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Is religion a farce?

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 426 ✭✭ddef


    It gives billions of people hope and meaning every day of their lives.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,881 ✭✭✭TimeToShine


    gives older people comfort i suppose, it's reassuring to think that there's something to look forward at the end of it all but religion won't have much if any impact on the next generation.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 223 ✭✭davef1000


    ibtl


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,758 ✭✭✭Stercus Accidit


    ddef wrote: »
    It gives billions of people hope and meaning every day of their lives.

    False hope and meaning solving none of their real problems.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,406 ✭✭✭Pompey Magnus


    False hope and meaning solving none of their real problems.

    Don't forget it also provides many of those billions with fear and dread of eternal punishment and torture after their death for either themselves or those that they love.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 426 ✭✭ddef


    gives older people comfort i suppose, it's reassuring to think that there's something to look forward at the end of it all but religion won't have much if any impact on the next generation.

    christianity has been going for over 2000 years, and more for much longer. hard to believe it will disappear after all the aul ones kick the bucket.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,514 ✭✭✭PseudoFamous


    Morality is the main argument for religion these days. I know atheists rararant about morality being found in atheism, but I'm afraid that there is no reason for an atheist to act morally. People who claim to be religious but do highly immoral things are not religious, imo.
    Atheists often go on about how religion is dogmatic and only fools follow it, but I find some of the greatest fools are atheists who are just doing it to be cool, and many atheists thousands of times more persecuting and dogmatic than any religious people.

    I do not claim to be religious, but I refuse to call myself an atheist under the grounds that I don't want to be associated with bigoted, dogmatic, thoughtless arseholes without any regard for a persons beliefs. If anything should be widespread in this day and age, it should be humanism, not atheism. Personally, I think that raw atheism is the worst thing for society, and in many ways a religion, with its own idols, prophets, texts, and a set of beliefs.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,514 ✭✭✭PseudoFamous



    The only thing I'd disagree with there is the morality bit, It's very possible to have morals without being religious.
    While its possible, there's nothing to promote morality under atheism, no carrot on a string for being well behaved.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 258 ✭✭Tiny Explosions


    Morality is the main argument for religion these days. I know atheists rararant about morality being found in atheism, but I'm afraid that there is no reason for an atheist to act morally. People who claim to be religious but do highly immoral things are not religious, imo.
    Atheists often go on about how religion is dogmatic and only fools follow it, but I find some of the greatest fools are atheists who are just doing it to be cool, and many atheists thousands of times more persecuting and dogmatic than any religious people.

    I do not claim to be religious, but I refuse to call myself an atheist under the grounds that I don't want to be associated with bigoted, dogmatic, thoughtless arseholes without any regard for a persons beliefs. If anything should be widespread in this day and age, it should be humanism, not atheism. Personally, I think that raw atheism is the worst thing for society, and in many ways a religion, with its own idols, prophets, texts, and a set of beliefs.


    Where you listening to Penn Jillette on the radio earlier??:pac::pac::pac:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,295 ✭✭✭✭Duggy747


    Morality is the main argument for religion these days. I know atheists rararant about morality being found in atheism, but I'm afraid that there is no reason for an atheist to act morally.

    If you're a prick to other's then your parents didn't raise you good enough or you're just a natural born dickhead.

    I don't believe for one second a person's personal belief is the basis of their morals.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,443 ✭✭✭Bipolar Joe


    While its possible, there's nothing to promote morality under atheism, no carrot on a string for being well behaved.

    Why do you need incentive to not be a wanker?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,406 ✭✭✭Pompey Magnus


    but I'm afraid that there is no reason for an atheist to act morally.

    Pure nonsense.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,224 ✭✭✭✭Marty McFly


    While its possible, there's nothing to promote morality under atheism, no carrot on a string for being well behaved.

    Yeh but should there be a need for a carrot on a string to be well behaved? Morals and compassion for me should be a given regardless of what your religous beliefs are.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 789 ✭✭✭The Internet Explorer


    A farce indeed. A waste of precious life. Wake up my fellow apes. We are animals. Amazing animals that can do nearly anything. Stop wasting your precious life. Live now. You only live for up to 80/90 years. Make the most of it NOW. You are alive NOW.

    And how dare a mothaf*cka suggest that morality is exclusive to the religious.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,514 ✭✭✭PseudoFamous


    Where you listening to Penn Jillette on the radio earlier??:pac::pac::pac:
    Nope, my opinions on topics like these are formed from thinking and analysing my own experiences, not from what someone on a podium tells me my opinion is, and I wish more people would sit down and evaluate their own from time to time.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,443 ✭✭✭Bipolar Joe


    Ain't this fooker a snowflake?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 426 ✭✭ddef


    Morality is the main argument for religion these days. I know atheists rararant about morality being found in atheism, but I'm afraid that there is no reason for an atheist to act morally. People who claim to be religious but do highly immoral things are not religious, imo.
    Atheists often go on about how religion is dogmatic and only fools follow it, but I find some of the greatest fools are atheists who are just doing it to be cool, and many atheists thousands of times more persecuting and dogmatic than any religious people.

    I do not claim to be religious, but I refuse to call myself an atheist under the grounds that I don't want to be associated with bigoted, dogmatic, thoughtless arseholes without any regard for a persons beliefs. If anything should be widespread in this day and age, it should be humanism, not atheism. Personally, I think that raw atheism is the worst thing for society, and in many ways a religion, with its own idols, prophets, texts, and a set of beliefs.

    well said.
    when it comes to religion, I ironically find it is atheists who force their beliefs (or lack of) much more so than the churches.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,406 ✭✭✭Pompey Magnus


    many atheists thousands of times more persecuting and dogmatic than any religious people.

    Even worse nonsense. Do a bit of reading on persecutions. Mocking someone's belief in a sky wizard is pretty much the mildest form of persecution humanly possible compared to what has been committed by believers.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 258 ✭✭Tiny Explosions


    Nope, my opinions on topics like these are formed from thinking and analysing my own experiences, not from what someone on a podium tells me my opinion is, and I wish more people would sit down and evaluate their own from time to time.


    well what you wrote was almost word for word what he said about 4 hours ago on the radio. Maybe great minds think alike. and all that...:)


  • Posts: 31,118 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    False hope and meaning solving none of their real problems.

    True, but at least it gives them hope, rather than complete hopelessness.

    I don't believe in religion personally (and never will), but these days I expect more people to turn to religion as the economic situation continues worsen.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,132 ✭✭✭Killer Pigeon


    Morality is the main argument for religion these days. I know atheists rararant about morality being found in atheism, but I'm afraid that there is no reason for an atheist to act morally. People who claim to be religious but do highly immoral things are not religious, imo.
    Atheists often go on about how religion is dogmatic and only fools follow it, but I find some of the greatest fools are atheists who are just doing it to be cool, and many atheists thousands of times more persecuting and dogmatic than any religious people.

    I do not claim to be religious, but I refuse to call myself an atheist under the grounds that I don't want to be associated with bigoted, dogmatic, thoughtless arseholes without any regard for a persons beliefs. If anything should be widespread in this day and age, it should be humanism, not atheism. Personally, I think that raw atheism is the worst thing for society, and in many ways a religion, with its own idols, prophets, texts, and a set of beliefs.

    Welcome to the agnostic-atheist club.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,443 ✭✭✭Bipolar Joe


    Religious person:

    "Gays are evil and will go to Hell! Abortion is evil, people who did it will go to Hell! People who aren't my religion are evil and will go to Hell!"

    Non-religious person:

    "Why are you such a dick?"

    Religious person:

    "STOP PERSECUTING ME FOR MY BELIEFS!"


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,295 ✭✭✭✭Duggy747


    While its possible, there's nothing to promote morality under atheism, no carrot on a string for being well behaved.

    So people need the delight of spiritual awards for acting like a civilised human being?

    SKY NEWS: London Rioters revealed to be atheists.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 789 ✭✭✭The Internet Explorer


    well what you wrote was almost word for word what he said about 4 hours ago on the radio. Maybe great minds think alike. and all that...:)


    More like small minds think alike.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 258 ✭✭Tiny Explosions


    More like small minds think alike.


    Is that even a saying?:pac:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 789 ✭✭✭The Internet Explorer


    Is that even a saying?:pac:

    No.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 426 ✭✭ddef


    I think a lock would do this thread a world of good.
    its been done to death already and people just start bickering once all the points of their arguments are used up.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,514 ✭✭✭PseudoFamous


    Funnily, the ones who are arguing that atheism can be moral are doing so in an incredibly immoral and undignified way.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,406 ✭✭✭Pompey Magnus


    True, but at least it gives them hope, rather than complete hopelessness.

    I don't believe in religion personally (and never will), but these days I expect more to turn to religion as the economic situation continues worsen.

    An analogy I once heard about this:

    Imagine I put an ad in the local paper during this recession saying that I wish to help those struggling looking for work and that I had many excellent job contacts across the country and so I asked unemployed people to come visit me so I could get an idea of their skills, after they give me a small payment I would then promise to forward their CV to my my relevant contacts. Once they leave I proceed to bin their CV as I have no such contacts whatsoever.

    They go home full of hope rather than the hopelessness they were in before they read my ad. Is what I did good just because I gave them hope? Of course it's not, it is the act of a complete dickhead. Why is religion any different?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    Don't know. Will find out when i die..


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 789 ✭✭✭The Internet Explorer


    Is that even a saying?:pac:

    I wasn't referring to you by the way. I apologise if that's what you thought.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,224 ✭✭✭✭Marty McFly


    ddef wrote: »
    I think a lock would do this thread a world of good.
    its been done to death already and people just start bickering once all the points of their arguments are used up.

    Sorry if it has been but it was a genuine question.
    Funnily, the ones who are arguing that atheism can be moral are doing so in an incredibly immoral and undignified way.

    How do you figure that? To be honest i wouldnt count myself as an atheist or religious i dont class myself that way i have my own beliefs and that is regardless of what bracket im in. But can you give a genuine reason for believing in religion when its proven in history the damage its done to humanity and also without any proven facts of Jesus, Heaven, Allah exsisting?

    Or do you just believe on pure faith hope alone that there must be something better than this life out there?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,377 ✭✭✭zenno


    ddef wrote: »
    It gives billions of people hope and meaning every day of their lives.

    you mean false hope ?. please not the invisible man thread again. :rolleyes:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 149 ✭✭Artur Foden


    I don't believe in a god, or many of them. Nor am I particularly spiritual. But atheism is a farce as well. Just irritates me that people would make it their personal business to not accept that others have beliefs other to their own.

    Real atheists: don't believe in god
    Modern atheists: 'hey look, man, Im an atheist!!! religion totally suxs'

    edit: and those who are religious, I for one do not think you are somehow stupid for doing so. that is all


  • Posts: 31,118 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    An analogy I once heard about this:

    Imagine I put an ad in the local paper during this recession saying that I wish to help those struggling looking for work and that I had many excellent job contacts across the country and so I asked unemployed people to come visit me so I could get an idea of their skills, after they give me a small payment I would then promise to forward their CV to my my relevant contacts. Once they leave I proceed to bin their CV as I have no such contacts whatsoever.

    They go home full of hope rather than the hopelessness they were in before they read my ad. Is what I did good just because I gave them hope? Of course it's not, it is the act of a complete dickhead. Why is religion any different?

    Sums it up quite well.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,406 ✭✭✭Pompey Magnus


    I don't believe in a god, or many of them. Nor am I particularly spiritual. But atheism is a farce as well. Just irritates me that people would make it their personal business to not accept that others have beliefs other to their own.

    Real atheists: don't believe in god
    Modern atheists: 'hey look, man, Im an atheist!!! religion totally suxs'

    edit: and those who are religious, I for one do not think you are somehow stupid for doing so. that is all

    The modern atheism you describe only exists because it is a reaction to the public nature of belief. If religious people kept their beliefs to themselves and held them privately then there would be no such thing as that modern atheism.

    If religious people get irritated by having their ridiculous beliefs mocked then there is an extremely easy way to solve that problem. STOP PUBLICISING THEM.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,030 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    Morality is the main argument for religion these days.

    No. No it's not. Show me the argument.
    I know atheists rararant about morality being found in atheism, but I'm afraid that there is no reason for an atheist to act morally
    Absolute rubbish.
    People who claim to be religious but do highly immoral things are not religious, imo.

    How very conveinient.
    Atheists often go on about how religion is dogmatic
    Religion is more dogmatic than it's not so that would be more true than false.
    and only fools follow it,
    I very much doubt people who don't believe in cultural superstitions would be so stupid to hold those views.
    but I find some of the greatest fools are atheists who are just doing it to be cool,
    What the hell is 'cool' about rejecting religion?
    and many atheists thousands of times more persecuting and dogmatic than any religious people.
    More rubbish.
    I refuse to call myself an atheist under the grounds that I don't want to be associated with bigoted, dogmatic, thoughtless arseholes without any regard for a persons beliefs.
    This is just bitterness and prejudice. I'm not against anyones personal beliefs as long as they stay personal and don't affect me. When those beliefs start to spill over into the wider population in an oppressive way is what gets people riled up.
    If anything should be widespread in this day and age, it should be humanism, not atheism.
    Bleh.

    Personally, I think that raw atheism
    Raw atheism? What's that then? :confused:
    is the worst thing for society,
    Why?
    and in many ways a religion,
    More nonsense.
    with its own idols,
    Which ones would they be then?
    prophets,
    Like who?
    texts,
    Like what?
    and a set of beliefs.
    and those would be?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,224 ✭✭✭✭Marty McFly


    I don't believe in a god, or many of them. Nor am I particularly spiritual. But atheism is a farce as well. Just irritates me that people would make it their personal business to not accept that others have beliefs other to their own.

    Real atheists: don't believe in god
    Modern atheists: 'hey look, man, Im an atheist!!! religion totally suxs'

    edit: and those who are religious, I for one do not think you are somehow stupid for doing so. that is all

    That has to be the most sitting on the fence post ive ever read.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,030 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    gives older people comfort i suppose, it's reassuring to think that there's something to look forward at the end of it all

    This is an interesting point.

    My Mother is a fairly devout Catholic and I think she gets a lot of comfort from her beliefs.

    However, she doesn't say this, but I know she is really hurt by all the crap that has come out about how the institution thought that protecting itself was more important than protecting children.

    I can tell that she feels betrayed and I'm angry on her behalf because she was betrayed, her trust was betrayed.

    I used to argue with my parents as a younger person about religion and the church and all that.

    Now? I just leave them alone because I know they feel bad enough as it is.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 273 ✭✭Tehachapi


    Morality is the main argument for religion these days. I know atheists rararant about morality being found in atheism, but I'm afraid that there is no reason for an atheist to act morally. People who claim to be religious but do highly immoral things are not religious, imo.
    Atheists often go on about how religion is dogmatic and only fools follow it, but I find some of the greatest fools are atheists who are just doing it to be cool, and many atheists thousands of times more persecuting and dogmatic than any religious people.

    I do not claim to be religious, but I refuse to call myself an atheist under the grounds that I don't want to be associated with bigoted, dogmatic, thoughtless arseholes without any regard for a persons beliefs. If anything should be widespread in this day and age, it should be humanism, not atheism. Personally, I think that raw atheism is the worst thing for society, and in many ways a religion, with its own idols, prophets, texts, and a set of beliefs.


    ROFL!

    Do you know what atheism is? Do you know what agnosticism is? Do you realise there are some people who think so logically that they have no CHOICE but to be atheist/agnostic? It's not some new "fad" like being emo or wearing red adidas tracksuit tops.

    Your post is highly insulting to atheists and I suggest you research what the word actually means, saying phrases like "raw atheism" (as opposed to what - "mild atheism"?) just shows your levels of ignorance on the subject.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,573 ✭✭✭pragmatic1


    Its a complete load of shyte. But whats more annoying than anything is the people sitting on the fence trying to claim some moral high ground between the two sides.

    Big pat on the back lads. Well done.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 149 ✭✭Artur Foden


    The modern atheism you describe only exists because it is a reaction to the public nature of belief. If religious people kept their beliefs to themselves and held them privately then there would be no such thing as that modern atheism.

    If religious people get irritated by having their ridiculous beliefs mocked then there is an extremely easy way to solve that problem. STOP PUBLICISING THEM.

    Yeh I know, but often those who get mocked are just every day people who don't advertise their religion. Most religious people keep their religions to themselves. Thats just my experience though :)

    edit: Oh, and maybe some athiests should also keep their beliefs to themselves and stop publicising them? Ok thats hypocritical of me as in my original message I let everyone know.. anyway, I think its worth thinking about


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 521 ✭✭✭Voodoo_rasher




  • Posts: 3,505 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    No, religion is not a farce. Neither is atheism. Neither is agnosticism. The validity of religion cannot be proved or disproved. The same goes for atheism/agnosticism. So let's all leave each other alone.

    However I must say I have very little respect for people who act superior to others due to their beliefs, and this goes for any belief. I can't understand how someone could feel affected by what someone else believes to the point of needing to call their beliefs a farce and try to get them to question their religion/lack of (I'm not directing that at the OP).

    As for religious wars, etc., the OP got it right here:
    have used religion to excuse extreme acts of violence against humanity
    It's used as an excuse for violence which would have erupted in some other way. Look at Palestine/Israel. The problem is often labelled as between religions, but the violence/conflict would happen no matter what two religions the two communities are. Same for Hitler. You think he wouldn't have killed anyone if Judaism didn't exist?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    OP: If people didn't use violence they would use other factors such as ethnicity. Religion isn't the cause of such conflicts in most cases but is rather used as an excuse to go to war.

    People screwing with belief to pursue their own selfish aims is a farce.

    Personally I'm a Christian, so I believe and trust in the Gospel of Christ. Others might call that a farce but ultimately I find it powerfully convincing.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,905 ✭✭✭✭Handsome Bob


    Religion again in AH you say? Only one possible response:

    http://redux.com/stream/item/767312/Epic-Facepalm-Mosaic


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 334 ✭✭B_Fanatic


    well what you wrote was almost word for word what he said about 4 hours ago on the radio. Maybe great minds think alike. and all that...:)

    ... fools seldom differ. If religous people weren't so adamant and childish regarding their beliefs and were actually open to change (I.e. picking up a god damn book.... Of your OWN accord. No one is forcing you) you might realise why religion is poison to the human race. Obviously there are some who would have considered athiesm and other alternatives but were just not drawn in, I don't mean to generalise religion in its entirety.

    After briefly continuing to look over the comments the level of ignorance and unsourced, just plain wrong statements is astounding.
    Funnily, the ones who are arguing that atheism can be moral are doing so in an incredibly immoral and undignified way.

    Because arguing over the internet is immoral? Get over yourself, that's a horrible point to make.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 904 ✭✭✭MetalDog


    Religion is the greatest confidence trick of all time, George Carlin says it better than I ever will:



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,933 ✭✭✭holystungun9


    ddef wrote: »
    It gives billions of people hope and meaning every day of their lives.

    Fair play to them, but it doesn't answer the OP's question.


    p.s. the answer is yes, it's a load of crap. But hey, that's people for ya!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,809 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    ddef wrote: »
    It gives billions of people hope and meaning every day of their lives.

    Ah, good oul hope.- the feeling you're doing something when in fact you're actually doing nothing.


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