City Channel to suspend operations/EPG

Infoanon

Reports early about City Channel are now being corrected by various news outlets - ignore thread

9959

That's a pity.

patrickmooney

But it a valid question, is City worth that EPG slot considering it's current output? Would RTE1+1 or even UTV+1 be better?

dunworth1

true its a waste of space

smurf22

patrickmooney wrote: »

But it a valid question, is City worth that EPG slot considering it's current output? Would RTE1+1 or even UTV+1 be better?

RTE 2 HD, Thats what id much prefer to see in that slot

Resi12

Anything would be better. Even a special E4 that shows Friends/Scrubs for 12 hours each every day.

(This is a joke UPC)

icdg

For those still with NTL STBs, IIRC they also get the "window" in the EPG that was intended for Front Row previews originally? That must be worth something.

Elmo

9959 wrote: »

That's a pity.

I agree. the jobs that are lost and the experience that the channel gives people.

City Channel needed/needs a revamp. It is not a 24 hour TV station, its programming output comes to maybe 2hours in house, which is fine only for the other 22 hours of bad radio phone in shows, txt-girls-now, product placement and teleshopping.

I think there is a market for Local TV but it must surrounded by imports even if it is just the type of stripped scheduling that 3e provide.

I don't understand why David Harvey didn't drop Adrian Kennedy in favour of his 4FM show during the day.

Solair

It's very difficult for a TV channel to break into what is a very crowded market.
City Channel / Channel South seems to have had a tough time finding a niche for itself and it's not as widely available as it ought to be.

There have been other attempts at local television in Ireland, for example, Cork Multichannel carried the weirdly titled Show Channel from the mid 1980s onwards. As far as I am aware, this was the first serious attempt at local TV in Ireland. Chorus killed it turning it into Chorus Sports. But, it launched careers like Tevor Welsh TV3, Marty Morrissey (RTE) and quite a few others too and, despite its very limited budgets, it did actually produce some quite watchable TV.

It would be a shame if City Channel / Channel South disappears.

I sort of wonder why there is Channel South + CCTV and City Channel + DCTV. Is there really enough of a market for two local channels?
Could the community and commercial aspects of those organisations not be combined into a single local channel for each area?

I agree, though that a local channel absolutely needs to have something to attract an audience and pay the bills, so perhaps access to some movie / import content to pad out the schedule is important.

Local radio only works because it blasts out commercial chart music all day. If it just did a 24/7 news, current affairs and local interest schedule, there wouldn't be much local radio.

Unless it's publicly funded, I don't see how local TV would be any different.

Antenna

Solair wrote: »

It would be a shame if City Channel / Channel South disappears.

Channel South has already disappeared - ages ago - replaced with Dublin City Channel on 107 in its area.

re. CCTV
Its worth mentioning that CCTV (COrk Community TV) has only ever been available on cable, never MMDS-which is the only UPC service available in much of the city, not to mind the county.
It would make sense if it were available on MMDS on a part-time basis on 107 instead of City channel (or some other low-viewership channel) - for viewers down there
http://www.corkcommunitytv.ie/schedule.html
part-time availability on MMDS (sharing with City or some other channel) would not be that much of an issue - no live shows, and anything worthwhile is repeated over and over again

Elmo

Solair wrote: »

Local radio only works because it blasts out commercial chart music all day. If it just did a 24/7 news, current affairs and local interest schedule, there wouldn't be much local radio.

Unless it's publicly funded, I don't see how local TV would be any different.

Perhaps in Dublin but in most of the rest of the country IRL are much more of mixed genre channels then chart hits, they compete directly with a Radio 1 audience IMO.

Local TV could work as you suggested, Local news and Current Affairs surrounded by a solid national schedule and the possiblity of it being available on other networks such as Saorview and Sky.

The UPC Info channel was (still is I assume) broadcast by City Channel.

Solair

Cork's 96fm - wall to wall music other than Prenderville. Their slogan is "Playing the hits you can't get out of your head"
RedFM - wall to wall hits on a tight play list aimed at teens-twenties.
both of those stations use a 1,2,3,4 playlist system and servers to play out.

They compete with 2FM/TodayFM, not Radio 1.

The majority of other stations are at least 80% playlist driven. They certainly don't really have much radio 1 content. They're far closer to 2FM/TodayFM too in most cases with some aspect of more local driven stuff, but it's heavily commercial radio.

Really rural radio/community radio, is perhaps a bit different, but we're talking local TV in major urban areas only really i.e. Cork, Dublin, Limerick, Galway, Waterford. There has been no proposal for local TV in rural areas.

The only station that competes with Radio 1 is Newstalk. The locals, in Dublin/Cork or in the rest of Ireland would not have the resources to put out that kind of programming. Talk is expensive production.

The only thing that really differentiates local radio in Dublin or elsewhere from 2FM or Today FM, is the local news bulletin content and the morning or late night (in the case of FM104/98 and RedFM) phone shows.

Elmo

Solair wrote: »

Cork's 96fm - wall to wall music other than Prenderville. Their slogan is "Playing the hits you can't get out of your head"
RedFM - wall to wall hits on a tight play list aimed at teens-twenties.
both of those stations use a 1,2,3,4 playlist system and servers to play out.

They compete with 2FM/TodayFM, not Radio 1.

The majority of other stations are at least 80% playlist driven. They certainly don't really have much radio 1 content. They're far closer to 2FM/TodayFM too in most cases with some aspect of more local driven stuff, but it's heavily commercial radio.

Really rural radio/community radio, is perhaps a bit different, but we're talking local TV in major urban areas only really i.e. Cork, Dublin, Limerick, Galway, Waterford. There has been no proposal for local TV in rural areas.

The only station that competes with Radio 1 is Newstalk. The locals, in Dublin/Cork or in the rest of Ireland would not have the resources to put out that kind of programming. Talk is expensive production.

The only thing that really differentiates local radio in Dublin or elsewhere from 2FM or Today FM, is the local news bulletin content and the morning or late night (in the case of FM104/98 and RedFM) phone shows.

RedFM is fairly new as are the regional youth services. I don't know about C96 or C106. There are other local markets outside Cork and Dublin eg WLRfm which to me seem to be much more chat, news mixed with some music including country and traditional.

I did say perhaps in Dublin but not in other areas.

I don't expect local TV to produce as much TV hours as local radio produces. 2 clear local hours per day would be enough and may possibly be too much, on little money.

Solair

The JNLR usually does
"Locals"
"Cork Locals"
"Dublin Locals"
because those two markets are more complex and much larger than the others.

For example:
http://www.bci.ie/documents/jnlr_july08_jun09.pdf

However, I would still stick to my point - I think that CityChannel it's quite comparable to the likes of 98fm or 96fm. It's only going to be commercially viable if it's providing something that there's a commercial market for.

If you're a radio station, that's commercial hit music .. you can't play wall to wall local bands all day if you want an income.

In a way, I think the UK approach to regional TV works best i.e. opt outs from a major national station as you get the central funding and big names as well as the local stuff e.g. like UTV.

Elmo

Solair wrote: »

However, I would still stick to my point - I think that CityChannel it's quite comparable to the likes of 98fm or 96fm. It's only going to be commercially viable if it's providing something that there's a commercial market for.

If you're a radio station, that's commercial hit music .. you can't play wall to wall local bands all day if you want an income.

In a way, I think the UK approach to regional TV works best i.e. opt outs from a major national station as you get the central funding and big names as well as the local stuff e.g. like UTV.

I completely agree with you.

However I was not talking about Dublin or Cork local radio. My only experience of local radio is WLRfm and too me it is aimed at an older audience than 2FM or TodayFM. (BeatFM seems to have filled that void in that market but has a larger audience/area).

Solair

Something that could work would be perhaps

"3e local" for Dublin, Cork, Galway, Limerick, Waterford cable markets.

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

Posted in the News and Media forum. News this morning is that City Channel is to close.

Elmo

BearNecessities wrote: »

Posted in the News and Media forum. News this morning is that City Channel is to close.

Well link us to the forum :rolleyes:

Elmo

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055554339&page=2

Lol I think it is one of My Threads

Elmo

Sad to see it go TBH. Hope they get an Irish replacement for the service.

The main mistakes were 24hours of 1hour or less of actual content and Online presences was absent or not well developed

Infoanon

City Channel just palying out ads this evening - as I write there is the City Channel DOG and a blank screen with an FM104 phoneshow logo with 5th September date.

UPC have said that they shall continue to carry the service until it ceases.........I assume this means they will carry the advertisements that have been prebooked.

Sorry end for the channel.

UPC have also stated that they are looking for a replacement channel for subscribers...........

icdg

Cheap, cheerful, and loaded with infomercials was City Channel. In fact the infomercials seemed the main reason for its existance.

As I understand it City Channel still inhabits the "window" on the ex-NTL EPG which was intended for Front Row Previews. Wonder what they will put there? (Actually, I don't. It will almost certainly be the Info TV channel.)

Tarquin1970

Infoanon wrote: »

City Channel just palying out ads this evening - as I write there is the City Channel DOG and a blank screen with an FM104 phoneshow logo with 5th September date.

UPC have said that they shall continue to carry the service until it ceases.........I assume this means they will carry the advertisements that have been prebooked.

Sorry end for the channel.

UPC have also stated that they are looking for a replacement channel for subscribers...........

Only 6 months to wait for True Movies 2 then!!

steveon

Tarquin1970 wrote: »

Only 6 months to wait for True Movies 2 then!!

lol never heard a truer word..

Elmo

Infoanon wrote: »

City Channel just palying out ads this evening - as I write there is the City Channel DOG and a blank screen with an FM104 phoneshow logo with 5th September date..

This often happens

Solair

icdg wrote: »

Cheap, cheerful, and loaded with infomercials was City Channel. In fact the infomercials seemed the main reason for its existance.

As I understand it City Channel still inhabits the "window" on the ex-NTL EPG which was intended for Front Row Previews. Wonder what they will put there? (Actually, I don't. It will almost certainly be the Info TV channel.)

Presumably the dreaded Channel 100 information channel that occupies the default slots on all UPC-branded equipment.
I think the ex-NTL box programming is an anomaly they've forgotten to get to!

Elmo

City Channel demise stresses harsh reality

By Ciarán Hancock
Business Affairs Correspondent

ONE MORE THING: THE DEMISE of the Dublin-based TV station City Channel is yet another blow to the independent commercial broadcasting sector.

It highlights that this State is too small to support standalone operations such as City Channel.

Founder David Harvey ran as low-cost an operation as he could from its Sandyford base and worked hard to drum up business, yet he couldn’t make it work.

It even had the backing of US-based Liberty Global, which owns UPC Ireland.

City Channel isn’t the first Irish TV station to run into trouble. Remember Channel 6? It was launched with great ambitions in 2006 but was eventually offloaded to TV3, where it has been successfully rebranded as 3e.

Music station Bubble Hits also bit the dust and Setanta Sports was forced to retreat from the UK a couple of years ago after overpaying for premium sports rights.

Thankfully, the Irish business was saved by founders Mickey O’Rourke and Leonard Ryan, with the help of concert promoter Denis Desmond.

Even Setanta’s Irish business though has been slimmed down.

TV3 has enjoyed considerable ratings success in the past couple of years. However owner Doughty Hanson is out of pocket on the investment, having paid €265 million at the peak of the boom.

The shakeout in Irish TV is now largely complete but what of commercial radio here? Can Ireland support six national stations, half a dozen regional operators and 27 local channels? Sadly, I fear we all know the answer to that question.

Not sure about this TBH but thought it worth the post.

Solair

Bubble Hits launched late into a *very* overcrowded music television market and in an era when iPods and YouTube were becoming the main ways of viewing music videos. It was a business model that might have worked if it had happened maybe a bit earlier in the decade. It also died before the recession really took hold.

Channel 6 lacked identity, content and branding. 3e is more successful because it's part of TV3's main brand and it's basically cross promoted and an extension of the main TV3 channel.

Elmo

Solair wrote: »

Bubble Hits launched late into a *very* overcrowded music television market and in an era when iPods and YouTube were becoming the main ways of viewing music videos. It was a business model that might have worked if it had happened maybe a bit earlier in the decade. It also died before the recession really took hold.

Channel 6 lacked identity, content and branding. 3e is more successful because it's part of TV3's main brand and it's basically cross promoted and an extension of the main TV3 channel.

Bubble Hits had a number of problems but had become quite successful, as far as I know the team behind the channel choose to close the channel as they felt that the problems they had to contend with and the economy would have left them fight to survive in the future.

Channel 6 need to be more focused as an alternative, it may have worked had saorview been established fully. I don't think that 3e has much of a brand other than being part of TV3. Cross promotion etc. Actually 3e has less of an identity than channel 6.

As for City it wanted to 24hours, it was too focused on local and was that little bit too cost conscious (and low cost, TV != an airline).

As for Setanta, I wonder how long they will keep their heads in the sand.

Also regionally there is generally only 1 local Radio service, with a few exceptions.

Solair

The only exceptions to local radio are Dublin and Cork where you've multiple players.
But, most local stations outside those two urban markets have to compete with regional players like iRadio and Spin Southwest, Beat etc.

I just don't think CityChannel was offering anything that the audience actually wanted.
The programming was too niche and perhaps more suitable to non-commercial TV e.g. CCTV and DCTV which are also carried on UPC.

Realistically, if regional / local TV is going to work it needs licence fee support like BBC local TV

Infoanon

Solair wrote: »

I just don't think CityChannel was offering anything that the audience actually wanted.
The programming was too niche and perhaps more suitable to non-commercial TV e.g. CCTV and DCTV which are also carried on UPC.

Realistically, if regional / local TV is going to work it needs licence fee support like BBC local TV

Exactly - City Channel was non stop infomercials - it was never going to attract an audience and was always doomed to fail.

Ireland is too small for local television - even Sky could not get their local opt out news service to work. Any local TV services of any worth would need to be RTE regional opt out services.

As for the Irishtimes article - IT got burned with their radio investments which perhaps colours their view.

Wonder will EPG 107 be allocated to another station ?

Solair

I don't actually think even with regional opt outs Ireland could support much more than 2 or maybe 3 at a push.

I think the ideal situation would be something like opt outs after the main news bulletins on RTE TV.

RTE Cork and RTE Dublin would certainly be already kitted out to be able to do such a service without much fuss and I'm sure TG4's studios in Galway could be used for a West/Midlands service.

All you need is a newscaster, a green screen to drop in a virtual set and use the regional correspondents material more. They're probably already preparing a lot of reports that never get aired because they're too local.

Something like:

RTE "East" serving most of Leinster and down into Wexford from Donneybrook Studios.
RTE "South" from Cork Studios serving most of Munster.
RTE "West" serving Connacht/Ulster out of Galway.

You wouldn't need THAT much content, just a 10 minute bulletin tagged onto the end of the news.

They did experiment with it from RTE Cork for a while.

The only problem would be regionalising the transmission network. Given that not all that many people watch directly from the on-air transmission network, you'd have the added complication of ensuring that UPC and Sky would deliver the correct regional versions.

UPC would be easy enough, Sky would be tricky and would require extra channels to be leased on Astra to carry the regional variations.

I'm sure even if it were done on Saorview and Cable only, it would be a start though!

You could also localise the indents and branding through the play out system on Saorview / UPC feeds.

Basically 90% of the content would be national, so you'd only really be producing at most 60 minutes of programming per day.

RTE has a significant budget, and quite honestly I think they would be better off spending money on something like this than their mammoth studio rebuild at Donnybrook which seems way too expensive and likely to achieve nothing.

Refitting the existing studios with better equipment I could understand, but rebuilding the campus at huge cost seems nuts!

I mean, what's wrong with the radio centre? It's pretty good by any standards. If they want to refurbish it, great, but rebuild it?!

Same with the TV centre. Can it not be extended slightly and refitted / refurbished?

RTE's main aim should be broadcasting high quality programmes and providing public service broadcasting services, not wasting vast amounts of money to ensure it's looking pretty!

icdg

RTÉ have trialed regional opts before, on Six-One for a trial in the early 1990s and again on Nationwide for a season or two in 2000 or thereabouts. There were major problems with people on cable recieving the wrong opts (as I recall, all Chorus Digital viewers got the Galway opt no matter where they lived in the country.)

TBH I'm not sure they'll ever do again. Certainly not in the current climate.

Elmo

I am not a fan of Local TV or Radio. I think that some local operators should provide some national programming with other local operators particularly those owned by either Communicorp and UTV Media e.g. Local News at 6 with National Radio News at 6:30 >>>> The cross promotion with Newstalk would certainly help communicorps set of channels. IMO Communicorp want more radio services.

Also Local Radio operators and the IBI would be totally against RTÉ investing into any local TV or Radio opt-outs, as it would infringe on their market.

There were major problems with people on cable recieving the wrong opts (as I recall, all Chorus Digital viewers got the Galway opt no matter where they lived in the country.)

In Swords UPC customers receive Channel South (Formally Chorus Customers).

RTE "East" serving most of Leinster and down into Wexford from Donneybrook Studios.
RTE "South" from Cork Studios serving most of Munster.
RTE "West" serving Connacht/Ulster out of Galway.

If they did do this they should just brand along Transmitter names. IMO Monaghan and Canvan are to far East for RTÉ West, Ideally RTÉ would have RTÉ Ulster which would be the main RTÉ Channel for NI, to avoid rights issues and opt outs for programmes like EastEnders etc.

As for the RTÉ Campus it has been mention as one of the 1001 buildings you must see! I would wonder why its not now under some protection.

IMO Leave Local and Daytime TV to commercial operators and focus on quality national programming.

You could also localise the indents and branding through the play out system on Saorview / UPC feeds.

No need but I always liked RTÉ Corks Ident

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LLMKO4AztY

Solair

UPC STILL have Swords on the Cork headend ?!
Surely that's a bit of a waste of national bandwidth given that they could just plug the Swords network into the headend system in the Dublin area, which is only down the road

Infoanon

Is the City Channel creditors meeting still scheduled for Friday morning(Sept 30th) ?

Assume the cessation date will be agreed/announced then

Elmo

Infoanon wrote: »

Is the City Channel creditors meeting still scheduled for Friday morning(Sept 30th) ?

Where did you find this out?

watty

Solair wrote: »

I don't actually think even with regional opt outs Ireland could support much more than 2 or maybe 3 at a push.

I think the ideal situation would be something like opt outs after the main news bulletins on RTE TV.

RTE Cork and RTE Dublin would certainly be already kitted out to be able to do such a service without much fuss and I'm sure TG4's studios in Galway could be used for a West/Midlands service.

All you need is a newscaster, a green screen to drop in a virtual set and use the regional correspondents material more. They're probably already preparing a lot of reports that never get aired because they're too local.

Something like:

RTE "East" serving most of Leinster and down into Wexford from Donneybrook Studios.
RTE "South" from Cork Studios serving most of Munster.
RTE "West" serving Connacht/Ulster out of Galway.

It would now involve huge expense of rejiging the DTT distribution network and 3 extra sets of Head end encoders + digital playout systems. Not possible in foreseeable future without Millions in infrastructure investment.

Elmo

watty wrote: »

It would now involve huge expense of rejiging the DTT distribution network and 3 extra sets of Head end encoders + digital playout systems. Not possible in foreseeable future without Millions in infrastructure investment.

Well sure let TV3 foot the bill for 3e Local

Infoanon

Infoanon wrote: »

Is the City Channel creditors meeting still scheduled for Friday morning(Sept 30th) ?

Assume the cessation date will be agreed/announced then

Creditors meeting - Wednesday 5th October at 11am (Bewleys Hotel,Leopardstown)

Infoanon

Elmo wrote: »

Well sure let TV3 foot the bill for 3e Local

Thats not going to happen ! TV3 is owned by an investment company who want a significant return asap

Elmo

Infoanon wrote: »

Thats not going to happen ! TV3 is owned by an investment company who want a significant return asap

How long is ASAP

I know I was being quite sarcastic.

Infoanon

City Channel still limps on.... - tonight video is on but audio is now gone....

UPC programme listings where dropped this morning (City South was dropped last week), oddly enough new programming was introduced this week to fill the blank screens left after the FM104 phone show was canned - one month of blank screens later...

Mr_Ekan

Jeez, UPC sort it out. Seeing the remains of City Channel limping along on 107 is a bit amateur for a global company like UPC.

Also, maybe someone can explain to me how, with a skeleton staff, no programme acquisition costs and a reported revenue of €750K in the last year how they couldn't manage to stay afloat? (Or am I the only one suspicious of the reported revenue figures!!!?? I know about fools and their money, both that's a lot of both to get to a reduced level of revenue of €750K :rolleyes:

Infoanon

Mr_Ekan wrote: »

Also, maybe someone can explain to me how, with a skeleton staff, no programme acquisition costs and a reported revenue of €750K in the last year how they couldn't manage to stay afloat?

Apparently there was an issue with a high level of bad debts and the decision to cease was primarily based on the future advertising potential (or lack there of)

And the channel - Well it still limps on - went to a black screen overnight but now its back with video and audio.......

icdg

Gone into liquidation yesterday according to today's Irish Times. And sure enough, screen is blank now on 107. Anyone know when exactly the end came?

hangon

icdg wrote: »

Gone into liquidation yesterday according to today's Irish Times. And sure enough, screen is blank now on 107. Anyone know when exactly the end came?

It went to blank screen at 19.28,just in time for staff and ex staff to go for a good farewell drink i would guess.:)
really a shame this channel proved not to be viable.:(

*broadcasting again* as per EPG @ 20.30

Solair

Eh, I donno what's going on but Channel South seem to be on air with Pure Music at the moment with a City Channel DOG at the top of the screen.

Things must be getting very desperate, they're playing Jedward videos

Antenna

Solair wrote: »

Eh, I donno what's going on but Channel South seem to be on air with Pure Music at the moment with a City Channel DOG at the top of the screen.

Channel South !

that was discontinued and was replaced by Dublin's City Channel a long time ago!

Though the Channel South name still appeared on the EPG

Infoanon

and it continues....black screen with advertisements airing every so often and then back to 'programming' ,advertisements and more black screen.

This is a bizzare demise of a channel - when I think back to the days when a channel was ceasing and UPC would take it off air before the 'official' closedown.

I can only assume they are trying to air all the prebooked advertiements ?

Elmo

I assume that City Channel are just rotating old adverts and old schedules. The EPG's listings are wrong. Or prehaps the liquidators are trying to squeeze as much money out of the dead station as possible before Switching Off.

Greatest movie is Good Cop Bad Cop all the same.