Excommunication from the Catholic Church

MetalDog

Right, was on Countmeout.ie recently, and the RCC has suspended the defection process due to Canon Law bulls hit.

How then do you go about getting excommunicated from the RCC as has anyone done it?

I don't want to get a criminal record for, say, burning down a church (mind you its awfully tempting sometimes, almost every time you open a newpaper and see more abuse revelations), and please no smart answers of the "Kicking Bishop Brennan up the arse" variety.

Thanks

Sarky

I suspect assaulting a bishop remains the least illegal method, alas.

seamus

Desecrate the eucharist. Go to a local mass, take a host when offered, bring it home and video yourself burning it.

Then send the video to your bishop.

Worth noting that excommunication doesn't actually "kick you out" of the Catholic Church, simply prevents you from being officially permitted to get the eucharist and the sacraments. They will still count you as Catholic, just banned from doing Catholic-y things.

magicbastarder

ordain a woman as a priest. seems to be the easiest way for priests to be excommunicated.

conorod

If you are an apostate from the faith then you are already excommunicated, Latae sententiae (automatically) - same way as you would be by any of the other methods listed above. Got confirmation of this from my diocese a few months ago. So just not believing in God will do it.

Penn

conorod wrote: »

If you are an apostate from the faith then you are already excommunicated, Latae sententiae (automatically) - same way as you would be by any of the other methods listed above. Got confirmation of this from my diocese a few months ago. So just not believing in God will do it.

Not any more. Even not believing in God doesn't mean that, in their records, you don't believe in God.

The Catholic Church continues to block efforts by those who wish to formally renounce their membership of the faith. The Countmeout.ie organisation recently assisted 16 people in their effort to have an "Act of Apostasy" recognised as a formal declaration of their wish to leave the church. However, the Archdiocese of Dublin has decided it cannot accept these declarations meaning those who wish to leave the church continue to be denied this option.

The website Countmeout.ie made headlines in 2009 when it offered a simple 3-Step process for this wishing to formally leave the Catholic Church. The process involved sending a "Declaration of Defection" to one's local diocese, after which an annotation was made to the baptismal register. In 2010, however, the church made changes to Canon Law which removed the option to formally defect. Count Me Out has been exploring alternative methods of formally renouncing one's membership since the changes to Canon Law and recently trialled a new declaration known as an "Act of Apostasy".

The Act of Apostasy allows someone to declare themselves an apostate to the faith, i.e. one who rejects Christian teachings. Canon Law stipulates that an apostate to the faith automatically incurs a latae senteniae excommunication. In response to the 16 Acts of Apostasy which were sent to the Archdiocese of Dublin in June 2011, a spokesperson stated that they would not be accepted. Furthermore, it was stated that excommunication does not mean that somebody is no longer a member of the church.

Count Me Out has concerns about the latest developments. It appears that there is currently no possibility of formally ceasing one's membership of the Catholic Church. This has implications for one's freedom of religion and association. Countmeout.ie has experienced a ten-fold increase in traffic to the site in the aftermath of the Cloyne Report. This demonstrates the desire of many lapsed Catholics to leave the church and we are now calling on the church to make this a possibility.

Count Me Out, 20/07/2011

mikhail

Excommunication is more like shunning than kicking you out, so it doesn't really serve the purpose you're looking for. Don't worry about formal defection: simply live your life without them.

Dades

mikhail wrote: »

Don't worry about formal defection: simply live your life without them.

Next question: how to live your life without the catholic church interfering? :pac:

mikhail

Dades wrote: »

Next question: how to live your life without the catholic church interfering? :pac:

Move to a country where they're a minority religion.

What's next, Dades, world peace?

Dades

First things first - I have to sort out my Fantasy Football team before tomorrow! :pac:

MetalDog

Wow, the RCC are really going for the Hotel California scenario: "You can checkout any time you like/But you can never leave!"
It would be nice to formally give them the finger, mind you.

Mistress 69

Take a walk on the wild side.. get formally baptized as a prod, take the cert down to your local padre... bet that would do it! Then all you have to worry about is de proddying yourself. You know kick the can down the road a bit!

MetalDog

Mistress 69 wrote: »

Take a walk on the wild side.. get formally baptized as a prod, take the cert down to your local padre... bet that would do it! Then all you have to worry about is de proddying yourself. You know kick the can down the road a bit!

hmmm . . . interesting, and somehow I'd say de-prodding yourself is easier, although open to correction on that from any ex-CoI people on here.

gman2k

I heard Paolo Tuillio on the radio recently and he said he was excommed twice - once for buying a copy of a non authorised bible, and secondly for going to Trinity without his bishops permission!

goose2005

In Roman Catholic canon law, excommunication is a censure and thus a "medicinal penalty" intended to invite the person to change behaviour or attitude, to repent and return to full communion. It is not an "expiatory penalty", designed to make satisfaction for the wrong done, still less a merely "vindictive penalty", designed solely to punish.

Excommunicated Catholics are still Catholics and remain bound by obligations such as attending Mass, even though they are barred from receiving the Eucharist and from taking an active part in the liturgy (reading, bringing the offerings, etc.). However, their communion with the Church is considered gravely impaired. In spite of that, they are urged to retain a relationship with the Church, as the goal is to encourage them to repent and return to active participation in its life.

Excommunicated persons are barred from participating in the liturgy in a ministerial capacity (for instance, as a reader if a lay person, or as a deacon or priest if a clergyman) and from receiving the Eucharist or the other Sacraments, but are not barred from attending these (for instance, an excommunicated person may not receive the Eucharist, but is not barred from attending Mass). They are also forbidden to exercise any ecclesiastical office or the like. If the excommunication has been imposed or declared, stricter effects follow, such as the obligation on others to prevent the excommunicated person from acting in a ministerial capacity in the liturgy or, if this proves impossible, to suspend the liturgical service, and the invalidity of acts of ecclesiastical governance by the excommunicated person.

So "excommunication" is not expulsion, it means being put on probation.

Orion

goose2005 wrote: »

So "excommunication" is not expulsion, it means being put on probation.

It means you've been a naughty, naughty boy. /lifeofbrian

The problem is not the rcc counting you as a member - it's the people who don't practice ticking the rcc box in the census because "ah sure that's what I was brought up as" or "mammy said I had to". AKA Sheep.

MetalDog

Sorry to drag this one up from the depths, but I was again in touch with a diocesan secretary with regard to excommunication.
He wrote back as follows:

Dear Dog,

Thank you for your email.

There is no formal process for leaving the Catholic Church. One simply stops attending religious services. However, it would be advisable for you to speak to your family and friends about your decision as your decision excludes you from officially participating in the following; Baptisms, Confirmations, Religious weddings and funeral rights. Also your completion of future census forms would need to reflect your religious status.

Yours faithfully,
Fr [Redacted]
Diocesan Secretary

I replied:

Dear Fr [Redacted],

Thank you for your reply.
Can I please have a written acknowledgement of my Apostasy and its resulting excommunication for my own personal records. My home address is at the bottom of my previous email.

Thank you,

So, anyone ever got a written acknowledgement of apostasy? I know damn well its not the same as a Defection because the bastards moved the goalposts on that one, but still.

Brian Shanahan

MetalDog wrote: »

Right, was on Countmeout.ie recently, and the RCC has suspended the defection process due to Canon Law bulls hit.

How then do you go about getting excommunicated from the RCC as has anyone done it?

I don't want to get a criminal record for, say, burning down a church (mind you its awfully tempting sometimes, almost every time you open a newpaper and see more abuse revelations), and please no smart answers of the "Kicking Bishop Brennan up the arse" variety.

Thanks

Go into a church, and every time the priest/bishop gets up to say something disruprt him (I'd love to hear a few "whore of Babylon"'s myself). It shouldn't take that long before someone does something about you.

NS77

You could become involved in the Mafia.. seems to be a pathway to excommunication

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jun/22/pope-francis-excommunicates-mafia

Waitsian

Mistress 69 wrote: »

Take a walk on the wild side.. get formally baptized as a prod, take the cert down to your local padre... bet that would do it! Then all you have to worry about is de proddying yourself. You know kick the can down the road a bit!

As a 12 year old First year, I, and my classmates, were told by a Christian Brother in Newry CBS, that Catholics who joined a Protestant church were called perverts. Not converts, perverts! I kid you not.

Hotblack Desiato

The unbrotherly unchristians certainly were experts in that field, however.

magicbastarder

i still don't get the interest in 'leaving' the church, or being excommunicated. how can I leave something I am not a member of?

insisting on following their internal processes to achieve a null event only serves to grant legitimacy to those very processes, and in that sense, it's a self-defeating goal.

Draco

magicbastarder wrote: »

how can I leave something I am not a member of?

If you were baptised you are a member, just non-practising one.

Cabaal

magicbastarder wrote: »

i still don't get the interest in 'leaving' the church, or being excommunicated. how can I leave something I am not a member of?

If a person was baptised then they are considered a member of the RCC, doesn't matter if they go to mass or not.

Some people are unhappy about this membership and rightly so,

Previously people were able to use the loophole advertised by countmeout.ie, but since then the Vatican have closed this loophole in canon law....effectively blocking people from closing their membership.

membership is power to the church so anything to bring down those numbers is a good thing,

magicbastarder

Draco wrote: »

If you were baptised you are a member, just non-practising one.

possibly - but if so, by their rules. I couldn't give a flying **** about their rules, if I don't consider myself a member, it matters not what they think.

magicbastarder

Cabaal wrote: »

membership is power to the church so anything to bring down those numbers is a good thing,

census returns are power to the church. this is the real issue, not baptismal rolls.

Cabaal

magicbastarder wrote: »

census returns are power to the church. this is the real issue, not baptismal rolls.

true,
but bottom line is if people want to leave the rcc after being forced into it as a child then its an important issue for them.

kylith

magicbastarder wrote: »

possibly - but if so, by their rules. I couldn't give a flying **** about their rules, if I don't consider myself a member, it matters not what they think.

So, if what the church thinks doesn't bother you, why does what people who want to defect from it think bother you?

If I want to have a letter from the scouts saying that I'm not a member then what harm is it to you? What harm does someone wanting a letter from a bishop saying they're not considered a member of the RCC do to you?

magicbastarder

it's no real harm to me, but that doesn't mean I don't have an opinion on it; and as I mentioned, the whole debate is a distraction.

Cabaal

magicbastarder wrote: »

it's no real harm to me, but that doesn't mean I don't have an opinion on it; and as I mentioned, the whole debate is a distraction.

But thing is if people are interesting in trying to get the rcc to officially recognize that they've left the church then its a pretty good bet to say that they've not ticked catholic on the census.

So what harm does it do?

shruikan2553

If it didn't matter and was no big deal then why won't they let people leave?