Irish wings for World Cup

Coburger

Hi, who do you think should start on the wings for Ireland in the World Cup. Does anyone think that Fitzgerald deserves to start? His form has not really picked up. I liked the way Trimble played over the last two games.

TopOfTheRight

Earls and Bowe first choice, Trimble next in line and Fitz just about fourth at this stage

gregers85

TopOfTheRight wrote: »

Earls and Bowe first choice, Trimble next in line and Fitz just about fourth at this stage

I'd agree with this, probably a bit more 50-50 between earls nd trimble at the mo!

durkadurka

Yep

Amazotheamazing

Trimble has really impressed, and Bowe is a certainty. I'd go with McFadden and Earls. I feel for Fitz but it's not happening for him atm.

wixfjord

Definitely Earls and Bowe.
I really think we don't give ourselves enough credit, the two of these are two of the best wingers in the WC.

IMO we should be using them in field more.

Superbus

Fitzgerald shouldn't go. In fact, I think it'd be beneficial for his career to stay and get good, low pressure gametime with Leinster; he just seems so low on confidence.

Therefore, it should be Bowe and Trimble at the WC, with Earls just a toss of a coin behind Trimble and McFadden as cover for both wing and centre.

wixfjord

Superbus wrote: »

Fitzgerald shouldn't go. In fact, I think it'd be beneficial for his career to stay and get good, low pressure gametime with Leinster; he just seems so low on confidence.

Therefore, it should be Bowe and Trimble at the WC, with Earls just a toss of a coin behind Trimble and McFadden as cover for both wing and centre.

No way you could drop Earls. He's been probably Ireland's best player over the last year imo.
I really think he could have a big WC.

Colm_OReilly

It'd be harsh to drop Earls but Trimble played a stormer last night. Can Trimble play 11 though? Tommy mightn't start next week anyway, so you could have Earls at 11 and Trimble at 14?

Digifriendly

Earls is a class act but if he had passed inside to McFadden near the end rather than kicking I think Ireland would have scored. However I would start with Bowe and Earls with Trimble on the bench as an impact sub.

GerM

Unpopular as it may be, I'd go with Trimble and Earls. Bowe's form has been patchy enough. Aside from the England game, he was quiet in the 6N and he was relatively poor for the Ospreys towards the end of the season. Unless Bowe shows something in the next week I would have Trimble and Earls.

val_jester

GerM wrote: »

Unpopular as it may be, I'd go with Trimble and Earls. Bowe's form has been patchy enough. Aside from the England game, he was quiet in the 6N and he was relatively poor for the Ospreys towards the end of the season. Unless Bowe shows something in the next week I would have Trimble and Earls.

Considering he only came back from injury, after missing the first two games, I think you have to give him a bit of time to get up to full speed. Bowe is one of the best wingers in the world and has to start. Trimble or earls is much tighter but I think you have to go with earls after his season and because of his speed.

Digifriendly: McFadden was covered by bonnaire, its unclear whether or not mcfadden called for the pass. If earls had been lucky he would have scored as it was he was inches away from collecting the ball.

totallegend

For a minute there, I thought I'd stumbled on to MunsterFans.com.

Trimble is a country mile ahead of Earls at the moment.

CatFromHue

Trimble has played two games on the wing, Earls has played one game in the centre. It's not fair to compare how Earls faired in the centre to how Trimble played on the wing yesterday.

I would be very interested to see how Bowe get's on when he gets a run out as I thought his form last season was patchy, granted he was coming back from injury.

Gracelessly Tom

Bowe and Earls for me. Just think both are capable of doing something special and scoring a try from nothing. Trimble is very good and playing well but I don't have the same belief in him as I do the other two. Fitz will be lucky to get on the plane, McFadden can cover wing and centre.

GerM

val_jester wrote: »

Considering he only came back from injury, after missing the first two games, I think you have to give him a bit of time to get up to full speed. Bowe is one of the best wingers in the world and has to start. Trimble or earls is much tighter but I think you have to go with earls after his season and because of his speed.

I agree that he needs some leeway due to returning from injury but his form for the Ospreys was far from where it once was also and he had plenty of game time under his belt. He returned to the Ospreys starting side in February and only got on the scoresheet once for the rest of the season in about 8 or 9 appearances. Because he's playing in Wales, his performances tend to be off the radar somewhat but players in Ireland are lambasted for similar try scoring rates.

I've looked at the Earls incident again and I'd have to go with my initial reaction. A half decent pass would have put McFadden in. All that was required was a flat pass for him to run onto. Bonnaire was running towards Earls on a diagonal and not specifically covering McFadden. He was also slowing up. Unless Bonnaire flung himself into the air and slapped the ball, he wouldn't have been able to disrupt the pass; he wasn't in the line of a potential pass. A grubber through should have seen McFadden touch down also.

irishbucsfan

Tommy Bowe is one of the best wingers in the world. Dropping him if he's fit is madness, especially based on performances for a club squad that was falling apart.

Earls and Bowe will be our wingers.

Otacon

Unless something happens in the next few weeks [injuries etc], our wings should be Bowe, Earls and Trimble [bench] with McFadden available for the games against the USA and Russia.

Fitz has been given more time than anyone could ask for to prove himself and he just hasn't. He doesn't have his confidence back yet.

irishbucsfan

Really doubt that McFadden will travel ahead of Fitzgerald. Fitz was very good against Scotland and if McFadden was being considered as a winger ahead of him they would have started him on the wing by now. I think McFadden is being kept in case D'Arcy doesn't recover, and if D'Arcy is fit he won't travel at all.

Although, McFadden could start on the wing against England, because I'd doubt Bowe will. I'd prefer to see Trimble and Earls, but I certainly don't think McFadden would be a massive step down.

CatFromHue

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Really doubt that McFadden will travel ahead of Fitzgerald. Fitz was very good against Scotland and if McFadden was being considered as a winger ahead of him they would have started him on the wing by now. I think McFadden is being kept in case D'Arcy doesn't recover, and if D'Arcy is fit he won't travel at all.

Although, McFadden could start on the wing against England, because I'd doubt Bowe will. I'd prefer to see Trimble and Earls, but I certainly don't think McFadden would be a massive step down.

Fitz was very busy against the Scots, he got around and got involved. He wasn't very effective though.

GerM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Tommy Bowe is one of the best wingers in the world. Dropping him if he's fit is madness, especially based on performances for a club squad that was falling apart.

Earls and Bowe will be our wingers.

Ospreys were having a lot of issues, agreed, but it wasn't like they were going out and being hammered every week. They put up a few decent scores and there were tries being scored. They managed to get into the play offs. Bowe scored one try for them in 2011. He's one of the best in the world when he's on form but it remains to be seen if he's on form. Munster were putting in some ropey performances but Earls still stood out. Bowe's spot shouldn't be set in stone by any stretch. If he comes out next week and plays like we know he can then that's fantastic but if he plays like he did for the majority of 2011 then I would have Trimble in ahead of him. I think he'll be in the team anyway though. DK's loyalty won't see him left out.

bossa_nova

Trimble without a doubt is miles ahead of both earls and fitz, so two more games should see bowe back at 14 and trimble moving to 11 for world cup,

copacetic

Very surprised so many would start Earls.

Trimble and Bowe for me, Earls on the bench and McFadden on the plane.

MungBean

I agree Fitz has had more time than anyone but hasnt shown he's back to his former glory. But even at that he is ahead of McFadden as far as the wing goes.

I also agree that Trimble has put his hand up for Bowes spot and unless Bowe can prove its his before the WC Trimble should get it. I know Bowe is good but unless he proves it consistently he doesnt start ahead of someone who does. Earls and Trimble the starting wingers with Bowe on the bench. Depending on what Kidney is doing for FB cover it could well be Jones instead of Fitz as the fourth choice winger.

CatFromHue

Trimble's performance against the all blacks in New Plymouth when we lost 66 to something was one of the best performances by an Irish winger in a long time.

val_jester

GerM wrote: »

I agree that he needs some leeway due to returning from injury but his form for the Ospreys was far from where it once was also and he had plenty of game time under his belt. He returned to the Ospreys starting side in February and only got on the scoresheet once for the rest of the season in about 8 or 9 appearances. Because he's playing in Wales, his performances tend to be off the radar somewhat but players in Ireland are lambasted for similar try scoring rates.

I've looked at the Earls incident again and I'd have to go with my initial reaction. A half decent pass would have put McFadden in. All that was required was a flat pass for him to run onto. Bonnaire was running towards Earls on a diagonal and not specifically covering McFadden. He was also slowing up. Unless Bonnaire flung himself into the air and slapped the ball, he wouldn't have been able to disrupt the pass; he wasn't in the line of a potential pass. A grubber through should have seen McFadden touch down also.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this. I think you have to back earls in this situation. We don't know if mcfadden called for it or not. I think you have to back earls in this situation.

Tomtom364

GerM wrote: »

I agree that he needs some leeway due to returning from injury but his form for the Ospreys was far from where it once was also and he had plenty of game time under his belt. He returned to the Ospreys starting side in February and only got on the scoresheet once for the rest of the season in about 8 or 9 appearances. Because he's playing in Wales, his performances tend to be off the radar somewhat but players in Ireland are lambasted for similar try scoring rates.

I've looked at the Earls incident again and I'd have to go with my initial reaction. A half decent pass would have put McFadden in. All that was required was a flat pass for him to run onto. Bonnaire was running towards Earls on a diagonal and not specifically covering McFadden. He was also slowing up. Unless Bonnaire flung himself into the air and slapped the ball, he wouldn't have been able to disrupt the pass; he wasn't in the line of a potential pass. A grubber through should have seen McFadden touch down also.

Cant agree here.
Bonnair is right between the two and could easily stop the pass.

Also, the picture you have chosen is misleading.
Bonnair was right between earls and macfadden, so earls had to make his mind up. it wasnt till earls began to chip that macfadden pulled slightly ahead of bonnair

in this image earls is already chipping the ball.

EDIT: also, watching in in slowmotion and keeping my eyes n macfadden. he dosnt appear to call for the ball at all (no mouth movement or shaping of his arms to recieve a pass - didnt put his arm out to call)

Systic

Could you stop being so ultra defensive of Earls? Of course it was the wrong option, a 10 year old rugby player would tell you that.

I think its ridiculous that so many people STILL want Earls ahead of Trimble. Lets be honest, that selection is simply not based on form.

irishbucsfan

CatFromHue wrote: »

Fitz was very busy against the Scots, he got around and got involved. He wasn't very effective though.

Neither was anyone else in the team. Fitzgerald has never been a poacher, he's a great rugby player though.

Wouldn't have him starting ahead of Bowe/Earls/Trimble but I would certainly bring him.

Tomtom364

Systic wrote: »

Could you stop being so ultra defensive of Earls? Of course it was the wrong option, a 10 year old rugby player would tell you that.

I think its ridiculous that so many people STILL want Earls ahead of Trimble. Lets be honest, that selection is simply not based on form.

Well im a 20 year old rugby player and I think the pass was the worst of the 3 options open to earls.
kicking was the best option though he should have grubbered instead of chipping.

also, as it stands id have trimble and bowe with earls on the bench.

Systic

No, a flat pass would have been the right option. I don't know what level you play but its pretty obvious.

bossa_nova

val_jester wrote: »

We'll have to agree to disagree on this. I think you have to back earls in this situation. We don't know if mcfadden called for it or not. I think you have to back earls in this situation.

Imo theres two choices here, a pass inside to Mcfadden or earls to go himself, and Ealrs took the worst option to kick it, it was a certain try if ealrs stepped inside traille,

Tomtom364

Systic wrote: »

No, a flat pass would have been the right option. I don't know what level you play but its pretty obvious.

A flat pass would have been the perfect option, if bonnair was an irishman.

I'll ignore the attempt at personal insult.

wixfjord

Tomtom364 wrote: »

Cant agree here.
Bonnair is right between the two and could easily stop the pass.

Also, the picture you have chosen is misleading.
Bonnair was right between earls and macfadden, so earls had to make his mind up. it wasnt till earls began to chip that macfadden pulled slightly ahead of bonnair

in this image earls is already chipping the ball.

EDIT: also, watching in in slowmotion and keeping my eyes n macfadden. he dosnt appear to call for the ball at all (no mouth movement or shaping of his arms to recieve a pass - didnt put his arm out to call)

Ah come on now :rolleyes:

First of all, a picture is a picture, and this is a great angle.
Earls has plenty of time to pop it inside, and chose not to.
I don't know what you're suggesting about McFadden in that last bit, but it hasn't anything to do with the situation.

Tomtom364

wixfjord wrote: »

Ah come on now :rolleyes:

First of all, a picture is a picture, and this is a great angle.
Earls has plenty of time to pop it inside, and chose not to.
I don't know what you're suggesting about McFadden in that last bit, but it hasn't anything to do with the situation.

I disagree on him having a good pass inside option.
Think we will all just have to leave it there as a difference of opinion.

On macfadden i was just saying that as far as i can see he didnt call for it. Not trying to say anything against the man, I'd have him on the plane to NZ.

CatFromHue

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Neither was anyone else in the team. Fitzgerald has never been a poacher, he's a great rugby player though.

Wouldn't have him starting ahead of Bowe/Earls/Trimble but I would certainly bring him.

3 scrum halves:
2 outhalves: Sexton/RoG
3 centers: Wallace/Darcy/BoD
1 fullback: Kearney
3 wingers: earls/bowe/trimble

That's 12 players. if we go for a 17/13 split there is only room for 1 more back.

That's 1 from Jones, Murphy, McFadden, and Luke Fitz.

I'd bring Jones or Mcfadden ahead of Fitz or Murphy.

GerM

Tomtom364 wrote: »

Cant agree here.
Bonnair is right between the two and could easily stop the pass.

Also, the picture you have chosen is misleading.
Bonnair was right between earls and macfadden, so earls had to make his mind up. it wasnt till earls began to chip that macfadden pulled slightly ahead of bonnair

in this image earls is already chipping the ball.

EDIT: also, watching in in slowmotion and keeping my eyes n macfadden. he dosnt appear to call for the ball at all (no mouth movement or shaping of his arms to recieve a pass - didnt put his arm out to call)

We'll have to disagree. The shadows show that Bonnaire and McFadden are not in line. Also, a pass wouldn't be at McFadden. It would have been a flat pass for McFadden to move onto so you need to imagine a line straight across from Earls, not from Earls to McFadden which would have been a good bit in front of Bonnaire. Earls is still carrying the ball in two hands in the shot, a split second before kicking. I would have preferred if he even just went himself rather than kicking. You're entitled to say it is misleading and still frames often are but it does show the positional situation at the point Earls chose to kick.

McFadden, for his part, should have been screaming for that ball.

Hagz

We have yet to see Earls play on the wing so far in these Warm ups, so Trimble is ahead of him at the moment. But in saying that, if Earls can continue the form he's been in this year, I'd have him.

Earls and Bowe for me.

Tomtom364

CatFromHue wrote: »

3 scrum halves:
2 outhalves: Sexton/RoG
3 centers: Wallace/Darcy/BoD
1 fullback: Kearney
3 wingers: earls/bowe/trimble

That's 12 players. if we go for a 17/13 split there is only room for 1 more back.

That's 1 from Jones, Murphy, McFadden, and Luke Fitz.

I'd bring Jones or Mcfadden ahead of Fitz or Murphy.

I like your squad, but id drop wallace and bring mcfadden AND jones.

GerM wrote: »

We'll have to disagree. The shadows show that Bonnaire and McFadden are not in line. Also, a pass wouldn't be at McFadden. It would have been a flat pass for McFadden to move onto so you need to imagine a line straight across from Earls, not from Earls to McFadden which would have been a good bit in front of Bonnaire. Earls is still carrying the ball in two hands in the shot, a split second before kicking. I would have preferred if he even just went himself rather than kicking. You're entitled to say it is misleading and still frames often are but it does show the positional situation at the point Earls chose to kick.

McFadden, for his part, should have been screaming for that ball.

Aye, agree to disagree.

Almaviva

Clearly Trimble and Bowe for me. Earls on the bench of course. Trimble has never really got it wrong for Ireland even if he cant reach the heights we might dream of. He deserves the chance now.

Squad pick hinges on whether Darcy is fit. I thought word was that he wont be ready? Anyone reliable info on this ?

You could not seriously take someone as inexperienced as Jones. On a summer development tour, yes, but to play world cup games, no.

I would guess Luke hasnt done himself enough damage in the two games so far to write himself out of it at this stage, and so will get in, and probably be picked for the minor games in the hope that it is an investment in his fragile return to form. So I would guess he will go. Then I would say McFadden only gets in if Darcy is out. Murphy on standby.

MungBean

wixfjord wrote: »

Ah come on now :rolleyes:

First of all, a picture is a picture, and this is a great angle.
Earls has plenty of time to pop it inside, and chose not to.
I don't know what you're suggesting about McFadden in that last bit, but it hasn't anything to do with the situation.

Wasnt as clear cut as that, the pass would only have worked as a flat ball. Bonnair would still have been an outstretched arm away from blocking it. What Earls would have seen was Bonnair to his left and behind him a white jersey, short of taking his eye off the defenders and turning to see who was there and where he was theres no way he could have known for sure the pass was on. The pass wasnt 100% on so he didnt do wrong to back himself. I agree a flat pass would probably have resulted in a try but for Earls to throw it would have been just as risky as the chip ahead.

Tomtom364

Almaviva wrote: »

It hinges on whether Darcy is fit. I thought word was that he wont be ready? Anyone reliable info on this ?

You could not seriously take someone as inexperienced as Jones. On a summer development tour, yes, but to play world cup games, no.

I would guess Luke hasnt done himself enough damage in the two games so far to write himself out of it at this stage, and so will get in, and probably be picked for the minor games in the hope that it is an investment in his fragile return to form. So I would guess he will go. Then I would say McFadden only gets in if Darcy is out. Murphy on standby.

Id rather have jones to cover full back then moving a player out of position to do it. also, Murphey wasnt on top form before the injury and we still havnt seen him return. Jones thus far hasnt put a foot wrong.

totallegend

Tomtom364 wrote: »

Id rather have jones to cover full back then moving a player out of position to do it. also, Murphey wasnt on top form before the injury and we still havnt seen him return. Jones thus far hasnt put a foot wrong.

If DK goes for a 16-14 split, then Jones is in with a shout. A 17-13 split does not allow the luxury of a second specialist full-back.

Jones hasn't put a foot wrong, correct, nor has he had to make any real tackles, catch a high ball in a crowd or even taken a man on and beat him one-on-one.

By all means start him next weekend and see how he gets on, but not doing anything wrong is not a basis for a selection.

Almaviva

Tomtom364 wrote: »

Id rather have jones to cover full back then moving a player out of position to do it. also, Murphey wasnt on top form before the injury and we still havnt seen him return. Jones thus far hasnt put a foot wrong.

I dont see playing Earls at fullback as playing him out of position.

theboss80

Almaviva wrote: »

I dont see playing Earls at fullback as playing him out of position.

He is an out and out winger and no need for him there with Kearney/Jones. He could cover if needed but other than that he should be on the wing

barbarians

Trimble and Bowe for me. Fitzgerald doesn't even deserve a place on the bench, Earls gets that spot.

In my opinion though, full-back is the real position for concern at the moment.
Kearney offers nothing except catching high-balls and booting them away again, Fitzgerald didn't impress in the 6 Nations, Earls isn't great there either. Please, please don't get injured again Geordan Murphy.

Hagz

barbarians wrote: »

In my opinion though, full-back is the real position for concern at the moment.
Kearney offers nothing except catching high-balls and booting them away again,

....Kearney's been great. Arguably Ireland's best performer against Scotland, and played well yesterday. He kicked once yesterday and 0 times against Scotland, so clearly he doesn't just boot balls away as you stated. Anyone who has watched Ireland this year will know that we missed Kearney sorely while he was out injured. And I for one am very very pleased he's back. Because he's a very good full-back.

handsomecake

wixfjord wrote: »

Definitely Earls and Bowe.
I really think we don't give ourselves enough credit, the two of these are two of the best wingers in the WC.

IMO we should be using them in field more.

I completely disagree . Ireland don't do strike runners and over the years have been bereft of ideas in open field broken play (bod aside). we do rugby by numbers . Cant remember the last time Ireland scored a Breakout try from their own half . Rob Kearney spent 2 years kicking the ball up on the air.

I do agree that earls and bowe are Ireland's best 2 but nowhere near best at world cup.plenty ahead of them

thebaz

Bowe and McFadden for me - Trimble on the bench (great game last night !)

Earls for me , has yet to live up the hype - Fitzgerald has to dig deep to find some form, quickly

Amazotheamazing

thebaz wrote: »

Bowe and McFadden for me - Trimble on the bench (great game last night !)

Earls for me , has yet to live up the hype - Fitzgerald has to dig deep to find some form, quickly

Hmm, McFadden has one try in 4 caps. covers centre and wing. Also a very good goalkicker.
Bowe has 21 tries in 39 games, covers centre, wing and fullback.
Trimble has 8 tries in 34 games, covers centre and wing.
Earls has 6 tries in 19 games, covers centre, wing and fullback.
Fitz has 2 tries in 22 games, covers centre wing and fullback.

Going by strike rate it's Bowe and Earls for me, even if both will have little enough time to find form (and neither is in great form going by the end of last season). Then Trimble and McFadden. Any of these four could start and I wouldn't have much complaint.

I really like Fitz as a player and he seems like a good guy too, but there's no way he should be playing for Ireland at the minute. Even at his best he was never a prolific try scorer for Ireland (his two tries are against Italy, iirc).

irishbucsfan

I'm just a massive Fitz fan. He does so much work. He's a fantastic all around rugby player

Saying that I understand a wingers job is (conceivably) to score tries. Fitzgerald doesn't do that. So what is the answer? Discard Fitzgerald and waste all that ability? I hope it isn't. He's probably among the most talented all around players we've got. Maybe a position change for him?