Female on male abuse

I forget what station it was on, but last night when I was coming home in a taxi there was a discussion on the radio about the male victims of domestic abuse. What struck me most about it was not the figures, but the listeners' responses. The first two callers in particular disgusted me. One was a young girl who genuinely thought it was FUNNY that men allowed women to hit/abuse them and the other was a woman who thought they DESERVED it because "men are always out 'doing the dirt' and they give women a reason to hit them".
I find this type of response absolutely repulsive. If this was a discussion of female abuse, and a man came on saying something like this, it would be a completely different story. What gives these women a right to demean men like this?
I won't go into detail about it but I will say I've witnessed male domestic abuse. There is no doubt in my mind that it's just as savage and disgraceful as female abuse. Watching a man being broken and marched into the dirt like that, day in, day out, is really heartbreaking. And all because they either won't hit a woman, or 'love' their partners too much to leave them. Men are susceptible to bullying just as surely as women are and the idea that they should always be the 'macho man' is, in my opinion, one of the great problems in Irish society.
What I want to know is, do these two represent the general female opinion? Do the rest of you believe that men who take abuse should be laughed at? Do they deserve is simply because they're men and all men are liars? Would you sit back and watch a man being abused, or would you stand up for him?

EDIT: Tumblr post that shows the reality of such situations- http://macaromee.tumblr.com/post/8379282249/an0m0ly-damage-this-is-not-my-usual-post-but

Lockstep

From lurking on TLL, it seems the women here are very aware of female on male domestic abuse.

Glad to see this, groups like Amen show how the abuse still occurs.

Busi_Girl08

kyedhen.female wrote: »

I forget what station it was on, but last night when I was coming home in a taxi there was a discussion on the radio about the male victims of domestic abuse. What struck me most about it was not the figures, but the listeners' responses. The first two callers in particular disgusted me. One was a young girl who genuinely thought it was FUNNY that men allowed women to hit/abuse them and the other was a woman who thought they DESERVED it because "men are always out 'doing the dirt' and they give women a reason to hit them".
I find this type of response absolutely repulsive. If this was a discussion of female abuse, and a man came on saying something like this, it would be a completely different story. What gives these women a right to demean men like this?
I won't go into detail about it but I will say I've witnessed male domestic abuse. There is no doubt in my mind that it's just as savage and disgraceful as female abuse. Watching a man being broken and marched into the dirt like that, day in, day out, is really heartbreaking. And all because they either won't hit a woman, or 'love' their partners too much to leave them. Men are susceptible to bullying just as surely as women are and the idea that they should always be the 'macho man' is, in my opinion, one of the great problems in Irish society.
What I want to know is, do these two represent the general female opinion? Do the rest of you believe that men who take abuse should be laughed at? Do they deserve is simply because they're men and all men are liars? Would you sit back and watch a man being abused, or would you stand up for him?

No. They do not.

NO-ONE deserves to be abused/beaten in any way.
NO-ONE should be able to justify this abuse by any means.

Anyone who suggests otherwise are not right in the head.

bronte

kyedhen.female wrote: »

What I want to know is, do these two represent the general female opinion?

I sincerely hope not.
What bothers me most about this type of abuse is the fact that it's kept so silent. Nobody wants to talk about it. Men are afraid they'll be laughed at if they were to report it. That they wouldn't be taken seriously.
I've had chats about it with my brother and male friends and I've always told them never to feel like they couldn't tell me if it was happening to them.
There is no way in hell I'd sit back and watch it happen and do nothing.

Morag

Late night phone in shows are frankly soap boxes for idiots.
Two idiots on such shows do not represent any demographic they are a part of.

However, those are some of the myths which are perpetuated about domestic abuse
we have far to many of these which need to be stamped out for all our sakes.

Partner abuse is always hard to take, how can the person that you love and is meant to love you treat you so badly, this emotional and cognitive dissonance will often leave victims (be they male or female and no matter the gender of thier partner )
stunned and un able to act when it happens and the shame and guilt afterwards does the same.

Logical Fallacy

I imagine it was Adrian Kennedy show...i have to say that in general i find that guy reprehensible and his Phone In Show is a joke. They would have picked those two women purely because they had contentious opinions...I am willing to bet good money there were many female callers saying that they found female on male physical abuse disgusting but they never would have made it on the air.

Monty Burnz

On an anecdotal basis, I don't know any of my female friends who have been attacked by a partner (but I imagine that they would be very unlikely to tell me if they were). Of my close male friends, I know that one was beaten by a long-term girlfriend, and I've also had a girlfriend hit me a couple of times during arguments, but it was born of frustration and was nothing dangerous (more of a gesture).

Domestic abuse, like sexism, seems to have become fossilised in the public mind (to some degree at least) as something where men are the perpetrators and women are the victims. Like sexism, it seems to me a prime area where those opposed to it (regardless of gender) should be working together to combat it, rather than separating into male and female factions.

spurious

I had a male friend who (almost 18 years ago now) was being beaten by his wife. He knew well she wanted him to hit her back so she could paint him as the bad guy but he never did. She mainly specialised in psychological abuse, but occasionally she hit him too.

One evening after he had been struck with a poker, myself and another friend persuaded him to go to the guards. He was terrified they would laugh at him, but to their credit (and this was a long time ago) he was met with professionalism all the way by the guards in Clontarf station.

Monty Burnz

spurious wrote: »

One evening after he had been struck with a poker, myself and another friend persuaded him to go to the guards. He was terrified they would laugh at him, but to their credit (and this was a long time ago) he was met with professionalism all the way by the guards in Clontarf station.

How does that story end? Did they sort out their problems? Or did your friend lose his kids and his home?

LittleBook

kyedhen.female wrote: »

I find this type of response absolutely repulsive.

I find most of the responses on late night radio phone-ins repulsive to be honest. :rolleyes:

No-one in their right mind thinks that abuse of anyone, old or young, male or female, is acceptable or excusable.

Dudess

kyedhen.female wrote: »

What I want to know is, do these two represent the general female opinion?

No, of course not. Only according to the bitter "Men are second class citizens these days" brigade.

Did a postgrad study on it - it's still a hidden problem beleaguered with obstacles, socio-cultural and legal, unfortunately. I heard some very sad, horrendous stories. What they all agreed though was: the most agonising abuse of all, worse than any physical attack, any cruel words, any made-up allegations... was using the children against them, and taking advantage of this country's crap system for fathers' parental access.

What kind of a person would do that...?

Monty Burnz

Dudess wrote: »

Only according to the bitter "Men are second class citizens these days" brigade.

Sigh.

I see you've edited your post to clarify your position, so I'll retract my sigh somewhat. But it's depressing that any attempt to raise issues where men are victims of sexism etc. result in being labelled part of a 'bitter brigade'. Sexism isn't only wrong when women are at the sharp end, and the area of family law that you've highlighted is a classic example of sexism where men are the victims.

Dudess

Post edited. You can be sure, MB, there is a small but vocal coterie of people who would use those two women as a stick to beat all women with.

Monty Burnz

Dudess wrote: »

Post edited. You can be sure, MB, there is a small but vocal coterie of people who would use those two women as a stick to beat all women with.

Well, as Logical Fallacy pointed out, there's no doubt that those two women were either deliberately chosen to get the phone lines hopping, or else they weren't genuine callers at all, but staffers or contacts who were briefed on what to say for the exact same reason.

I've a friend who is a producer for one of these phone-in shows (a rather more reputable one) and I've heard plenty of accounts of what goes on behind the scenes.

Links234

I find that female on male abuse, just like female on male sexual abuse, is scoffed at and dismissed by men more often than not. I find it utterly reprehensible when I see some news story linked in AH, of some young guy being sexually abused by a woman, and the respondents saying "niiice" (a-la south park) and "lucky bastard" and all that. female on male abuse, sexual or otherwise, will continue to be taken much less seriously as long as these attitudes hold with men.

spurious

Monty Burnz wrote: »

How does that story end? Did they sort out their problems? Or did your friend lose his kids and his home?

I'm conscious of not giving details that might identify the people involved, but they eventually ended up splitting. The kids within a few years were old enough to decide for themselves what their mother was like.

His standing up for himself seemed to send her into a rage for a month or so, where the carefully constructed suit of 'niceness' she had constructed for herself fell apart and the world saw her true colours.

They both went on to other more successful relationships. No criminal charges were ever pursued.

Monty Burnz

Links234 wrote: »

female on male abuse, sexual or otherwise, will continue to be taken much less seriously as long as these attitudes hold with men.

I think that this is the point in the discussion where, traditionally, we'd roll out the accusation of 'blaming the victims'.

Logical Fallacy

Monty Burnz wrote: »

I think that this is the point in the discussion where, traditionally, we'd roll out the accusation of 'blaming the victims'.

I think Links is right, for one reason or another a lot of men will laugh off the idea of female on male abuse. I don't know if they just don't see the reality in it or it makes them uncomfortable and they try and deal with it through humour.

Monty Burnz

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

I think Links is right, for one reason or another a lot of men will laugh off the idea of female on male abuse. I don't know if they just don't see the reality in it or it makes them uncomfortable and they try and deal with it through humour.

There's certainly a grain of truth in it with regard to - say - a female teacher having sex with a student. That's certainly not perceived as harmful (whether or not it is in actuality). But - and maybe this reflects my peer group and life experience - I don't know of any guy who would laugh at or mock a friend who was attacked by his partner.

Links234

Monty Burnz wrote: »

I think that this is the point in the discussion where, traditionally, we'd roll out the accusation of 'blaming the victims'.

I'm sorry if it comes across that way, I am in no way condoning or excusing any abuse, or am I trying to place the blame for abuses at the feet of the victims, I'm attempting to highlight the cultural attitudes that allow these abuses to be taken far less seriously, and add to a culture of shame surrounding the victims.

Dudess

Monty Burnz wrote: »

it's depressing that any attempt to raise issues where men are victims of sexism etc. result in being labelled part of a 'bitter brigade'.

I know the feeling, but hang on a sec there. Where did I do that? I specifically answered the OP's question, a question I felt was a bit... off and really shouldn't have to be asked: "Do these two represent the general female opinion?" Nobody but the fanatics I'm talking about would agree that they do.

But as for bringing up men experiencing sh1te because of being men... bring it on. It's something that doesn't get discussed enough - sensibly at least. I object though to it being framed in a hostile, accusatory "Men get nothing but abuse these days and women have it easy" manner though, which is quite prevalent on Boards unfortunately... Men do indeed have to put up with discrimination in certain areas, but that shouldn't be carte blanche for a bitchfest about women.

Logical Fallacy

Monty Burnz wrote: »

There's certainly a grain of truth in it with regard to - say - a female teacher having sex with a student. That's certainly not perceived as harmful (whether or not it is in actuality). But - and maybe this reflects my peer group and life experience - I don't know of any guy who would laugh at or mock a friend who was attacked by his partner.

It's not so much the attitude at the point of revelation so much as the perception of attitude in general. Like lets say the way a joke about something risque could be funny, but if you know that someone in the group has experienced it for real you won't tell the joke.

Monty Burnz

Links234 wrote: »

I'm attempting to highlight the cultural attitudes that allow these abuses to be taken far less seriously, and add to a culture of shame surrounding the victims.

Dudess wrote: »

But as for bringing up men experiencing sh1te because of being men... bring it on. It's something that doesn't get discussed enough - sensibly at least. I object though to it being framed in a hostile, accusatory "Men get nothing but abuse these days and women have it easy" manner though, which is quite prevalent on Boards unfortunately... Men do indeed have to put up with discrimination in certain areas, but that shouldn't be carte blanche for a bitchfest about women.

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

It's not so much the attitude at the point of revelation so much as the perception of attitude in general. Like lets say the way a joke about something risque could be funny, but if you know that someone in the group has experienced it for real you won't tell the joke.

Fair points all.

Sonics2k

In an old relationship, my ex would frequently throw things at me, take swings at me, push me and try to get me to take a temper out on her.

We were virtually on the verge of separating at the time, and she had refused to sign a declaration granting me equal rights to our children.

Now, despite my being a foot taller than her, she was frequently aggressive and would hit me in the face and chest to provoke a reaction, knowing full well if I did hit back it would ruin my chances of getting equal access to our children, and I knew it too.

Some women do this intentionally to try and make the man out as the "bad guy", so when the separate more people will take their side.

I can say in all honesty, I pushed her once, but only because she was about to hit me over the head. And yes, she did try using it against me later on, claiming I was abusive.
As everyone we knew said though, including her father, if I had really hit her, she'd be probably end up in a hospital.

CathyMoran

I saw my late mother hit my daddy a lot but she mainly hit me. My daddy ignored the abuse of me an put up with my mother hitting him. I do remember him saying that he was afraid that he would loose us if he left. In this case my mother had health issues that my daddy ignored and did not help her get treated but there is no excuse for the violence that she inflicted on me and my daddy. I was always afraid that I would turn out like her but thankfully I only look like her.

Hazys

Links234 wrote: »

I find that female on male abuse, just like female on male sexual abuse, is scoffed at and dismissed by men more often than not. I find it utterly reprehensible when I see some news story linked in AH, of some young guy being sexually abused by a woman, and the respondents saying "niiice" (a-la south park) and "lucky bastard" and all that. female on male abuse, sexual or otherwise, will continue to be taken much less seriously as long as these attitudes hold with men.

I think its culture that form attitudes rather what sex you are.

I think its unfair to say its mostly men who dismiss female on male violence, because its as much women who dismiss female on male violence like the examples in the OP.

In muslim countries you'd think its all men who force second class status on women, but the majority of the women accept their role and believe its correct. Even in Ireland where its was illegal for married women to have a job, that view would have been held by both parents if their daughter got married.

Artur Foden

Great to read the responses here. Very reassuring to hear that women in general deeply understand the situation some men face.

If I may though, I disagree that men aren't understanding of male abuse enough, and that this is why the problem continues. As far as I'm concerned it is dependant on the media, and therapists to highlight this issue.

Media has done a great job of getting a message across to women and girls that they should never stand any form of abuse from family or partners. Such as these stories you hear that a women realised she was being abused only after seeing the same thing happen to a character on Eastenders.

If everyone knew the full extent of male abuse then this issue of 'afraid of being laughed at by his mates' would disappear.

daenerysstormborn3

Sonics2k wrote: »

In an old relationship, my ex would frequently throw things at me, take swings at me, push me and try to get me to take a temper out on her.

We were virtually on the verge of separating at the time, and she had refused to sign a declaration granting me equal rights to our children.

Now, despite my being a foot taller than her, she was frequently aggressive and would hit me in the face and chest to provoke a reaction, knowing full well if I did hit back it would ruin my chances of getting equal access to our children, and I knew it too.

Some women do this intentionally to try and make the man out as the "bad guy", so when the separate more people will take their side.

I can say in all honesty, I pushed her once, but only because she was about to hit me over the head. And yes, she did try using it against me later on, claiming I was abusive.
As everyone we knew said though, including her father, if I had really hit her, she'd be probably end up in a hospital.

Unfortunately, my boyfriend found himself in a similar situation to that. The kids involved weren't his luckily so it wasn't such a struggle to get out. His ex would regularly push him to the point where he would have his fists clenched and he would leave the room, leave the house, drive away so that he wouldn't do exactly what she wanted. She would then pick another fight with him because how dare he leave her house :rolleyes:

I think the opinions of those two callers is disgusting but as other posters have pointed out I wouldn't expect anything less of that trash radio show.

K-9

pixiebean22 wrote: »

Unfortunately, my boyfriend found himself in a similar situation to that. The kids involved weren't his luckily so it wasn't such a struggle to get out. His ex would regularly push him to the point where he would have his fists clenched and he would leave the room, leave the house, drive away so that he wouldn't do exactly what she wanted. She would then pick another fight with him because how dare he leave her house :rolleyes:

I think the opinions of those two callers is disgusting but as other posters have pointed out I wouldn't expect anything less of that trash radio show.

Without going into details, I get the impression and experience that female on male domestic violence tends to focus on the mental side. It can be very physical but the target is the mental strength of a man.

Male on female violence tends to be physical.

This would be the extreme ends of DV.

jill_valentine

Just echoing what the others have said, nobody deserves an abusive relationship, and the woman described in the OP is a despicable halfwit.

Even uglier stuff when there are kids involved too, yes.

goose2005

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

I imagine it was Adrian Kennedy show...i have to say that in general i find that guy reprehensible and his Phone In Show is a joke. They would have picked those two women purely because they had contentious opinions...I am willing to bet good money there were many female callers saying that they found female on male physical abuse disgusting but they never would have made it on the air.

Also, phone-in shows are there to create drama and aggro, not to discuss things. I wouldn't be surprised if one (or both) were actors.

ixoy

Here's an interesting video on the topic:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGZIQaCaW0I

It takes ages before anyone intervenes - even a cop passes by. One of the women even appears to silently cheer and a number think that he must've done something to deserve it.
About the only saving grace from the situation is that, when someone finally intervenes, it's a group of women.

Monty Burnz

ixoy wrote: »

It takes ages before anyone intervenes - even a cop passes by. One of the women even appears to silently cheer and a number think that he must've done something to deserve it.

The 'blame the victim' mentality. It's not acceptable when a man attacks or rapes a woman, but it is acceptable when a woman attacks a man.

Stargazer7

Links234 wrote: »

I find that female on male abuse, just like female on male sexual abuse, is scoffed at and dismissed by men more often than not. I find it utterly reprehensible when I see some news story linked in AH, of some young guy being sexually abused by a woman, and the respondents saying "niiice" (a-la south park) and "lucky bastard" and all that. female on male abuse, sexual or otherwise, will continue to be taken much less seriously as long as these attitudes hold with men.

That view drives me crazy! I was thinking of going to see the movie horrible bosses with a friend who was dying to see it but I can't stand the idea of paying money to watch a movie where they make fun of female on male sexual harassment. The media seem to portray it as "hilarious" and somehow a turn on cos it's Jennifer Anniston doing the harassing...I just don't get it. Turn the tables and the guy would be labelled a "perve" and a "monster". Crazy double standards.