Refs take sides in uneven contests

gearoidc

On Saturday the free count was Tyrone 35 Dublin 12.

Even allowing for the fact that the Dubs committed some cynical fouls, that is a bizarre statistic considering the Dubs had about 60% of the possession.
Do the maths and you'll discover that Tyrone were almost 5 times more likely to get a free than Dublin.

Earlier this year Limerick got about 10 more frees than Kerry despite being played off the pitch.

These are not aberrations. It is common in one-sided matches and explains a lot of the "comebacks" we get in GAA matches.

Brian Cody said he was baffled by the amount of frees Waterford got yesterday.

From the Examiner.....
Cody couldn’t help thinking Kilkenny had done it with little or no help from referee Barry Kelly.

For over 70 minutes, the Cats were awarded just six frees compared to Waterford’s 14. It left Cody bemused.

"How many were Waterford awarded?" asked Cody before being told they were given 14.

"It sounded like that, it felt like that on the sideline. It’s baffling. Baffling."

A few more...

Wexford got close to Dublin this year.
Free count was 25-11 to Wexford.

Cork annihilated Down
Free count 18-16 Down.

Waterford were destroyed by Tipp a few weeks back.
Free count was 20-6 to Waterford.

Cork hammered Mayo in 2010
Free count was 27-24 Cork

London beat Fermanagh 0-15 to 0-10.
Free count was 35-23 to Fermanagh.

The fact of the matter is that the final free count almost never reflects the score on the board.

dcr22B

gearoidc wrote: »

On Saturday the free count was Tyrone 35 Dublin 12.

Even allowing for the fact that the Dubs committed some cynical fouls, that is a bizarre statistic considering the Dubs had about 60% of the possession.
Do the maths and you'll discover that Tyrone were almost 5 times more likely to get a free than Dublin.

Pretty much every 50/50 call went Tyrone's way on Saturday night. At one stage it got so ridiculous that the Tyrone fans around me were laughing at some of the calls, they were so ludicrous.

Mountainlad

I don't see how Cody can complain. They got a free before half time where Power pulled Brick down, yet the ref gave it to Kikenny. Handy point. I really don't think the referee gave either team an unfair advantage. He missed several things, it's his form to be slow to call the full backs holding players but I don't believe that Kilkenny did any less fouling then Waterford.

To be honest I think his complaints are more of a sign of his frustration with Kilkenny's performance. When has he ever given out about a ref before?

I did think watching the Dublin Tyrone game that Tyrone got a few more decisions, but probably not as many as people might make out. Also, while it evened out with the free the Tyrone forward got holding the arm in, Justin McMahon should have been awarded the free that Brogan was given in the first half.

Syferus

Dublin were way more aggressive and challenged high up the field in alot of cases so that statistic isn't as unbelievable as it may seem at first because Dublin harassed Tyrone every time they did have the ball. And one game does mean 'refs take sides in uneven contests'!

Mountainlad

Syferus wrote: »

Dublin were way more aggressive and challenged high up the field in alot of cases so that statistic isn't as unbelievable as it may seem at first because Dublin harassed Tyrone every time they did have the ball. And one game does mean 'refs take sides in uneven contests'!

Agreed. Op, you'd be better served to analyse the fouls rather than the statistics. And your thrid game reference, the Kilkenny v Waterford game, seems purely based on what the manager of one team said. You can hardly base your opinion on that?

gearoidc

A few more...

Wexford got close to Dublin this year.
Free count was 25-11 to Wexford.

Cork annihilated Down
Free count 18-16 Down.

Waterford were destroyed by Tipp a few weeks back.
Free count was 20-6 to Waterford.

The fact of the matter is that the final free count almost never reflects the score on the board.

Before you lazily contradict me by suggesting I'm basing my opinions on one match or one manager's comments, do a small bit of fact-finding first.

I've been seeing this for years.

gearoidc

Mountainlad wrote: »

Agreed. Op, you'd be better served to analyse the fouls rather than the statistics. And your thrid game reference, the Kilkenny v Waterford game, seems purely based on what the manager of one team said. You can hardly base your opinion on that?

From the Indo...
"Ref watch
Barry Kelly awarded 14 frees to Waterford and six to Kilkenny, while the booking count read: Kilkenny 5, Waterford 2. The reasons for such a differential on either front weren't readily apparent."

Apart from the final score the Cats hit 17 wides, Waterford had only 9.
The facts of the match speak for themselves. KK were totally on top but somehow got less than half the frees Waterford got.

And how do you suggest I go about "analysing fouls"???
I'm intrigued...

Mountainlad

gearoidc wrote: »

From the Indo...
"Ref watch
Barry Kelly awarded 14 frees to Waterford and six to Kilkenny, while the booking count read: Kilkenny 5, Waterford 2. The reasons for such a differential on either front weren't readily apparent."

Apart from the final score the Cats hit 17 wides, Waterford had only 9.
The facts of the match speak for themselves. KK were totally on top but somehow got less than half the frees Waterford got.

Frees aren't awarded based on your level of performance. Did you watch the game yesterday just as a matter of interest? I'm gonna watch the game back laster, and I'll make note of the frees and how many were correctly awarded. If you have a gripe with any actual decisions let me know and I'll give you my view on them.

Professey Chin

gearoidc wrote: »

And how do you suggest I go about "analysing fouls"???
I'm intrigued...

By looking at the game and seeing if the ones given were valid or not?
A lot of advantage was played yesterday too

Mountainlad

gearoidc wrote: »

From the Indo...
"Ref watch
Barry Kelly awarded 14 frees to Waterford and six to Kilkenny, while the booking count read: Kilkenny 5, Waterford 2. The reasons for such a differential on either front weren't readily apparent."

Apart from the final score the Cats hit 17 wides, Waterford had only 9.
The facts of the match speak for themselves. KK were totally on top but somehow got less than half the frees Waterford got.

And how do you suggest I go about "analysing fouls"???
I'm intrigued...

Watch the game back on RTE player. Quite simple. It's amazing modern technology isn't it?

listermint

I would have to agree with the OP, many a game ive been to and the refs to have a tendency to err on the side of the underdogs if they are being trashed. It leaves an open path to allow them back into the game.

Looks like trying to make a contest of it.

gearoidc

Mountainlad wrote: »

Watch the game back on RTE player. Quite simple. It's amazing modern technology isn't it?

I see you didn't understand the question. No matter.

Rather than do the impossible and analyse every tug and push and strike and over-carry in the match, I'll take the (presumably) unbiased opinion of the reporter on this one thanks. I've seen more than enough matches and match stats over the years to know there is unbalanced refereeing in one-sided matches without wasting my time watching that rubbish again.

Unlike your good self, I wouldn't make assumptions on the basis of one match and I've spoonfed you some recent glaring examples to support my point of view. Here's another for you (from 2008). Open up now.....

Wexford 15 pts Laois 10 pts in a match that Laois manager conceded they were beaten all over the pitch.
Free count was 29-18 to Laois.

You, so far, have nothing to offer (bar noise). Try using Guggle-it's amazing what technology can do these days.:rolleyes:

Until you have something concrete to back you up, your opinion doesn't carry much weight.

There is another point here with the free counts being so high for the losing team. Yesterday Dublin were miles ahead of their markers who never got close enough to the Dublin players to foul them. Dublin, in contrast, were all over their men every time they touched the ball making fouls possible in the first place.

Mountainlad

gearoidc wrote: »

I see you didn't understand the question. No matter.

Rather than do the impossible and analyse every tug and push and strike and over-carry in the match, I'll take the (presumably) unbiased opinion of the reporter on this one thanks. I've seen more than enough matches and match stats over the years to know there is unbalanced refereeing in one-sided matches without wasting my time watching that rubbish again.

Unlike your good self, I wouldn't make assumptions on the basis of one match and I've spoonfed you some recent glaring examples to support my point of view. Here's another for you (from 2008). Open up now.....

Wexford 15 pts Laois 10 pts in a match that Laois manager conceded they were beaten all over the pitch.
Free count was 29-18 to Laois.

You, so far, have nothing to offer (bar noise). Try using Guggle-it's amazing what technology can do these days.:rolleyes:

Until you have something concrete to back you up, your opinion doesn't carry much weight.

Wow. Just wow.

Look did you watch the match yesterday? I have no issues with the point of the thread, I think it some times does come into the equation, my problem is your reference to the Waterford/Kilkenny match because I don't think your right. I would also like to know what your actual problem is. If for example, it was the case of referees actually getting a team back into a match then ok, but you seem to be just complaining for the sake of complaining.

Just take this into consideration; when Richie Hogan got on the ball for his first goal he could have been fouled. He wasn't, he scored a goal. When Maurice Shanahan was going through late in the game, Tyrell took him out. Maybe part of the reason these teams win is because they know when to foul?

premierstone

I have no time for Barry Kelly as a ref but one of the reasons that Waterford got more frees yesterday was that he actually pulled KK for tackling with the hurl around the neck, something other refs seem to be oblivious to, yes I thought he gave some very soft decisions to Waterford but the reality is the two game changing decisions if you like went in KK's favour, Hogan took about 8 steps for the first goal and TJ Reid could easily have seen a second yellow and probably should have, Cody recognised this and took him off at halftime.

J Cheever Loophole

gearoidc wrote: »

These are not aberrations. It is common in one-sided matches and explains a lot of the "comebacks" we get in GAA matches.

The most obvious example for me was us and Fermanagh in 2004. We raced into a 5-1 lead early on, and John Bannon kept Fermanagh in touch with a series of 'gimmes', in all probability because it did not seem at the time that it would matter to the result.

Enda McNulty then makes the biggest single mistake of his career and ........painful memories!!

gearoidc

Mountainlad wrote: »

Wow. Just wow.

Look did you watch the match yesterday? I have no issues with the point of the thread, I think it some times does come into the equation, my problem is your reference to the Waterford/Kilkenny match because I don't think your right. I would also like to know what your actual problem is. If for example, it was the case of referees actually getting a team back into a match then ok, but you seem to be just complaining for the sake of complaining.

Just take this into consideration; when Richie Hogan got on the ball for his first goal he could have been fouled. He wasn't, he scored a goal. When Maurice Shanahan was going through late in the game, Tyrell took him out. Maybe part of the reason these teams win is because they know when to foul?

Armagh had Wicklow beaten earlier this year. Wicklow fought back and got a draw with the help of a free count of 30-13.

I've given numerous examples and you just want to obsess about yesterday's match.

Refs being unable to remain unbiased in matches is a massive deal.

Lemlin

To be honest I thought Joe went easier on Dublin and gave them frees where he could. For example, one of the McMahons caught a clean ball and went to run out of defence with it, and he blew to give a free to Dublin.

McQuillian may be a fellow Cavan man but he's a useless referee. Bring back Brian Crowe.

run_Forrest_run

premierstone wrote: »

I have no time for Barry Kelly as a ref but one of the reasons that Waterford got more frees yesterday was that he actually pulled KK for tackling with the hurl around the neck, something other refs seem to be oblivious to, yes I thought he gave some very soft decisions to Waterford but the reality is the two game changing decisions if you like went in KK's favour, Hogan took about 8 steps for the first goal and TJ Reid could easily have seen a second yellow and probably should have, Cody recognised this and took him off at halftime.

Cody took TJ off because he was playing shíte.

This hurley around the neck thing is in the spotlight lately, and for good reason because it can be a nasty tackle/foul. However I also feel some players play to it and tend to drop the head a bit in an attempt to get tangled up and hit the deck, instant free and possible yellow card.

johnmcdnl

maybe teams win so easily because they foul so much :pac:

maybe they foul more because the second the other team gets the ball they fight and fight to get it back and have far more hunger to get it back... but naturally mistakes happen...


when a game is over it's natural the referee will err on the side of team that's loosing to try to help avoid a complete wishwash.... no one likes to see a team loose by 20 points or something like in fairness

Martin567

premierstone wrote: »

I have no time for Barry Kelly as a ref but one of the reasons that Waterford got more frees yesterday was that he actually pulled KK for tackling with the hurl around the neck, something other refs seem to be oblivious to, yes I thought he gave some very soft decisions to Waterford but the reality is the two game changing decisions if you like went in KK's favour, Hogan took about 8 steps for the first goal and TJ Reid could easily have seen a second yellow and probably should have, Cody recognised this and took him off at halftime.

Kilkenny's main problem with the ref yesterday was that we weren't awarded frees for the same incidents we were being penalised for. The reason Waterford were awarded more frees yesterday wasn't anything to do with Kilkenny's tackling, it was simply that Kilkenny were hardly awarded any frees at all. Either let the game flow or blow for everything but at least do the same for both sides. Kilkenny were denied four of the most blatant frees you will ever see in the first 25 minutes of the game. All were within 40 yards of the Waterford goal. The worst was when either Walsh or Browne climbed on Shefflin's back as he ran through and hauled him down only for the ref to incredibly wave play on.

dcr22B

Lemlin wrote: »

To be honest I thought Joe went easier on Dublin and gave them frees where he could. For example, one of the McMahons caught a clean ball and went to run out of defence with it, and he blew to give a free to Dublin.

Disagree vehemently on the first part but agree 100% on the 2nd part.

Bernard had fouled Joe before the arm was grabbed but some of the decisions given to Tyrone bordered on the ridiculous especially the blatant push in the back on Barry Cahill who was subsequently blown up for touching the ball on the ground :rolleyes:

My fear is that McQuillan could get the AI final IF we get through and that would truly be the stuff of nightmares after Saturday night's "performance"

It'll be interesting to see how takes charge of the semi final, as long as it's not a Leinster or Ulster ref I'll be happy.

gearoidc

Martin567 wrote: »

Kilkenny's main problem with the ref yesterday was that we weren't awarded frees for the same incidents we were being penalised for. The reason Waterford were awarded more frees yesterday wasn't anything to do with Kilkenny's tackling, it was simply that Kilkenny were hardly awarded any frees at all. Either let the game flow or blow for everything but at least do the same for both sides. Kilkenny were denied four of the most blatant frees you will ever see in the first 25 minutes of the game. All were within 40 yards of the Waterford goal. The worst was when either Walsh or Browne climbed on Shefflin's back as he ran through and hauled him down only for the ref to incredibly wave play on.

Yep. That's it in a nutshell.
If Waterford had snatched a few late goals we'd be hearing about "The Comeback" for the next 30 years and not a mention of the fact that KK would have been out of sight if the ref had done his job.

adrian522

premierstone wrote: »

I have no time for Barry Kelly as a ref but one of the reasons that Waterford got more frees yesterday was that he actually pulled KK for tackling with the hurl around the neck, something other refs seem to be oblivious to, yes I thought he gave some very soft decisions to Waterford but the reality is the two game changing decisions if you like went in KK's favour, Hogan took about 8 steps for the first goal and TJ Reid could easily have seen a second yellow and probably should have, Cody recognised this and took him off at halftime.

I thought it was a bit DJ Careyesque all right ...


I think a second yellow for TJ would have been harsh but I still haven't watched the game back...

Martin567

adrian522 wrote: »

I thought it was a bit DJ Careyesque all right ...


I think a second yellow for TJ would have been harsh but I still haven't watched the game back...

If you both think he took eight steps, you obviously missed him tapping the ball on the hurl in the middle of the run.

premierstone

adrian522 wrote: »

I thought it was a bit DJ Careyesque all right ...


I think a second yellow for TJ would have been harsh but I still haven't watched the game back...

I agree it would have been somewhat harsh but he could easily have, and I was just pointing out that if the ref was been as biased towards Waterford as the OP suggested surely he would have sent him off??

The Dublin Tyrone game has been given as an example aswell, but how about looking at it from the otherside that Dublin gave away 35 frees, thats one every 2 minutes yet only had two players cautioned persistent fouling how are you!

The fact of the matter is that the team who wins is generally the more determined, hungrier and fired up team and in the modern game that all equates to more physical, the con of this approach is you will enivitably concede more frees, but you will also win nearly all the 50/50, hard, dirty ball that is vital.

premierstone

Martin567 wrote: »

If you both think he took eight steps, you obviously missed him tapping the ball on the hurl in the middle of the run.

I have'nt watched it again, once really was enough, but I'll take your word for it, my first impression was he had overcarried before that tap on the hurl very similar to Eoin Kelly's goal against Cork earlier in the year.

dcr22B

premierstone wrote: »

The Dublin Tyrone game has been given as an example aswell, but how about looking at it from the otherside that Dublin gave away 35 frees, thats one every 2 minutes yet only had two players cautioned persistent fouling how are you!

The more glaring statistic is how many of the frees were 50/50 and how they always seemed to go to Tyrone. If anything the free count should have been more Dublin 25 conceded, Tyrone 20 conceded but that was never gonna happen with the agenda that McQuillan had on Saturday night.

gearoidc

premierstone wrote: »

The fact of the matter is that the team who wins is generally the more determined, hungrier and fired up team and in the modern game that all equates to more physical, the con of this approach is you will enivitably concede more frees, but you will also win nearly all the 50/50, hard, dirty ball that is vital.

There may be some truth in that but there is no doubt whatsoever that a team will win frees a lot more cheaply if they are 6 points behind rather than 6 points ahead.

Trampas

I thought the ref on Sat was poor from where I was sitting.

I thought Tyrone got a good few soft frees.

Is it just me or are players with the ball running into even jumping into players and looking for a free.

DH2K9

gearoidc wrote: »

On Saturday the free count was Tyrone 35 Dublin 12.

Even allowing for the fact that the Dubs committed some cynical fouls, that is a bizarre statistic considering the Dubs had about 60% of the possession.
Do the maths and you'll discover that Tyrone were almost 5 times more likely to get a free than Dublin.

Earlier this year Limerick got about 10 more frees than Kerry despite being played off the pitch.

These are not aberrations. It is common in one-sided matches and explains a lot of the "comebacks" we get in GAA matches.

Brian Cody said he was baffled by the amount of frees Waterford got yesterday.

From the Examiner.....
Cody couldn’t help thinking Kilkenny had done it with little or no help from referee Barry Kelly.

For over 70 minutes, the Cats were awarded just six frees compared to Waterford’s 14. It left Cody bemused.

"How many were Waterford awarded?" asked Cody before being told they were given 14.

"It sounded like that, it felt like that on the sideline. It’s baffling. Baffling."

A few more...

Wexford got close to Dublin this year.
Free count was 25-11 to Wexford.

Cork annihilated Down
Free count 18-16 Down.

Waterford were destroyed by Tipp a few weeks back.
Free count was 20-6 to Waterford.

Cork hammered Mayo in 2010
Free count was 27-24 Cork

London beat Fermanagh 0-15 to 0-10.
Free count was 35-23 to Fermanagh.

The fact of the matter is that the final free count almost never reflects the score on the board.

You obviously have never refeered...

NufcNavan

Telling the referees to even out the fouls between the two teams will solve the problem. As if one teams actually fouls more than the other. That would just be stupid..

Hammer Archer

gearoid, just wondering where you get the free stats. It'd be interesting to see if there are exceptions.

gearoidc

DH2K9 wrote: »

You obviously have never refeered...

Yeah I have.(Juveniles)
Why do you say that?

gearoidc

Hammer Archer wrote: »

gearoid, just wondering where you get the free stats. It'd be interesting to see if there are exceptions.

Google "game at a glance".
They're the match stats from the Indo.
Adding a county name can help.

DH2K9

gearoidc wrote: »

Yeah I have.(Juveniles)
Why do you say that?

I somehow doubt that....

If you have you know how hard it is to referee a match. How when a certain situation comes up and if you give a free to team A then team B gives out and if you give the free to Team B then team A gives out and if you give a hop ball everybody gives out.

You obviously get too caught up with the boll*x coming out of every second Dub fan at the match. The amount of abuse (most of it personal) given at a match to the referee and the two linesman is disgraceful. You no doubt were part of that.

The ref got a couple of decisions wrong but he will never have a perfect game and no referee has EVER had a perfect game.

So let them get on without their job and you get on with yours which is supporting whichever county you're from.

Suddenly everybody thinks they're a Sunday Game analyst.........

Mountainlad

gearoidc wrote: »

Armagh had Wicklow beaten earlier this year. Wicklow fought back and got a draw with the help of a free count of 30-13.

I've given numerous examples and you just want to obsess about yesterday's match.

Refs being unable to remain unbiased in matches is a massive deal.

Most of the games you mentioned I haven't seen. Have you seen them all?

I watched back yesterday's game and came to the conclusion that Waterford were awarded 2 frees incorrectly while Kilkenny were also. There were about 4 maybe 5 blatant frees not given to Kilkenny, but there was much the same for Waterford. Also, Waterford got the same number of frees in the first half as the second. On balance maybe Kilkenny were hard done by a free or two. If that is letting a team back into the game in your view then you are wrong.

Since the only other game you mentioned that I've seen Tyrone v Dublin and that there wasn't an awful lot in that either, I can't agree with you. Therefore you'd either have to accept that those were two bad examples, or else there are certainly flaws in your argument.

Martin567 wrote: »

Kilkenny's main problem with the ref yesterday was that we weren't awarded frees for the same incidents we were being penalised for. The reason Waterford were awarded more frees yesterday wasn't anything to do with Kilkenny's tackling, it was simply that Kilkenny were hardly awarded any frees at all. Either let the game flow or blow for everything but at least do the same for both sides. Kilkenny were denied four of the most blatant frees you will ever see in the first 25 minutes of the game. All were within 40 yards of the Waterford goal. The worst was when either Walsh or Browne climbed on Shefflin's back as he ran through and hauled him down only for the ref to incredibly wave play on.

There were about two. Both from Declan Prendergast. What about Richie Power getting a free near the end of the half for dragging down Brick? Not only should that not have been a free in it should have been a free out. There were a lot of frees that could have been given that were waved on for advantage. One of the two frees I felt Waterford should not have gotten was one given to Molumphy, but he blew the whistle as Molumphy released the ball to Kevin Moran who was running into a lot of space. There was a goal chance on, or certainly a point. He gave the free which was on the sideline, and Mahony it wide.

gearoidc wrote: »

Yep. That's it in a nutshell.
If Waterford had snatched a few late goals we'd be hearing about "The Comeback" for the next 30 years and not a mention of the fact that KK would have been out of sight if the ref had done his job.

If Waterford had scored a few late goals it would have been worth talking about for the next 30 years.

But they didn't. In the same way the ref didn't show bias towards Waterford.

Mountainlad

DH2K9 wrote: »

I somehow doubt that....

If you have you know how hard it is to referee a match. How when a certain situation comes up and if you give a free to team A then team B gives out and if you give the free to Team B then team A gives out and if you give a hop ball everybody gives out.

You obviously get too caught up with the boll*x coming out of every second Dub fan at the match. The amount of abuse (most of it personal) given at a match to the referee and the two linesman is disgraceful. You no doubt were part of that.

The ref got a couple of decisions wrong but he will never have a perfect game and no referee has EVER had a perfect game.

So let them get on without their job and you get on with yours which is supporting whichever county you're from.

Suddenly everybody thinks they're a Sunday Game analyst.........

Agree about this. Big difference between juveniles and Inter county Senior.

To me Barry Kelly actually did alright yesterday. He missed some stuff but nothing major from what I saw. Michael Duignan was on about Richie Hogan taking to many steps, but I dunno that he was right.

overshoot

thought id throw in the ulster final second half. donegal 6 frees, derry 20

DH2K9

Look the main reason the team that is losing gets more frees is because they are putting all the pressure on the winning team who without knowing it commit more fouls under pressure simple as.

Mountainlad

DH2K9 wrote: »

Look the main reason the team that is losing gets more frees is because they are putting all the pressure on the winning team who without knowing it commit more fouls under pressure simple as.

Also you have to look at where the fouls are commited as well. A lot of the fouls the team well ahead commit are there own forwards fouling the opposition up the field. They then stand on the ball so it can't be taken quickly and get re-organised in defence. Several examples of Dublin doing that Saturday night.

Any team would give away a free if it meant stopping a goal too, and teams that are winning do that as well.

gearoidc

DH2K9

I somehow doubt that....

Doubt away. If I was gonna lie I'd go the whole way and say I reffed senior.

If you have you know how hard it is to referee a match. How when a certain situation comes up and if you give a free to team A then team B gives out and if you give the free to Team B then team A gives out and if you give a hop ball everybody gives out.

All true. What's your point?

You obviously get too caught up with the boll*x coming out of every second Dub fan at the match. The amount of abuse (most of it personal) given at a match to the referee and the two linesman is disgraceful. You no doubt were part of that.

No. Wasn't at the match. I'm not a Dub but watching on TV thought Tyrone got a lot of soft frees. Yes, the abuse is disgraceful but it's par for the course. No county any worse than the others imo

The ref got a couple of decisions wrong but he will never have a perfect game and no referee has EVER had a perfect game.

Agreed. I'm not asking them to be perfect. Just fair.

So let them get on without their job and you get on with yours which is supporting whichever county you're from.

Being a supporter means I'll comment on all aspects of the sport. That includes referees.

Suddenly everybody thinks they're a Sunday Game analyst........

No they don't.

DH2K9

gearoidc wrote: »

DH2K9

I somehow doubt that....

Doubt away. If I was gonna lie I'd go the whole way and say I reffed senior.

If you have you know how hard it is to referee a match. How when a certain situation comes up and if you give a free to team A then team B gives out and if you give the free to Team B then team A gives out and if you give a hop ball everybody gives out.

All true. What's your point?

You obviously get too caught up with the boll*x coming out of every second Dub fan at the match. The amount of abuse (most of it personal) given at a match to the referee and the two linesman is disgraceful. You no doubt were part of that.

No. Wasn't at the match. I'm not a Dub but watching on TV thought Tyrone got a lot of soft frees. Yes, the abuse is disgraceful but it's par for the course. No county any worse than the others imo

The ref got a couple of decisions wrong but he will never have a perfect game and no referee has EVER had a perfect game.

Agreed. I'm not asking them to be perfect. Just fair.

So let them get on without their job and you get on with yours which is supporting whichever county you're from.

Being a supporter means I'll comment on all aspects of the sport. That includes referees.

Suddenly everybody thinks they're a Sunday Game analyst........

No they don't.

My point is it is close too impossible to get every decision right.

As a dub myself and having sat beside fans from other counites I have to say the dubs are the worse

Questioning a referees integrity now? They do it for free, in fact they lose money because of travel etc. Yes they get expenses but a 25 euro one for petrol and food for 2 linesmen and 4 umpires is nothing.

Well I'm telling you now that's what yourself and a lot of other people think you are. Looking at every stat possible to find something controversial. Judge the game on what you see.

Oh yeah define a soft free for me? A free is a free at the end of the day

Good loser

I've noticed this undoubted bias by referees in both games for years now.

It's not majorly serious unless the 'behind team' makes an unexpected recovery.

For example when Offaly beat Kerry in that famous five in a row decider the ref gave Offaly two unjustifiable tap-over points just before the match winning Darby goal.

Also when Kerry were beaten by Armagh in AI final some years back ref gave Armagh many undeserved frees and put up with an incredible amount of time wasting by them.

On Sunday Brennan felt strongly he had got a good point when waved wide ( not a ref matter). Duignan mentioned two KK unrewarded frees ( and there were many more) one on Tyrell (giving WD a point) and one on Shefflin.

In general I feel the goal value should be increased to four points equivalence - to keep games alive longer.

Also really bad fouls on any part of the pitch should be punished by penalties.

El Inho

actually thought that meself yesterday watching the match...

seemed like 50/50 balls or just good hard tackles were goin waterfords way. dissapointing but hopefully it'll iron out

cournioni

Had a club championship match last weekend, we were winning by seven points just before half time. I made a save with my feet and was no where near the the player that struck the ball off the ground (it wasn't in his hands at any point). Ref gave a penalty to them which their player duly converted. This gave them a lift going in at half time and they won the match by a point in the last minute of the game. Joke of a decision.

Mountainlad

cournioni wrote: »

Had a club championship match last weekend, we were winning by seven points just before half time. I made a save with my feet and was no where near the the player that struck the ball off the ground (it wasn't in his hands at any point). Ref gave a penalty to them which their player duly converted. This gave them a lift going in at half time and they won the match by a point in the last minute of the game. Joke of a decision.

That sounds to me more like a bad decision then intentionally trying to get a team back into the game.

cournioni

Mountainlad wrote: »

That sounds to me more like a bad decision then intentionally trying to get a team back into the game.

He also awarded them a point after blowing for a foul, our players stopped and their player continued his run for about 10 yards and stuck the ball over the bar.

Mountainlad

cournioni wrote: »

He also awarded them a point after blowing for a foul, our players stopped and their player continued his run for about 10 yards and stuck the ball over the bar.

Was that before or after the goal?

cournioni

Mountainlad wrote: »

cournioni wrote: »

He also awarded them a point after blowing for a foul, our players stopped and their player continued his run for about 10 yards and stuck the ball over the bar.

Was that before or after the goal?

After...

Mountainlad

cournioni wrote: »

After...

And what was in it at that stage? Probably again just bad refereeing.

Either way your frustrations are understood. I have played in games where I've thought I've been hard done by. Obviously, I wasn't at your game so I can't form too much of an opinion on it but I would say more likely then not he just got the decisions wrong.