Veradkar formally suspends 45 road projects

Sponge Bob

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/on-the-road-to-nowhere-45-routes-axed-as-cutbacks-bite-2842859.html

Some of these require no further planning, they are shovel ready. Apart from that it is no real surprise.

In a statement to the Irish Independent, Mr Varadkar confirmed he had "instructed the NRA to rein in spending on planning and preparatory works".
He said: "Specifically, the NRA is taking all road projects to the end of their current stage of planning and will suspend them at that point.
"In my view, we should focus the limited resources we have on maintain existing infrastructure and proceeding with the small number of shovel-ready projects that we can afford to proceed with.
"I do not believe that it is appropriate to continue to spend millions of euro planning projects when we do not know if we can fund them.

List

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/projects-in-the-pipeline-that-are-now-suspended-2842853.html

N2 Slane bypass.
N2 Castleblayney to NI Border.
N3 North of Kells to Cavan.
N4 Mullingar to Longford Rooskey.
N4 Carrick-on-Shannon to Dromod.
N4 Collooney to Castlebaldwin.
N5 Westport to N26 at Bohola.
M8 Dunkettle interchange upgrade.
M11 Enniscorthy to Gorey.
N11/N25 Oilgate to Rosslare Harbour.
N14 Letterkenny to Lifford.
N15 Ballybofey/Stranorlar bypass.
N15 Sligo to Bundoran.
N15 Lifford to Ballybofey/Stanorlar.
N17 Collooney to Tobercurry.
N17 Tobercurry bypass.
N17 Knock to Tobercurry.
N17 Tuam to Claremorris.
N21 Adare to Abbeyfeale.
N21 Adare bypass.
N22 Farranfore to Killarney.
N22 Ballyvourney to Macroom.
N22 Cork North Ring Road.
N24 Pallasgreen to Bansha.
N24 Ballysimon to Pallasgreen.
N25 New Ross bypass.
N25 Dungarvan bypass.
N25 Carrigtwohill to Midleton.
N25 Cork Southern Ring road upgrade.
N25 Waterford to Glenmore
N26 Ballina/Bohola.
N30 Clonroche to New Ross.
NATIONAL SECONDARY ROADS
N52 Kilbeggan to Tullamore.
N52 Ardee bypass.
N56 Dungloe to Glenties.
N56 Mountcharles to Inver.
N59 Clifden to Oughterard.
N59 Moycullen bypass.
N59 Westport to Mulranny.
N62 Thurles bypass.
N69 Listowel bypass.
N71 Kenmare bypass.
N81 Tallaght bypass to Hollywood Cross.
N86 Tralee to Dingle.
N87 Ballyconnell inner relief road.

dubhthach

Talking about it on RnaG at the moment, just tuned in sounds like Pearse Doherty is on the phone.

veryangryman

Very few of these that are badly needed (maybe Slane but even then you can make argument on M1-N33-N2 for inter city traffic)

I guess the dream of N61 Athlone-Roscommon being upgraded to primary is about as useless as that yellow lemon shaped rock over there.

Any of these old roads accident blackspots? I dont see too many. Maybe this shelving is not THAT bad an idea (though of course i like a good road)

dubhthach

No wonder "Phiarais" is so animated. I see they've cancelled the new bridge over the River Finn to connect with the proposed A5 in Northern Ireland.

http://www.donegalcoco.ie/NR/rdonlyres/D60DBCEE-37EC-4EF4-A3D9-BBB1044D7751/0/N14.pdf

Perhaps we will hear a statement about the A5 from Leo next?

The N14 Lifford/Letterkenny is a 19km Dual carriageway which would also obviously hook into proposed A5
http://www.donegalcoco.ie/services/roadstransport/majorprojects/manorcunninghamstrabane.htm

Map of N15 scheme here (likewise hooks into A5): N15 Lifford - Stranorlar - Ballybofey
http://www.donegalcoco.ie/NR/rdonlyres/26A38A30-CEF3-4B59-9A5D-A39883E8FA9B/0/N15LiffordtoStranorlarSchemeLayout.pdf
http://www.donegalcoco.ie/services/roadstransport/majorprojects/liffordballybofey.htm

They weren't long getting Pat The Cope on after Pearse.

D.L.R.

Good. The era of building giant roads for imagined settlements in the middle of nowhere is finally at an end, and the flagrant abuse of the national exchequer that entailed.

Hopefully essential projects (where people actually live) can be accomodated in due course.

Furthermore, lets hope the likes of the Tralee Bypass is the last time we see the country held to ransom by independent TDs with too much power and not enough sense.

munchkin_utd

dubhthach wrote: »

No wonder "Phiarais" is so animated. I see they've cancelled the new bridge over the River Finn to connect with the proposed A5 in Northern Ireland.

http://www.donegalcoco.ie/NR/rdonlyres/D60DBCEE-37EC-4EF4-A3D9-BBB1044D7751/0/N14.pdf

Perhaps we will hear a statement about the A5 from Leo next?
[/URL]
.

probably not.
Its a project that is not a department of transport funding matter.

Dept of the taoiseach is the responsible dept if I remember rightly.

Sponge Bob

The N14/N15 to A5 Link is NOT on the list the Indo got. Leo obviously has to cancel his own roads first before he goes near the A5 project. The N5 Ballaghadereen Bypass mysteriously survived as well.

dubhthach

Sponge Bob wrote: »

The N14/N15 to A5 Link is NOT on the list the Indo got.

Indeed I noticed that myself but both Pearse and Pat "the Cope" mentioned the Finn Bridge been cancelled in the interview I was listening to earlier -- either that or I really need to listen to more Donegal speakers more often.

Tabnabs

N81 Tallaght bypass to Hollywood Cross.

Bugger, that's one I hoped would get through, it can be a very heavily congested and the section after Tallaght is a nightmare.

Irish and Proud

D.L.R. wrote: »

Good. The era of building giant roads for imagined settlements in the middle of nowhere is finally at an end, and the flagrant abuse of the national exchequer that entailed.

Hopefully essential projects (where people actually live) can be accomodated in due course.

Furthermore, lets hope the likes of the Tralee Bypass is the last time we see the country held to ransom by independent TDs with too much power and not enough sense.

While I agree with the last paragraph, the rest is just pure anti-road / anti-car nonsense! In the whole scheme of things, the highest amount of money spent on roads for any one year was €2bn - pittance compared to Health (€20bn approx at peak) and Social Welfare (€20bn approx at peak) as well as other big spending departments such as education. The €2bn (peak) for roads included Road Building, Maintenance, Street Lighting, Footpaths, Traffic Calming and Safety Measures, Council Grants etc. I think motorway spending itself peaked at around €1bn!

IMO, the motorway system is great - got my driving test last January and love driving the motorways and the smaller country roads! We need the M11 A to R, N7 NLX, M18 and M20 including CNRR section.

Regards!

munchkin_utd

Irish and Proud wrote: »

..... In the whole scheme of things, the highest amount of money spent on roads for any one year was €2bn - pittance compared to Health (€20bn approx at peak) and Social Welfare (€20bn approx at peak) as well as other big spending departments such as education.

yup. 100%

Childrens allowance alone is 2.5 BILLION a year for example.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/1005/1224280400882.html

Free travel is 600 million a year IIRC, which would nearly on its own build the M20.

Ireland is not poor because of building a few roads and other capital schemes.

Its running a chronic defecit by spending too much in day to day expenses without taking in enough cash to pay for them.

Bards

We should be closing rural hospitals in sparsley populated towns and the money saved to build better/faster roads to reduce the time it takes to get to a major Hospital which will be better staffed etc. through economies of Scale.

imangry29

So presumably all the staff within the NRA whose job it was to progress these schemes will be let go? What will we be paying them to do now? And all the people in our Local Authority Roads Design Offices? If these projects were being managed privately, the announcement would be coupled with significant redundancies. God bless Croke Park eh? I would be more impressed if Leo announced that all these local design offices were to be amalgamated into (perhaps) 2 or 3 strong design offices (e.g. Dublin, Cork, Galway could easily cover the country). With so few projects, it could be entirely centralised to Dublin. That's where the real saving lie, current expenditure.

Also, the N22 Ballyvourney-Macroom scheme is through all stages of planning. Application and EIS are approved by An Bord Pleanala, CPO is approved by An Bord Pleanala. So really Leo is axing everything which hasn't started :mad:

Sponge Bob

The NRA staff who worked on these frequently expensive and vapourificatious projects are to be transferred ( on a large scale) to the new National Water Authority which will be set up formally in the Autumn.

Course if they refuse to go quietly per the Croke Park terms they will then be made redundant.

corktina

Bards wrote: »

We should be closing rural hospitals in sparsley populated towns and the money saved to build better/faster roads to reduce the time it takes to get to a major Hospital which will be better staffed etc. through economies of Scale.

Try telling that to the people of Rockchapel (for instance) who are already over threequaters of an hour* from Mallow A&E and will be at least another 20 minutes getting to CUH (the other side of Cork city) when Mallow closes just to sit on a trolley in a corridor for hours (amid scum and drunks), and tieing up the Ambulance Crew who cant be released until the patient is accepted.

* more actually as it takes the Ambulance 20 minutes to get there from base in the first place)

jonnybravo

Wonder how much money was spent on getting all these projects to planning stage and for most of them I'd say they won't happen for at least 10 years. I know the one closest to me, thurles bypass, is needed but not near essential and I thought it was madness even going to this stage with the current deficit. Should have been culled a long time ago.

Idbatterim

how much is being saved by scrapping these projects? its hardly surprising, the easy targets are going to be hammered, not like OAP etc would be cut before infrastructure!

Bards

corktina wrote: »

Try telling that to the people of Rockchapel (for instance) who are already over threequaters of an hour* from Mallow A&E and will be at least another 20 minutes getting to CUH (the other side of Cork city) when Mallow closes just to sit on a trolley in a corridor for hours (amid scum and drunks), and tieing up the Ambulance Crew who cant be released until the patient is accepted.

* more actually as it takes the Ambulance 20 minutes to get there from base in the first place)

but isn't that my point. Build the M20, the M24 etc. to decrease the time it takes to get to a Major Hospital.

Same goes for other services that we are duplicating all over the country becasue of crappy infrastructure

Sponge Bob

Best argument for the Galway bypass too....seeing as the main hospital in the west is on the 'wrong side' for most of the population of Connacht.

spacetweek

Sponge Bob wrote: »

The NRA staff who worked on these frequently expensive and vapourificatious projects are to be transferred ( on a large scale) to the new National Water Authority which will be set up formally in the Autumn.

Course if they refuse to go quietly per the Croke Park terms they will then be made redundant.

Is this for real?

L1011

dubhthach wrote: »

The N14 Lifford/Letterkenny is a 19km Dual carriageway which would also obviously hook into proposed A5
http://www.donegalcoco.ie/services/roadstransport/majorprojects/manorcunninghamstrabane.htm

This is probably the worst quality N primary in a border area (where we've done a lot of mickey-waving since the 1990s) and badly needs *some* form of upgrade. Even removing a few bends and providing some potential overtaking opportunities would make Letterkenny safer and quicker to access from Dublin.

corktina

Bards wrote: »

but isn't that my point. Build the M20, the M24 etc. to decrease the time it takes to get to a Major Hospital.

Same goes for other services that we are duplicating all over the country becasue of crappy infrastructure

The M20 wont go to CUH so how much time would be saved between mallow and Cork..not much as Ambulances on blues and twos would be flat out all the way now and even then, the A&Es in Cork are desperately over-loaded as it is with talk of Limerisck A&E closing at certain times with CUH taking that strain too.

the problem with your theory is that those small A&Es dont just cover the town they are in but also a huge hinterland and closing them in many cases will result in vastly extended times to get to A&E and people dying.

waxon-waxoff

Sponge Bob wrote: »

The N5 Ballaghadereen Bypass mysteriously survived as well.

Whats mysterious about that? Because its on Enda Kennys drive home? After cutting the a&e its obvious he does not do favours for his neighbours in Roscommon.

Neworder79

The N5 Ballaghadereen Bypass mysteriously survived as well.

Many reasons why it may happen.

After major motorways network completed the W/NW is the last region with poor access routes.

Better roads used as justification for removal of PSO air links and airport subsidies.

It's a serious bottleneck with a tight 90 degree turn in the centre of the town which can barely accommodate an artic lorry and has been the cause of several accidents.

The Mayo industrial group representing several of the major multinational employers in west have warned of job cuts if they lose projects due to the quality of the road transport.

The project is also one of the few 'shovel ready'. And I'd imagine they don't want to deliver any more bad news to Roscommon after the hospital closures.

Outkast_IRE

Can somone clear this up for me this project
the Cork n25 south ring road upgrade ???

Surely this isnt referring to the two new flyovers which were in all the news the last two months ?
All the site cabins etc are on site now along with workers doing final prep work the last 3 weeks or more.

NabyLadistheman

waxon-waxoff wrote: »

Whats mysterious about that? Because its on Enda Kennys drive home? After cutting the a&e its obvious he does not do favours for his neighbours in Roscommon.

You've obviously never driven Westport - Longford. Absolutely shocking road. It's scandalous what's happening but that route needs improving

L1011

torresistheman wrote: »

You've obviously never driven Westport - Longford. Absolutely shocking road. It's scandalous what's happening but that route needs improving

shocking except for the flynn expressway bits. We can see what kenny intends to emulate

corktina

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

Can somone clear this up for me this project
the Cork n25 south ring road upgrade ???

Surely this isnt referring to the two new flyovers which were in all the news the last two months ?
All the site cabins etc are on site now along with workers doing final prep work the last 3 weeks or more.

i would think this refers to the proposed work at the Dunkettle intersection

waxon-waxoff

torresistheman wrote: »

You've obviously never driven Westport - Longford. Absolutely shocking road. It's scandalous what's happening but that route needs improving

Ive driven it often, im from down that way. I asked why the poster said it was "mysterious" why that bypass was going ahead when its years overdue.

I believe this section of the N5 was neglected for years as Roscommon hasnt had a proper politician since Douglas Hyde yet a few miles over the border Padraig Flynn got the road to Castlebar fixed up when he was minister. Its at least 15 years since routes for the bypass were first drawn up.

Chris_5339762

Note the lack of the M20 in this.

D.L.R.

D.L.R. wrote:

Good. The era of building giant roads for imagined settlements in the middle of nowhere is finally at an end, and the flagrant abuse of the national exchequer that entailed.

Hopefully essential projects (where people actually live) can be accomodated in due course.

Furthermore, lets hope the likes of the Tralee Bypass is the last time we see the country held to ransom by independent TDs with too much power and not enough sense.

Irish and Proud wrote: »

While I agree with the last paragraph, the rest is just pure anti-road / anti-car nonsense! In the whole scheme of things, the highest amount of money spent on roads for any one year was €2bn - pittance compared to Health (€20bn approx at peak) and Social Welfare (€20bn approx at peak) as well as other big spending departments such as education. The €2bn (peak) for roads included Road Building, Maintenance, Street Lighting, Footpaths, Traffic Calming and Safety Measures, Council Grants etc. I think motorway spending itself peaked at around €1bn!

IMO, the motorway system is great - got my driving test last January and love driving the motorways and the smaller country roads! We need the M11 A to R, N7 NLX, M18 and M20 including CNRR section.

Regards!

I'm sure there was gross misuse of resources in other depts too, thats my point which you seem to have missed in your joyriding bloodrush! :pac:

imangry29

Sponge Bob wrote: »

The NRA staff who worked on these frequently expensive and vapourificatious projects are to be transferred ( on a large scale) to the new National Water Authority which will be set up formally in the Autumn.

Course if they refuse to go quietly per the Croke Park terms they will then be made redundant.

In which case, the local authority staff currently responsible for delivery of water services are no longer required?? One way or another it is surely becoming obvious that our backroom, office-based public services (like the NRA, local authorities) are overflowing with overpaid, idle bodies at the expense of valid road projects, healthcare, education etc. (For another forum, but haven't Bord na Mona made the pitch to run the water services?). NWA for Autumn?!?!?!? With all that annual leave to use, most of the public servants charged with establishing the body will still be on their holiers. Or they might tag on some of that mandatory sick leave. I digress.....

Amtmann

Sponge Bob wrote: »

List

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/projects-in-the-pipeline-that-are-now-suspended-2842853.html

N2 Slane bypass.
N2 Castleblayney to NI Border.
N3 North of Kells to Cavan.
N4 Mullingar to Longford Rooskey.
N4 Carrick-on-Shannon to Dromod.
N4 Collooney to Castlebaldwin.
N5 Westport to N26 at Bohola.
M8 Dunkettle interchange upgrade.
M11 Enniscorthy to Gorey.
N11/N25 Oilgate to Rosslare Harbour.
N14 Letterkenny to Lifford.
N15 Ballybofey/Stranorlar bypass.
N15 Sligo to Bundoran.
N15 Lifford to Ballybofey/Stanorlar.
N17 Collooney to Tobercurry.
N17 Tobercurry bypass.
N17 Knock to Tobercurry.
N17 Tuam to Claremorris.
N21 Adare to Abbeyfeale.
N21 Adare bypass.
N22 Farranfore to Killarney.
N22 Ballyvourney to Macroom.
N22 Cork North Ring Road.
N24 Pallasgreen to Bansha.
N24 Ballysimon to Pallasgreen.
N25 New Ross bypass.
N25 Dungarvan bypass.
N25 Carrigtwohill to Midleton.
N25 Cork Southern Ring road upgrade.
N25 Waterford to Glenmore
N26 Ballina/Bohola.
N30 Clonroche to New Ross.
NATIONAL SECONDARY ROADS
N52 Kilbeggan to Tullamore.
N52 Ardee bypass.
N56 Dungloe to Glenties.
N56 Mountcharles to Inver.
N59 Clifden to Oughterard.
N59 Moycullen bypass.
N59 Westport to Mulranny.
N62 Thurles bypass.
N69 Listowel bypass.
N71 Kenmare bypass.
N81 Tallaght bypass to Hollywood Cross.
N86 Tralee to Dingle.
N87 Ballyconnell inner relief road.

List seems dubious to me. There is no such thing as "Pallasgreen to Bansha" or
"N25 Cork south ring road upgrade". These are not official scheme names. So the question is: what's the source? And how reliable is it?

The N28 isn't on the list; yet the Dunkettle Interchange is, despite the launch of a shiny website for the scheme just three months ago.

Typical half-assed 'journalism'.

Amtmann

Also, that rubbishy Independent article would lead one to conclude that all of those schemes were suspended with immediate effect. Not so. Every scheme will be brought to the end of its current planning stage and will then be mothballed.

spacetweek

Tremelo wrote: »

List seems dubious to me. There is no such thing as "Pallasgreen to Bansha" or
"N25 Cork south ring road upgrade". These are not official scheme names. So the question is: what's the source? And how reliable is it?

The N28 isn't on the list; yet the Dunkettle Interchange is, despite the launch of a shiny website for the scheme just three months ago.

Typical half-assed 'journalism'.

Yes "N25 Cork south ring road upgrade" is clearly wrong as this could only refer to the currently U/C scheme; the journalist should have known that. They can't be referring to Dunkettle as that's listed as an M8 scheme (technically it's an N8 scheme as the last 400 m of the M8 was not redesignated motorway in 2009).

gally74

What's the n r a doing if all this activity is stopped, typical civil service Ireland, some of these roads could go ahead if savings were found in othe areas

spadesaspade

the amount of jobs that these roads would create would be huge, what a pitty

johngalway

Sponge Bob wrote: »

N59 Clifden to Oughterard.
N59 Moycullen bypass.

Well grumble & double grumble. Came onto have a look see what was happening with the N59. Nothing I guess.

L1011

johngalway wrote: »

Well grumble & double grumble. Came onto have a look see what was happening with the N59. Nothing I guess.

The list is wildly inaccurate. Part of Ougtherard to Clifden is still to proceed this year under the 'tourist route' scheme I believe.

johngalway

Thanks MYOB, that's some good news at least. Parts of the N59 are in an awful state.

headmaster

Does anyone know what exactly is going to happen with the proposed Tuam to Claremorris motorway, if anything?

slickmcvic

What about the n11 rathnew to arklow,don't see it on the list

galwayrush

headmaster wrote: »

Does anyone know what exactly is going to happen with the proposed Tuam to Claremorris motorway, if anything?

Nothing for years i imagine.
Claregalway bypass might even get built first.:eek:

L1011

headmaster wrote: »

Does anyone know what exactly is going to happen with the proposed Tuam to Claremorris motorway, if anything?

20 years, maybe.

slickmcvic wrote: »

What about the n11 rathnew to arklow,don't see it on the list

That's going to go ahead as soon as BAM Balfour Beatty can borrow money at a sustainable price.

Sponge Bob

There never was a proposal for a Tuam to Claremorris motorway, it is proposed as a 2+2 road.

antoobrien

headmaster wrote: »

Does anyone know what exactly is going to happen with the proposed Tuam to Claremorris motorway, if anything?

Nothing it would appear. The following is taken from the NRA project page.

The Design Report, EIS and CPO documentation have been completed and progression of the scheme has currently been suspended.

The next step presumably is full planning.

headmaster

Anto,
thank you for going to the trouble of getting that information, appreciate it.

antoobrien

headmaster wrote: »

Anto,
thank you for going to the trouble of getting that information, appreciate it.

No problem, the hardest part of any part of finding things out is knowing where to look

spacetweek

MYOB wrote: »

That's going to go ahead as soon as BAM Balfour Beatty can borrow money at a sustainable price.

I saw yesterday something about (not an economist) Irish government debt getting a lower interest rate.... anyone help me here, does this type of thing make it easier for construction companies to borrow now or what?

L1011

spacetweek wrote: »

I saw yesterday something about (not an economist) Irish government debt getting a lower interest rate.... anyone help me here, does this type of thing make it easier for construction companies to borrow now or what?

Nope. Thats on our already agreed bailout loan

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/quote?ticker=GIGB10YR:IND when that goes below 6% the PPPs are probably viable. Its been on a downward trajectory for a while but its unlikely to fall much further for a while.

The N11/N7 PPP is the most viable of the lot as it includes a commercial element which is a veritable gold mine - the only online service station between Gorey and Kilmacanogue and eventually (OK, towards the end of the PPP period...) between Rosslare and Kilmacanogue. Borrowing for commercial projects in Ireland is still a lot cheaper than borrowing for state or virtual-state debt.

dubhthach

spacetweek wrote: »

I saw yesterday something about (not an economist) Irish government debt getting a lower interest rate.... anyone help me here, does this type of thing make it easier for construction companies to borrow now or what?

that's only on the "bailout", Irish 10 years bonds closed today at: 8.653%
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/quote?ticker=GIGB10YR:IND

Need that to fall abit, I think Sponge mentioned around 6% for example?