Drico at 12 for WC?

conno16

this looks like a possibility in my opinion
it will prob become more than a possibility of darcy is ruled out
i'm not convinced
i realised drico floats in and out of 12/13 but i think i would prefer to see him parked initially at 13
does that mean however that paddy wallace is the natural partner?
again, this leaves me a little uncomfortable.

Who would play outside him? McFadden?

If that was the case, I'd prefer to see them line up with McFadden with 12 on his back. Either way they will chop and change exactly how D'Arcy and O'Driscoll do anyway, so it's a fairly moot point.

totallegend

conno16 wrote: »

Drico at 12 for WC?UOTE]

No.

You play your best players in their best positions; if you have a gap, you fill it with the next best alternative.
If D'Arcy isn't fit, you slot it in either Wallace or McFadden; both decent options at 12, no need to move the best #13 we have ever had inside.

Tomtom364

totallegend wrote: »

No.

You play your best players in their best positions; if you have a gap, you fill it with the next best alternative.
If D'Arcy isn't fit, you slot it in either Wallace or McFadden; both decent options at 12, no need to move the best #13 we have ever had inside.

could make the argument that BOD dosnt have enough pace for 13 anymore and that now 12 might actually suit him better.

fitz

totallegend wrote: »

could make the argument that BOD dosnt have enough pace for 13 anymore and that now 12 might actually suit him better.

You could also make the argument that what BOD lacks in pace these days, he more than makes up for in his positional sense, the lines he runs, and his preternatural awesomeness at 13.

I'd like to see him tried at 12, but not until after the World Cup.

Tomtom364

fitz wrote: »

You could also make the argument that what BOD lacks in pace these days, he more than makes up for in his positional sense, the lines he runs, and his preternatural awesomeness at 13.

I'd like to see him tried at 12, but not until after the World Cup.

Ya might be best to keep it till after the world cup. but it has to be looked at, BOD at 12 could create alot of chances for a flyer at 13 to finish.

siltirocker

Wallace 12
O'Driscoll 13

McFadden 22

Problem solved.

yimrsg

Tomtom364 wrote: »

totallegend wrote: »

could make the argument that BOD dosnt have enough pace for 13 anymore and that now 12 might actually suit him better.

The only time I can think of him being exposed for pace was by Foden in the HC final where he wasn't anything near 100%. Defensively he's our best centre and I'd be loathe to move him. D'arcy is a better ball carrier at making hard yards at 12, though for whatever reason BOD is much more adept at making yards in the opposition redzone.

ionadnapokot

12 Doesnt suit him better.
As you rightly point out he will continue to alternate in certain situations. If Darcy doesnt make it. Then it will be McFadden that will start at 12. Wallace will still be on the bench to meet the Ulster quota.

Tomtom364

yimrsg wrote: »

The only time I can think of him being exposed for pace was by Foden in the HC final where he wasn't anything near 100%. Defensively he's our best centre and I'd be loathe to move him. D'arcy is a better ball carrier at making hard yards at 12, though for whatever reason BOD is much more adept at making yards in the opposition redzone.

he has made a few breaks that could very well have resulted in more if he still had a bit more pace.
his break against munster in the magners final is the most recent example of that i can think of, howlett easily had him covered of course but lets exclude him for this example, but both murray and mafi could have caught him before the line.

CatFromHue

Hasn't this been tried before?

I'm thinking around the time that D'arcy became first choice for Ireland and himself and BOD played around at which centre position they played in.

GerM

People are leaving out a large aspect of the game. 13 is one of the most awkward positions to defend. There's a wide channel often between the 13 and the wing which leaves a big gap. The positional play and awareness of the player there is very important. BOD is a key decision maker in our defensive pattern and you'll often seeing him making the decision to come out of the line to cut off opposition spreading the ball wide. If someone does this at the wrong time, it leaves a big gap for a fleet footed attacker to slip through. If anyone saw Bowe at 13 for the Ospreys in the Liberty against Munster they'll have seen him do it badly in the first half which nearly saw Earls in for a try. Or Earls himself in the semi in 2009 when he came out a fraction indecisively and BOD exposed him to put Nacewa through for Darce's try. With BOD's experience and rugby brain it would be very risky to move him out of there.

yimrsg

Tomtom364 wrote: »

he has made a few breaks that could very well have resulted in more if he still had a bit more pace.
his break against munster in the magners final is the most recent example of that i can think of, howlett easily had him covered of course but lets exclude him for this example, but both murray and mafi could have caught him before the line.

You could also say the inverse that if he was too fast the support to a break wouldn't arrive in time and he'd get isolated but by being slower he's more likely to have support. From your superior recollection of that break it sounds like he'd have to outrun 3 players, I'd say there would be very few in the Irish setup with the pace to burn 3 players.

totallegend

I wonder if, somewhere in New Zealand, there's a bunch of lads on an internet forum debating whether Dan Carter should be moved to full-back. I doubt it.

We have the best #13 in Europe, arguably the world with no real back-up, whereas we have plenty of depth at 12.

Non-issue, move along folks.

yimrsg

totallegend wrote: »

I wonder if, somewhere in New Zealand, there's a bunch of lads on an internet forum debating whether Dan Carter should be moved to full-back. I doubt it.

We have the best #13 in Europe, arguably the world with no real back-up, whereas we have plenty of depth at 12.

Non-issue, move along folks.

Personally I'd think he'd revolutionise the game at tight head, there really is a paucity in kicking tight heads these days.

twinytwo

Tomtom364 wrote: »

could make the argument that BOD dosnt have enough pace for 13 anymore and that now 12 might actually suit him better.

while this may be the case, move drico to 12 and we have to put someone into 13 with no international experience at OC.... as i have previously argued this is not what you want at a WC.

Gracelessly Tom

Tomtom364 wrote: »

he has made a few breaks that could very well have resulted in more if he still had a bit more pace.
his break against munster in the magners final is the most recent example of that i can think of, howlett easily had him covered of course but lets exclude him for this example, but both murray and mafi could have caught him before the line.

But what you're forgetting is that there are very few players out there who would have the ability, skill and vision to make those breaks!

He might not have the pace of old but his brain is as sharp as ever, a speedster centre may never have even envisaged BOD's breaks.

conno16

Tomtom364 wrote: »

BOD at 12 could create alot of chances for a flyer at 13 to finish.

enter keith earls i think
problem solved

13 Earls (back-up = mcfadden)
12 Bod (back-up = wallace / darcy)

thomond2006

conno16 wrote: »

enter keith earls i think
problem solved

13 Earls (back-up = mcfadden)
12 Bod (back-up = wallace / darcy)

Earls is NOT a centre. Why you would move one of Ireland's best wingers to 13 and move the world's best 13 to 12 is beyond me.

Mcfadden should be 12 ahead of Wallace imo
Keeping O'Driscoll 13

I think I'm not alone in having had that inkling when I originally read the thread title what this was going to lead to...

Earls hasn't performed at a competitive level at 13 since U20s. Instead he's mastered the left wing, and shown some decent skills at FB. But some people believe that that's not good enough, and they'd rather take him out of his comfort zone and put him back into the place where his main weaknesses (his defensive awareness and his inability to pass) are shown up over and over again.

11. Keith Earls

A line I'm happy to see printed over and over again

13. Keith Earls

Not so much

Dermo

AdamD wrote: »

Mcfadden should be 12 ahead of Wallace imo

and both of them behind D'Arcy

siltirocker

AdamD wrote: »

Mcfadden should be 12 ahead of Wallace imo
Keeping O'Driscoll 13

I can't see how anyone could come to that conclusion. Could you clarify?

bamboozle

BOD's passing & kicking are not his strongest points, both prime requirements for a 12, he's a 13 plain and simple.

McFadden or Wallace would fill in at 12 no problems.

siltirocker

siltirocker wrote: »

I can't see how anyone could come to that conclusion. Could you clarify?

I think that McFadden would make a better 12 than Wallace, hardly rocket science..

Stev_o

bamboozle wrote: »

BOD's passing & kicking are not his strongest points, both prime requirements for a 12, he's a 13 plain and simple.

McFadden or Wallace would fill in at 12 no problems.

McFadden isn't noted as a talented distributor either, he's far better running into space then he is then hammering the line over and over again.

What injury is BOD suffering from at the moment? Hamstring? If it is and if he does go into the RWC carrying that injury then it's a very valid point, he'll be consistently burned by defences playing at 13 with a botched leg.

CatFromHue

I think Bod has a neck injury at the moment.

conno16

think hes going to the cinema tomorrow
had prior plans

siltirocker

AdamD wrote: »

I think that McFadden would make a better 12 than Wallace, hardly rocket science..

No need for the ignorance buddy. You came out with an obscure point and im wondering if you'll clarify.

It's not like saying I think "O'Driscoll is better than Earls at 13". Everyone knows this and agrees. The majority of people would play Wallace first, you would play McFadden ahead of him. I am curious as to what you believe makes Leinster's once capped winger better than Ireland's Grand Slam starting inside centre who is renowed for performing in Antipodean games.

Kicking? Passing? Defense?

GavMan

McFadden would play a lot of 12 when he plays with O'Malley at Leinster.

He can definitely play 12 and 13 so why move the best 13 in world rugby history....

Podge_irl

McFadden is much closer to a like for like replacement for D'Arcy. It depends on what game plan Ireland use. They've used Wallace fairly poorly any time he's played recently imo.

Gracelessly Tom

siltirocker wrote: »

No need for the ignorance buddy. You came out with an obscure point and im wondering if you'll clarify.

It's not like saying I think "O'Driscoll is better than Earls at 13". Everyone knows this and agrees. The majority of people would play Wallace first, you would play McFadden ahead of him. I am curious as to what you believe makes Leinster's once capped winger better than Ireland's Grand Slam starting inside centre who is renowed for performing in Antipodean games.

Kicking? Passing? Defense?

Eh, he was only starting due to D'Arcy coming back off injury and he didn't start the last two games of the GS.

Also, this was two and a half years ago, McFadden wasn't even thought of at that stage, saying he's our starting GS centre is like saying Fitzgerald our Lions winger should be in ahead of Trimble despite form saying otherwise.

You're right on the Antipodean point, he has a remarkable aptitude for these games!

Monty Burnz

Podge_irl wrote: »

McFadden is much closer to a like for like replacement for D'Arcy. It depends on what game plan Ireland use. They've used Wallace fairly poorly any time he's played recently imo.

Odds on Wallace leaving the field with a bleeding head wound in any given international?

Beanmachine

Saw OP's name, Lol'd, Left thread

basillarkin

GerM wrote: »

People are leaving out a large aspect of the game. 13 is one of the most awkward positions to defend. There's a wide channel often between the 13 and the wing which leaves a big gap. The positional play and awareness of the player there is very important. BOD is a key decision maker in our defensive pattern and you'll often seeing him making the decision to come out of the line to cut off opposition spreading the ball wide. If someone does this at the wrong time, it leaves a big gap for a fleet footed attacker to slip through. If anyone saw Bowe at 13 for the Ospreys in the Liberty against Munster they'll have seen him do it badly in the first half which nearly saw Earls in for a try. Or Earls himself in the semi in 2009 when he came out a fraction indecisively and BOD exposed him to put Nacewa through for Darce's try. With BOD's experience and rugby brain it would be very risky to move him out of there.

You are right about defending at 13, I play there for my club, it is nice playing there going forward but can be a nightmare to defend at times, talk is key in defence but if Drico is coming out of the line, he nearly always gets his man, a class 13, one of the best, no need to start him at 12.

twinytwo

bamboozle wrote: »

BOD's passing & kicking are not his strongest points, both prime requirements for a 12, he's a 13 plain and simple.

McFadden or Wallace would fill in at 12 no problems.

Drico's passing is very strong... he puts the ball exactly where it needs to be... as for kicking his isnt bad, i wouldnt say its required to play 12 not anymore... darcy, nonu, devillers, roberts all class 12's.. none can kick worth a dam.

the only time you get 12's that can kick are guys like giteau who play 10/12

siltirocker

siltirocker wrote: »

No need for the ignorance buddy. You came out with an obscure point and im wondering if you'll clarify.

It's not like saying I think "O'Driscoll is better than Earls at 13". Everyone knows this and agrees. The majority of people would play Wallace first, you would play McFadden ahead of him. I am curious as to what you believe makes Leinster's once capped winger better than Ireland's Grand Slam starting inside centre who is renowed for performing in Antipodean games.

Kicking? Passing? Defense?

Podge_irl wrote: »

McFadden is much closer to a like for like replacement for D'Arcy. It depends on what game plan Ireland use. They've used Wallace fairly poorly any time he's played recently imo.

This pretty much sums it up. And I highly doubt that 'the majority of people would play Wallace first', hes not that popular a choice

CIARAN_BOYLE

Wallace is the best second five eights in Ireland. Problem is that the Irish game plan doesn't call for a second five eights which often leaves Wallace in trouble.

For the purpose of keeping game plan as close to the same as possible as you would have with D'arcy I would pick McFadden. If I want to play with a second five eights I would play Wallace. I wouldn't want to shift my game plan cause D'arcy is injured.

RogerThis

What about tommy bowe at 13? He has played for the hairspray's at 13. He never seem to get enough ball when playing for Ireland.

CIARAN_BOYLE

RogerThis wrote: »

What about tommy bowe at 13? He has played for the hairspray's at 13. He never seem to get enough ball when playing for Ireland.

Its fine offensively but he isn't great defensively as a 13

Cpt_Blackbeard

With D'Arcy's injury, it might make sense to try BOD at 12. I've wanted to see him inside Bowe/Earls* for quite a while; I think that it would/should work pretty well. I would still have BOD defending the 13 channel.

If Ireland used Wallace like the second five eight that he is, there would be no reason to move BOD inside. Instead, Ireland use him as the same direct 12 that D'Arcy is/has become. Provided that Wallace finds form, he would be the best option we have to ensure our back 3 gets the ball in space.

*I still believe that Earls could work out well at 13, now that he is both fit and full of confidence. Its his preferred position, so I'm sure that he considers it his best.

theboss80

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

With D'Arcy's injury, it might make sense to try BOD at 12. I've wanted to see him inside Bowe/Earls* for quite a while;.

:pac::pac::pac::pac::pac:

Podge_irl

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

*I still believe that Earls could work out well at 13, now that he is both fit and full of confidence. Its his preferred position, so I'm sure that he considers it his best.

And Fitzgerald considers 15 his best position. Doesn't make it true. Earls has never impressed at 13. He shows moments in attack but is all at sea in defence. He needs to settle in a position and stick with that.

Quint2010

Tommy Bowe can easily play 12. We have plenty of options on the wing so he wouldnt be a great loss there.

GerM

twinytwo wrote: »

Drico's passing is very strong... he puts the ball exactly where it needs to be... as for kicking his isnt bad, i wouldnt say its required to play 12 not anymore... darcy, nonu, devillers, roberts all class 12's.. none can kick worth a dam.

BOD's passing isn't very strong. He's a poor passer off his left. Multiple time I've seen him try to take the attack on himself or crab sideways to shorten the pass. When he does throw a pass of more than a few metres it's a lottery as seen when he passed to McFadden in Italy. He's a decent passer off his right, nothing special though. You'll rarely see him put someone away with a pass. It's his offloading and sleight of hand that is top class.

skregs

GerM wrote: »

BOD's passing isn't very strong. He's a poor passer off his left. Multiple time I've seen him try to take the attack on himself or crab sideways to shorten the pass. When he does throw a pass of more than a few metres it's a lottery as seen when he passed to McFadden in Italy. He's a decent passer off his right, nothing special though. You'll rarely see him put someone away with a pass. It's his offloading... that is top class.

ROG's kicking isn't very strong. It's his hitting the ball with his foot that is top class

McCaw's counter-rucking isn't very strong. It's his turnovers at the breakdown that is top class

You know what an offload is, right?

Cpt_Blackbeard

skregs wrote: »

ROG's kicking isn't very strong. It's his hitting the ball with his foot that is top class

McCaw's counter-rucking isn't very strong. It's his turnovers at the breakdown that is top class

You know what an offload is, right?

:rolleyes:

There is a big difference between an offload to a player on your shoulder and a 30m skip pass to a winger, whilst running at full tilt.

wixfjord

skregs wrote: »

ROG's kicking isn't very strong. It's his hitting the ball with his foot that is top class

McCaw's counter-rucking isn't very strong. It's his turnovers at the breakdown that is top class

You know what an offload is, right?

Are you serious?!

Gracelessly Tom

skregs wrote: »

ROG's kicking isn't very strong. It's his hitting the ball with his foot that is top class

McCaw's counter-rucking isn't very strong. It's his turnovers at the breakdown that is top class

You know what an offload is, right?

Clearly you don't.

GerM

skregs wrote: »

You know what an offload is, right?

I believe it's an old wooden ship that was used in the civil war era.

MoneyMilo

siltirocker wrote: »

No need for the ignorance buddy. You came out with an obscure point and im wondering if you'll clarify.

It's not like saying I think "O'Driscoll is better than Earls at 13". Everyone knows this and agrees. The majority of people would play Wallace first, you would play McFadden ahead of him. I am curious as to what you believe makes Leinster's once capped winger better than Ireland's Grand Slam starting inside centre who is renowed for performing in Antipodean games.

Kicking? Passing? Defense?

McFadden's defence is undoubtedly better than Wallace's; he can tackle very well (albeit he was at positional fault yesterday), whereas Wallace is poor (see Morrison's consistent progress through Wallace)

The 'playmaker extraordinaire' moniker constantly attached to Wallace is laughable. His adequate ability at passing a ball seems to be used to counter all of his other deficiencies. (Although, I seem to remember him not being able to perform a straightforward drawing of the man and pass against Wales...)

"Ireland's Grand Slam starting inside centre who is renowed for performing in Antipodean games."

Ah come on, you're not serious are you? Wallace hardly has a fearsome reputation in the SH now. I don't think sheep farmers in Taranaki talk with awe of his mighty 2 yard effort against New Zealand a few years ago..