African mothers slapping children - is it abuse?

Master and commander

Brought here on advice of Mod. If any mod wants to discuss, PM me

It's not the first time i have seen this but i was in Tesco Ardkeen, Waterford a few days ago and i notice there was an african woman there whose kids were acting up a bit. She was disciplining them with a level of violence which i thought was shocking. The was giving out first but then they (girl or 4 or 5 in particular) were still messing and she mother kinda of got angry and gave the give a few stout, sharp slaps. I was like wtf!!
She was then kinda dragging the child along on the floor a bit and giving out. The child was clearly dazed and stunned by the blows, they were hard slaps but she wasn't even crying as you'd expect.

Another time i was on the train and a black woman was in the seating bay infornt of me with a few kids of about 5 -8 yrs old. Again when the kids are causing a kerfuffle she didn't do much verbal dicipline before resorting to violence to get her point across. She was hitting and slapping the kids, not as bad as supermarket woman though. But she kept threatening them violence saying stuff like: "i will beat you, stay quiet,, or i will beat you". Again i was shocked by the attitude and how quickly she resorted to violence.
Now i'm not a PC-freak or anything, i mean sometimes a slap is in order, but not at the frequency or severity these women were doing it at. I mean i got a slap or 2 when i was a wee little brat back in the day, did me no harm but it wasn't a full blown assault with threats like these women.Those kinda slaps would hurt me even.

It seems to common among africans, as said these are just 2 examples of what i seen. Not being a racist but could it be a cultural thing in that violence is an accepted and expected part of culture in africa, given that there is so much violence over there in the civil wars and what have you. It just seems to come naturally to them to be violent, even to their kids.

Has anyone else experieces like this and what do you think we can do to bring about a change in the was kids are diciplined?

bryaner

Their always hammering their kids around my way too, it must be a given in the culture..

Tefral

Maybe if mothers did that to the scuts in London there wouldnt be a mess like there is now.

needadvi

Do you hate violence or black people? I really can't tell from this post!

thebullkf

Master and commander wrote: »

Brought here on advice of Mod. If any mod wants to discuss, PM me

It's not the first time i have seen this but i was in Tesco Ardkeen, Waterford a few days ago and i notice there was an african woman there whose kids were acting up a bit. She was disciplining them with a level of violence which i thought was shocking. The was giving out first but then they (girl or 4 or 5 in particular) were still messing and she mother kinda of got angry and gave the give a few stout, sharp slaps. I was like wtf!!
She was then kinda dragging the child along on the floor a bit and giving out. The child was clearly dazed and stunned by the blows, they were hard slaps but she wasn't even crying as you'd expect.

Another time i was on the train and a black woman was in the seating bay infornt of me with a few kids of about 5 -8 yrs old. Again when the kids are causing a kerfuffle she didn't do much verbal dicipline before resorting to violence to get her point across. She was hitting and slapping the kids, not as bad as supermarket woman though. But she kept threatening them violence saying stuff like: "i will beat you, stay quiet,, or i will beat you". Again i was shocked by the attitude and how quickly she resorted to violence.
Now i'm not a PC-freak or anything, i mean sometimes a slap is in order, but not at the frequency or severity these women were doing it at. I mean i got a slap or 2 when i was a wee little brat back in the day, did me no harm but it wasn't a full blown assault with threats like these women.Those kinda slaps would hurt me even.

It seems to common among africans, as said these are just 2 examples of what i seen. Not being a racist but could it be a cultural thing in that violence is an accepted and expected part of culture in africa, given that there is so much violence over there in the civil wars and what have you. It just seems to come naturally to them to be violent, even to their kids.

Has anyone else experieces like this and what do you think we can do to bring about a change in the was kids are diciplined?

not abuse imo.


I prefer positive reinforcement as opposed to slapping but when lines are crossed hard decisions are required.


whats our excuse?


do you have kids

Master and commander

whats our excuse? i dont know. I don't have kids, but i'd imagine a slap is sometimes nessecary when the misbehaviour is serious and reated verbal reprimands are not heeded.
I think the women i saw went over board and started clobbering their kids to the point of being dazed/stunned over some trivial messing around. I sont think they should be doing that, but unfortunatly i think the gaurds/social serveces will be reluctant to challenge them on the practice for fear of being labelled racist or afrophobic.
BTW; Did i just invent that word??

gargleblaster

If you have a child demonstrating serious misbehavior then you already have reason to re-evaluate the methods you've been using so far to show them the right way to behave. IMO corporal punishment, while it can be effective in the short term, is never effective in the long term.

As for an ethnic component to it, I have seen such claims in the past, but I don't personally know of any hard data. However, studies have shown that at least here in the US, it is primarily parents from the lower classes who most often use physical punishment.

Master and commander

well i would consider what i have seen with my own eyes as hard data. I fairness judging that over 95% of ireland is white, i would expect to see white women clobbering and hammering kids left right and centre, but i dont. As such i think its reasonable to assume that black women are more violent towards their children than white mothers.

thebullkf

Master and commander wrote: »

whats our excuse? i dont know. I don't have kids, but i'd imagine a slap is sometimes nessecary when the misbehaviour is serious and reated verbal reprimands are not heeded.
I think the women i saw went over board and started clobbering their kids to the point of being dazed/stunned over some trivial messing around.

but you're basing it on an assumption it was just messing around... culturally i'd say theres a difference.

I sont think they should be doing that, but unfortunatly i think the gaurds/social serveces will be reluctant to challenge them on the practice for fear of being labelled racist or afrophobic.
BTW; Did i just invent that word??

i doubt its because of accusations of racism, rather theres not a lot they can do.

Master and commander wrote: »

well i would consider what i have seen with my own eyes as hard data. I fairness judging that over 95% of ireland is white, i would expect to see white women clobbering and hammering kids left right and centre, but i dont. As such i think its reasonable to assume that black women are more violent towards their children than white mothers.

its subjctive- also mental abuse is far more prevalent and damaging than a few clatters.

if they were white-would youhave started this thread

Bogsnorkler

How topical considering i just saw this;

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14481311

Basically a black woman telling Boris Johnson that the police (and parents) should be slapping the **** out of the little rioting scummers.

Xxsparkyxx

Think it might be a culture thing....completely different to ours. I was in the supermarket one days and a young colored child no more than 5 or six was left holding her NEWBORN sibling!no sign of the mother!the baby could easily have been dropped or the two children could have been snatched for godsake!!!even the shop assistant stacking the shelves was fearful and kept her eye on them!!!EVENTUALLY the mother came back!!I wouldn't take my eyes off my child in the supermarket nevermind going to a different part of the store and leaving them by themselves for 10 minutes:0

Master and commander

^^^
Well i suppose the logic of that would be that over in africa the birth rate is extremely high, i mean you hear of women who have like 12 or 15 childern and who are having babies almost constantly from thier teens up inot their 40's.
The large amount of children would mean that a reduced "value" would be placed on each individual child, than say an irish mother with two kids would place on her child. That element of the culture comes with them when they move here even if they have smaller families.
Could this be, or am i just applying market priciples of over supply and reduced value in the wrong way.

Wibbs

I seem to recall reading about some very broadly different reproductive strategies across again very broadly defined populations. The idea being that Africans reproduced more and with more people and had more children taking less care of individuals and basing reproductive success on numbers. Quantity not quality. Asians reproduced far less and with fewer people and had high care of individuals and based reproductive success on quality. Europeans were in the middle. This wasn't in some KKK website either and had statistical backup and seemed to make sense.

I have a couple of problems with it. More than a couple. For a start "African" or worse "black" is a a huge and very diverse population and cultures. "Asians" and Europeans ditto. One has to be real careful ascribing anything painting in strokes that broad. Secondly that may be today, but it wasn't the case in the past. The Chinese for example used to have huge families. As did many European populations. The Irish a good example of that where 6,7 8 or even 10 kids wasn't a big shock. What is more applicable as a selection pressure for big families is economic and educational. When China was dirt poor they had lots of kids. The richer they become the less kids they have. Ditto for Europeans. I'd put good money rich Africans have fewer kids.

Most African populations are at a lower economic level to other populations. This is also true of the African diaspora. So it's logical that this reproductive strategy comes along with that.

In other areas of behaviour this may be seen too. Africans as a population have more crime and more violent crime than other groups. This includes the diaspora(10 odd% of Americans are black, yet they make up nearly half of the prison population). Again much more likely to be economic than population background. Ditto for the noted IQ differences across different populations.

I'd personally have no issue with different populations having "built in" strategies and differences because of their evolutionary history, but these diffs if there at all are very nuanced and more likely external factors like culture and cultural history play a much bigger part.

dashboard_hula

Gina Yashere, a Nigerian comedienne, does a great line in imitating her mother, who used to give out slaps right left and centre during her childhood. There may have been some comedic exaggeration, however the impression that I get is that slaps and smacks were a normal part of childhood and not regarded as abuse.
I've seen it myself amongst African neighbours, however it never made me raise my eyebrows as the intent and emotion behind any slaps seems to be the same as my own mothers when I was a kid - exasperation and a requirement that the child cop on right then and there. I never got the impression there was any meanness or pleasure in hurting the child.
In saying that, I am one of those people who believes that a few slaps shouldn't do a child any harm once there's a bedrock of love and trust there, as I was a little b*tch of a child, and looking back, I deserved every clatter with the wooden spoon that I got. I recognise the difference between discipline and abuse, and how easy it is to either cross that line, or mistake one for the other, but at the same time I'd be very hesitant to describe a smack in the supermarket as abuse.

CDfm

Yes.

Any parent (not just african mothers) who beats their children is a child abuser and needs to be prosecuted.

I never needed to hit mine.

Is there a connection between violence on children and domestic violence as adults???

Master and commander

^^^^
Absolutely, i think that its not right and i mean these women i saw were BEATING the kids, not slapping. They should be hauled up for it but unfortunately in as a result of our extremeist political correctness society we have today, the guards, social services and the public are too shy to say anything or report a black person because of the fear of being branded a xenophobic racist by all the bleeding heart, do-gooder types and end up being prosecuted themselves. ITs a damn shame that this is allowed to continue and when these kids grow up they will follow mothers example and become abuseive and violent themselves.

CDfm

I cant see that there is a distinction between slapping and beating.

In Ireland , you could not go out shopping a few years back without seeing women slapping/beating their children and hearing the children cry and scream and suddenly they had to cope.

Thats a short time ago.

If like Irish parents foreign parents felt they would have to deal with the consequenses then they would find a way of coping.

TelePaul

Sensationalist thread in my opinion. Irish mothers/fathers did and still do hit their kids. Granted, this kind of 'discipline' appears less prevalent of late, but it's taken quite some time for the notion that hitting a child is wrong to permeate Irish society. Even so, I expect a great many parents still resort to this approach, and again, I'm sure that anyone who grew up in the 70s or 80s was exposed to it, if not first-hand then as an onlooker. To subjectively infer that 'African's or 'blacks' are naturally more pre-disposed towards violence is quite offensive tbh.

Hunchback

irish parents slap far less frequently these days.

irish parents have far less control of / respect from their kids these days.

... for the most part.

Dacelonid

cronin_j wrote: »

Maybe if mothers did that to the scuts in London there wouldnt be a mess like there is now.

Couldn't agree more. There is too much pandering to the bleeding heart liberals in western society.
I've just become a dad for the first time and I can tell you, there will be no naughty step in our house. If my daughter does something wrong she will be slapped.

Now I am not condoning breaking bones, or concussions or anything like that, but there is nothing wrong with a sharp slap to make a child realise that they did wrong.

CDfm

@dacelonid I dont have a naughty step and on slapping never needed too. Maybe I was lucky.

jodaw

Dacelonid wrote: »

Couldn't agree more. There is too much pandering to the bleeding heart liberals in western society.
I've just become a dad for the first time and I can tell you, there will be no naughty step in our house. If my daughter does something wrong she will be slapped.

Now I am not condoning breaking bones, or concussions or anything like that, but there is nothing wrong with a sharp slap to make a child realise that they did wrong.

+1000

I mean look at the state of our country today. Children are becoming more unruly and the problems will manifest themselves in more visible ways in the future.

If the child reckons there are no punishments for their actions well then they will do whatever the hell they like. All this PC bull**** sickens me to my stomach. The state will be interfering more and more in the future.

Slap your child and go to prison... Ask my hole you weirdos.

Ask yourselves were people in Ireland more respectful years ago when the schools used to smash their heads in or are people more respectful today???

I need not ask that question because we all know the answer. Lack of punishment as kids and when adults, lack of punishment by judges.

Recipe for disaster...

I got plenty of slaps in the arse with the wooden spoon when i was a midget and i needed it too. The terror when i would see this wooden spoon still keeps me in line today and i am a better person for it.

Let parents decides what is best for their kids and the good ones brought up with discipline will balance the bad little ****s that are allowed to do as they please

CDfm

The only thing a child learns from being hit is how to hit and lash out.

The riots in England were by little hooligans and some were from good homes too.

My take on it is that I could deal with my kids without hitting and for hitting they went to football and martial arts as part of their violence controlled upbringing. My son is 21 and can left me and is a blocky lad and could send me into the middle of next week -no problem at all.

I am a nice guy and didnt want him to think violence in the home was an answer. My view is slapping kids can teach that.

Mark Hamill

CDfm wrote: »

The only thing a child learns from being hit is how to hit and lash out.

And thats why I, a child who was smacked while growing up, am now a serial killer, because all I ever learned was..... oh wait, that BS, because your claim is BS. A child learns, from being hit, that they shouldn't have done whatever it was that got them hit in the first place. Whether or not this has a negative effect on the kid is determined by what else the parent does, what other punishments they use, how they explain it to the kid and how old the kid is.

CDfm wrote: »

My take on it is that I could deal with my kids without hitting and for hitting they went to football and martial arts as part of their violence controlled upbringing.

Good for you. What applies to you and your kids may not apply to everyone else though.

CDfm wrote: »

My son is 21 and can left me and is a blocky lad and could send me into the middle of next week -no problem at all.

At 21, he is no longer a child, so a bit older than what most people here (I assume) are discussing.

CDfm wrote: »

I am a nice guy and didnt want him to think violence in the home was an answer. My view is slapping kids can teach that.

Did you ever ground your kids? Would that not teach them that false imprisonment is an answer?

CDfm

I do not want to go into specifics, just to say, that thats my belief and I have never been in a situation where smaking etc was nesscessary. I have seen my kid become a man and a fairly cool guy at that.

I have disciplined them other ways and that worked for me - a lot different than my parents generation.

So I suppose slapping would have been the ultimate punishment.

leggo

In my dayjob, I encounter this 3-4 times a day at least.

Now I've known and got on with plenty of African people in my life, so I'd be the last person who'd look to tarnish them all by saying it's an African/black problem. It's clearly not...as I also know plenty who are perfectly caring, loving parents. Just yesterday there was a really cute, friendly child in with her mother chatting away to staff and just being a dote.

To have seen what I've seen, though, and deny it happens at all would be plain ignorant.

It is a cultural matter. Whatever sub-culture among Africans it is, I don't know to be honest. You'll regularly see children running absolute riot with their parents not paying a blind bit of attention to them. Then the parent remembers that they are a parent, momentarily, gives each child an absolute clatter and goes back to ignoring them. The children either cry or calm down for a while until they get bored and start again. It makes me angry to watch as it is the laziest form of parenting imaginable.

It's gotten to the point where, if the kids are creating a disturbance in the shop, I will approach the parent and tell them that if they don't keep them under control, they will have to leave as the kids are putting their own safety and that of others at risk.

Don't get me wrong, I'll also do this to any other nationality (Irish included) I see doing the same. The other week, I said the same to a very passive Eastern European lady whose young boy was trying to remove fixtures and fittings. And yet it always seems to be a particular kind of people that I'm dealing with constantly (again, I'm deliberately not labelling them black or African because that puts a slant on the entire race).

I remember I worked with a (very friendly, decent) Romanian girl who absolutely loathed Roma gypsies. Her reasoning being that a lot of people that she told her nationality to seemed to pre-judge her on the behaviour of the latter (even though Roma gypsies aren't all Romanian). Same deal here: I would imagine that for the aforementioned decent African people (who I would guess are the vast majority), these people are a slight because they give rise to prejudices in Western society. Personally, I try to always give individual people a fresh slate regardless of ethnicity, but a lot of others just don't have the time, energy or perspective to do so. When you see it happen, day-in, day-out, it's going to paint a picture. And it's a massive shame because it only taints the general public's perspective of decent, good-willing people.

alex73

I was slapped as a kid when i acted it, i did me no harm, my mum is amazing. But its not the discipline i would recommend

citizen_p

I got slapped as a kid when I did somthing seriously wrong, did me a world of good IMO. its odd however when I talk to some people my own age and they can't believe it and tend to have a dumbstruck look on their face as if I was getting eating on a daily basis.

when I say slapped I mean one slap, not a punch, not repeatedly. there is a immense diffrence between a slap and abuse.

A slap is somtimes neccessary IMO, it offers an immidiate signal to the child what he/she is doing is wrong and must be stopped immidietly, somthing which a naughty step or a calming down talk can't achieve. I wouldn't be recommending it for minor offences, but for times when a child, hits somone, purposfully breaks somthing,runs out infront of traffic etc....

Plenum

I agree with Mousey, its time we left all this PC bull**** behind, a child who misbehaves needs a short sharp shock to let them know it wont be tolerated....they need to know whos the boss...speaking to them nicely saying please dont do that again doesnt work
Most of us of a certain age all got a slap as kids when we deserved it.

Look at the state of the place now, little scrotes strutting around, no respect for anything...no point trying to reason with them as they break into your house or try steal your car...

leggo

Plenum wrote: »

I agree with Mousey, its time we left all this PC bull**** behind, a child who misbehaves needs a short sharp shock to let them know it wont be tolerated....they need to know whos the boss...speaking to them nicely saying please dont do that again doesnt work

But that, to me, suggests poor communication skills on the parent's part.

The scenario you give suggests either being passive, by speaking to them nicely, or aggressive, by slapping them. Can parents not assert themselves without having to resort to using physical violence?

What if they were a boss in their dayjob - would they bend their employees over one knee and spank them for not meeting a deadline? Of course they wouldn't, they'd have to find other means of getting respect. So why does that change when it comes to a child?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a namby-pamby type either. I see my little sister having my mother wrapped around her fingers every day. The moment she doesn't get what she wants, she'll start those type of heart-breaking sobs and start to talk about her 'feelings'. Of course, the mother starts running and my sister is in control.

She wouldn't dare try that with my Dad, or me, in fact. And she was never slapped (apart from a brief phase where my parents tried it when she was young, but decided against it shortly afterwards). So how can she respect one parent without them needing to resort to violence but not the other?

Even dissect your quote further, the action of slapping leads to a consequence of 'letting them know who's boss'. Not teaching them a lesson. These are your own words, not mine. Rather than thinking about what's best for the child, your own thought process is governed by your need to show you are 'in charge'. One could suggest that slapping is a way of over-compensating for this because it is clearly something you are concerned with.

Now can you honestly tell me, with that in mind, that your need to slap your child is not down to poor communication skills/the inability to assert yourself in a non-violent way?*


*I'm sure you'll come back with a well thought-out post to 'prove' you don't have poor communication skills and try and rubbish the above claim, but I just found it extremely telling that when you could have said anything to justify your point, that was the route you took.

**I'm not trying to make it personal by calling your own communication/parenting skills into question, however you parent is your own business and I'm sure your own children won't grow up to be murderers, I just wished to examine the mindframe of someone who agrees with slapping children and your quote gave a great example. I hope you take it in the spirit of the debate and not personally.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

Plenum wrote: »

Look at the state of the place now, little scrotes strutting around, no respect for anything...no point trying to reason with them as they break into your house or try steal your car...

A lot of those little scrotes look like they could have been the children of the type of white Irish scumbags I regularly see dragging their children along the street or smacking them. I have to say I see that much more regularly than I see African women smacking their children, but I do live somewhere that doesn't have a very big African population from what I've noticed.

I don't think there's anything wrong with a smack by itself, but it should never be the first resort. The people I have seen physically disciplining their children are also usually roaring at the child in between ignoring it, a smack seems to me to be a symptom of generally bad parenting. It just shouldn't be needed. But yes it does go too far the other way, kids can be sneaky wee ****es and probably even the knowledge that a smack is a possibility will cop a brat on a lot quicker than the knowledge that they're going to be put on the naughty step. My parents very rarely smacked me, my granny regularly did, and I know who I behaved better for.

But I also did appreciate the reasons behind why I was supposed to behave: it made my parents or other people embarrassed, stressed, upset etc. If I'd just been smacked instead of otherwise disciplined I wouldn't have known that til much later, I would have thought "I have to behave, and the reason I have to is because I will get smacked otherwise". I'm thinking back to the best behaved and worst behaved families of kids I knew in school, I saw both of them get hit by their parents, but the worst behaved children had the parents who'd hit them at the drop of a hat and roar at and ignore them the rest of the time. There's no excuse for an adult to hit a child in anger or frustration, they're supposed to be adults.

Plenum

leggo wrote: »

But that, to me, suggests poor communication skills on the parent's part.

The scenario you give suggests either being passive, by speaking to them nicely, or aggressive, by slapping them. Can parents not assert themselves without having to resort to using physical violence?

What if they were a boss in their dayjob - would they bend their employees over one knee and spank them for not meeting a deadline? Of course they wouldn't, they'd have to find other means of getting respect. So why does that change when it comes to a child?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a namby-pamby type either. I see my little sister having my mother wrapped around her fingers every day. The moment she doesn't get what she wants, she'll start those type of heart-breaking sobs and start to talk about her 'feelings'. Of course, the mother starts running and my sister is in control.

She wouldn't dare try that with my Dad, or me, in fact. And she was never slapped (apart from a brief phase where my parents tried it when she was young, but decided against it shortly afterwards). So how can she respect one parent without them needing to resort to violence but not the other?

Even dissect your quote further, the action of slapping leads to a consequence of 'letting them know who's boss'. Not teaching them a lesson. These are your own words, not mine. Rather than thinking about what's best for the child, your own thought process is governed by your need to show you are 'in charge'. One could suggest that slapping is a way of over-compensating for this because it is clearly something you are concerned with.

Now can you honestly tell me, with that in mind, that your need to slap your child is not down to poor communication skills/the inability to assert yourself in a non-violent way?*


*I'm sure you'll come back with a well thought-out post to 'prove' you don't have poor communication skills and try and rubbish the above claim, but I just found it extremely telling that when you could have said anything to justify your point, that was the route you took.

**I'm not trying to make it personal by calling your own communication/parenting skills into question, however you parent is your own business and I'm sure your own children won't grow up to be murderers, I just wished to examine the mindframe of someone who agrees with slapping children and your quote gave a great example. I hope you take it in the spirit of the debate and not personally.

you said your parents did slap her briefly..could it be that during that phase your dad gave her a slap at the appropriate time...and now she only tries it on with your mum
Kids will take the path of least resistance, they are not stupid...a slap is always the last resort to deal with bad behaviour, and should be used as a correction to snap the child out of a pattern of bad behaviour. There is a world of difference between a slap and beating a child. No parent takes any pleasure in slapping a child but boundaries have to be established

Plenum

Alfred Crooked Rosemary wrote: »

A lot of those little scrotes look like they could have been the children of the type of white Irish scumbags I regularly see dragging their children along the street or smacking them. I have to say I see that much more regularly than I see African women smacking their children, but I do live somewhere that doesn't have a very big African population from what I've noticed.

I don't think there's anything wrong with a smack by itself, but it should never be the first resort. The people I have seen physically disciplining their children are also usually roaring at the child in between ignoring it, a smack seems to me to be a symptom of generally bad parenting. It just shouldn't be needed. But yes it does go too far the other way, kids can be sneaky wee ****es and probably even the knowledge that a smack is a possibility will cop a brat on a lot quicker than the knowledge that they're going to be put on the naughty step. My parents very rarely smacked me, my granny regularly did, and I know who I behaved better for.

But I also did appreciate the reasons behind why I was supposed to behave: it made my parents or other people embarrassed, stressed, upset etc. If I'd just been smacked instead of otherwise disciplined I wouldn't have known that til much later, I would have thought "I have to behave, and the reason I have to is because I will get smacked otherwise". I'm thinking back to the best behaved and worst behaved families of kids I knew in school, I saw both of them get hit by their parents, but the worst behaved children had the parents who'd hit them at the drop of a hat and roar at and ignore them the rest of the time. There's no excuse for an adult to hit a child in anger or frustration, they're supposed to be adults.

A slap is always the last resort, Im not advocating knocking seven bells out of the child, just a short correction to the child to snap them out of bad behaviour...you said it yourself that when your granny smacked you you knew to behave
I got smacked occassionally as a kid but looking back I always deserved it

leggo

Plenum wrote: »

you said your parents did slap her briefly..could it be that during that phase your dad gave her a slap at the appropriate time...and now she only tries it on with your mum

Ooh...I really, really doubt it.

I mean, you're talking about a method of parenting they tried for 2-3 days when the girl was 4-5 years of age dominating how she views her world six years later. I don't think that's in any way plausible, unless they gave her some hiding that I don't know about and she has been living in fear for years since (which is hardly healthy in itself).

The simple reality, in my view, would be that my mother is a bit of a softer touch, whereas my father is willing to play the bad cop (I don't mean to call the quality of my parents into question, by the way, I would venture to say most parents I've encountered have a good/bad cop dynamic with each individual child). My father is also a former Garda and works today in an environment where people must respect him on a day-to-day basis so he is used to gaining that respect in a non-physical manner. As a result, he doesn't need to throw his weight around physically.

That alone, to me, suggests that it is possible for everyone to do so and such is the tricky, demanding nature of parenting. I don't condemn slapping because I am worried it will turn children into life-long criminals. I condemn it because I see it as lazy, a shortcut, and am yet to hear a compelling argument that convinces me otherwise.

One could argue that sometimes shortcuts are necessary on balance, and I would agree with that statement in principle. But I worry that the act of slapping is diluting the lesson learned by the child from "It is wrong to (do whatever they were doing)" to simply "I am your parent and in charge"...which teaches them little else, and could later damage them when they grow up and should be questioning their parents decisions in an effort to forge an identity of their own. None of us are infallible, after all, and trying to force our children into believing this could be cutting off a key part of their development.