Irish Airsoft Association

TommyKnocker

Just wondering if the Irish Airsoft Association is still around or not?

Noticed Ads for the IAA in the sigs of some folks who post here and checked it out. Went to sign up and although I chose paypal as the payment method and upload a photo, my registration is not processed properly.

Checked out the forum and it does not appear to be active, as not too many recent posts.

I did notice that there was a post from last year about issues with paypal payments not being processed and it took 8 or 9 months to resolve. The paypal issue was said to be resolved last november, but it appears to be no longer working.

I have sent an email to IAA, but no response yet. So I thought I would ask here.

TIA

Faolchu

i sent them an email last week or so asking a question about something and they replied within 24 hours so someone is monitoring their email address.

Firekitten

The IAA is still operating, that much is for sure. Technical issues with the website are another matter.

bullets

I'm still waiting on this years membership card, last I heard there was some issue with either the printing machine or the current committee did not get the machine yet maybe from the old members ?? The Paypal payment worked fine when I renewed a while back, so that issue was resolved (before it would not let you) EDIT but that was a few months back so things may have changed again. Lot of vacant positions on it at the moment which is a shame.

~B

BioHazRd

We have the printer now and I am processing the memberships in a strictly chronological order. We will get all applications processed as soon as possible. I apologise for the delay but the circumstances were beyond our control.
The IAA is still active, though with such a small committee we are limited in what we can do as we all have jobs and can only do this in our limited free time.
If you have an urgent issue or a particular question that you would like answered, please mail us at info@ irishairsoft.ie and we will get back to you as quick as we can.

Rich

fayer

BioHazRd wrote: »

We have the printer now and I am processing the memberships in a strictly chronological order. We will get all applications processed as soon as possible. I apologise for the delay but the circumstances were beyond our control.
The IAA is still active, though with such a small committee we are limited in what we can do as we all have jobs and can only do this in our limited free time.
If you have an urgent issue or a particular question that you would like answered, please mail us at info@ irishairsoft.ie and we will get back to you as quick as we can.

Rich

Why did it take so long to get the printer back?

gerrowadat

Cheers for deleting my posts, mods! I see the bad old days are still very much with us.

Sparks

gerrowadat wrote: »

Cheers for deleting my posts, mods! I see the bad old days are still very much with us.

The mods didn't delete your posts, I did, because oddly enough defamation is against the Defamation Act and when its reported, boards.ie has a legal duty to act on it.
As far as I am aware, the local mods haven't had a chance to review your posts yet.

gerrowadat

Sparks wrote: »

The mods didn't delete your posts, I did, because oddly enough defamation is against the Defamation Act and when its reported, boards.ie has a legal duty to act on it.
As far as I am aware, the local mods haven't had a chance to review your posts yet.

Defamation needs to be false. What I've said is well-documented, and was covered in the 2011 IAA AGM.

If I do a really stupid, misguided thing, can I then report any posts mentioning it for defamation?

moggser

Sparks

gerrowadat wrote: »

Defamation needs to be false. What I've said is well-documented, and was covered in the 2011 IAA AGM.

In which case posting an offical copy of the minutes of that AGM would not have been defamatory (or rather, would have been something between the IAA and the individual mentioned). However, that's not what you posted.

gerrowadat

Sparks wrote: »

In which case posting an offical copy of the minutes of that AGM would not have been defamatory (or rather, would have been something between the IAA and the individual mentioned). However, that's not what you posted.

Wait, so I now have to cite and reference everything I post for fact checking. What is this, wikipedia?

Fact: <snip>: http://irishairsoft.ie/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/IAAAGMMinutesJan2011.pdf

Fact: <snip>.

Fact: <snip>.

How's that?

Sparks

gerrowadat wrote: »

If I do a really stupid, misguided thing, can I then report any posts mentioning it for defamation?

Actually, yes.
Under Irish law, you can bring a defamation suit against someone for stating a true fact; the onus is then on the defendant to prove the truth of the matter in court. Want to take a shot at guessing how much proving something in court costs?

The only exceptions are things that are privileged speech; posting an AGM's minutes could be argued to be covered by that - and just saying "I know so-and-so did such-and-such" doesn't count as even that.

gerrowadat

Sparks wrote: »

Actually, yes.
Under Irish law, you can bring a defamation suit against someone for stating a true fact; the onus is then on the defendant to prove the truth of the matter in court. Want to take a shot at guessing how much proving something in court costs?

About as much as a defamation suit costs, which, unless barristers have started taking food stamps, is more than the average boards user can afford.

Sparks

gerrowadat wrote: »

Wait, so I now have to cite and reference everything I post for fact checking. What is this, wikipedia?

No, this is a public forum in a jurisdiction that has the Defamation Act 2009 as part of its legislation.

Fact: <snip>: http://irishairsoft.ie/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/IAAAGMMinutesJan2011.pdf

That is not a fact, it's an editorial statement about an internal audit on the IAA membership.
And your other two facts would only be facts if you were testifying under oath in a court; right now, you're posting pseudo-anonymously on an internet forum, which isn't exactly the gold standard for witness testimony (and in fact your last "fact" is the definition of hearsay).

Sparks

In fact, I don't see this going anywhere that doesn't get someone sued, so I'm going to lock this thread pending a discussion with the local mods.
If you really do feel so strongly about this gerrowadat, it's the Gardai you should be contacting, not boards.ie.

Steve

Gerrowadat, Moggser & Doc: posting facts is fine - nobody will argue the truth. Posting your opinion needs a bit more thought on your side lads - ffs, look at it from our side the odd time.
I'm trying to be fair to all here, any more blatant IAA bashing will lead to bans. Discussion in an open minded manner is fine and welcomed as long as it's kept to that.

Lest we be accused of censorship yet again, I'm prepared to re-open this for discussion but be warned, there wil be no prisoners taken. Discussion is fine, slagging/snide comments = ban, the mods' decision is final - be careful what you post.

TommyKnocker

OP here

In my OP I asked if the IAA were still active and if anybody knew if the problems that they appear to have had last year with Paypal processing has resurfaced.

@ Faolchu, Firekitten, bullets & BioHazRd: Thank you for answering at least the first part of my question.

@ Sparks & Steve: Apologies for this thread turning into something that required moderation.

Personally I think that anybody who has a axe to grind with the IAA or its committee members should contact the IAA or said member(s) directly or even open up a thread of their own and not hijack threads and take them off topic for their own ends.

@ Forum Mods: This response is in no way meant as back seat modding and sincere apologies if it comes across like that.

I now know that the IAA is still around, and as I said in my OP I have emailed them asking about the Paypal issue, so hopefully I will get a response from them on that. If not I can wait a while untill BioHazRd clears the back log of memberships and then send in my application via snail mail.

So as the OP I have no issues with this thread being closed as my original question has been pretty much answered.

gerrowadat

Steve wrote: »

Gerrowadat, Moggser & Doc: posting facts is fine - nobody will argue the truth. Posting your opinion needs a bit more thought on your side lads - ffs, look at it from our side the odd time.
I'm trying to be fair to all here, any more blatant IAA bashing will lead to bans. Discussion in an open minded manner is fine and welcomed as long as it's kept to that.

I'm not IAA bashing. I know all the current committee well, and they're doing the best they can, despite the best efforts of THE BOOGY MAN.

cobra 08

Well I paid for a membership online done the photo thing never got anything. Emailed them got a couple of response's saying they where waiting on stuff from last committee. That was about Feb-march if I can recal.
Not much origination if you ask me.

Steve

TommyKnocker wrote: »

OP here
@ Sparks & Steve: Apologies for this thread turning into something that required moderation.

Don't worry about it, you didn't do anything wrong here

So as the OP I have no issues with this thread being closed as my original question has been pretty much answered.

I don't think we should close it yet, there are IAA committee members active here and hopefully they may volunteer some answers.

Airsoft Reloded

Lol, lol, lol :D:p:rolleyes:

That is all!

Steve

Airsoft Reloded wrote: »

Lol, lol, lol :D:p:rolleyes:

That is all!

Care to explain that?

Airsoft Reloded

Steve wrote: »

Care to explain that?

Well "LOL" stands for laugh out loud as far as I am aware and "That is all" is a statement mean't to explain the fact that; that is all I had to say.

Steve

Good, I thought for a sec it was a sarcastic comment. Glad it wasn't.

Airsoft Reloded

Steve wrote: »

Good, I thought for a sec it was a sarcastic comment. Glad it wasn't.

You've always been cool Steve, fair play man

DICEMAN7

Steve wrote: »

Don't worry about it, you didn't do anything wrong here

I don't think we should close it yet, there are IAA committee members active here and hopefully they may volunteer some answers.

<snip>

Steve

Lets stay on topic please.

DICEMAN7

DICEMAN7 wrote: »

<snip>

it may be pointless drivel to you.

andy_g

DICEMAN7 wrote: »

it may be pointless drivel to you.

Pointless drivel that drags the subject off topic.

Keep on topic or dont post, couldn't be easier.

TheDoc

Well, what exactly can we talk about here that is not going to get deleted, edited or have the thread locked?

There are some serious facts, reports and documentation around that pretty much 100% implicates bad **** going down.

The question was " Is the IAA still around or not", and that needs to be explored.

How an organisation who acheived a TREMENDOUS amount over 2-3 years which great commitees, started to go down hill, to a point where it seems for the past 18 months nothing has been done.

Nothing against the committee members there now, they are understaffed and have to allocate resources properly and effectively.

But I think its covering up the truth about how some of the former executive abused their position, were lazy, ineffective and unproductive and overall disruptive and damaging to the game, and the organisation.

I have pulled my IAA support, and membership after the activities that have took place, and as a MASSIVE supporter initially, its a relatively big deal.

So while I agree piss taking might best be avoided, the discussion of genuine events should be allowed to enable people to make informed decisions.

For example Gerrowdat has pretty much explained one of the major situations that developed within the IAA, and has given some documentation to support as such. And I guess within certain circles it was well known anyway, but it should be made known to others in my view.

And admins interjecting ( on the legal grounds again *yawn*) is a tad bit frustrating. Defamatory stuff and libelous stuff is to disable people from making wild accusations, not to protect people those in the wrong : /

And the above was only a small part of a bigger ****ball of **** that went on.

So maybe its best to get clarity now from moderators etc? Are we all going to be grown ups and discuss the situation, the outcomes and the organisation?

Or are we going to just cut everything that might stimulate intellgent debate, until we are left asking what snipers the IAA use .....

Steve

Doc, posts that got deleted were either:
1. Childish stupid comments (i.e. paedophilia accusations or comparisons to paramilitary organisations)
or
2. Accusations of wrongdoing against an identifiable individual.

1 is a no brainer.
2 is a bit more complex. Personally, I would think that discussion of what happened or what the current status of it is should be ok as long as the accusations on a personal level are not included. Sparks may overrule me on that one as he knows more about the legalities of it so I shall seek further advice before answering yes or no to that.

The topic of this thread is, as you said, whether or not the IAA is 'still around' so I think we should really focus on the present, not the past.

gerrowadat

Steve wrote: »

Doc, posts that got deleted were either:
1. Childish stupid comments (i.e. paedophilia accusations or comparisons to paramilitary organisations)
or
2. Accusations of wrongdoing against an identifiable individual.

1 is a no brainer.
2 is a bit more complex. Personally, I would think that discussion of what happened or what the current status of it is should be ok as long as the accusations on a personal level are not included. Sparks may overrule me on that one as he knows more about the legalities of it so I shall seek further advice before answering yes or no to that.

The topic of this thread is, as you said, whether or not the IAA is 'still around' so I think we should really focus on the present, not the past.

The trouble is that it's well-known that a previous committee member caused much of the issues with this year's committee being able to do anything. We could call them MISTER X or THE BOOGY MAN. Is that non personally identifiable enough?

Steve

gerrowadat wrote: »

The trouble is that it's well-known that a previous committee member caused much of the issues with this year's committee being able to do anything. We could call them MISTER X or THE BOOGY MAN. Is that non personally identifiable enough?

I'm not sure on that & have asked for advice in the mod forum. I'll let you know.

TheDoc

Steve wrote: »

Doc, posts that got deleted were either:
1. Childish stupid comments (i.e. paedophilia accusations or comparisons to paramilitary organisations)
or
2. Accusations of wrongdoing against an identifiable individual.

1 is a no brainer.
2 is a bit more complex. Personally, I would think that discussion of what happened or what the current status of it is should be ok as long as the accusations on a personal level are not included. Sparks may overrule me on that one as he knows more about the legalities of it so I shall seek further advice before answering yes or no to that.

The topic of this thread is, as you said, whether or not the IAA is 'still around' so I think we should really focus on the present, not the past.

Yeah in fairness the posts that got deleted of mine anyway was grand, to be pretty honest I thought the thread would get locked, so kudos for keeping it open.

But I disagree over the situation at hand. The events that have transpired in the past are heavily impacting the current commitee and the current organisation as a whole.

While there may be frowns on the name and shame, anyone who was a meber of the IAA is aware of the situation afaik and knows the two individuals involved.

Not to mention the people who attended the AGM, and recognised there lack of appearance due to some bollox they made up.

And then very publicy announcing that the new IAA commitee was elected incorrectly therefore creating "an unofficial organisation" which is in reference to the REAL IAA jokes that you see from time to time.

But I think it has a very, very strong impact and importance of where things have gone.

For example Mr.Boogey man pulled out a folder at an official meeting where there was printed pages of all my posts and was used to tackle the topic of which I was being recommended to come on board to help the IAA with some things.

So whilst I've retracted any interest in helping the IAA at this point, minutes of this meeting convienatly were lost, and no correspondance has come back. As far as I'm aware IAA documentation can be amde public by request, and since they have a folder on me ( well a past exec did) I'm very interested to see whats in this folder, what was discussed about me and why my online activity is a topic for debate.

I'm assuming the boogey man felt I'd give a bad reputation to the IAA with their online presence, but **** me I couldnt have done half the damage this lad did.

Its probably the singlest biggest thing to happen within the IAA history imo, in a negetive light and has compeltely overshadowed the good work the organisation has done, and has caused a mass exodus of support.

I also find it slightly double standards, again, that this sort of thing would get muted and subdued, where again it seems there is a different set of rules this forum compared to others. There are many threads across the fora which discuss the issues of organisations, issues that arise in them, in open debate.

I understand its because its people/groups in Ireland and for some reason, Boards.ie thinks everyone has a lawyer on speedial. In my time in airsoft, playing, or working in the game, I've been told I'm being sued about four-five times......still waiting....There does be alot more scandalous, libelous and outragous stuff posted on 90% of boards. Generally the stuff in here thats posted is the truth, its a small community, we kinda know waht goes on

gerrowadat

Ditto, I'e been threatened with being sued 3 times, been told I'm being investigated by the guards for explosive offenses once, told that if I visited a certain site I'd be singled out for assault, and had a veiled death threat passed on once or twice, too, most during my time in the IAA.

Did any of it actually happen? Did it ****. If there's one thing Airsoft sin't short of, it's fantasists.

I personally think if you run for public office, you give up any pretense of privacy with regard to how you act when representing the association. To apply any other standard is typical Irish may-I-remind-the-deputy bollocks. People make mistakes, but the ****ing underhanded and arrogant way this person went about it, and refusing to talk about it or answer for their behaviour afterwards was pathetic at best. The fact that boards is also aiding in their cowardice is also pretty galling.

It's not like I'm saying "This person sold poison milk to schoolchildren". I'm saying "This person had a mandate from Airsofters to represent them fairly and justly, and royally ****ed up, and responded to that ****up by being staggeringly arrogant and cowardly".

Steve

OK, here's the deal so far.

It's ok to post 'stuff happened' as long as it's fact. This has already been posted as a link to minutes of an AGM on the IAA site. People can work out what went on from the minutes and from what was posted on the IAA forums (unless it's been deleted since I've been on there which is quite a while ago).

Until we (mods) hear different from the boards legal gurus, it's not ok to post "Mr X did stuff" no matter how much the identity of Mr X is disguised. The reasoning for this is, as was said, this is a small community and most people here (including the mods) will immediately know who you are talking about - therefore the anonymity is lost.

Yes, stuff gets posted on other forums on boards that would not be allowed here - the vast majority posters on most other forums do not all know each other in real life and therefore can enjoy a higher level of anonymity.

You say you've been threatened with being sued in the past but nothing ever came of it.. the other party was all mouth and no trousers as they say.. sadly, the same is not true for boards.ie. They have been sued more then once for stuff and the site owners have understandably asked the mods to help them not let this happen again as it costs a crap load of lloot to defend one of these cases.

I'll leave you with some questions:

1. Have any of the concerned parties gone to the Gardai or the courts to report this alleged wrongdoing or file a prosecution?

2. What benefit do you think will come from being allowed to publicly 'name and shame' any alleged wrongdoer?

Danin

Reassurance is whats required here, the people newly elected to the IAA need to become more vocal. Let the Airsoft community know your still out there guys and that you are all still working on their behalf.

Let them know that previous or new members of the committee are/will be held accountable for their actions irregardless of weather they where well intentioned or not.

Lets not lose focus of whats important and allow the bureaucracy that's typically associated with committees take effect

break down the (us and them) stigma that's developed and remind the community that the IAA are made up of "players of the sport" just like everyone else. There is no hidden agenda, no hierarchy no alternative motives or conspiracy just simply players who enjoy the sport and want to aid in its development. It may sound simple to some but that's the fundamental remit the community require of their Representatives

speak to the community as much as you are capably permitted and you'll gain their respect and support.

DICEMAN7

Steve wrote: »

OK, here's the deal so far.

It's ok to post 'stuff happened' as long as it's fact. This has already been posted as a link to minutes of an AGM on the IAA site. People can work out what went on from the minutes and from what was posted on the IAA forums (unless it's been deleted since I've been on there which is quite a while ago).

Until we (mods) hear different from the boards legal gurus, it's not ok to post "Mr X did stuff" no matter how much the identity of Mr X is disguised. The reasoning for this is, as was said, this is a small community and most people here (including the mods) will immediately know who you are talking about - therefore the anonymity is lost.

Yes, stuff gets posted on other forums on boards that would not be allowed here - the vast majority posters on most other forums do not all know each other in real life and therefore can enjoy a higher level of anonymity.

You say you've been threatened with being sued in the past but nothing ever came of it.. the other party was all mouth and no trousers as they say.. sadly, the same is not true for boards.ie. They have been sued more then once for stuff and the site owners have understandably asked the mods to help them not let this happen again as it costs a crap load of lloot to defend one of these cases.

I'll leave you with some questions:

1. Have any of the concerned parties gone to the Gardai or the courts to report this alleged wrongdoing or file a prosecution?

2. What benefit do you think will come from being allowed to publicly 'name and shame' any alleged wrongdoer?

but goes to prove the paranoia that is going on in the airsoft moderation runs deep,i made a satirical quip regagarding the REAL IAA and the CONTINUITY IAA that was snipped but steve if you were really into the airsoft community you would have known this was a running joke since the LEGIT AGM.

Steve

DICEMAN7 wrote: »

but goes to prove the paranoia that is going on in the airsoft moderation runs deep,i made a satirical quip regagarding the REAL IAA and the CONTINUITY IAA that was snipped but steve if you were really into the airsoft community you would have known this was a running joke since the LEGIT AGM.

There's no paranoia, we've to follow guidelines set down by the site owners, simple as that.
What you posted would have been fine in the off topic thread but not here.

I'm not a part of the Airsoft community, you all know that, however, that gives me more impartiality in what I do here

DICEMAN7

Steve wrote: »

There's no paranoia, we've to follow guidelines set down by the site owners, simple as that.
What you posted would have been fine in the off topic thread but not here.

I'm not a part of the Airsoft community, you all know that, however, that gives me more impartiality in what I do here

but enough impartiality to call the quip pointless drivel?

DICEMAN7

andy_g wrote: »

Pointless drivel that drags the subject off topic.

Keep on topic or dont post, couldn't be easier.

oh btw

Steve

DICEMAN7 wrote: »

but enough impartiality to call the quip pointless drivel?

DICEMAN7 wrote: »

oh btw

If you want to discuss forum moderation, you can pm me, go to feedback or DRP

If you persist in your current approach then I'll take action. Thanks.

DICEMAN7

Steve wrote: »

If you want to discuss forum moderation, you can pm me, go to feedback or DRP

If you persist in your current approach then I'll take action. Thanks.

lol what is my current approach..............................so you are making veiled threats to ban me for pointing out your fallacies

Shidosha

What about those of us who have no idea of who the individual in question is, or what they have done? From my reading of this thread, someone out there's done some damaging stuff to the airsoft community as a whole, I'd like to know who it is and what they did.

I realise Boards has to step carefully for legal reasons, but in that regard they're really no different from any media outlet. Newspapers and websites report on allegations all the time. Why can't Boards? Yes, slander/libel laws need to be obeyed, but the impression I'm getting from this thread is that whatever's been going on is pretty solid.

If this is the work of someone who's been part of the IAA in an official capacity, surely their actions should be a matter of public record? Someone else mentioned earlier that putting yourself in the public eye in a political fashion (and being a committee member or even interacting in-depth with a committee is political, albeit at a small scale) inherently voids a certain level of personal privacy.

It's just quite frustrating for someone who's on the periphery. I've been on these forums for quite a while, been airsofting (casually) for a few years, but I'm still none the wiser about all this horrible scandal. Why am I not being informed? Is there somewhere I can go to get the various sides of this story?

Arkslippy

DICEMAN7 wrote: »

lol what is my current approach..............................so you are making veiled threats to ban me for pointing out your fallacies

Ffs. The thread is not about pointing out steves fallacies, real or imagined.

I'd like to hear what gerrowdat and others have to say about the real story of what happened with the iaa, and that's what he is allowing.

Steve

DICEMAN7 wrote: »

lol what is my current approach..............................so you are making veiled threats to ban me for pointing out your fallacies

No, not veiled at all. See you in a week. Bye.

This is a serious thread, and there is serious stuff going on with the IAA, I fail to see how making jokes about it is helping the Airsoft community.

DICEMAN7

gerrowadat wrote: »

The trouble is that it's well-known that a previous committee member caused much of the issues with this year's committee being able to do anything. We could call them MISTER X or THE BOOGY MAN. Is that non personally identifiable enough?

in a nutshell

DICEMAN7

Steve wrote: »

No, not veiled at all. See you in a week. Bye.

This is a serious thread, and there is serious stuff going on with the IAA, I fail to see how making jokes about it is helping the Airsoft community.

banned for what?

Steve

Shidosha wrote: »

What about those of us who have no idea of who the individual in question is, or what they have done? From my reading of this thread, someone out there's done some damaging stuff to the airsoft community as a whole, I'd like to know who it is and what they did.

I realise Boards has to step carefully for legal reasons, but in that regard they're really no different from any media outlet. Newspapers and websites report on allegations all the time. Why can't Boards? Yes, slander/libel laws need to be obeyed, but the impression I'm getting from this thread is that whatever's been going on is pretty solid.

If this is the work of someone who's been part of the IAA in an official capacity, surely their actions should be a matter of public record? Someone else mentioned earlier that putting yourself in the public eye in a political fashion (and being a committee member or even interacting in-depth with a committee is political, albeit at a small scale) inherently voids a certain level of personal privacy.

It's just quite frustrating for someone who's on the periphery. I've been on these forums for quite a while, been airsofting (casually) for a few years, but I'm still none the wiser about all this horrible scandal. Why am I not being informed? Is there somewhere I can go to get the various sides of this story?

All of what this is about is on the IAA site forums unless, as I said earlier, it has been removed.

BioHazRd

I just have a couple of quick points to add

The IAA do not carry out their business on boards.ie so we will not be commenting on this issue here.
However, the current committee are carrying out a full investigation into what happened and their findings will be made public. I, as a member of the previous committee, am excluded from being involved in the investigation, so that no bias or partiality can be levelled at the current committees work.

Rich