starter he "could" be good, who knows!

I could write off many Pats players and Dolphins players now for you if I wanted to. Do you want me to? As a Pats fan I am the first on here to slate guys when they are bad. And the Pats have some pretty bad players on our roster right now.

No QB ever wins a SB by themselves, its always a team effort e.g. Dan Marino, Brady last year.

No sh1t sherlock but many QBs will put their team in the situation to do so. I never said he would do it on his own.

I do not overrate Sanchez. I have said he is not top 10, but believe he could be within a few years. Where me and you differ in our assessments is that I say his past 2 seasons have set a solid base to to what "may" become a very good career where as you are certain that they wont. After all Derek Anderson was a pro bowler, no one knows what going to happen in

Its clear you do and the Pro Bowl is a joke and nothing more than a popularity contest and Derek Anderson was popular. Look at Brandon Merriweater a safety with the Pats. Don't rate the chap at all and think he is so inconsistent it hurts but he is a 2 time pro bowler. Oh look I rubbished one of my own Pats players.

I'll bow to your knowledge of the tuck rule. I was of the belief that if a qb's hand was moving forward then it was an incomplete pass. It was a very close call in that regard but maybe I'm wrong.

close call my ass look at the highlights again.

As regards his 1st half performance in the Steelers game. The pass protection was very poor in the 1st half and the run game was non-existent. However Sanchez never lost his composure or dropped his head, he lead from the front and had a good second half. Compare this to Joe Flacco who is also a very capable young QB but has looked like a rabbit in the headlights everyone of his postseason games except for the Kansas Game last year.

Difference of opinion here and we will agree to disagree. I don't agree that the pass protection was bad. The problem was that because the run game was shut down the Steelers were forcing the Jets to throw and when the Jets have to depend on their passing game it knocks their gameplan and in my opinion as I said in this forum many times before Sanchez is better when they aren't forcing him to throw all the time. Look at the games he excelled in compared to those he didn't he will have a lot less attempts than in those he is throwing too much.

And this leads me on to my opinion. I don't think he is a guy who will be able to carry the pressure of having to pass all the time to get the important win regardless of the few comeback wins he had. Right now he fits the Jets system and when the Jets run the ball Sanchez will pick up the slack and get you yards. But as a pass heavy QB I dont see it ever happening and this is what sets the Elite apart.

I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on this issue and wait to see how the season plays out. If he has a poor year and looks to have regressed or not improved I will have no problem in accepting that you we're correct, but I think you should go into the season with more of an open mind.

Most likely and I always have an open mind when it comes to football. If I didn't I wouldn't be coaching the game. It is of my opinion that Sanchez wont ever be a top QB. Did I say I want him to fail? Nope Did I say he was sh1t? Nope. If he proves me wrong he proves me wrong. I am not always right but who is with their opinions. We can only base our opinion on what we see now. And that is how I see it.

JohnnyRyan99

LuckyLloyd

Good post bubba gump. I'd reckon Ryan's situation was worse, and the success the Falcons enjoyed his first season surprised a lot of people - with him at the helm they over performed their talent levels.

But the Flacco comparison is very good, and their are similarities with what both franchises asked either rookie to do the first year - very stripped down, run heavy offenses. But it would be fantasy to suggest Sanchez has got anywhere near Flacco's production over his first two years. Flacco is a good NFL QB at this stage, and has all the tools to remain so.

I don't want to discount playoff comparisons, but you're ultimately talking about much smaller sample sizes where match ups are key. Flacco has three playoff losses, two of which were @ Pitt, and the other @ Indy. Even the great Peyton Manning was labelled as 'soft' in the postseason for years before he secured his ring. Being clutch is great (and Sanchez has executed well in the big moments), but when it comes to trying to be better than merely scraping into wildcard spots year after year, you are going to need consistent big number production at QB.

bubba gump

This debate has gone as far its going to go, too much repitition of points already made will occur if we continue. These "discussions" are best held face to face over a few pints!

I will let my QB do his own talking on the field this year and we can evaluate him at a later stage in the season.

However I will respond to a few of your points which I took exception to.

The question of why your opinion was set in stone did make sense. Please tell me.

You did not read my comment regarding Rodgers correctly. His first three seasons in the NFL were on the bench, Sanchez was on the field. Rodgers showed promise his first season "starting" which was his fourth in the league in total, Sanchez is only entering his third and is improving (or fixing himself), quite possibly, at the same rate as Rodgers did behind closed doors, we don't know.

"No sh1t sherlock but many QBs will put their team in the situation to do so. I never said he would do it on his own."

I don't know how to quote individually but this shows the lack of thought and poor attempts at humor/sarcasm you are placing in your responses. My response was to the below,

"If the Jets get to the Super Bowl it will be down to the whole package and not just Sanchez."

We rate Sanchez different, I say his numbers are not great but his achievements to date speak volumes and have to be acknowledged. Couple this with fact he is still learning,growing,improving it is not "over-estimating him" to believe he has a chance to be a top 10 QB in the future, around the level of romo, schaub, ryan. You have a gut feeling, I presume, because I cant see where you stated why Sanchez would never by a top 10 qb. I don't believe QB's cant really be fully evaluated until 4/5 years into their career. This is not WR or CB where the 3rd year is often the breakout one.

bubba gump

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Good post bubba gump. I'd reckon Ryan's situation was worse, and the success the Falcons enjoyed his first season surprised a lot of people - with him at the helm they over performed their talent levels.

But the Flacco comparison is very good, and their are similarities with what both franchises asked either rookie to do the first year - very stripped down, run heavy offenses. But it would be fantasy to suggest Sanchez has got anywhere near Flacco's production over his first two years. Flacco is a good NFL QB at this stage, and has all the tools to remain so.

I don't want to discount playoff comparisons, but you're ultimately talking about much smaller sample sizes where match ups are key. Flacco has three playoff losses, two of which were @ Pitt, and the other @ Indy. Even the great Peyton Manning was labelled as 'soft' in the postseason for years before he secured his ring. Being clutch is great (and Sanchez has executed well in the big moments), but when it comes to trying to be better than merely scraping into wildcard spots year after year, you are going to need consistent big number production at QB.

I agree Lucky that Ryan has distinguished himself and that Sanchez has to take a big step up in the regular season, red zone, completion stats etc.

My point really with both yourself and TO is that there is plenty to be optimistic about with Snachez. If you had said to Rex and Mike when they drafted him that he would have, not really lead, but been apart of 2 AFCCG in his first 2 seasons they would have bitten your hand off!

Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco really took the gloss off overachieving rookie QB's!

His promise may fail to materialise but I am going into the season with plenty of optimism regarding the whole team:D

LuckyLloyd

bubba gump wrote: »

I agree Lucky that Ryan has distinguished himself and that Sanchez has to take a big step up in the regular season, red zone, completion stats etc.

My point really with both yourself and TO is that there is plenty to be optimistic about with Snachez. If you had said to Rex and Mike when they drafted him that he would have, not really lead, but been apart of 2 AFCCG in his first 2 seasons they would have bitten your hand off!

Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco really took the gloss off overachieving rookie QB's!

His promise may fail to materialise but I am going into the season with plenty of optimism regarding the whole team:D

I think we'll be competitive, and I hope to be proved wrong on Sanchez. Ultimately though, I think a bunch of second string / starters for poor franchise type guys could have done as well. But I can't prove that, so we'll have to leave it for now and revisit at the end of the year...

tallaghtoutlaws

bubba gump wrote: »

This debate has gone as far its going to go, too much repitition of points already made will occur if we continue. These "discussions" are best held face to face over a few pints!

Very true

The question of why your opinion was set in stone did make sense. Please tell me.

You lost me here I have no idea which part of my last post you are referring to. To multi quote everytime you want to quote a part of text highlight it and hit the quote button up top.

You did not read my comment regarding Rodgers correctly. His first three seasons in the NFL were on the bench, Sanchez was on the field. Rodgers showed promise his first season "starting" which was his fourth in the league in total, Sanchez is only entering his third and is improving (or fixing himself), quite possibly, at the same rate as Rodgers did behind closed doors, we don't know.

I did read your post but I will elaborate what I meant. Although I believe QBs do need some time behind a solid starter I also believe that you can tell a lot about a QB rookie or not on how he performs in his first games. Had Favre not been in Green Bay Rodgers in my eyes would have started earlier. The kid showed he had the required intangibles in preseason games and when he finally started.

Although Sanchez was a rookie when he started I feel that many people use the rookie thing too much when they talk about failing QBs. There is a lot of things you can't learn in a locker room or on a bench.

What Rodgers would have learned over Sanchez was the tactical side of the game without the pressure of doing it. But many said Rodgers was ready after his first season on the bench hence why the Packers were so eager to offload Favre.

"No sh1t sherlock but many QBs will put their team in the situation to do so. I never said he would do it on his own."

I don't know how to quote individually but this shows the lack of thought and poor attempts at humor/sarcasm you are placing in your responses. My response was to the below,

"If the Jets get to the Super Bowl it will be down to the whole package and not just Sanchez."

Lack of thought or humour? Yeah you will get used to that with my posts after a while. I apologise for this one as the lack of quotes it seemed like you were stating the obvious. Had I known it was in response I would have left it.

We rate Sanchez different, I say his numbers are not great but his achievements to date speak volumes and have to be acknowledged. Couple this with fact he is still learning,growing,improving it is not "over-estimating him" to believe he has a chance to be a top 10 QB in the future, around the level of romo, schaub, ryan. You have a gut feeling, I presume, because I cant see where you stated why Sanchez would never by a top 10 qb. I don't believe QB's cant really be fully evaluated until 4/5 years into their career. This is not WR or CB where the 3rd year is often the breakout one.

I agee with the 4/5 year for the majority of QBs but the elite guys usually hit the nail on the head with their first 2 years as starters with the odd two exceptions.

Adding to this though I really though I put in why I think Sanchez wont be elite. Too many hits to the head most likely and I apologise. Here it is:

Sanchez for me is best with short to mid range type passes. When he goes long his accuracy is not the best. If I were a Jets fan it would frustrate me to see him throw long passes inaccurately especially after seeing him roll out of the pocket throwing 60 yard bomb which he has done at times. I suppose its inconsistency when throwing long. I also find he forces passes in tight situations or throw passes too high at times.

I also find when he is throwing often his accuracy lags and he seems to be rattled. As I said in one of my last posts that when he throws a lot less his numbers are solid but the more the Jets get him to throw he starts to throw more and more bad passes.

And in fact I knew I said it somewhere when you add the above to this for me he will never be top 10.

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

Difference of opinion here and we will agree to disagree. I don't agree that the pass protection was bad. The problem was that because the run game was shut down the Steelers were forcing the Jets to throw and when the Jets have to depend on their passing game it knocks their gameplan and in my opinion as I said in this forum many times before Sanchez is better when they aren't forcing him to throw all the time. Look at the games he excelled in compared to those he didn't he will have a lot less attempts than in those he is throwing too much.

And this leads me on to my opinion. I don't think he is a guy who will be able to carry the pressure of having to pass all the time to get the important win regardless of the few comeback wins he had. Right now he fits the Jets system and when the Jets run the ball Sanchez will pick up the slack and get you yards. But as a pass heavy QB I dont see it ever happening and this is what sets the Elite apart.

SAINTRON

Game moved to a more sociable time of 7pm GMT tomorrow, as Irene threatens the area....

Should be good....Hope Ely gets another shiner....in jest....

Jordans n Timbs

off topic but isint mark sanchez bangin meadow soprano from sopranos...



lol sanchez >>>rogers