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Climate Change: The Megathread - Read Post #1 before posting

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  • dolanbaker wrote: »
    Sorting out the environment (or should I say slowing its destruction down) is a polar opposite of the aims of our financial "masters of the universe!" ensuring continual growth is non-negotiable.
    I'm not sure that's the issue it was anymore though:
    Decoupling of global emissions and economic growth confirmed

    Global energy-related carbon dioxide emissions (CO2) – the largest source of man-made greenhouse gas emissions – stayed flat for the second year in a row, according to analysis of preliminary data for 2015 released today by the International Energy Agency (IEA).

    “The new figures confirm last year’s surprising but welcome news: we now have seen two straight years of greenhouse gas emissions decoupling from economic growth,” said IEA Executive Director Fatih Birol.
    https://www.iea.org/newsroomandevents/pressreleases/2016/march/decoupling-of-global-emissions-and-economic-growth-confirmed.html




  • djpbarry wrote: »

    im very very wary of info from think tanks. a lot of s*ite out there. i think the implementation of economic systems and theories such as neoliberalism and neoclassical theory are having detrimental effects to this planet. we re doing incredible damage to the planet with such systems. we have to come up with better systems and fast




  • djpbarry wrote: »
    That growth is largely in financial activity, moving money from one bank account to another as opposed to actually making stuff.
    The limits to growth have taken care of the acceleration in the growth of industrial activity, but growth has to be maintained at all costs.

    Growth is being maintained, but virtually rather than materially.
    Referring to decoupling, is a way of distraction from the continued environmental destruction that is going on.




  • this documentary was aired on bbc during the week, pollution on the ganges and its catchment. may interest some here. very upsetting to watch actually.





  • Wanderer78 wrote: »
    im very very wary of info from think tanks.
    The IEA is an intergovernmental organisation, not a think tank.


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  • dolanbaker wrote: »
    That growth is largely in financial activity, moving money from one bank account to another as opposed to actually making stuff.
    All economic growth in recent years has been in the financial sector? Really?




  • djpbarry wrote: »
    All economic growth in recent years has been in the financial sector? Really?

    a lot of it has been as we gradually financialise our economies. if you think the industrial revolution has done great damage to our environment, wait till you see what this does




  • djpbarry wrote: »
    All economic growth in recent years has been in the financial sector? Really?
    I didn't say ALL, but just think about what has happened in recent years.

    For example, privatisation, the process of splitting a large state organisation which has only one revenue stream, i.e. direct funding via taxation, into multiple financial transactions between the sliced & diced entities that exist now.

    All those individual financial transactions are "growth" producers. A good example is the company that hires the track maintenance equipment to the sub contractor who maintains the railway network.




  • dolanbaker wrote: »
    For example, privatisation, the process of splitting a large state organisation which has only one revenue stream, i.e. direct funding via taxation, into multiple financial transactions between the sliced & diced entities that exist now.

    All those individual financial transactions are "growth" producers. A good example is the company that hires the track maintenance equipment to the sub contractor who maintains the railway network.
    But that's hardly a recent development?

    Anyway, this is getting a bit off-topic - let's leave it there.




  • For the first time apparently there's been a jet stream shift in the last couple of days. It's more than a little frightening what the consequences of this are.

    It's quite unprecedented for the jet stream to cross the equator. It pretty much ends seasonality.



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  • For the first time apparently there's been a jet stream shift in the last couple of days. It's more than a little frightening what the consequences of this are.

    It's quite unprecedented for the jet stream to cross the equator. It pretty much ends seasonality.


    This story will be used for years by deniers as proof that people who believe that global warming is a serious threat are 'alarmists'

    :(

    The Jet stream does occasionally leak into the other hemisphere. It's not common, but neither is it unprecedented.

    Add to this the other comments in the video that suggest that ocean currents are breaking down and we have a well intentioned advocate overstepping the boundaries of his own expertise.

    There is no solid equatorial barrier that separates the northern and southern hemispheres that has been breached. This is just the (already worrying) phenomena of meandering jet-streams that well informed people already know about.

    Climate scientists already warn about the dangers of disruption to atmospheric and oceanic currents due to the melting of the ice caps, and this threat is real and extremely alarming, but premature distortions of the science like the one above don't do anyone any favours.




  • Last month was the hottest June on record. That makes it fourteen record-breaking months in a row:

    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/hottest-ever-june-sees-14th-month-of-record-temperatures-1.2728221




  • Hottest since 1880, lol, hmmm that's not much of a record though in Earth's existence really. It makes good headlines though if you like that sort of thing.




  • Mad_Lad wrote: »
    Hottest since 1880, lol, hmmm that's not much of a record though in Earth's existence really. It makes good headlines though if you like that sort of thing.

    I'm not sure I agree with your sentiment here

    What do you mean by 'that sort of thing'?




  • BryanF wrote: »
    I'm not sure I agree with your sentiment here

    What do you mean by 'that sort of thing'?

    Sensational headlines. The media love it.

    I remember the time they said in 2000 or so that our Children would not know what snow was , actually from the British Independent which was deleted but can still be found. How do I know it was deleted ? because I kept the bookmark.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/snowfalls-are-now-just-a-thing-of-the-past-724017.html

    That was a claim from Dr David Viner, senior research scientist at the climatic research unit of the University of East Anglia and the Media jumped all over it with massive heading. That's what I'm talking about "that sort of thing" And there's no shortage of them either.




  • Mad_Lad wrote: »
    Sensational headlines.

    Thats a fine example of revisionism you've caught there :D

    That was when they were still selling "global warming"
    Before they had to climb down a bit and rebrand it as anthropogenic climate change.

    Is the climate changing?
    of course

    Are we causing it?
    probably

    Can we stop it?
    probably not

    Is our best course of action to make plans for food and water security?
    definitely
    Will it happen ?
    no

    Why ?

    Because of:
    1. ISIL (Daesh, ISIS, insert next one here)
    2. Democracy (Such as it is)
    3. The Economy, Stupid !
    4. Poverty
    5. Human nature (we are just bald monkeys really)
    6. Pokemon Go !
    7. Netflix
    8. Facebook
    9. Twink
    10. Enda Kenny
    11. Michael Noonan
    12. The entire Healy Rae Dynashty
    13. The Rothschild Banking System (IMF)
    14. The EU
    15. THe US
    16. Russia
    17. CHina
    18. INdia
    19. Brazil
    20. Ebola
    21. Zika
    22. Consumerism
    23. corporate interests
    24. Lobbyists
    25. Greed
    26. stupidity
    27. Time (this is probably the most important factor)
    28. Everyone on the planet's desire and expectation that a "modern" western lifestyle is achievable, sustainable or even remotely
    29. Depression
    30. Fear
    31. Anxiety
    32. Star Wars
    33. Meat Eating
    34. Cars
    35. Holidays
    36. Every other distraction or selfish goal that we as humans will use as a daily distraction from the impending collapse of our civilization, culture, way of life and hopes for the future.
    37. I'm pretty sure you can see where this list is going
    38. Rupert Murdoch
    39. Trident
    40. Brexit
    41. Richard Bransons (his spin and sales pitch was terrific though)
    42. Al Gore
    43. every US president since about McKinley
    44. The Queen of England
    45. I'm gonna stop now. Massively TLDR;
    46. There is hope out there. Seek it, Find it.
    47. If you can't find it, seek inner peace. it tastes the same anyway :)

    My sincere apple logies for the rambling tinfoil hat post. my overtired attempt at putting pith and humor in the same place.

    Oh, and Twitter. them too :rolleyes:




  • I would edit the post above and add Apathy*, but I can't be bothered.

    * in reality, possibly the top answer.




  • Thats a fine example of revisionism you've caught there :D

    That was when they were still selling "global warming"
    Before they had to climb down a bit and rebrand it as anthropogenic climate change.
    Eh, the IPCC was founded in 1988 and the term climate change was used long before that.

    Climate change and global warming are interchangable. Global warming is causing climate change.

    The anthropogenic part is included to avoid the inevitable denialist hijacking of every single discussion to say 'climate changes naturally blah blah'

    Everyone knows that climate changes naturally, AGW or Climate change is not about the natural changes, it's only about the changes humans are causing to the global climate. (which are real and potentially catastrophic)




  • Well if people are that worried about Co2 why not for instance push the Government to replant our forest ? Not pine crap but real forest. Trees and plants love the stuff.

    Ireland is one of the if not "the" most most deforested land on the European continent due to our severe over farming.

    People are not as concerned about chemicals and air pollution we endure daily as they are about the possibility of a warmer earth.




  • Mad_Lad wrote: »
    Hottest since 1880, lol, hmmm that's not much of a record though in Earth's existence really.
    Which is probably why it was not reported as such.
    Mad_Lad wrote: »
    Sensational headlines. The media love it.
    Indeed they do. Scientists tend to be less keen.
    Mad_Lad wrote: »
    I remember the time they said in 2000 or so that our Children would not know what snow was , actually from the British Independent which was deleted but can still be found. How do I know it was deleted ? because I kept the bookmark.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/snowfalls-are-now-just-a-thing-of-the-past-724017.html

    That was a claim from Dr David Viner, senior research scientist at the climatic research unit of the University of East Anglia and the Media jumped all over it with massive heading. That's what I'm talking about "that sort of thing" And there's no shortage of them either.
    What he actually said was “Children just aren’t going to know what snow is” – you added the word “our”, which makes a big difference.

    As an aside, there’s also often a big difference between science and what the media report as science.
    Mad_Lad wrote: »
    Well if people are that worried about Co2…
    They’re not – that’s kind of the problem.


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  • As an aside, there’s also often a big difference between science and what the media report as science.

    I can't seem to quote using the button for some reason.

    But that is a problem. Science journalists are often well-meaning, but underinformed. And they are under pressure for headlines that will catch attention. Too often the order of importance is eye-catching headline first and the science second. It is hardly surprising that people that don't want to, don't have time to or don't have the interest doing their own research from primary sources either swallow it wholesale or else see too many sensational headlines come to nothing and end up deeply suspicious of the actual science rather than its reporting.

    It's also weird that climatologists get so much trouble for the global warming/climate change issue when "climate change" was popularised by big business (oil I think, although I'd have to look it up again) as it was supposed to sound less alarming.




  • Here, Ireland is the most deforested land on the whole European continent , if we're that concerned about Co2 why don't we lobby the Government to plant actual forest ? I'm not talking that pine crap they have now for industry for to cut again in 30 years or less. real trees that benefit the land and the Irish people and the environment .




  • I think you're missing the wood for the trees there Mad_Lad

    I would love to see new native tree forestry in Ireland, I think it would be amazing for many reasons, but it's not going to make even a tiny dent in the climate change problem.

    We would be much better off focusing on preserving the forests that are currently being cut down, and moving away from fossil fuels towards renewable zero carbon or carbon neutral energy.

    There should be massive import taxes for lumber imported from the worlds rainforests. We don't need teak decking or garden furniture in Ireland. That wood would be a lot better off in Sri Lanka where it belongs.

    Global warming requires global solutions. Countries that happen to host the worlds rainforests should be getting subsidies to help them manage their forests and to make it more economically attractive to leave the forests the way they are.

    We need global action to reduce carbon emissions, so that we don't have free riders taking advantage of cheap fossil fuel energy while others are making investments in green technologies. And also to tackle the transition as many nations lose huge sources of income and wealth, global agreements are required to prevent dumping of fossil fuels as some nations try to squeeze the last income out of their reserves




  • Mad_Lad wrote: »
    Here, Ireland is the most deforested land on the whole European continent , if we're that concerned about Co2 why don't we lobby the Government to plant actual forest ? I'm not talking that pine crap they have now for industry for to cut again in 30 years or less. real trees that benefit the land and the Irish people and the environment .

    Actually, it isn't.

    It may well have been 30ish years ago but there's been a fairly hefty increase in forested land (pg 5 and 6 are good here) since Coillte was founded (1988ish).

    Unfortunately, broadleaf species are usually more expensive due to their relatively slow growth and their need for higher quality land normally already in use for agriculture. That said, there was a big increase in broadleaf planting throughout the 1990s and 2000s (nice figure on page 11 of that report).




  • In the west of Ireland there was a drive for planting trees. There seems to have been an idea to plant broadleaves around the edges where they could be seen and then softwood coniferous makes up the main part of it in the actual depths.




  • What a strange place this website is.

    The last post on climate change in this forum, which is only the most profound and compelling challenge faced by the human species, was two years ago.

    Or is there another science-focused and rational-minded forum somewhere else on Boards where people can discuss climate science, policy etc?




  • Ruhanna wrote: »
    What a strange place this website is.

    The last post on climate change in this forum, which is only the most profound and compelling challenge faced by the human species, was two years ago.

    Or is there another science-focused and rational-minded forum somewhere else on Boards where people can discuss climate science, policy etc?
    Climate change is a distraction, the real tragedy is the loss of natural habitat, loss of bio-diversity and the massive increase in human population which is displacing all other life on Earth.

    https://www.wwf.org.uk/updates/living-planet-report-2018
    Plummeting numbers of mammals, reptiles, amphibians, birds and fish around the world are an urgent sign that nature needs life support. Our Living Planet Report 2018 shows population sizes of wildlife decreased by 60% globally between 1970 and 2014.

    For the last 20 years, scientists from ZSL, WWF and other organisations, have been monitoring changes in the populations of thousands of animal species around the world. Sadly, they’ve concluded that the variety of life on Earth and wildlife populations is disappearing fast.




  • dolanbaker wrote: »
    Climate change is a distraction, the real tragedy is the loss of natural habitat, loss of bio-diversity and the massive increase in human population which is displacing all other life on Earth.

    https://www.wwf.org.uk/updates/living-planet-report-2018

    Climate change isn't a distraction, it's the worst problem facing mankind since WW2. Climate change involves widespread loss of habitat through coral bleaching, destruction of rainforests, melting of polar ice and glaciers, increases in drought and heatwaves that make it unsustainable for species to survive where they once flourished.

    There is no point in tackling the other issues unless we tackle climate change, and conversely, tackling climate change will also do a lot to improve biodiversity as some of the solutions to climate change are to reforestation and education in family planning and equality for girls in the developing world.




  • Akrasia wrote: »
    Climate change isn't a distraction, it's the worst problem facing mankind since WW2. Climate change involves widespread loss of habitat through coral bleaching, destruction of rainforests, melting of polar ice and glaciers, increases in drought and heatwaves that make it unsustainable for species to survive where they once flourished.

    There is no point in tackling the other issues unless we tackle climate change, and conversely, tackling climate change will also do a lot to improve biodiversity as some of the solutions to climate change are to reforestation and education in family planning and equality for girls in the developing world.
    Trust me, a team of men with bulldozers & chainsaws can do far more damage to the environment than any "climate change" scenario. You are looking at the issue backwards.



    Stop the human terraforming, and climate change will look after itself.
    Of course, before you can stop the expansion of human activity into the few remaining pieces of natural habitat, you would have to stop the population rising and then embark on a population reduction project.


    People don't want to face up to that stark reality, so they use "climate change" as a diversion and only tinker with the chosen indicators, like CO2.


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  • Akrasia wrote: »
    Climate change isn't a distraction, it's the worst problem facing mankind since WW2. Climate change involves widespread loss of habitat through coral bleaching, destruction of rainforests, melting of polar ice and glaciers, increases in drought and heatwaves that make it unsustainable for species to survive where they once flourished.

    There is no point in tackling the other issues unless we tackle climate change, and conversely, tackling climate change will also do a lot to improve biodiversity as some of the solutions to climate change are to reforestation and education in family planning and equality for girls in the developing world.


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    Stopping people killing each other seems like a top priority issue to me, but I can see why someone who advocates "family planning" (i.e. population control) in the third world might not care about that since the outcome is the same - less people which is the ultimate goal of the dark green elements of the environmental movement. You somehow fail to notice that people are dying because of man made global warfare while the number of people being killed by weather events an natural disasters has declined over the last century.


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