road rage towards Learner

doleman2010

Just wondered if there is an actual offence under the road traffic acts to intimitate a learner driver?
Was giving one of my kids a driving lesson ( L plates up , driving a normal family 2l car). when we approached a roundabout a clown in a 99 crappy micra that had been tailgateing us for a while ,started blowing the horn to try to force my daughter onto the roundabout which was unsafe as she was yielding to on comming traffic already on it .
shes been driving for a couple of months now under the new learner permit regime , getting RSA approved lessons and getting some road experience with myself as is required under the new regs.
the mere sight of L plates on a car seems to bring out the worst in people.
This beeping idiot in his little boy racer micra was aged in his fifties , he probably got one of those no test driving licences given out in the late 70s.

TonyStark

doleman2010 wrote: »

Just wondered if there is an actual offence under the road traffic acts to intimitate a learner driver?
Was giving one of my kids a driving lesson ( L plates up , driving a normal family 2l car). when we approached a roundabout a clown in a 99 crappy micra that had been tailgateing us for a while ,started blowing the horn to try to force my daughter onto the roundabout which was unsafe as she was yielding to on comming traffic already on it .
shes been driving for a couple of months now under the new learner permit regime , getting RSA approved lessons and getting some road experience with myself as is required under the new regs.
the mere sight of L plates on a car seems to bring out the worst in people.
This beeping idiot in his little boy racer micra was aged in his fifties , he probably got one of those no test driving licences given out in the late 70s.

You should have reported him to the guards. I really hate idiots like that on the roads. Everyone has to learn sometime!

I think the offence is inconsiderate driving. I may be mistaken!

doleman2010

I was speaking to a driving instructor re this and he gets unreal hassle from these idiots,
not many gosafe vans of traffic gadai at junctions and roundabouts.
I rekon these clowns never learned to drive anyway,

softmee

I've had encounter with <SNIP> like this at least twice and it put me off driving for almost a month.
Even if you would be able to take reg.number ad report to Guards, I doubt they would do much about it.
Best think to do is to ignore them and dont let upset you too much. I know its only easy to say, but just tell your kid he/she does everything right and they are igorants.
(once I almost stepped out of car to talk to somebody behind me -it was middle aged woman beepig at me like mad - and there was no way I could drive -was too busy!)
<SNIP>

Mister Jingles

Yep I do think that other drivers are more aggressive towards L drivers, I get the usual tailgating (even when I do speed), people overtaking me at junctions, cutting me off and what not. What is amazing though is when I'm not driving and the L plates are left up others still show the same aggression to my Da who has being driving nearly 20 years now.

My outlook is that you could be a highly trained police driver or what ever with L plates displayed and still get the same ****e as mentioned above.

dambarude

Sounds terrible OP. I've been lucky that I haven't encountered this, if anything I've found other drivers to be extra patient.

matt70iu

Have to agree with other posters. When you take those L plates down, that sort of behavior doesn't stop. I've had my full license a few months and a couple of days ago had a spanner in a beamer beep me at a T junction when it wasn't safe to move out.

He overtakes, pulls in front of me, blocks my view and pulls off causing traffic with right of way to slow down. Got a nice close up of his reg and reported him.
My report alone won't make a difference, but with that sort of driving I won't be the first or last to do it.

I would report them. Even if you feel the Gardai will do little. DOn't loose your temper or let them rattle you. They are the ones with the problem, not the learner.

Hope your son/daughter's not put off by these egits!

Best of luck!

MascotDec85

doleman2010 wrote: »

Just wondered if there is an actual offence under the road traffic acts to intimitate a learner driver?
Was giving one of my kids a driving lesson ( L plates up , driving a normal family 2l car). when we approached a roundabout a clown in a 99 crappy micra that had been tailgateing us for a while ,started blowing the horn to try to force my daughter onto the roundabout which was unsafe as she was yielding to on comming traffic already on it .
shes been driving for a couple of months now under the new learner permit regime , getting RSA approved lessons and getting some road experience with myself as is required under the new regs.
the mere sight of L plates on a car seems to bring out the worst in people.
This beeping idiot in his little boy racer micra was aged in his fifties , he probably got one of those no test driving licences given out in the late 70s.

This didn't happen around Navan did it?

280special

Dont think that is L drivers that cause these idiots to lose their heads.

A couple of days ago, pulled out at our crossroad, had noticed a car but knew he was well back up the road, suffice to say it took him about a half mile to actually catch up with me. Then this aged, somewhere in his 60's, fool started beeping his horn, flashing lights...so i slowed down in case there was something wrong with my car....he then starts shaking his fist and making various gestures with his fingers. The guy who was behind him pulled up alongside me a bit further down the road and gave a fairly obvious visual accessment the guy's mental state.

And no i havent been an L driver for 30+ years , so i aint no spring chicken !

Del2005

doleman2010 wrote: »

I was speaking to a driving instructor re this and he gets unreal hassle from these idiots,
not many gosafe vans of traffic gadai at junctions and roundabouts.
I rekon these clowns never learned to drive anyway,

Point to note, GoSafe vans will do nothing about road rage or any other bad/dangerous driving. All they can do is take pictures of fish in a barrel people exceeding the posted speed limit.


OP, you can report these drivers to Traffic Watch. You will need to follow up with a statement in a Garda station and be willing to go to court to actually get anything done.

But as the others have said, it's not just learners who get hassle. They just panic thinking they've done something wrong. Me I ignore them unless I know I've actually done something wrong

jendafer1

At my local test centre (Raheny) theres a stop sign on the road but its a very quiet junction so a yield would suffice. Anyway, on a pre-test with my instructor I stopped at said stop sign (the law is the law) and a taxi man behind me beeped and shook his fist and got very angry altogether! I was only stopped for about 1 second, and went off again straight away!
Thought it was funny though that by following the rules of the road, I was getting abused!

flutered

across the enterance to two disabled parking spaces was pulled a toyota preveda, the driver had a cigarette in one hand a mobile in the other, i was waiting to get access to one of them, nothing doing so i gave a light blow of the hooter, a little later it pulled off allowing me access, a few minutes later with the window down day dreaming, the woman driver of the toyota demanded to see my disabled parking permit, taken unawares i said its on the windscreen, then i asked what does it matter to you, i thought that you had not got one she says, then muttered sorry and walks away, what was she thinking, was she of the opinion that she could block access and when i entered she required proof that i had a permit.

Mister Jingles

flutered wrote: »

across the enterance to two disabled parking spaces was pulled a toyota preveda, the driver had a cigarette in one hand a mobile in the other, i was waiting to get access to one of them, nothing doing so i gave a light blow of the hooter, a little later it pulled off allowing me access, a few minutes later with the window down day dreaming, the woman driver of the toyota demanded to see my disabled parking permit, taken unawares i said its on the windscreen, then i asked what does it matter to you, i thought that you had not got one she says, then muttered sorry and walks away, what was she thinking, was she of the opinion that she could block access and when i entered she required proof that i had a permit.

Would of told her to <SNIP> and be more concerned about her bad parking habits. :mad:

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Mister Jingles

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Apologies.

**Timbuk2**

Don't get caught up too much by intimidating drivers - there's a lot of them out there, and they often get 'annoyed' irrationally at learners, but learn to ignore them unless you are actually doing something wrong.

Imagine your driving instructor was in the passenger seat (as opposed to your parent, friend, etc., whoever your accompanying driver is) - (s)he'd just tell you to relax and don't speed up to accommodate the person behind you.

Make sure not to speed up to a speed where you feel unsafe. I think you should be making reasonable progress, and often that means doing the speed limit, but if you are doing the speed limit and the person behind you thinks you should be going faster, and is even tailgating you, don't speed up to suit him/her. If a person is tailgating you, they are travelling too close for safety, and if you speed up, they will speed up, but it's very possible they will keep the same gap, and the faster you go, the less safe this is.

But some drivers just drive crazily and they might do it to everyone, regardless of whether you are a learner or not (learners just have a tendency to think that it must be their fault). So just ignore them, it's easier!

Latatian

It's funny, when someone's tailgating I start thinking about safe stopping distances. I know that most of 'em won't stop even if I do the speed limit (or at least no-one has stopped tailgating me thus far for it), so I tend to slow down instead. Mostly out of panic, partly because that way if they plough into me we might survive.

What's the point of tailgating? I never understand what it is they want me to do. Is it just so that I'll get caught by the speed camera, and they won't?

Del2005

Latatian wrote: »

It's funny, when someone's tailgating I start thinking about safe stopping distances. I know that most of 'em won't stop even if I do the speed limit (or at least no-one has stopped tailgating me thus far for it), so I tend to slow down instead. Mostly out of panic, partly because that way if they plough into me we might survive.

Slowing down is the correct procedure for tailgaters. Since they don't have enough stopping distance you need to do all you can to protect yourself in case of emergency.

What's the point of tailgating? I never understand what it is they want me to do. Is it just so that I'll get caught by the speed camera, and they won't?

Ignorance.

zenno

learner drivers don't bother me at all, I always give them enough space and let them take their time and it doesn't bother me in the least. we all had to learn to drive and i know what it's like thats why i never beep or bother them, but the difference is I have a lot of patience as most other idiots out there think they own the road and they are the ones that usually cause damage or crashes imo. just ignore them o.p and don't let them get to any of you.

challengemaster

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

Don't get caught up too much by intimidating drivers - there's a lot of them out there, and they often get 'annoyed' irrationally at learners, but learn to ignore them unless you are actually doing something wrong.

Imagine your driving instructor was in the passenger seat (as opposed to your parent, friend, etc., whoever your accompanying driver is) - (s)he'd just tell you to relax and don't speed up to accommodate the person behind you.

Make sure not to speed up to a speed where you feel unsafe. I think you should be making reasonable progress, and often that means doing the speed limit, but if you are doing the speed limit and the person behind you thinks you should be going faster, and is even tailgating you, don't speed up to suit him/her. If a person is tailgating you, they are travelling too close for safety, and if you speed up, they will speed up, but it's very possible they will keep the same gap, and the faster you go, the less safe this is.

But some drivers just drive crazily and they might do it to everyone, regardless of whether you are a learner or not (learners just have a tendency to think that it must be their fault). So just ignore them, it's easier!

Good advice, but there's always an exemption..

For example, I came up behind a learner driver lastnight that was doing 40km/h on a 100km/h stretch of road ...(and it's not an improperly signposted limit either - it's a 100km/h road) pure taking the mickey like. It's that kind of stuff that causes accidents, and anyone beeping was well warrented tbh.

Del2005

challengemaster wrote: »

Good advice, but there's always an exemption..

For example, I came up behind a learner driver lastnight that was doing 40km/h on a 100km/h stretch of road ...(and it's not an improperly signposted limit either - it's a 100km/h road) pure taking the mickey like. It's that kind of stuff that causes accidents,

Doesn't mater what speed the learner was doing,you should always be able to stop safely in the distance you can see on your own side of the road. There are plenty of vehicles/people/animals on N roads that can't do 40km/h never mind 100km/h.

challengemaster wrote: »

and anyone beeping was well warrented tbh.

Use of the horn is only warranted to warn others of your presence to avoid an accident.

challengemaster

Del2005 wrote: »

Doesn't mater what speed the learner was doing,you should always be able to stop safely in the distance you can see on your own side of the road. There are plenty of vehicles/people/animals on N roads that can't do 40km/h never mind 100km/h.

Yes it does matter, because it's absolutely dangerous driving, nothing short of.

And I never said anything about me not being able to stop?

Sala

When I was learning with my L plates up I got a lot of hassle. Fair enough, I stalled a bit etc but some people are real d**ks. I drove to work one day with my mother, who took the car home and she got cut off and beeped at by a group of young fellas who obviously thought she was the learner.

The best you can do is relax and ignore them, although that's easier said than done. It's preparing her for life on the road on her own where obnoxious drivers everywhere! Check out Dara O'Briain's comedy piece on learning to drive - it'll make you smile;)

**Timbuk2**

challengemaster wrote: »

Good advice, but there's always an exemption..

For example, I came up behind a learner driver lastnight that was doing 40km/h on a 100km/h stretch of road ...(and it's not an improperly signposted limit either - it's a 100km/h road) pure taking the mickey like. It's that kind of stuff that causes accidents, and anyone beeping was well warrented tbh.

Ah no, I was more talking about learners feeling more comfortable at 90km/h instead of the speed limit of 100km/h, for example. Somebody going 40km/h on a 100km/h road is a moving hazard - that's seriously dangerous!

tfitzgerald

If i see a learner driver in front of me I do my best to give them a break we all had to learn at some time and so what if they delay me it's only going to be a few minutes . Now tractors on the road are a different matter being stuck behind one of those for 10miles makes my blood boil.

seachto7

OP, I wouldn't worry about it too much. These things are going to happen, and it's not reacting to them is the key thing. Don't get mad. Don't get road rage.This still happens me and it's a good while since I passed the test.
A
s my mother would say "if they want to pass me, let them pass me". If you are tipping along at 40mph, and there's some tool right up behind you, let him or her pass, don't speed up for them, and don't pull in for them if possible. You're entitled to be on the road as much as them.

What I love to do to annoy these idiots even more, is, when they are tailgating me, I slow down even more, or else if I am going to pull in, I do it really slowly.

I'm not sure if ringing the gardai will do anything. They'll ask you if you want to report it, and then you have to go through that whole rigmarole.......

Del2005

challengemaster wrote: »

Yes it does matter, because it's absolutely dangerous driving, nothing short of.

And I never said anything about me not being able to stop?

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

Ah no, I was more talking about learners feeling more comfortable at 90km/h instead of the speed limit of 100km/h, for example. Somebody going 40km/h on a 100km/h road is a moving hazard - that's seriously dangerous!

We have no minimum speed limit on any of our roads, the only restriction is a vehicle has to be able to exceed 50km/h to drive on a motorway. There are plenty of vehicles that can't exceed 60km/h and are driven by fully licensed, not that the type of licence matters, drivers on N roads. It's up to the following driver to read the road and adjust their speed, not the lead driver to speed up or move over.

As much as I dislike people who don't drive at or near the limit it's perfectly legal and only dangerous because other drivers aren't driving correctly.

dev100

Del2005 wrote: »

Slowing down is the correct procedure for tailgaters. Since they don't have enough stopping distance you need to do all you can to protect yourself in case of emergency.



Ignorance.

I think tailgating a learner driver is dangerous but giving a learner driver advice of intentionally slowing down is bad advice because it in itself is a dangerous practice. You talk about protection for yourself, as a road user you have to be aware and have a certain amount of responsibilty for other road users also

Bobby42

I started to learn to drive about two months ago and I've had mostly positive experiences so far. Most of the time other drivers give me plenty of time and space.
The other week though I was turning left onto a major road and I was on a hill start. I was creeping forward but I was starting to roll back a bit but then a car came up right behind be and wouldn't give me an inch. It made me really nervous but other than that I haven't experienced any road rage, I'm sure I will soon though!

Del2005

dev100 wrote: »

I think tailgating a learner driver is dangerous but giving a learner driver advice of intentionally slowing down is bad advice because it in itself is a dangerous practice. You talk about protection for yourself, as a road user you have to be aware and have a certain amount of responsibilty for other road users also

If someone is too ignorant of the danger of tailgating someone then how do you reduce the risk to yourself?

I'm all for responsibility and courtesy to other road users, but if they aren't going to be responsible for themselves or me then I'll take the lesser evil of slowing down and potentially having a lower speed collision then maintain my speed and have a bigger collision.

How do you suggest you deal with tailgaters?

challengemaster

Del2005 wrote: »

As much as I dislike people who don't drive at or near the limit it's perfectly legal and only dangerous because other drivers aren't driving correctly.

You actually can't be serious...

overshoot

only one way to deal with tailgaters and that is hold your ground, especially if you are a learner, if you can safely hold your speed do so.
do not move in for these ******** it is the only way they will ever learn, is to make them see intimidation doesnt work, and im a person who will normally let anyone past on a main road, i dont see the point in keeping a faster driver behind me (if there is a great big hard shoulder next to me that is.) the faster car then lets himself be the fodder for any traffic corps cars ahead. never hurts for a wee flash of the hazzard lights to say thanks too

for slow drivers, i think its a mix, there is no lower speed limit but you will fail your driving test for failing to make progress
either way i take most of these people as the ones uncomfortable at driving and give them a break.... its the other one or 2 who sit behind him and wont overtake or leave a gap big enough for you to fit in that boil my blood, although i do believe if you start causing a big queue behind you its only manners to pull in

Del2005

challengemaster wrote: »

You actually can't be serious...

Is a tractor or cyclist dangerous?

The majority of these can't exceed 60km/h yet are perfectly legal on N roads. So what's the difference between a car is doing 60km/h and a tractor doing 60km/h on a main road?

overshoot

Del2005 wrote: »

Is a tractor or cyclist dangerous?

The majority of these can't exceed 60km/h yet are perfectly legal on N roads. So what's the difference between a car is doing 60km/h and a tractor doing 60km/h on a main road?

the tractor will usually use the hard shoulder.... if there is one

challengemaster

Del2005 wrote: »

Is a tractor or cyclist dangerous?

The majority of these can't exceed 60km/h yet are perfectly legal on N roads. So what's the difference between a car is doing 60km/h and a tractor doing 60km/h on a main road?

Yup. I don't think tractors should be allowed on roads at all tbh. Cyclists aren't so bad, you can see around them easily, and get around them easily in most situations.

Anyone driving at a ridiculously slow speed is driving dangerously and creating a hazard to other drivers - if you can't understand that....

seamus

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBxloSkObYc

The roads are full of idiots and always will be. All learners should be taught to treat car horns as informational rather than inflammatory. Let the guy go nuts, let him scream and shout. He'll die before you do.
Nobody is going to die, nothing bad will happen if you take an extra couple of seconds to move off.

It can be intimidating, but if you learn to just ignore anyone losing the plot on the roads, you'll find yourself a lot less stressed.

Del2005

challengemaster wrote: »

Anyone driving at a ridiculously slow speed is driving dangerously and creating a hazard to other drivers - if you can't understand that....

There are countless reasons why a vehicle wouldn't doing the limit on a road. If you think someone driving slowly is a hazard then you are either driving too fast for the road conditions or aren't paying enough attention.

If you hit someone from behind the vast majority of the time it's your fault. Why is this?

**Timbuk2**

Del2005 wrote: »

challengemaster wrote: »

Anyone driving at a ridiculously slow speed is driving dangerously and creating a hazard to other drivers - if you can't understand that....

There are countless reasons why a vehicle wouldn't doing the limit on a road. If you think someone driving slowly is a hazard then you are either driving too fast for the road conditions or aren't paying enough attention.

If you hit someone from behind the vast majority of the time it's your fault. Why is this?

There are times when it is safer not to do the speed limit, such as in heavy fog, ice, snow, etc., but a vehicle who is able to do the limit when it is safe to do so but yet drives significantly slower is a hazard

It means people have to overtake which is one of the most dangerous manoeuvres on single carriageways. Try merging onto a motorway behind a car doing only 60km/h and you'll see that it can be a hazard!

Del2005

Del2005 wrote: »

There are countless reasons why a vehicle wouldn't doing the limit on a road.

He said "ridiculously slow speed", not "just under the limit"

**Timbuk2** wrote:

Try merging onto a motorway behind a car doing only 60km/h and you'll see that it can be a hazard!

People trying to merge onto a 120 section of motorway by doing 50 drive me absolutely mental. How do you expect to safely merge at that speed? The lane isn't there for the scenery!

RustyNut

challengemaster wrote: »

For example, I came up behind a learner driver lastnight that was doing 40km/h on a 100km/h stretch of road ...(and it's not an improperly signposted limit either - it's a 100km/h road) pure taking the mickey like. It's that kind of stuff that causes accidents, and anyone beeping was well warrented tbh.

I would have to disagree with this comment, it's people not dealing appropriately with what they encounter on the road that causes accidents.

Learner drivers should start slowly and gradually build confidence and speed. They need to keep at a speed they are comfortable with and able to react to whatever they encounter, just like the rest of us.

If you come up behind someone and have an accident while overtaking them that's not their fault however if they allow themselves to be intimidated into driving too fast for their abilities by tailgaters or whatever and have a shunt then that is their fault.

The only place slow driving is a safety issue is on a motorway where the lower limit is 50 kph, it's up to you to deal with anything else.

It's up to the person driving to decide what is an appropriate speed to drive at as long as it's within the law, not the person behind or anyone else you just have to deal with it.

RustyNut

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

It means people have to overtake

Why do they have to overtake ?

overshoot

RustyNut wrote: »

Why do they have to overtake ?

donegal - dublin 220km
@100km/hr - 2hrs 10mins (some speed to average that but with the motorway 2.5hrs is doable)
@40km/hr - 5hrs 30mins

some of us would like to get there before we die of old age

**Timbuk2**

RustyNut wrote: »

Why do they have to overtake ?

Imagine I am behind a car, who is behind a car that is going slowly. It is much more difficult for me to overtake two cars than it is for the car in front to overtake the slow car (due to the extra space required). Often the car who sits behind and refuses to overtake can be just as frustrating as the car going slow.

If you absolutely won't overtake when it is safe to do so, then at least stay a good distance behind them so people who want to overtake can 'leagfrog', but this requires an extra overtaking manoeuvre - it is still safer if people overtake when it is safe to do.

RustyNut

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

Imagine I am behind a car, who is behind a car that is going slowly. It is much more difficult for me to overtake two cars than it is for the car in front to overtake the slow car (due to the extra space required). Often the car who sits behind and refuses to overtake can be just as frustrating as the car going slow.

If you absolutely won't overtake when it is safe to do so, then at least stay a good distance behind them so people who want to overtake can 'leagfrog', but this requires an extra overtaking manoeuvre - it is still safer if people overtake when it is safe to do.

The nail on the head, when its safe to do so off you go and it would be good manners on the people in front to make it as easy as possible to get passed.

RustyNut

overshoot wrote: »

some of us would like to get there before we die of old age

So you over take when it's safe to do so and off ya go. Some people might not be in a hurry. Lots of places to overtake between Donegal and Sligo. This however is up to you, the driver in front is not on your timetable. They should of course make it easy for you if they can.

Del2005

bluewolf wrote: »

He said "ridiculously slow speed", not "just under the limit"


People trying to merge onto a 120 section of motorway by doing 50 drive me absolutely mental. How do you expect to safely merge at that speed? The lane isn't there for the scenery!

I never mentioned just under the limit. I said that vehicles have valid reasons for not doing the limit. They could be doing 10km/h or 80km/h it's still the drivers behind job to avoid them.

We are on a learning to drive thread about road rage to slow moving learners on N roads, motorways shouldn't enter into the discussion. But the whole motoring public really need to learn how to drive on motorways, too many threads on this to bother starting a new one.

RustyNut wrote: »

I would have to disagree with this comment, it's people not dealing appropriately with what they encounter on the road that causes accidents.

Learner drivers should start slowly and gradually build confidence and speed. They need to keep at a speed they are comfortable with and able to react to whatever they encounter, just like the rest of us.

If you come up behind someone and have an accident while overtaking them that's not their fault however if they allow themselves to be intimidated into driving too fast for their abilities by tailgaters or whatever and have a shunt then that is their fault.

The only place slow driving is a safety issue is on a motorway where the lower limit is 50 kph, it's up to you to deal with anything else.

It's up to the person driving to decide what is an appropriate speed to drive at as long as it's within the law, not the person behind or anyone else you just have to deal with it.

+1 on everything bar the motorway. It's against the law for a vehicle incapable of doing 50km/h to drive on a motorway, but we have no lower speed limit on any of our roads. So I can legally drive at 5km/h on a motorway if I was stupid enough to want to.

Personally I don't think it does a learner any good if they are brought onto an N road when they aren't confident enough to approach the limit, but then I'm not an ADI so what do I know.

RustyNut

Del2005 wrote: »

It's against the law for a vehicle incapable of doing 50km/h to drive on a motorway, but we have no lower speed limit on any of our roads. So I can legally drive at 5km/h on a motorway if I was stupid enough to want to.

Doh! your right and there are some legitimate reasons to be under 50 on the motorway eg. fully freighted truck down around the cork neck of the woods.

overshoot

RustyNut wrote: »

So you over take when it's safe to do so and off ya go. Some people might not be in a hurry. Lots of places to overtake between Donegal and Sligo. This however is up to you, the driver in front is not on your timetable. They should of course make it easy for you if they can.

sligo is 40miles longer, people go that way but i think its a bad idea, enniskillen, cavan for me. i was just replying to the point of why people have to overtake.
i dont care how mad the guy makes me i wont move if i cant see a big enough gap. another reason for using my way, far less traffic, i dont care if the sligo road is better, with the traffic and amount who dont pull in it actually takes longer without the distance added on. (and actually after leitrim there are bugger all places to overtake safely between donegal and sligo)

RustyNut

overshoot wrote: »

sligo is 40miles longer, people go that way but i think its a bad idea, enniskillen, cavan for me. i was just replying to the point of why people have to overtake.
i dont care how mad the guy makes me i wont move if i cant see a big enough gap. another reason for using my way, far less traffic, i dont care if the sligo road is better, with the traffic and amount who dont pull in it actually takes longer without the distance added on. (and actually after leitrim there are bugger all places to overtake safely between donegal and sligo)

The point is you don't ever have to over take, there is nothing wrong with overtaking but the person in front is not forcing you to overtake.

See what the judge says if it goes wrong and you tell him I had to overtake.

It's a bit of a pedantic point but it's a learners forum and it's just wrong to be making people feel they should be driving faster than they are comfortable or capable of doing safely.

overshoot

yea point taken,

it's just wrong to be making people feel they should be driving faster than they are comfortable or capable of doing safely.

and thats well put, id never sit close enough to the back of someone to make them feel uncomfortable and the people who do are more of a scourge than the slow drivers