The Big Picture

Monty Burnz

Mahatma coat wrote: »

well its not a FACT either given that Altitude/Atmospheric pressure plalys a major part

It is a fact.

The normal boiling point (also called the atmospheric boiling point or the atmospheric pressure boiling point) of a liquid is the special case in which the vapor pressure of the liquid equals the defined atmospheric pressure at sea level, 1 atmosphere.[3][4] At that temperature, the vapor pressure of the liquid becomes sufficient to overcome atmospheric pressure and lift the liquid to form bubbles inside the bulk of the liquid. The standard boiling point is now (as of 1982) defined by IUPAC as the temperature at which boiling occurs under a pressure of 1 bar.[5]

The boiling point of water is 100 °C (212 °F) at standard pressure.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_point

Irish Sovereign

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Every time I hear 'wealthy bankers blah blah' in my head I'm hearing 'I don't know how banks work, and don't really understand the meaning of wealth'...

Do you know how fractional reserve banking works? Probably not because you wouldnt have come out with your silly statement.Most central banks like the federal reserve & ECB are privately owned & control the issuance of currency.As Amschel Rothchild once said:

Give me control of a nation's money supply and I care not who makes its laws.For whoever controls the money supply controls the nation & I control the money supply.

You can talk about Wayne Rooney & his £10 million a year but it isnt even a splash in the pond compared to these banking families who have massive estates all over the world.I heard from a reliable source that Anglo Irish had an estimated €200 billion hidden offshore when they requested a bailout from the Irish taxpayer from going "bankrupt".I thinks its you that hasnt a clue how banking works.

Mahatma coat

Water boils at 72.46 Degrees on the top of Everest
FACT

so water does not boil at 100 Degrees

Use integrated form of the Clausius-Clapeyron relation
ln(p₂/p₁) = (∆Hv/R)∙(1/T₁ - 1/T₂)

You know
p₁ = 23.8mmHg
T₁ = 25°C = 298.15K

Water boils at the temperature at which vapor pressure is equal to the ambient pressure. Ambient pressure on top of the Everest is 30% of standard atmospheric pressure, i.e.
p₂ = 0.3 ∙ 760 mmHg = 228mmHg

Solve equation above for T₂ and plug in the values:
ln(p₂/p₁) = (∆Hv/R)∙(1/T₁ - 1/T₂)
<=>
(R/∆Hv)∙ln(p₂/p₁) = 1/T₁ - 1/T₂
<=>
T₂ = 1/[ 1/T₁ - (R/∆Hv)∙ln(p₂/p₁) ]
= 1/[ 1/298.15K - (8.314472J/molK/40790J/mol)∙ln(228/23.8) ]
= 345.61K
= 72.46°C

Mahatma coat

anyway Back OT

Who organises the Bildeberg meetings??????????

thats where I'd start looking

Monty Burnz

Irish Sovereign wrote: »

Do you know how fractional reserve banking works?

Is there anyone who doesn't know how it works? It's taught in secondary school. I have a professional interest in banking. I assure you, I've forgotten more about banking that you will ever know.

Irish Sovereign wrote: »

Probably not because you wouldnt have come out with your silly statement.Most central banks like the federal reserve & ECB are privately owned & control the issuance of currency.As Amschel Rothchild once said:

Give me control of a nation's money supply and I care not who makes its laws.For whoever controls the money supply controls the nation & I control the money supply.

All of your 'facts' there are CT nonsense. Sorry. And when did Amschel Rothchild deliver that quote? To whom did he deliver it? Who recorded and publicised it?

Irish Sovereign wrote: »

You can talk about Wayne Rooney & his £10 million a year but it isnt even a splash in the pond compared to these banking families who have massive estates all over the world.I heard from a reliable source that Anglo Irish had an estimated €200 billion hidden offshore when they requested a bailout from the Irish taxpayer from going "bankrupt".I thinks its you that hasnt a clue how banking works.

You're so far off, you're not even wrong. Incidentally, I'm doing a PhD on banking.

Monty Burnz

Mahatma coat wrote: »

Water boils at 72.46 Degrees on the top of Everest
FACT

Yes, but you'll be surprised to learn that the top of Everest is - for some strange reason - not the altitude they use when defining the normal boiling point of a substance. :P

Irish Sovereign

Monty Burnz wrote: »

You're so far off, you're not even wrong. Incidentally, I'm doing a PhD on banking.

Ah so that explains a lot.Dont bite the hand that feeds you eh.:rolleyes: Tell me then do you think paper is real money?

Mahatma coat

I think that once people actually realise what FIAT currency is the whole house of cards will collapse

Monty Burnz

Irish Sovereign wrote: »

Ah so that explains a lot.Dont bite the hand that feeds you eh.:rolleyes: Tell me then do you think paper is real money?

I'm paid to study banking, not paid by banking. Zoologists aren't paid by mother nature.

And let's not further digress into discussions of fiat currency and whatnot. I've no particularly original thoughts on the subject.

By the way, 'fiat' isn't capitalised - it comes from the Latin, not the Italian car company...:pac:

Mahatma coat

Yeah, Fiabrique Industria Auto Torini actually produced something

Monty Burnz

Mahatma coat wrote: »

Yeah, Fiabrique Industria Auto Torini actually produced something

I thought FIAT stood for 'fix it again tomorrow'...

Torakx

Well i believe alot of the main or prestigious educational institutions are not independantly run and that there is a status quo to keep up.
Natiponal schools appear to be geared toward creating consumers and also preparing young people to be indoctrinated later on at higher levels of education.

Alot of learnign techniques are predominantly left brain friendly,which makes sense if you wish people to take in information and not actually think outside of the box or critically about it.
It favours linear patterns of learning,step 1 step 2 step3 etc

If your going to college for example to learn how to study the banking industry i would be suspect about your course material.
Who has a vested interest in the outcome of your education?
Wouldnt it be favourable for the banking industry to sponsor such courses or colleges in some way.
Who educated your instructors and set out the course.Is it a national or international organisation? And where are their loyalties.

Honestly i wouldnt trust a course to teach me how the banking system works or how to investigate it,because from what i have seen from months of online research using sometimes offical websites from the IMF
it is not all how it seems or as experts on the IMF here on boards had made out before.
It all souded nice when you look at the circular pattern it takes you on as you research the system,until you step back and relaise how many loopholes there are and just how overly complicated the system is.Convienently being so complicated and fragile has allowed alot of scams to take place at higher levels.
I dont mean to insult you choice of education.
I guess in this matter i should say i just dont trust rathe rthan think you made a bad choice.
I believe you can have prospects out of that education.
And it would not be the downfall of the banking system so not a direct threat.

hooradiation

Mahatma coat wrote: »

I think that once people actually realise what FIAT currency is the whole house of cards will collapse

Well, it's not exactly a secret so I'm curious as to why you'd imagine the widespread dissemination of this knowledge would do anything.

Unless you assume that when people are exposed to the concept behind fiat money they'd reach a conclusion similar to yours - which is a hell of an assumption.

Monty Burnz

Torakx wrote: »

If your going to college for example to learn how to study the banking industry i would be suspect about your course material.
Who has a vested interest in the outcome of your education?
Wouldnt it be favourable for the banking industry to sponsor such courses or colleges in some way.
Who educated your instructors and set out the course.Is it a national or international organisation? And where are their loyalties.

I think you are misunderstanding the nature of a PhD. If I can summarise it a bit like this, when you do a degree your lecturers explain your subject area to you, interpreting the academic research. When you do a masters, you access the academic research yourself (usually journal papers etc.). When you do a PhD, you are carrying out the research and writing the papers that will be taught to degree students in future.

So a PhD isn't a course, it's you sitting down with a blank sheet of paper and discovering something new. And it's f*cking tedious, I can tell you.

Torakx

Thanks for the straight answer.
I gues i am presuming you had a previous education aswell that brought you through college.
What i mean is, i presume you cant do a phd until you have been well indoctrinated over the years right?
Also if you did go ahead and write a thesis or paper on the situation and it happened to look similar to what alot of us here think is the case...how long do you think you would survive and continue working in that area.
Surely you see how unpopluar you would become, maybe even discredited.

I know you will answer,thats because the guys who do that are just wrong.So we will dance once again in circles lol
But that is my thinking which is based on months of tedious learnign of fractional reserves and IMF policies etc etc when the lisbon treaty was being voted on a second time.
I forget nearly all of it too,but i do remember my general feelings about it after all that.
So i wont argue with you,i have done that already with others on the financial part of boards or wherever that stuff was discussed.You may even fnd the thread buried there for reference.

Mahatma coat

Monty Burnz wrote: »

I thought FIAT stood for 'fix it again tomorrow'...

now it seems you are the one confusing your Fiats

thats the motto for Fiat curency Deficits

steelcityblues

The OP's assertions certainly remind me of the false left-right theory, which in particular talks about the manufactured 'difference' between Democrats and Republicans.

Both major parties essentially act in concert to create the goal of divisiveness among the populace, while keeping a tight grip on the levers of power.

I think we see this clearly in media with FOX vs MSNBC -

Both have huge corporate backers.

Both employ the same it is 'all their fault' techniques on their broadcasts.

Both have a plethora of insufferable, egotistical hosts.

But the saddest part - both have millions of Americans who trust the networks' analysis on a daily basis.

Bumblegoose

steelcityblues wrote: »

The OP's assertions certainly remind me of the false left-right theory, which in particular talks about the manufactured 'difference' between Democrats and Republicans.

Both major parties essentially act in concert to create the goal of divisiveness among the populace, while keeping a tight grip on the levers of power.

I think we see this clearly in media with FOX vs MSNBC -

Both have huge corporate backers.

Both employ the same it is 'all their fault' techniques on their broadcasts.

Both have a plethora of insufferable, egotistical hosts.

But the saddest part - both have millions of Americans who trust the networks' analysis on a daily basis.

Yeah I said about it in the 3rd post its the exact same!!

steelcityblues

Bumblegoose wrote: »

Yeah I said about it in the 3rd post its the exact same!!

Plus, follow the trail as to how many from both parties are involved in the likes of the Council of Foreign Relations (CFR), and it becomes even clearer.

ed2hands

+1

The CFR are bi-partisan, as are the Trilateral Commission and Bilderberg meetings and any seat of power you care to mention. Republicans and Democrats are cut from the same cloth, and indeed the same applies here in Ireland as the OP pointed out.

Republican/Democrat policies in the most important areas are identical:

*make the world safe for American corporations

* enhance the financial statements of defense contractors at home who have contributed generously to members of congress

* prevent the rise of any society that might serve as a successful example of an alternative to the capitalist model

* extend political and economic hegemony over as wide an area as possible, as befits a "great power.

(those courtesy of William Blum)


The banking elite, the military-corporate complex and it's political minions in the Western political and media system are the ones with real power. Them and the Wall St pigs who all stuffed their snouts in the trough off the back of the working man and woman and still do.

The fiat empire still rules supreme so by extension the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. The hungry in the world remain hungry and eventually die.
That's why they will do everything in their power to stop people like Ron Paul or anyone who questions the current false left-right paradigm or wonders why the wealth and power in this world is being continually transferred upwards.

Perpetual War is also a great way to distract from all this. From the fact that these political and economic policies have ruined their country and turned many parts of it into a post-industrial wasteland to facilitate a globalised market place where 9 year-old Indonesian children work 12 hours a day making €200 Nike Air Max runners for Puff Daddy.

Little does Puff Daddy know about all this i gather. Or little does he probably know that his distant relations in the 1950's Deep South were used as pawns along with the poor whites. Hatred and distrust was encouraged to keep them focussed on each other and not notice that they were both getting screwed. Same thing is going on today.

And it's the very same reason Islamophobia is being actively encouraged by Sarah Palin and the like. IMHO.

Monty Burnz

ed2hands wrote: »

The fiat empire still rules supreme so by extension the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.

To be honest, that's a cliche that gets thrown out a lot, but I think it's patently untrue. My mother grew up in a kind of poverty that is unheard of in the Ireland of today. My father's 'middle class' family would have been pitied by modern life-long dole spongers for their lack of luxuries and holidays.

The 'poor' are richer than they've ever been in human history: the 'poor' in advanced countries know nothing about hunger or homelessness. My grandparents would have longed for the 'problems' of the modern poor. Of course, the poverty industry defines poverty in relative terms, so 20% or whatever of the population will always be 'poor', no matter how much food they have, what kind of home they are given for free, how many foreign holidays they can take, how many flat-screen TVs they buy.

The rich may be getting richer, but any analysis of how the lives of 'the poor' have changed in the last 1000, 100, 50 years will show you they too are vastly richer than they used to be.

And why? Evil capitalism, for the most part.

ed2hands

Monty Burnz wrote: »

To be honest, that's a cliche that gets thrown out a lot, but I think it's patently untrue.

I wouldn't agree either that that's a cliche or that it's untrue.:o

Monty Burnz wrote: »

The rich may be getting richer, but any analysis of how the lives of 'the poor' have changed in the last 1000, 100, 50 years will show you they too are vastly richer than they used to be.

And why? Evil capitalism, for the most part.

Disagree that capitalism is responsible for how the lives of the poor (or some of them) have changed in the last 1000, 100, 50 years.
I think you're confusing the glorious benefits of this capitalism with improvements in modern agriculture, technology, sanitation etc.
It's normal human progress and ingenuity that are responsible for these improvements, not any particular economic system such as capitalism.

clever_name

ed2hands wrote: »

Disagree that capitalism is responsible for how the lives of the poor (or some of them) have changed in the last 1000, 100, 50 years.
I think you're confusing the glorious benefits of this capitalism with improvements in modern agriculture, technology, sanitation etc.
It's normal human progress and ingenuity that are responsible for these improvements, not any particular economic system such as capitalism.

The improvments you mention were not all a result of altruistism, like it or not the desire to make a profit (for global companies or individuals) has lead to the ability to make these improvements.

In simple terms when person A tells people that poor sanatation is responsible for germs and disease they are being altruistic, person B says their bleach will kill the germs they are profit motivated.

End result is knowing you have a problem is great and often free, knowing the problem can be fixed is great too and will usually cost because you are using the end result of someone elses work.

ed2hands

clever_name wrote: »

The improvments you mention were not all a result of altruistism

Oh i agree. Never said they were if you notice.

clever_name wrote: »

, like it or not the desire to make a profit (for global companies or individuals) has lead to the ability to make these improvements.

If you define capitalism as the rightful desire to be rewarded for hard work and to trade goods and services, own land etc, it has certainly been somewhat of an engine for improvement no doubt, along with the availability of investment and free trade, but certainly not the main reason.
And it's not a "like it or not" black or white thing you're ascribing to me. I'm not anti-capitalist in the broader sense.
My first post up there relates to Vulture Capitalism (which is at least as old as the Industrial Revolution)
http://www.hermes-press.com/vulture.htm

Humanitys improvements of itself and the world in the timeframe Monty mentioned were not mostly driven by capitalism, nor mostly by just altruism. They both played a part indeed though. It comes also from natural technological and scientific progression among other things which are far too early in the morning to contemplate.

clever_name wrote: »

In simple terms when person A tells people that poor sanatation is responsible for germs and disease they are being altruistic, person B says their bleach will kill the germs they are profit motivated.

End result is knowing you have a problem is great and often free, knowing the problem can be fixed is great too and will usually cost because you are using the end result of someone elses work.

A nice analagy but a world apart from what i was banging on about originally. Nice people who invent bleach are great. It's the obscene and barbaric profiteering that has caused the annihilation of the working mans living standards that i'm talking about.
Going back to the Industrial Revolution, the only reason the working classes got the little they got was that they fought to the death for their right to a share of the wealth created by mass production. It didn't get given to them on a plate by these generous industrialists.

Monty Burnz

ed2hands wrote: »

A nice analagy but a world apart from what i was banging on about originally. Nice people who invent bleach are great. It's the obscene and barbaric profiteering that has caused the annihilation of the working mans living standards that i'm talking about..

Again, I don't see an annihilation of living standards - I used to work in McDs for 3 quid an hour. Now the same work pays about 8 euros, and your 8 euros buys you a lot more than 3 quid did. And looking at health and safety in work, employee welfare has never been better, and workers have more rights than ever. One thing I will concede is not a positive development for workers is job insecurity, but this is the flip side of creating a flexible workforce - studies have shown that more people will get jobs if employers know they won't be stuck with staff they can't afford if things go wrong. So the cost of getting more people in work is making each job less secure.

ed2hands wrote: »

Going back to the Industrial Revolution, the only reason the working classes got the little they got was that they fought to the death for their right to a share of the wealth created by mass production. It didn't get given to them on a plate by these generous industrialists.

You're right, it certainly wasn't handed on a plate - people are pretty backwards usually, and the industrialists who resisted workers' rights probably didn't realise that their businesses would be more successful if the average worker had more money in his pocket to spend on products. Capitalism, tempered by a social conscience, has been shown to be the most powerful engine to improve the welfare of the public.

A very neat example is the state-controlled approach adopted by North Korea, compared to free-market South Korea. South Korea has gone from being a poor, defeated country in the 1950s to an industrial giant and one of the richest countries in the world. North Korea - the winners of the Korean War - went down the road of controlled markets, 'self-sufficency', 'Juche' - and is a poverty-stricken hole, where millions died of famine in the 1990s, and they are still reliant on food aid from the outside world.

ed2hands

Monty Burnz wrote: »

A very neat example is the state-controlled approach adopted by North Korea, compared to free-market South Korea

Yes North Korea is an example of what can go wrong at the other end of the scale. I understand your point of view.

Here's a cool little anime you'll enjoy. Maybe you've seen it.
And no, i'm not a sandle-wearing meusli-eating Marxist:)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOP2V_np2c0

belle2e

how do i post a new thread

belle2e

how do i post a new thread

stuar

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Oh my. NAMA is owned by the state - it's a state agency. This isn't exactly secret stuff - they have a website and all.

You have to understand how unlikely it is that you can unpick a vast unseen criminal conspiracy to control the world when you don't even know what NAMA (which has been in the news every day for 2 years!) is.

AIB are bankers if I'm not mistaken.
AIB has used money from its staff pension fund to buy a stake in the controversial special purpose vehicle (SPV) set up to own the toxic loans acquired by the National Asset Management Agency (Nama).

In a regulatory filing, the bank revealed it had raided the staff pension fund for €12 million of the €17 million it was required to contribute in return for a shareholding in the SPV.

The SPV, known as National Asset Management Agency Investment Limited, was created as part of a complex accounting structure to ensure that Nama’s borrowings, which are expected to top €40 billion, would be kept off the balance sheet of the Irish government and not form part of the national debt.

The structure provided for a group of private investors to inject €51 million into the SPV and take a 51 per cent stake
http://www.thepost.ie/story/?jp=ojkfidmhid

Who exactly are the NAMA SPV investors? What are the financial terms of their investment?
In short and despite their significance they are anonymous. Their fronts have been identified but the identities of “the beneficial owners” have not been revealed.
http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/2010/06/06/who-exactly-are-the-nama-spv-investors-what-are-the-financial-terms-of-their-investment/

Monty Burnz wrote: »

It's not a view - it's a fact. Do you think the idea that water boils at 100 degrees is a 'view'?

Yes it is a view with variables, namely pressure and purity.

The boiling point of water depends on the atmospheric pressure, which changes according to elevation. The boiling point of water is 100°C or 212° F at 1 atmosphere of pressure (sea level), but water boils at a lower temperature as you gain altitude (e.g., on a mountain) and boils at a higher temperature if you increase atmospheric pressure (lived below sea level).
The boiling point of water also depends on the purity of the water. Water which contains impurities (such as salted water) boils at a higher temperature than pure water.

stuar

Bumblegoose wrote: »

Okay in my opinion Fianna Fail and Fine Gael and all other organized Parties are all actually being run by the same puppet master. It makes perfect sense in several ways like it would mean no matter what whoever the puppetmasters are (I dont know - i dont have all the answers) would be in control no matter what, it also means that all their bickering and arguing and trying to be better than eachother is all to distract the people of the country so that they dont start to ask big questions and instead they just have another 'democratic' election and vote in the same puppets with a different name. And this just happens over and over and over so its a perfect setup for everyone except the people like we can all see there all useless and they all break the promises. Theyre all the same.

You may think im crazy but be open minded

You are quite correct, all political parties, left, right and centre are controlled from above the so called leader, politics is an illusion to divide and seperate, there are 2 main parties here FF and FG, the rest hop from one to the other, same everywhere, Britain Tories/Labour, US Republican/Democrat, all the same under the cover and is quite obvious once you bother looking below the facade.