Kevin Myers writes something repugnant

Teddy_Picker

Kevin Myers uses the London riots as an excuse to go on another tour of his many prejudices- immigrants, single mums, feminists, liberals and, uh, Michael D. Higgins all get a lick of the Kevin stick!

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/kevin-myers/kevin-myers-feral-rioters-all-have-one-thing-in-common-a-lack-of-father-figures-2844058.html

Myers
The duty of journalists is to tell the truth.

...and oddly enough Kevin abandons this completely and wildly speculates!

chin_grin

It's the Blackberry's Joe. The bleedin' Blackberry's. Coming over here and taking our smart phone jobs.

GLaDOS

And now he gets free advertising, job done tbh.

Kevin Myers: Professional Troll.

lastlaugh

Teddy_Picker wrote: »

Kevin Myers uses the London riots as an excuse to go on another tour of his many prejudices- immigrants, single mums, feminists, liberals and, uh, Michael D. Higgins all get a lick of the Kevin stick!

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/kevin-myers/kevin-myers-feral-rioters-all-have-one-thing-in-common-a-lack-of-father-figures-2844058.html



...and oddly enough Kevin abandons this completely and wildly speculates!

I don't understand your problem with it.

I think he makes valid points, you seem to have a bee in your bonnet about 'his many prejudices'.

Have you anything better to say than him?

arybvtcw0eolkf

I don't disagree with him.

Dangerous Man

I actually don't see the point of articles such as these. I don't wholly disagree with anything Myers says but the problem is that 1,000 words is not enough to address this subject in a meaningful way.

If by doing this, Myers is attempting to somehow light the touchpaper for some sort of debate - he probably shouldn't bother. Debates that begin from a starting point such as this attract the loud, the obnoxious and the perenially offended.

It's a waste of time, frankly.

Mahatma coat

OK how about the OP counters the Factual Inacuarcies in Myers article

I read it today too, and I have to agree with the man, the Problem stems from Black single parent Familys where the lack of a Father figure and a culture of Handouts has led to these lads believing that they can do whatever they want without fear of serious reprecussions

The Waltzing Consumer

Don't agree with Myers a lot, but OP what is repugnant in the article? You have raised the themes he deals with it, but what of them? I don't disagree with what he says, he could well be right in the article.

lastlaugh

Dangerous Man wrote: »

I actually don't see the point of articles such as these. I don't wholly disagree with anything Myers says but the problem is that 1,000 words is not enough to address this subject in a meaningful way.

If by doing this, Myers is attempting to somehow light the touchpaper for some sort of debate - he probably shouldn't bother. Debates that begin from a starting point such as this attract the loud, the obnoxious and the perenially offended.

It's a waste of time, frankly.

He is a journalist don't forget.

He is writing his opinion on a topical news story, that's the point I would imagine.

jam_mac_jam

I dont know what his problem is with single mothers. Always the nasty single mothers. Those poor little teenagers with their nasty mothers.

Badgermonkey

Many journalists covering the unrest have touched on similar themes.

It may be common for Myers to bleat on about his pet issues but that in itself does not render some points made less valid imo.

The Waltzing Consumer

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

I dont know what his problem is with single mothers. Always the nasty single mothers. Those poor little teenagers with their nasty mothers.

He gave his view about single mothers, he then picks a group to demonstrate this view, then he backs it up with a statistic to ram home the point.

seems clear to me

mikemac

Teddy_Picker wrote: »

...and oddly enough Kevin abandons this completely and wildly speculates!

Are these inaccurate so OP?
I don't know if they are accurate or not, you seem to know

No fewer than 70pc of young offenders in Britain are from single-parent families.

The facts are known: black children of single mothers are twice as likely to commit crime as black children with two parents.

Nearly 60pc of London's Afro-Caribbean mothers are single.

It's worth discussing
I believe Freakonomics covered similar in their book

Chuck Stone

The Myers lens tends to focus on those parts of the problem which will court the most controversy (that's how he earns his crust).

The aspects he highlights are very likely to be some of the factors which have contributed to the situation but only some.

4 out of 10

coonecb1

I think Myers is similar in a way to Michael Moore.

People tend to make ad-hominem attacks anytime they come out with a contreversial attacks.

If this article was written by Mary Robinson there wouldn't be as many accusations of racism etc.

I think Myers is a useful reference point and his originality adds to the level of media output in this country.

jam_mac_jam

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

He gave his view about single mothers, he then picks a group to demonstrate this view, then he backs it up with a statistic to ram home the point.

seems clear to me

indeed, he seems to give his views about single mothers quite a lot, I am wondering why.

Mahatma coat

But, the problem is the Single parent Children, they have had no discipline, no authority figure in their lives, who's fault is it that the children grow up to be antisocial?? I say its the parents, unless you think that raising children is someone elses job.

also, and history bears this out
If the mother was a Tramp who opened her legs for any passing stranger to knock her up You can bet that the Daughter wil be as bad

Ronin247

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

I dont know what his problem is with single mothers. Always the nasty single mothers. Those poor little teenagers with their nasty mothers.

When he says 60% of Londons Afro Carribbean mothers are single that doesn't mean that there is no father figure,just that they are working the system and claiming single mothers allowances.

lastlaugh

coonecb1 wrote: »

I think Myers is similar in a way to Michael Moore.

In what way exactly?

hatz7

Teddy_Picker wrote: »

Kevin Myers uses the London riots as an excuse to go on another tour of his many prejudices- immigrants, single mums, feminists, liberals and, uh, Michael D. Higgins all get a lick of the Kevin stick!

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/kevin-myers/kevin-myers-feral-rioters-all-have-one-thing-in-common-a-lack-of-father-figures-2844058.html



...and oddly enough Kevin abandons this completely and wildly speculates!

OP, I'll just throw this out here, I doubt you like KM, in general.

There is nothing wrong with his article, it was a great read. With many valid points.

What is your problem with the article???????????????????????????????????

Dearest OP when you start a thread, please offer an opinion yourself.

marcsignal

Mahatma coat wrote: »

OK how about the OP counters the Factual Inacuarcies in Myers article

Well said Mahatma

Mahatma coat wrote: »

I read it today too, and I have to agree with the man, the Problem stems from Black single parent Familys where the lack of a Father figure and a culture of Handouts has led to these lads believing that they can do whatever they want without fear of serious reprecussions

Quite true, but all race issues aside, I know if I had done anything as a youngster, that resulted in the police calling to the house, I would have been in big trouble with my old man.

In these cases, with daddy gone AWOL, what most of these feral brats have been lacking is a puck in the snot and a kick up the hole, when necessary, end of.

.

tricky D

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

I dont know what his problem is with single mothers. Always the nasty single mothers. Those poor little teenagers with their nasty mothers.

He doesn't really have a problem with single mothers, they make great material for him. Much easier for him to troll about them than about absent fathers.

7sr2z3fely84g5

Jaysus you cant write or say anything that will cause offence.

No wonder laziness in parenting and general authority set itself in.

coonecb1

lastlaugh wrote: »

In what way exactly?

Well, both Myers and Moore articulate a certain political viewpoint.

They both present their articles / movies in a way that REALLY gets under the skin of the opposing side to the debate.

Their opponents usually resort to ad-hominem attacks without ever getting into too many details as regards where they think they are wrong.

St.Spodo

This article is certainly not repugnant, OP. Yes, absent fathers should bare the brunt of the criticism but the point about patriarchy is quite a sound one.

Dr_H.Lecter_

Kevin Myers - Is he the little fatso in the Indo who regulary spurts absolute bollox ?

He's a c*nt.

(searched google - no i was thinking of someone else - the little tubby guy dressed in black, calls himself mr spy or something, pic in his column of him looking up like he's just realised how much of a ar53hole he is)

sock puppet

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

He gave his view about single mothers, he then picks a group to demonstrate this view, then he backs it up with a statistic to ram home the point.

seems clear to me

It's a completely meaningless statistic unless adjusted for other factors. So no he has nothing to back up his opinion that children of single mothers are more likely to be delinquant.

edit: well they are clearly more likely to be delinquant I suppose. However he's presented no evidence that there's any link between the two.

TomD101

Dr_H.Lecter_ wrote: »

Kevin Myers - Is he the little fatso in the Indo who regulary spurts absolute bollox ?

He's a c*nt.

(searched google - no i was thinking of someone else - the little tubby guy dressed in black, calls himself mr spy or something, pic in his column of him looking up like he's just realised how much of a ar53hole he is)

That is Ian O'Doherty - another douche. Easily confused

sambuka41

I think Myers has a point about the absent father thing, but what he missed is that the police have acted in exactly the same way. They should have squashed this on at least the second night, and given the little s**ts this kick up the hole their fathers would have if they bothered to hang around.

the police have been hanging back instead of showing them that their behaviour is out of order. Absent father figures all round I'd say.

lastlaugh

coonecb1 wrote: »

Well, both Myers and Moore articulate a certain political viewpoint.

They both present their articles / movies in a way that REALLY gets under the skin of the opposing side to the debate.

Their opponents usually resort to ad-hominem attacks without ever getting into too many details as regards where they think they are wrong.

Whatever about Myers irritating people, I think it unfair to compare him to Moore who chops and edits material to portray his point.

mackg

Dr_H.Lecter_ wrote: »

Kevin Myers - Is he the little fatso in the Indo who regulary spurts absolute bollox ?

He's a c*nt.

(searched google - no i was thinking of someone else - the little tubby guy dressed in black, calls himself mr spy or something, pic in his column of him looking up like he's just realised how much of a ar53hole he is)

lol

filthymcnasty

Greta Wide Visionary wrote: »

I don't disagree with him.

I agree with some of it but him saying those in the riot are mainly afro-carribbean/black is bull****, going by TV coverage they are of all backgrounds.

squod

An insider at Everton has revealed that fans are refusing to travel to Saturdays game against Spurs due to fears that all the best stuff has already been nicked

Tottenham have just signed a new black Italian striker. GRABATELLI

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056352003

sock puppet

lastlaugh wrote: »

Whatever about Myers irritating people, I think it unfair to compare him to Moore who chops and edits material to portray his point.

When presented the wrong way, as Myers has done, statistics can be used to show lots of relationships that don't really exist. It's pretty much outright lying.

The Waltzing Consumer

sock puppet wrote: »

It's a completely meaningless statistic unless adjusted for other factors. So no he has nothing to back up his opinion that children of single mothers are more likely to be delinquant.

edit: well they are clearly more likely to be delinquant I suppose. However he's presented no evidence that there's any link between the two.

Is the statistic not the link between the two?

"No fewer than 70pc of young offenders in Britain are from single-parent families"

I don't know what the percentage is of single parent comprised of all parents but I don't think it is 70% of all families, it would be way way lower so the statistic is certainly worthy of mentioning.

My name is URL

You could replace the 'absent-fathers' in his article with 'lack of faith' and it would still appear to make sense. Sure back in the day when kids were brought up to be God-fearing there was no riots like we've seen this week. It doesn't make what he is saying true, though. It's far too simplistic to blame all the ills of society on just one thing. Typical Myers article really.. makes sure that at least one group of people is left offended.

carlybabe1

lastlaugh wrote: »

I don't understand your problem with it.

I think he makes valid points, you seem to have a bee in your bonnet about 'his many prejudices'.

Have you anything better to say than him?

Greta Wide Visionary wrote: »

I don't disagree with him.

Mahatma coat wrote: »

OK how about the OP counters the Factual Inacuarcies in Myers article

I read it today too, and I have to agree with the man, the Problem stems from Black single parent Familys where the lack of a Father figure and a culture of Handouts has led to these lads believing that they can do whatever they want without fear of serious reprecussions

Mahatma coat wrote: »

* 1) But, the problem is the Single parent Children, they have had no discipline, no authority figure in their lives, who's fault is it that the children grow up to be antisocial?? I say its the parents, unless you think that raising children is someone elses job.

also, and history bears this out
2 *If the mother was a Tramp who opened her legs for any passing stranger to knock her up You can bet that the Daughter wil be as bad

1)While all of these things can be true, you contradict yourself in this post, you say the problem is the single parent children, and then say its the parents fault, parents as in plural. If a man fathers a child with a woman, and refuses to play a part in that childs life theres little or nothing the mother can do, except muddle through on her own, and sometimes its logistically impossible to get a job that will pay the bills/food/heating etc and cover the cost of the childminder (which bty are often on higher money than the minimum wage the mother will be earning)


Wow, dont quite know where to start with that one. While yes, kids live what they learn, I think your opinion of single mothers is obvious in this post. What about the guys who target these women cause they know they're an easy lay, and end up fathering kids with most of the local bikes but takes responsibility for none of them?? These blokes are equally responsible dont you think or do you think Im just being a 'feminazi' and also i doubt these blokes are workin hard all week.

And lastly, but not least, not every woman who ends up on her own started off this way, they dont all have a non ending que of lads waitin outside the door for thier go. Some of them have come from broken marriages, where the 'dad' claims poverty and pisses off, leaving mammy to cope on her own. And some are widows who not only lost thier husbands, but thier homes etc



fyi as far as that a*rse is concerned, making ridiculous statements such as "women were actively encouraged to be unmarried mothers to further the feminist goal" is not only laughable, but shows up his sheer stupidity and just how out of touch he is with reality..........he'd make a great politician, he'd fit right in :rolleyes:

sock puppet

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

Is the statistic not the link between the two?

"No fewer than 70pc of young offenders in Britain are from single-parent families"

I don't know what the percentage is of single parent comprised of all parents but I don't think it is 70% of all families, it would be way way lower so the statistic is certainly worthy of mentioning.

It isn't necessarily a causal link, which is why that statistic alone is meaningless.

The Waltzing Consumer

sock puppet wrote: »

When presented the wrong way, as Myers has done, statistics can be used to show lots of relationships that don't really exist. It's pretty much outright lying.

Unless you have the statistics, it is a lot more wild for you to say it is a lie based on nothing.

Unrelated, but I remember living beside a prison guard who said the vast majority of prisoners in the prison he worked at were from a very small number of areas in Dublin, so statistically he could have said "if you were from these areas, you were a lot more likely to end up in prison then if you were born and brought up in another area".

Obviously there are more factors, but myers did not close the argument saying this is the only factor. It's a debate, so let it continue.

KINGVictor

filthymcnasty wrote: »

I agree with some of it but him saying those in the riot are mainly afro-carribbean/black is bull****, going by TV coverage they are of all backgrounds.

I think you are wasting your time explaining that to him tbh...

The Waltzing Consumer

sock puppet wrote: »

It isn't necessarily a causal link, which is why that statistic alone is meaningless.

Well, I don't think it is meaningless, just limited.

Da Shins Kelly

People need to stop reading this guy. He's a terrible journalist. All he's about is getting a rise out of people. It's just bad writing.

The Waltzing Consumer

filthymcnasty wrote: »

I agree with some of it but him saying those in the riot are mainly afro-carribbean/black is bull****, going by TV coverage they are of all backgrounds.

As the riots moved on from the first few days, yes you are seeing scum of all colours now, but initially and over most of the days, they are mainly afro-carribbean black. It's one of those "I dare not speak the obvious truth" kind of thing.

white1awake

I adore Kevin Myers, and I especially loved his tribute to the 30 fallen Americans /Seals on the sands of Afghanistan this past week:

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/kevin-myers/kevin-myers-brave-us-soldiers-gave-their-lives-for-us-all-2842750.html

I am doubly chuffed to see how many here appreciate his views.....brightened this somewhat dreary day.

coonecb1

lastlaugh wrote: »

Whatever about Myers irritating people, I think it unfair to compare him to Moore who chops and edits material to portray his point.

I disagree entirely, Myers uses a different medium i.e. the written word. His chopping and editing is much more subtle than that of a film.

I have read many articles where his syntax and vocabulary have distorted actual events.

Personally, I enjoy both Moore and Myers' work anyway, as I think they both tend to make very interesting points usually

lastlaugh

sock puppet wrote: »

When presented the wrong way, as Myers has done, statistics can be used to show lots of relationships that don't really exist. It's pretty much outright lying.

Moore purposely edited material from different NRA meetings to mislead viewers into thinking they are some kind of evil organisation with Charlton Heston as their leader.

Myers has used what I guess are valid statistics to back up his opinion.

There is a big difference between the two.

The Waltzing Consumer

white1awake wrote: »

I adore Kevin Myers, and I especially loved his tribute to the 30 fallen Americans /Sealsangels, heroes, freedom fornicators, on the sands of Afghanistan this past week:

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/kevin-myers/kevin-myers-brave-us-soldiers-gave-their-lives-for-us-all-2842750.html

I am doubly chuffed to see how many here appreciate his views.....brightened this somewhat dreary day.

Fixed that for ya, goes more with the theme of that article.

God I hate defending Myers, but like I said, he raises good points, worthy of investigation.

sock puppet

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

Well, I don't think it is meaningless, just limited.

Nope. What I'm saying is that you can't draw any conclusions without more data, specifically data which has been adjusted for socio economic factors.

The Waltzing Consumer

lastlaugh wrote: »

Moore purposely edited material from different NRA meetings to mislead viewers into thinking they are some kind of evil organisation with Charlton Heston as their leader.

Myers has used what I guess are valid statistics to back up his opinion.

There is a big difference between the two.

I would agree. Moore would the of the same kind of journalism that Glenn Beck is, just on the opposite side.

Myers would not be in the same league as these guys at all, even if he writes crap a lot.

lastlaugh

sock puppet wrote: »

It isn't necessarily a causal link, which is why that statistic alone is meaningless.

"No fewer than 70pc of young offenders in Britain are from single-parent families"

That's a pretty shocking statistic if it's true, to dismiss it as meaningless because Myers uses it is foolish.

white1awake

Moore who chops and edits material

Exactly.

I used to support him in his early days on Channel Four.....but now, I am ashamed of him. I found a great doc online called "Michael Moore is a Big Fat Liar", highly recommended it if you can find it