Why are finals in September?

denisc

I'm sure there was a logic underlying the original decision to have such big gaps between matches and not to play the finals until September, but I'd be equally sure that the reasons for that decision have long since disappeared.

With players these days training their arsses off 5-6 evenings (and mornings!) a week, isn't having breaks of 3-4 weeks between matches a bit ludicrous - not to mention unfair?

Syferus

Most coaches and players have said their ideal lead-up is three weeks so, no, the finals' (and semi-finals) timing are one of the few thing that isn't wrong with the current schedule.

denisc

Syferus wrote: »

Most coaches and players have said their ideal lead-up is three weeks so, no, the finals' (and semi-finals) timing are one of the few thing that isn't wrong with the current schedule.

"Most" of the players coaches..???

When and where did you hear that one?

Seems a bit odd to say the least. As someone who played - albeit at junior level -I know I'd have taken playing over training any day.

Surely two weeks is plenty time for a "lead-up"???

Syferus

denisc wrote: »

"Most" of the players coaches..???

When and where did you hear that one?

Seems a bit odd to say the least. As someone who played - albeit at junior level -I know I'd have taken playing over training any day.

Surely two weeks is plenty time for a "lead-up"???

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2011/0614/1224298861645.html

“I suppose three weeks would be the ideal thing for a team and a manager because after a championship game you’ve a week to get over whatever knocks you have, a week of good training and then an easy week to build up again,”

I've heard managers from Fergal O'Donnell to Mickey Harte say the same in the last year alone, to name a few.

denisc

Syferus wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2011/0614/1224298861645.html

“I suppose three weeks would be the ideal thing for a team and a manager because after a championship game you’ve a week to get over whatever knocks you have, a week of good training and then an easy week to build up again,”

I've heard managers from Fergal O'Donnell to Mickey Harte say the same in the last year alone, to name a few.

From the same article as you have quoted above,..

"Ideal situation? Week to week would suit Cooper just fine as he is currently doing 12 training sessions per championship game."

Reading the full article it is clear that Gooch wouldn't personally subscribe to the 3 week theory.

Syferus

denisc wrote: »

From the same article as you have quoted above,..

"Ideal situation? Week to week would suit Cooper just fine as he is currently doing 12 training sessions per championship game."

Reading the full article it is clear that Gooch wouldn't personally subscribe to the 3 week theory.

Ideal being him or his teammates never getting injuries, picking up knocks and being fully rested seven days later, all of which he knows will never be the situation. He'd prefer to play fit rather than injured like any other player.

Anything more than three weeks is too much, but three weeks is almost perfect for inter-county teams.

denisc

Of course managers(and players) would like all their players fit but to suggest that most Gaelic footballers want - or should get - three weeks between games is just daft.

There is not another sports competition out there that has such a gap between games.

Soccer players in Eng usually play every 4 days.
Rugby players play every 7 days.
I don't hear too many of them complaining and I certainly haven't heard of any of them saying they'd prefer to be training.

UpTheSlashers

denisc wrote: »

Of course managers(and players) would like all their players fit but to suggest that most Gaelic footballers want - or should get - three weeks between games is just daft.

There is not another sports competition out there that has such a gap between games.

Soccer players in Eng usually play every 4 days.
Rugby players play every 7 days.
I don't hear too many of them complaining and I certainly haven't heard of any of them saying they'd prefer to be training.

Think about those two for a second now...;)

Also, there is such thing as CLUB matches. The GAA isnt all about hopping on the All-Ireland bandwagon in August/September

deise_boi

denisc wrote: »

Of course managers(and players) would like all their players fit but to suggest that most Gaelic footballers want - or should get - three weeks between games is just daft.

There is not another sports competition out there that has such a gap between games.

Soccer players in Eng usually play every 4 days.
Rugby players play every 7 days.
I don't hear too many of them complaining and I certainly haven't heard of any of them saying they'd prefer to be training.

How is it daft to suggest that? There's plenty of players & coaches I'm sure who are for having the few weeks, as it provides enough time for recovery & preparation whilst on the flip side I'm sure there's plenty who are against and would prefer to play with shorter gaps to keep momentum going.
But aside from the players & coaches, a case has to be made for fans too. It's financially difficult enough for many supporters these days to be asked to travel from across the country as it is. 3 weeks I would think probably suits those people, as travelling twice in 14days between the semi and the final, and paying quite a substantial amount of money in that time, would be quite costly.

In fairness, the vast majority of those soccer & rugby players that play games in those kind of timeframes are professionals and don't have jobs to be doing in between so there's not much of a comparison to be drawn between them and the GAA.

UpTheSlashers

deise_boi wrote: »

It's financially difficult enough for many supporters these days to be asked to travel from across the country as it is. 3 weeks I would think probably suits those people, as travelling twice in 14days between the semi and the final, and paying quite a substantial amount of money in that time, would be quite costly.

Very good point.

denisc

deise_boi wrote: »

How is it daft to suggest that? There's plenty of players & coaches I'm sure who are for having the few weeks, as it provides enough time for recovery & preparation whilst on the flip side I'm sure there's plenty who are against and would prefer to play with shorter gaps to keep momentum going.

I said it's daft to suggest "most" players feel this way. I am certain most players would prefer to be playing at least once every 2 weeks.

But aside from the players & coaches, a case has to be made for fans too. It's financially difficult enough for many supporters these days to be asked to travel from across the country as it is. 3 weeks I would think probably suits those people, as travelling twice in 14days between the semi and the final, and paying quite a substantial amount of money in that time, would be quite costly.

How many football supporters are so strapped for cash that they need to wait for the next weeks pay cheque to fund their football day out?? Spreading the games out doesn't save them a penny and if they are so short of funds that they have to wait for their pay cheque I suggest they'd be better off saving their cash for the rainy days ahead.

In fairness, the vast majority of those soccer & rugby players that play games in those kind of timeframes are professionals and don't have jobs to be doing in between so there's not much of a comparison to be drawn between them and the GAA.

Firstly, you seem to forget that those players will have to attend training sessions in between games. By extending the time between games it means they have to attend MORE training sessions, which means MORE nights travelling to the training ground from work and MORE time spent away from their families.
Secondly, I am talking about reducing the time between matches to 14 days. It's still a lot more than the professionals get.

n

Blackjack

denisc wrote: »

Soccer players in Eng usually play every 4 days.
Rugby players play every 7 days.
I don't hear too many of them complaining and I certainly haven't heard of any of them saying they'd prefer to be training.

They won't complain because its the only job they have. They work once or twice a week, and are overpaid for their productivity.

DoctaDee

So us Dubs know when we can book our Summer holidays :rolleyes:

denisc

Blackjack wrote: »

They won't complain because its the only job they have. They work once or twice a week, and are overpaid for their productivity.

I think you are missing my point.
If professional players aren't playing, they still have to train nearly every day.

Given the choice between
(a) training for three weeks with no match, or
(b) playing matches on three successive weekends with limited training, most players -professional or amateur, in any code - will opt for the latter.

And no, they are not overpaid. It's all about the rules of TV supply and demand.

K-9

The qualifiers kind of put paid to the notion of a 3 week break. It can be done on a weekly or fortnightly basis no problem.

It comes back to the provincial championships. Leinster and Ulster need more time to run of their championships, Connacht and Munster don't.

You could play all the Leinster Q/F's on one day, Ulster as well, but that means games don't get TV coverage.

The 3 week thing comes back to a point O'Hara made about the qualifiers playing provincial runners up. If it was a provincial replay players get themselves up for it the next week, it's a psychological thing.

denisc

K-9 wrote: »

The qualifiers kind of put paid to the notion of a 3 week break. It can be done on a weekly or fortnightly basis no problem.

It comes back to the provincial championships. Leinster and Ulster need more time to run of their championships, Connacht and Munster don't.

You could play all the Leinster Q/F's on one day, Ulster as well, but that means games don't get TV coverage.

The 3 week thing comes back to a point O'Hara made about the qualifiers playing provincial runners up. If it was a provincial replay players get themselves up for it the next week, it's a psychological thing.

Bottom line is that the GAA could have more matches each weekend.

Without a doubt semi-finals should happen on the same weekend - Saturday and Sunday - with the final taking place two weeks later. There is absolutely no good reason why this could not happen.

The World Cup soccer semifinals and final are only four days apart for God's sake!

Being an amateur doesn't mean you need an extra 17 days to recover!.

Frankly, to claim that they do is total rubbish.

Both championships should be done and dusted by the end of August.

K-9

denisc wrote: »

Bottom line is that the GAA could have more matches each weekend.
Without a doubt semi-finals in both codes should happen on the same weekend - Saturday and Sunday - with the final taking place two weeks later. There is absolutely no good reason why this could not happen.

The World Cup soccer semifinals and final are only four days apart for God's sake!

Being an amateur doesn't mean you need an extra 17 days to recover. It's total rubbish.

TV.

Ulster and Leinster Semi Finals will generally get TV audiences, Donegal Tyrone and Derry Armagh, better having both on different days, especially for BBC NI or UTV.

Absolutely zero point having Munster S/F's on different days or Connacht.

Never understood the 2 week gap between the AI Finals.

Mountainlad

denisc wrote: »

n

There are a lot more football fans then you'd find GAA fans in Ireland over in England because they have 10 times our population. Burnley, the smallest town, has a similar population to Waterford City. And the economy is worse over here.

That is why playing games week after week would make supporters stay away.

malkmoose

From my experience I think players would prefer shorter times between games, I played senior club football in Dublin for many years and there are about 30 senior clubs giving about 600/700 senior footballer with their holiday plans on hold waiting for the inter country games to finish up. County championship is on hold until inter county players are ready. I am sure this is similar in a lot of counties.
Most Inter county players will probably be playing again within a week of getting knocked out of the AI. The season is long enough as it is.

Blackjack

denisc wrote: »

I think you are missing my point.
If professional players aren't playing, they still have to train nearly every day.

Given the choice between
(a) training for three weeks with no match, or
(b) playing matches on three successive weekends with limited training, most players -professional or amateur, in any code - will opt for the latter.

And no, they are not overpaid. It's all about the rules of TV supply and demand.

I think you're missing mine. GAA players have day jobs. For the overpaid pro's in the premiership, they have to traing for what, 3 hours maybe 4 a day?. If they have to actually play 3 games (an additional 6 hours work) in the space of more than 7 days they do then moan about being overtired.
Whats that in terms of hours worked for a full time job?.

denisc

Blackjack wrote: »

I think you're missing mine. GAA players have day jobs. For the overpaid pro's in the premiership, they have to traing for what, 3 hours maybe 4 a day?. If they have to actually play 3 games (an additional 6 hours work) in the space of more than 7 days they do then moan about being overtired.
Whats that in terms of hours worked for a full time job?.

I genuinely don't know what point you are trying to make.
I'll repeat my point which you totally ignored
Given the choice between
(a) training for three weeks with no match, or
(b) playing matches on three successive weekends with limited training, most players -professional or amateur, in any code - will opt for the latter.

Do you disagree?

Blackjack

denisc wrote: »

I genuinely don't know what point you are trying to make.
I'll repeat my point which you totally ignored
Given the choice between
(a) training for three weeks with no match, or
(b) playing matches on three successive weekends with limited training, most players -professional or amateur, in any code - will opt for the latter.

Do you disagree?

And I genuinely don't know whats yours.
Players who play at Intercounty level also play at club level.

E.g. - Many of the Mayo Panel who played on the Sunday of the Bank Holiday weekend against Cork, played for their Clubs yesterday.

They will play again on the 21st in the Semi Final against Kerry, and many will play again on the 28th pf August in the county quarter Finals for their respective clubs.

Were you aware that players play for Clubs as well as their county?.

denisc

Blackjack wrote: »

And I genuinely don't know whats yours.
Players who play at Intercounty level also play at club level.

E.g. - Many of the Mayo Panel who played on the Sunday of the Bank Holiday weekend against Cork, played for their Clubs yesterday.

They will play again on the 21st in the Semi Final against Kerry, and many will play again on the 28th pf August in the county quarter Finals for their respective clubs.

Were you aware that players play for Clubs as well as their county?.

Well done on inadvertently adding so much weight to my argument.

My point all along is that it is ridiculous to argue that the Championships need to be dragged out over nearly 5 months. People on here say that it's necessary because GAA players need 3 weeks to recuperate between matches.
As your post shows, this is utter rubbish.

The All Ireland Championships should be run off in a far shorter time frame thereby enabling players to return to a "normal" life - and preparation for their own club competitions.

Blackjack

denisc wrote: »

Well done on inadvertently adding so much weight to my argument.

And this was your argument:

denisc wrote: »

I'm sure there was a logic underlying the original decision to have such big gaps between matches and not to play the finals until September, but I'd be equally sure that the reasons for that decision have long since disappeared.

With players these days training their arsses off 5-6 evenings (and mornings!) a week, isn't having breaks of 3-4 weeks between matches a bit ludicrous - not to mention unfair?

denisc wrote: »

Of course managers(and players) would like all their players fit but to suggest that most Gaelic footballers want - or should get - three weeks between games is just daft.

denisc wrote: »

My point all along is that it is ridiculous to argue that the Championships need to be dragged out over nearly 5 months.

You failed miserably in your efforts to make this point, really you did. In fact, you never made it until your most recent post.

denisc wrote: »

The All Ireland Championships should be run off in a far shorter time frame thereby enabling players to return to a "normal" life - and preparation for their own club competitions.

Can't really see your point for this either, or why it bothers you.

denisc

Blackjack wrote: »

You failed miserably in your efforts to make this point, really you did. In fact, you never made it until your most recent post.

Can't really see your point for this either, or why it bothers you.

From my first post....
"With players these days training their arsses off 5-6 evenings (and mornings!) a week, isn't having breaks of 3-4 weeks between matches a bit ludicrous - not to mention unfair? "

And that was failing to make my point???

I give up.

Blackjack

denisc wrote: »

From my first post....
"With players these days training their arsses off 5-6 evenings (and mornings!) a week, isn't having breaks of 3-4 weeks between matches a bit ludicrous - not to mention unfair? "

And that was failing to make my point???

I give up.

Ah here - make up your mind - it was pointed out to you that there are Club games between championship matches, and then you come out with the below:

denisc wrote: »

Well done on inadvertently adding so much weight to my argument.

My point all along is that it is ridiculous to argue that the Championships need to be dragged out over nearly 5 months.

Which point were you really trying to make?.

Syferus

Simple as, most of these guys are lucky enough to have jobs, jobs they probably have to hour corners in terms of hours worked and things done, especially in the week leading up to a match. There's club matches invariably in between long inter-county lay-offs so the time between two county team matches is rarely a fair judge of how long the players have waited to play a competitive game.

All points already made.

The thing that needs to be sorted out is the 6-day turn around for losing Connacht/Ulster finalists and the dead weeks in the early stages of the provincial championships. Honestly, it seems high time the GAA regularly schedule Saturday afternoon and evening games as that coupled with a better tv strategy - that dispenses with this 'less is better' idiocy they've taken up this season - and would solve just about every problem with the schedule and no one would feel left out.

denisc

Blackjack wrote: »

Which point were you really trying to make?.

Ok.Your first post was totally irrelevant to the title of the thread and to the point I had made and we've argued in circles since.
Clearly you can't be arssed or are simply unable to address the original question so I'll give it one final go.

I made the point in the very first post that the amount of training sessions they are forced to attend is unfair on the players.

Some fellas could have 100 mile round trips to the training sessions. You do realise that don't you, or do you need every single thing spelt out to you?
By stretching the competition over 5 months the GAA is placing a very unnecessary,onerous and unfair burden on these fellas, on their work and on their families.

(Subsequent arguments made by others about the need for 3 weeks rest between matches don't hold up as pointed up by your own post re club matches)

Do you get my point now?
And more to the point, can you finally offer your opinion on the substantive issue re the length of the Championship?

bruschi

denisc wrote: »

Well done on inadvertently adding so much weight to my argument.

My point all along is that it is ridiculous to argue that the Championships need to be dragged out over nearly 5 months. People on here say that it's necessary because GAA players need 3 weeks to recuperate between matches.
As your post shows, this is utter rubbish.

The All Ireland Championships should be run off in a far shorter time frame thereby enabling players to return to a "normal" life - and preparation for their own club competitions.

since when did the championship take 5 months?

some teams are gone after 3 weeks. Kilkenny, in the hurling final had their first game on the 11th June, and their last will be on the 4th September. Thats 3 months by my simple calculations.

Dublin had their first game on the 5th June, and their last could maybe be the 18th should they beat Donegal. Again, that is by my reckoning, 3 and a half months. Donegal will have 4 months should they win, and be by far the team playing the longest, and this was because they got drawn in the one and only qualifying game that Ulster has to play.

the majority of teams are gone in less than 2 months. Opening game late May, early June, and most are gone by the first weekend in July.


there are far bigger concerns in the GAA calender and other issues to be worrying about a 3 week break to the AI final.

denisc

bruschi wrote: »

since when did the championship take 5 months?

some teams are gone after 3 weeks. Kilkenny, in the hurling final had their first game on the 11th June, and their last will be on the 4th September. Thats 3 months by my simple calculations.

Dublin had their first game on the 5th June, and their last could maybe be the 18th should they beat Donegal. Again, that is by my reckoning, 3 and a half months. Donegal will have 4 months should they win, and be by far the team playing the longest, and this was because they got drawn in the one and only qualifying game that Ulster has to play.

the majority of teams are gone in less than 2 months. Opening game late May, early June, and most are gone by the first weekend in July.


there are far bigger concerns in the GAA calender and other issues to be worrying about a 3 week break to the AI final.

I'll hold my hand up on the 5 months figure. I was wrong on that one..

It's a bit silly to talk about the teams that are "out after three weeks" -or even 2 months - since it's obvious by my use of "September" in the title that I'm wasn't referring to teams in that category.

I am not "worrying about a 3 week break to the final."
I am talking about the campaign as a whole.

In Kerry's case, should they reach the final, their campaign will have lasted 4 months (well, 17 weeks to be exact)

That is an average of more than 3 weeks between matches. In some cases it will be 4 weeks from match to match. That's a ridiculously long wait to impose on players- particularly when you consider all the training sessions that will have to be attended in between.

I think it's a crazy state of affairs.

bruschi

denisc wrote: »

I'll hold my hand up on the 5 months figure. I was wrong on that one..

It's a bit silly to talk about the teams that are "out after three weeks" -or even 2 months - since it's obvious by my use of "September" in the title that I'm wasn't referring to teams in that category.

I am not "worrying about a 3 week break to the final."
I am talking about the campaign as a whole.

In Kerry's case, should they reach the final, their campaign will have lasted 4 months (well, 17 weeks to be exact)

That is an average of more than 3 weeks between matches. In some cases it will be 4 weeks from match to match. That's a ridiculously long wait to impose on players- particularly when you consider all the training sessions that will have to be attended in between.

I think it's a crazy state of affairs.

I dont understand your logic in the whole thing then. why are you so concerned over the whole scheduling if its only about the teams who get to play in September, of which there are 4. in the scheme of things, there are over 40 others (hurling and football) who dont get to play in September.

Instead of throwing out generalisations, hows about you come up with a formula that gets all provincial games, then all qualifier games played, and also doesnt mean a team has to wait more than 2 weeks for a game.

some teams this year played 3 weeks in a row to get to the stage Kerry were at. how do you propose they get there whilst also allowing Kerry play more games? Or do you propose the teams in qualifiers play midweek as well? It doesnt make any logical sense.

the only time the championship could be tightened up is at this time of the year, at the semi final and AI final. what difference really is it if a team has an extra week break? I dont think I have ever heard a player giving out that he has to wait 3 weeks to play in an AI final.

denisc

bruschi wrote: »

I dont understand your logic in the whole thing then. why are you so concerned over the whole scheduling if its only about the teams who get to play in September, of which there are 4. in the scheme of things, there are over 40 others (hurling and football) who dont get to play in September.

Instead of throwing out generalisations, hows about you come up with a formula that gets all provincial games, then all qualifier games played, and also doesnt mean a team has to wait more than 2 weeks for a game.

some teams this year played 3 weeks in a row to get to the stage Kerry were at. how do you propose they get there whilst also allowing Kerry play more games? Or do you propose the teams in qualifiers play midweek as well? It doesnt make any logical sense.

the only time the championship could be tightened up is at this time of the year, at the semi final and AI final. what difference really is it if a team has an extra week break? I dont think I have ever heard a player giving out that he has to wait 3 weeks to play in an AI final.

Off the top of my head why not have every 1st round match played over the 1st weekend? No replays. (This year it took 3 weeks before every team had got a game)

These matches have lost their appeal and should be got out of the way fast. Two matches at a venue where feasible so bigger crowds.
Qualifiers to take place the following week.

If that had happened this year the 1st round qualifiers would have been done and dusted by May 29th. This year they took place on June 25th.

Any issue with that?

bruschi

denisc wrote: »

Off the top of my head why not have every 1st round match played over the 1st weekend? No replays. (This year it took 3 weeks before every team had got a game)

These matches have lost their appeal and should be got out of the way fast. Two matches at a venue where feasible so bigger crowds.
Qualifiers to take place the following week.

If that had happened this year the 1st round qualifiers would have been done and dusted by May 29th. This year they took place on June 25th.

Any issue with that?

yup. you dont understand how the fixtures and qualifiers work.

Lets use football as the example.

Leinster has 11 teams competing.

The need to play at least 2 rounds of games to get to qualifiers stage.

Munster has 5 teams competing. they have one first round team who goes into the first round qualifiers.

then the losing semi finalists in provincial go through.

so in essence, someone will have to wait at least 3 weeks for a game.

thereby meaning you wont be able to run off the qualifiers that quick.

Blackjack

denisc wrote: »

Ok.Your first post was totally irrelevant to the title of the thread and to the point I had made and we've argued in circles since.
Clearly you can't be arssed or are simply unable to address the original question so I'll give it one final go.

I made the point in the very first post that the amount of training sessions they are forced to attend is unfair on the players.

Some fellas could have 100 mile round trips to the training sessions. You do realise that don't you, or do you need every single thing spelt out to you?
By stretching the competition over 5 months the GAA is placing a very unnecessary,onerous and unfair burden on these fellas, on their work and on their families.

(Subsequent arguments made by others about the need for 3 weeks rest between matches don't hold up as pointed up by your own post re club matches)

Do you get my point now?
And more to the point, can you finally offer your opinion on the substantive issue re the length of the Championship?

My first point was entirely relevant to a post you made- you were comparing Professionals who have no job other than to train and play and "don't hear too many of them complaining" if they have to play a game every 7 days, with Amateurs who's livelihood is entirely different to the game they play maybe every 2 weeks.

Only 2 teams make it to the Final. I'm sure any player will agree that if they go through your already disproven 5 month season to get there, they'd be delighted to do so to get a crack at winning the all Ireland.

There's nothing wrong with things as they stand. Your own calculations as to the passage of time between the beginning and the end of the season, as well as Club vs County, however.....

denisc

Blackjack wrote: »

My first point was entirely relevant to a post you made- you were comparing Professionals who have no job other than to train and play and "don't hear too many of them complaining" if they have to play a game every 7 days, with Amateurs who's livelihood is entirely different to the game they play maybe every 2 weeks.

Only 2 teams make it to the Final. I'm sure any player will agree that if they go through your already disproven 5 month season to get there, they'd be delighted to do so to get a crack at winning the all Ireland.

There's nothing wrong with things as they stand. Your own calculations as to the passage of time between the beginning and the end of the season, as well as Club vs County, however.....

I was saying that if soccer players can manage matches every 4 days, then it was crazy of people to suggest GAA players needed 3 weeks between matches. It is simplistic on your part to argue that because one sport is amateur and the other professional, that the two are completely mutually exclusive for comparison purposes. You'd swear we were talking about different species. The irony of your assertion is that a few of our GAA players are probably fitter than their soccer friends across the water.

The fact that our fellas have to work as well could have some bearing on the issue but nothing like to the extent you'd have us believe. By all accounts the Dublin panel seems to have plenty of energy during the working week to knock lumps out of each other in practice matches. Kilkenny hurlers do the same.

I'm sure if you ask any player -surely the people whose opinion counts most- they would say they'd prefer a shorter Championship season.

Are you saying it would be both impossible and undesirable to shave 4 weeks off the current schedule?

(ps I've already acknowledged my error re the 5 months so why you still goin on about it???)

bruschi

denisc wrote: »

I was saying that if soccer players can manage matches every 4 days, then it was crazy of people to suggest GAA players needed 3 weeks between matches. It is simplistic on your part to argue that because one sport is amateur and the other professional, that the two are completely mutually exclusive for comparison purposes. You'd swear we were talking about different species. The irony of your assertion is that a few of our GAA players are probably fitter than their soccer friends across the water.

The fact that our fellas have to work as well could have some bearing on the issue but nothing like to the extent you'd have us believe. By all accounts the Dublin panel seems to have plenty of energy during the working week to knock lumps out of each other in practice matches. Kilkenny hurlers do the same.

I'm sure if you ask any player -surely the people whose opinion counts most- they would say they'd prefer a shorter Championship season.

Are you saying it would be both impossible and undesirable to shave 4 weeks off the current schedule?

(ps I've already acknowledged my error re the 5 months so why you still goin on about it???)

you keep saying this, but have you any evidence, at all, that this may be true?

you may also have missed the flaws I found in your proposal for running off the championship earlier above.

Itsdacraic

K-9 wrote: »

denisc wrote: »

Bottom line is that the GAA could have more
.

Never understood the 2 week gap between the AI Finals.

Its not that hard to comprehend.
To allow for a replay in the hurling

denisc

bruschi wrote: »

you keep saying this, but have you any evidence, at all, that this may be true?

you may also have missed the flaws I found in your proposal for running off the championship earlier above.

Only Gooch (in the earlier article) who seemed to suggest he'd be happiest playing every week.

Try this....

May 21st: Preliminary Rounds
May 28th/29th: Semis Munster, Conn. Quarters Ulst, Lein
Break
June 11th/12th : First round of Qualifiers. Semis Ulst./Lein
Break
June 25th/26th: Second round of Qualifiers. Finals Conn/Munst
July 2nd/3rd: Finals Ulst/Lein
Break
July 14th/15th: Third round of Qualifiers
July 21st/22nd: Quarter Finals
Break
August 4th/5th: Semi-finals
Break
August 19th: Final

No matches except final go to replays.

Another benefit of this system is that, unlike under the current model, no losing team has to face a 6 day turnaround to the qualifiers.

bruschi

denisc wrote: »

Only Gooch (in the earlier article) who seemed to suggest he'd be happiest playing every week.

Try this....

May 21st: Preliminary Rounds
May 28th/29th: Semis Munster, Conn. Quarters Ulst, Lein
Break
June 11th/12th : First round of Qualifiers. Semis Ulst./Lein
June 18th/19th: Second round of Qualifiers.
Break
July 2nd/3rd: Provincial Finals.
Break
July 14th/15th: Third round of Qualifiers
July 21st/22nd: Quarter Finals
Break
August 4th/5th: Semi-finals
Break
August 19th: Final

New rule: No matches go to replays.

one player. who was pretty much non plussed either way.

and you have the Leinster quarters missing.

it leaves a lot of teams who would be playing a lot of times in a very short period. the qualifier teams already have a load of games to squeeze in a short space, why complicate it more?

and does the hurling go on at the same time? you could have up to 20 games on over a weekend? And why the need to rush it so much just to get a couple of weeks shorter?

Itsdacraic

denisc wrote: »

Only Gooch (in the earlier article) who seemed to suggest he'd be happiest playing every week.

Try this....

May 21st: Preliminary Rounds
May 28th/29th: Semis Munster, Conn. Quarters Ulst, Lein
Break
June 11th/12th : First round of Qualifiers. Semis Ulst./Lein
Break
June 25th/26th: Second round of Qualifiers. Finals Conn/Munst
July 2nd/3rd: Finals Ulst/Lein
Break
July 14th/15th: Third round of Qualifiers
July 21st/22nd: Quarter Finals
Break
August 4th/5th: Semi-finals
Break
August 19th: Final

No matches except final go to replays.

Another benefit of this system is that, unlike under the current model, no losing team has to face a 6 day turnaround to the qualifiers.

I take it you're from a non-hurling county?

Counties like Cork, Limerick, Dublin and Galway could potentially be out twice a weekend. Games in such quick succession would kill attendances.
It would be impossible to play club championship games.

There is more to the GAA than intercounty.

denisc

bruschi wrote: »

one player. who was pretty much non plussed either way.

and you have the Leinster quarters missing.

it leaves a lot of teams who would be playing a lot of times in a very short period. the qualifier teams already have a load of games to squeeze in a short space, why complicate it more?

and does the hurling go on at the same time? you could have up to 20 games on over a weekend? And why the need to rush it so much just to get a couple of weeks shorter?

Emmm, no I don't have Lein quarters missing.

"Lot of teams lot of times in a short period"??? Where exactly? Plus I've got rid of the 6 day turnaround, by far THE unfairest part of the current system.

lol Hugely disingenuous to call 4 weeks a "couple of weeks"

Seems like you find it hard to be proven wrong.

bruschi

denisc wrote: »

Emmm, no I don't have Lein quarters missing.

"Lot of teams lot of times in a short period"??? Where exactly? Plus I've got rid of the 6 day turnaround, by far THE unfairest part of the current system.

lol Hugely disingenuous to call 4 weeks a "couple of weeks"

Seems like you find it hard to be proven wrong.

yeah I'm proven wrong alright. I'll bow out now to your superior knowledge and the fact you have the support of quite a lot of people and your logical system works.

its also clear that you dont equate hurling into any GAA calender.

If you think the GAA has a problem with fixtures, bring it up to your local club delegate for a motion and try get it passed.

Good luck.

denisc

bruschi wrote: »

yeah I'm proven wrong alright. I'll bow out now to your superior knowledge and the fact you have the support of quite a lot of people and your logical system works.

its also clear that you dont equate hurling into any GAA calender.

If you think the GAA has a problem with fixtures, bring it up to your local club delegate for a motion and try get it passed.

Good luck.

The haste with which you replied to the fixture list I gave you - so much so that you couldn't even read it properly or see the many slots that are available for hurling matches - hints at how little interest you actually have in even considering a point of view other than your own.

Earlier in this thread I held my hands up to a mistake you pointed out.
Judging by your utter inability to do likewise and acknowledge the glaring inaccuracies of your second last post, I'm beginning to think you might have some hubris issues.

I'd fill in the hurling fixtures for you but going by the sulky tone of your last reply, I'm guessing you'll do like you did with the football fixtures and won't read them either.

denisc

Itsdacraic wrote: »

I take it you're from a non-hurling county?

Counties like Cork, Limerick, Dublin and Galway could potentially be out twice a weekend. Games in such quick succession would kill attendances.
It would be impossible to play club championship games.

There is more to the GAA than intercounty.

No.I'm dual county.
Did you not see the "Breaks" for hurling.
Two weekends could be hurling/football weekends allowing counties like Cork,Galway, Dublin etc to have double-headers if practical.

No system is without its flaws but the current one ensures players are involved in inter-county for longer than is necessary which in turn has a negative knock-on effect on clubs fixtures.

My way reduces the effect on clubs.

ArmaniJeanss

denisc wrote: »

Only Gooch (in the earlier article) who seemed to suggest he'd be happiest playing every week.

Try this....

May 21st: Preliminary Rounds
May 28th/29th: Semis Munster, Conn. Quarters Ulst, Lein
Break
June 11th/12th : First round of Qualifiers. Semis Ulst./Lein
Break
June 25th/26th: Second round of Qualifiers. Finals Conn/Munst
July 2nd/3rd: Finals Ulst/Lein
Break
July 14th/15th: Third round of Qualifiers
July 21st/22nd: Quarter Finals
Break
August 4th/5th: Semi-finals
Break
August 19th: Final

No matches except final go to replays.

Another benefit of this system is that, unlike under the current model, no losing team has to face a 6 day turnaround to the qualifiers.

What has happened to the fourth round of qualifiers.
How do you prevent a match going to extra-time?

Blackjack

denisc wrote: »

I was saying that if soccer players can manage matches every 4 days, then it was crazy of people to suggest GAA players needed 3 weeks between matches. It is simplistic on your part to argue that because one sport is amateur and the other professional, that the two are completely mutually exclusive for comparison purposes. You'd swear we were talking about different species. The irony of your assertion is that a few of our GAA players are probably fitter than their soccer friends across the water.

The fact that our fellas have to work as well could have some bearing on the issue but nothing like to the extent you'd have us believe. By all accounts the Dublin panel seems to have plenty of energy during the working week to knock lumps out of each other in practice matches. Kilkenny hurlers do the same.

I'm sure if you ask any player -surely the people whose opinion counts most- they would say they'd prefer a shorter Championship season.

Whatever. You've got this notion based on one Players comment, discounted that there may be a need for Replays or that Hurling is another sport for consideration.

denisc wrote: »

Are you saying it would be both impossible and undesirable to shave 4 weeks off the current schedule?

Not impossible, somewhat undesirable. Why change, just for the sake of change?.

denisc wrote: »

(ps I've already acknowledged my error re the 5 months so why you still goin on about it???)

Its not the only error you've made.

denisc

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

What has happened to the fourth round of qualifiers.
How do you prevent a match going to extra-time?

It's there on July21/22.
Q finals are between prov winners and qualifiers from 3rd round. (I hope...)

Well, you can't prevent draws.
Play extra time and devise a shootout-kicks from the 45 maybe- if the teams are still level after that.

denisc

denisc wrote: »

It's there on July21/22.
Q finals are between prov winners and qualifiers from 3rd round. (I hope...)

Well, you can't prevent draws.
Play extra time and devise a shootout-kicks from the 45 maybe- if the teams are still level after that.

****t. I'm wrong.

denisc

May 21st: Preliminary Rounds
May 28th/29th: Semis Munster, Conn. Quarters Ulst, Lein
Break
June 11th/12th : First round of Qualifiers. Semis Ulst./Lein
Break
June 25th/26th: Second round of Qualifiers. Finals Conn/Munst
July 2nd/3rd: Finals Ulst/Lein Third round of Qualifiers
July 9th/10th: Fourth round of Qualifiers
Break
July 21st/22nd: Quarter Finals
Break
August 4th/5th: Semi-finals
Break
August 19th: Final

ArmaniJeanss

denisc wrote: »

Another benefit of this system is that, unlike under the current model, no losing team has to face a 6 day turnaround to the qualifiers.

denisc wrote: »

May 21st: Preliminary Rounds
May 28th/29th: Semis Munster, Conn. Quarters Ulst, Lein
Break
June 11th/12th : First round of Qualifiers. Semis Ulst./Lein
Break
June 25th/26th: Second round of Qualifiers. Finals Conn/Munst
July 2nd/3rd: Finals Ulst/Lein Third round of Qualifiers
July 9th/10th: Fourth round of Qualifiers
Break
July 21st/22nd: Quarter Finals
Break
August 4th/5th: Semi-finals
Break
August 19th: Final

With your revised schedule you are now back to a 6 day turnaround for the losing Ulster and Leinster quarter finalists, something you wanted to avoid.

I also think your structure would be a problem with the BBCNI TV deal.
BBCNI want to show around 7 games on unique Sundays only, (and as another minor problem they'd prefer those dates not to clash with the summer showpiece events like Wimbledon Mens Final, British Open Golf final day).
So by scheduling only 4 Sundays you risk losing this deal.

flas

why was everyone trying to compare the english premiership with the gaa schedule? just look closer to home at Irsih football, nearlly all of the players who play in the LOI are part-time or amaturers, basically get paid for the time they take off work and travel expenses, the vast majority do not make any sort of good money from it, they have a game evry week including 3 to 4 nights training and also have jobs or college to go to, the same as the gaa players in this country. think that would be a better comparison.