''Islam is a religion of peace'' (debate)

sponsoredwalk

Ah, so Islam is objective :pac:

Brown Bomber

Barrington wrote: »

I'm not talking about all capital punishment. I'm talking about that which is not ordered by any judicial system, where people take the law into their own hands with no trial or form of justice system

Okay
But you said you were talking about Capital Punishment. What you are actually talking about is vigilantism. Which is completely unislamic.

I think you should take the time to actually research Islam a little rather than making knee-jerk responses like the above which show a complete lack of understanding. As I said vigilantism is wholly unislamic. And what you've spoken of the judicial system/ form of justice etc would be completely fitting in a description of Shariah courts.

Barrington wrote: »

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1392454/Muslim-girl-Katya-Koren-19-stoned-death-beauty-contest-Ukraine.html

Ah ffs.............That article is complete bull****. The Daily Mail even admitted it later on. The girl was an Orthodox Christian, He was a schoolmate of the girl that was murdered. She wasn't even stoned to death. She was strangled and hit by a blunt object and left in the woods.

Now, Mejlis of the Crimean Tatar People Chairman Mustafa Abdülcemil Qırımoğlu, commonly known as Mustafa Cemiloğlu in Turkey, said the detained teenager, who is of Crimean Tatar descent, was pressured by police into accepting the blame for the murder. “The killing was covered in a distorted way, as if it was a religiously motivated murder, by the media around the world," he is quoted as saying. Though initial reports claimed Koren, like her assailants, was Muslim, officials like Qırımoğlu now say she is actually Christian with Russian roots. "The girl was not Muslim. All these [reports] are a provocation and fabricated news."

Other authorities now believe Koren may have been killed by a psychologically troubled classmate, who robbed and possibly raped her before battering her to death with a rock. "A student did it, killing his classmate," Sergei Reznikov, a senior policeman involved in the case, is quoted by the Telegraph as saying. "There is no other underlying reason, neither religious nor linked with inter-ethnic conflicts."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/01/katya-koren-teen-beauty-queen-stoned-to-death_n_869245.html

You see the Shariah death penalty sentence can only be passed by a Shariah Court after a trial. Even if it was some crazy who killed her for Islam in his own head (which it wasn't) it was unislamic and nothing to do with Shariah.

Barrington wrote: »

Oh, and for what it's worth, I'm opposed to the death penalty in all it's forms, whether it be by stoning or lethal injection, and consider it to be a form of murder too, despite its legality.

Me Too!

Brown Bomber

Malty_T wrote: »

So Hitler wasn't violent because his subjective moral codes made him see Jews as sub human and criminal and therefore their deaths were perfectly ok?

???

Turtwig

Brown Bomber wrote: »

???

Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Nazis, more Nazis etc. etc.

Brown Bomber

Malty_T wrote: »

Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Nazis, more Nazis etc. etc.

So your comparing all these symbols which are widely regarded evil with a court system and then comparing innocent Jewish-Europeans with actual criminals who knew they were breaking the law and it's associated punishments when they committed their crime(s) and finally you compare the Holocaust with capital punishment

Turtwig

Brown Bomber wrote: »

So your comparing all these symbols which are widely regarded evil with a court system and then comparing innocent Jewish-Europeans with actual criminals who knew they were breaking the law and it's associated punishments when they committed their crime(s) and finally you compare the Holocaust with capital punishment

Popular opinion has no bearing here. The Jews knew what crimes they were committing and deserved to be punished accordingly.The punishments were completely non violent because it was approved by the Nazi Laws.

Brown Bomber

I never stated that stoning or any other form of Capital Punishment isn't violent. That would be utterly stupid.

I said that just because Galvasean doesn't agree from his own perspective that certain crimes are capital offenses with a group that sees it from a different perspective that that group is automatically violent.

Turtwig

Brown Bomber wrote: »

I never stated that stoning or any other form of Capital Punishment isn't violent. That would be utterly stupid.

I said that just because Galvasean doesn't agree from his own perspective that certain crimes are capital offenses with a group that sees it from a different perspective that that group is automatically violent.

So is Islamic Punishment violent or not?

4Sheets

Brown Bomber wrote: »

You only heard of Muslims a few years ago??? How is it dividing Europe??

I've edited your post below.

."instead there is irrational fear.. irrational fear of being over-run in our own countries.. irrational fear of immigration. irrational fear of civil war."

So what your saying is that there is a fear instead of tolerance in Europe? How is that the fault of Islam?

What drives your "fear" if you don't mind me asking?

You only heard of Muslims a few years ago??? How is it dividing Europe??

how is it not?we are debating Islam on an Irish website!!...why are people protesting for it and against it ..is it productive?

Now as for you highlighting my quotes and adding words..while you might like such fears are irrational and those that hold are similarly mis-quided or ill-informed then thats is lazy assumption to make..
What drives my fear?? lets just say I watched far too many youtube videos...to take **** from brown bombers who come on here promoting crap like Islam

'I disagree. There is nothing else to say'..lol We could be hearing that alot in the future if you get your way

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VnUH_CPulc

dlofnep

No, it's not a religion of peace. The first few pages of this thread should be deleted, as they are just ad hominem and intended to deflect from the topic at hand.

The punishment for apostasy in Islam? Death.

The reaction for those who 'insult' Muhammad? Murder, riots and signs calling on the death of those who insult him.

Islam is an faith of intolerance. Intolerance and peace are not compatible.

dlofnep

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8NRX5osjhg

dead one

dlofnep wrote: »

The punishment for apostasy in Islam? Death.

Provide reference from Quran (i.e Holly book of Muslim

dlofnep wrote: »

The reaction for those who 'insult' Muhammad? Murder, riots and signs calling on the death of those who insult him.

Provide reference from quran (i.e holly book of evil Mooslems)

dlofnep wrote: »

Islam is an faith of intolerance. Intolerance and peace are not compatible.

You aren't aware of true Islamic faith, you have learned islamic faith by reading anti islamic thread by reading anit islamic comments... infact you are following their (anti islamic) faith to torch your faith....

dead one

Standman wrote: »

I believe all Muslims are terrorists/violent/intolerant/unpeaceful, I am merely stating that I don't believe one can objectively label Islam as a "religion of peace".

Islamicphobes have been generalizing the claim that "all muslim aren't terrorist, but (nearly) all terrorists are Muslims.” the idea isn't factual.... Here is good link to clear your prejudices

http://www.loonwatch.com/2010/01/not-all-terrorists-are-muslims/ ... The link shows that only 6% of terrorist attacks on U.S. soil from 1980 to 2005 were carried out by Islamic extremists. The remaining 94% were from other groups (42% from Latinos, 24% from extreme left wing groups, 7% from extremist Jews, 5% from communists, and 16% from all other groups).
Europol publishes an annual report entitled EU Terrorism Situation and Trend Report... Here is link
https://www.europol.europa.eu/old-website-pages?page=publications&language=
Here are the official tables provided in the reports…
for 2006

For 2007:

For 2008:


(According to the report, there was 1 “Islamist attack” in the UK in 2008, which was omitted in the table above. It has been included in the bar graph below.)

Just glancing at those tables is enough to know how absurd it is to claim that “all terrorists are Muslims.” That statement is nowhere near the truth. If we compile the data, it comes out to this:


On p.7, the 2009 Europol report concludes: Here is link for page but you won't able to open page due to hypocrisy -- a vulture which away feed on human soul (https://www.europol.europa.eu/publications/EU_Terrorism_Situation_and_Trend_Report_TE-SAT/TESAT2009.pdf)

Islamist terrorism is still perceived as being the biggest threat worldwide, despite the fact that the EU only faced one Islamist terrorist attack in 2008. This bomb attack took place in the UK…Separatist terrorism remains the terrorism area which affects the EU most. This includes Basque separatist terrorism in Spain and France, and Corsican terrorism in France…Past contacts between ETA and the FARC illustrate the fact that also separatist terrorist organizations seek cooperation partners outside the EU on the basis of common interests. In the UK, dissident Irish republican groups, principally the RIRA and the CIRA, and other paramilitary groups may continue to engage in crime and violence.

Due to the bigoted influence and propaganda, there is the mistaken perception that "All muslim are terrorists" It is even a commonly held belief that "Muslim" terrorism poses an existential threat–that the very survival of the Western world is at stake. Of course, the reality is that there are other groups that engage in terrorism on a much larger scale, yet these terrorist incidents are minimized. Acts of terrorism committed by Muslims are purposefully sensationalized and focused upon, culminating in the idea that “(nearly) all terrorists are Muslims.”

Terrorism from "Muslims" extremists is certainly a cause for concern, but it need not be an issue that creates mass hysteria. Nor should it be allowed to be such a critical issue that society is willing to sacrifice ideals or civil rights for fear of it. Neither should the debate be reduced to a status of absolute sissitude. This report has analyzed data from America and Europe (a good portion of the entire Western world), and the threat from Islamic terrorism is much more minimal than commonly assumed; in the U.S., it accounts for 6% of terrorist attacks, and in Europe not even half of a percent.

Doctor DooM

Brown Bomber wrote: »

You imply that I am a Muslim. Interesting...I have given not a single indication that I am. What led you to this conclusion?

What an awful attempt at a misdirect.

Ignore the the point of the post in order to pick up on one word. Bravo.

dlofnep

dead one wrote: »

You aren't aware of true Islamic faith, you have learned islamic faith by reading anti islamic thread by reading anit islamic comments... infact you are following their (anti islamic) faith to torch your faith....

Ah, the no true Scotsman argument. What's 'true' Islamic faith? No - I have not learned Islamic faith by reading an anti-Islamic thread. I have watched the actions and reactions of Islamic nations for years - and compared and contrasted their reactions with other secular nations.

[33:57] Indeed, those who abuse Allah and His Messenger - Allah has cursed them in this world and the Hereafter and prepared for them a humiliating punishment.

Could I go to any Islamic nation tomorrow and spit on a picture of Muhammad and not be punished?

Dades

Capital punishment isn't set down by religious code in the US or China, so comparing them to stoning as required by Islamic law is irrelevant in a question as to whether a religion is one of peace.

Brown Bomber

4Sheets wrote: »

is lets just say I watched far too many youtube videos...

Yeah, it shows

All that Xenophobic Eurabia nonsense has long been debunked. You can relax. The EDL, Stormfront and Robert Spencer are lying to you - there will be no civil war.

Stop wasting your own time on these hatred inciting propoganda films and learn about Islam.
This link should get you started: http://www.juancole.com/

Brown Bomber

Doctor DooM wrote: »

What an awful attempt at a misdirect.

Ignore the the point of the post in order to pick up on one word. Bravo.

It was an important word. It directly implied that I was a Muslim. So why did you think I was?

Turtwig

Brown Bomber wrote: »

It was an important word. It directly implied that I was a Muslim. So why did you think I was?

No it did not. Now can you deal with the relevant point made by the doomsday doctor ?

kylith

koth wrote: »

thats not always the case. in ireland, the animals are slaughtered the same as non-halal meat. the only difference is the halal meat is blessed and kept separate until it is despatched to the customers.

I don't believe that they are. Halal meat must be slaughtered with a single cut, meaning that the animal must be concious when slaughtered, unlike regular abbatoirs where the animal is stunned and unconcious. I'm happy to be corrected though, I think that slaughtering without stunning is inhumane.

4Sheets wrote: »

how is it not?we are debating Islam on an Irish website!!...why are people protesting for it and against it ..is it productive?

We also debate Christianity, Scientology, Mormonism etc. It doesn't mean they're divisive.

4Sheets wrote: »

Now as for you highlighting my quotes and adding words..while you might like such fears are irrational and those that hold are similarly mis-quided or ill-informed then thats is lazy assumption to make..
What drives my fear?? lets just say I watched far too many youtube videos...

I'd say you do watch too many hate filled propoganda videos on youtube. What are these videos doing but seeking to cause further divide and create or hasten the war it's going on about?

Muslims are just like everyone else; barring a few nutters they just want to be left alone and for tomorrow to be pretty much like today.

I believe that instead of wars we will see more and more Muslims embracing the less restrictive Western way of life. The extremists are, in my opinion, experiencing culture shock, and aggression is the only way they can deal with it. As more Muslim children are brought up in the West this culture shock will fade. Unless, that is, more impressionable European idiots are brainwashed into an 'us or them' mentality by ridiculous Youtube videos.

Delirium

kylith wrote: »

I don't believe that they are. Halal meat must be slaughtered with a single cut, meaning that the animal must be concious when slaughtered, unlike regular abbatoirs where the animal is stunned and unconcious. I'm happy to be corrected though, I think that slaughtering without stunning is inhumane.

Apologies kylith, just checked with someone in the know, and you're correct. They kill the animals in the manner you described.

Standman

dead one wrote: »

Islamicphobes have been generalizing the claim that "all muslim aren't terrorist, but (nearly) all terrorists are Muslims.” the idea isn't factual.... Here is good link to clear your prejudices

http://www.loonwatch.com/2010/01/not-all-terrorists-are-muslims/ ... The link shows that only 6% of terrorist attacks on U.S. soil from 1980 to 2005 were carried out by Islamic extremists. The remaining 94% were from other groups (42% from Latinos, 24% from extreme left wing groups, 7% from extremist Jews, 5% from communists, and 16% from all other groups).
Europol publishes an annual report entitled EU Terrorism Situation and Trend Report... Here is link
https://www.europol.europa.eu/old-website-pages?page=publications&language=
Here are the official tables provided in the reports…
for 2006

For 2007:

For 2008:


(According to the report, there was 1 “Islamist attack” in the UK in 2008, which was omitted in the table above. It has been included in the bar graph below.)

Just glancing at those tables is enough to know how absurd it is to claim that “all terrorists are Muslims.” That statement is nowhere near the truth. If we compile the data, it comes out to this:


On p.7, the 2009 Europol report concludes: Here is link for page but you won't able to open page due to hypocrisy -- a vulture which away feed on human soul (https://www.europol.europa.eu/publications/EU_Terrorism_Situation_and_Trend_Report_TE-SAT/TESAT2009.pdf)

Due to the bigoted influence and propaganda, there is the mistaken perception that "All muslim are terrorists" It is even a commonly held belief that "Muslim" terrorism poses an existential threat–that the very survival of the Western world is at stake. Of course, the reality is that there are other groups that engage in terrorism on a much larger scale, yet these terrorist incidents are minimized. Acts of terrorism committed by Muslims are purposefully sensationalized and focused upon, culminating in the idea that “(nearly) all terrorists are Muslims.”

Terrorism from "Muslims" extremists is certainly a cause for concern, but it need not be an issue that creates mass hysteria. Nor should it be allowed to be such a critical issue that society is willing to sacrifice ideals or civil rights for fear of it. Neither should the debate be reduced to a status of absolute sissitude. This report has analyzed data from America and Europe (a good portion of the entire Western world), and the threat from Islamic terrorism is much more minimal than commonly assumed; in the U.S., it accounts for 6% of terrorist attacks, and in Europe not even half of a percent.

Now when you read what I actually said:

I am not in any way stating that I believe all Muslims are terrorists/violent/intolerant/unpeaceful, I am merely stating that I don't believe one can objectively label Islam as a "religion of peace".

as opposed to what you wish I would have said:

dead one wrote: »

"all muslim aren't terrorist, but (nearly) all terrorists are Muslims.

then you see how your whole post is completely irrelevant to my original one.

zulukev

peaceful my arse try asking some of the hundreds of women who are publicly flogged in the streets in Islamic countries around the world for nothing more than talking to a man in the street or in some cases stoned to death. religon of peace i ask you

Dades

zulukev, you really ought to provide references to backup what you suggest is the case (and the numbers involved). That's a requirement for credibility on both sides.

zulukev

dades- i worked in the middle east and north Africa for some years and have witnessed some things which i couldnt print, but if you have a soft spot for these type of scumbags who use their religion to cover their brutality thats up to you. I have a soft spot for them too " THE MIDDLE OF THE EVERGLADES"

Turtwig

zulukev wrote: »

dades- i worked in the middle east and north Africa for some years and have witnessed some things which i couldnt print, but if you have a soft spot for these type of scumbags who use their religion to cover their brutality thats up to you. I have a soft spot for them too " THE MIDDLE OF THE EVERGLADES"

So that would be 'no' then.

Dades

zulukev wrote: »

... but if you have a soft spot for these type of scumbags who use their religion to cover their brutality thats up to you.

People who I do have a soft spot for:

1. Posters on either side of a debate who don't just make blanket statements without references to back them up.
2. Rachel Weisz

People who I don't have a soft spot for:

1. Muslims.
2. You, right now.

What you need to understand is that if we are to require evidence of claims from one side of a debate (e.g. "There is a God!") then we have to require the same from all sides. Otherwise we fall short of the standards we expect from others.

4Sheets

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Yeah, it shows

All that Xenophobic Eurabia nonsense has long been debunked. You can relax. The EDL, Stormfront and Robert Spencer are lying to you - there will be no civil war.

When was it debunked as nonsense..must have missed that debunking..I know it will not happen because crap and all as EU goverment is people are awakening..Is it an accident that Marie LePen is a contender for president of France??....nope people are feed with how some immigrants treat the countries that host them..I expect Britain to follow suit.
Time people had respect for their own race and stop being afraid of being called narrow minded or racist for having a view that offends minorities.
Thanks for the link but If I wanted to learn about Islam I would do so myself..fact is Im not likely to convert anytime soon.

Dades

Meanwhile, back on the "Islam is a religion of peace" thread...

robindch

4Sheets wrote: »

Time people had respect for their own race and stop being afraid of being called narrow minded or racist for having a view that offends minorities.

Any more of that racist drivel and you're out of here.