Dublin to bottle it again?

The Chessplayer

Anyone else get the feeling Dublin will bottle it again? Tyrone have the momentum from the qualifiers. The last time they had the momentum and we had a break after the Leinster, they absolutely walloped us and we had a very good team too.

Any thoughts on how this one is going to play out?

Lemlin

The Chessplayer wrote: »

Anyone else get the feeling Dublin will bottle it again? Tyrone have the momentum from the qualifiers. The last time they had the momentum and we had a break after the Leinster, they absolutely walloped us and we had a very good team too.

Any thoughts on how this one is going to play out?

I don't think its fair to say Dublin 'bottled' games over the years against Tyrone. They simply weren't good enough for a superior Tyrone team.

Last year, IMO, Tyrone beat themselves and I don't think it'll happen again this year. I don't have the stats for how many times Dublin and Tyrone have played in the last decade but its quite a lot I'd think and Dublin were going to have to win one eventually.

Parity will be restored this year I expect.

Sunnyisland

I really don't know I live in hope we can do it, They have the ability to beat anybody,but there is always the lost momentum slipping in no matter whats happening in the game.But we will see this time & hopefully we have learned from the last games.

doc_17

It's unfair to say they might "bottle it".

It's like saying Limerick "bottled it" yesterday. The truth is they just weren't good enough.

If you subscibe to the belief that Dublin are and have been so much better than Tyrone over the past decade then you could say they are bottlers.....but I don't think many would agree with that.

Drummerboy2

This is going to be a great game. It will go the the wire. Unfair to Dublin having to wait 4 weeks for a game, bound to take the edge off a team.

Het-Field

Lemlin wrote: »

I don't think its fair to say Dublin 'bottled' games over the years against Tyrone. They simply weren't good enough for a superior Tyrone team.

Last year, IMO, Tyrone beat themselves and I don't think it'll happen again this year. I don't have the stats for how many times Dublin and Tyrone have played in the last decade but its quite a lot I'd think and Dublin were going to have to win one eventually.

Parity will be restored this year I expect.

I would certainly agree that in 2005 and 2008 Dublin met superb Tyrone teams, and were found out.

However, I do not subscribe to the belief that Tyrone "beat themselves" last term. Dublin played a particular defensive system which forced Tyrone into shooting from untenable angles and in frustration. This ensured that the Red Hand clocked up a large number of wides, which was then used by certain parts of the media, and the GAA commentariat to explain the loss. This was in spite of the fact that teams like Armagh and Louth had already chalked up a significant number of wides against Dublin's defensive system, and Cork did the same in the Semi Final. It is revisionism of the highest order to claim "Tyrone beat themeselves" last term.

The Chessplayer

doc_17 wrote: »

It's unfair to say they might "bottle it".

It's like saying Limerick "bottled it" yesterday. The truth is they just weren't good enough.

No, it's not unfair to say they bottled it. Tyrone were a better team but not 17 POINTS better!!!

Im Only 71Kg

yes..they will bottle it. guaranteed. we're a hurling county now..all focus is on the small ball.

spiralism

i dunno about bottling it against Tyrone, they were just beat by superior teams many of those times... talk of them bottling it against Cork is another thing though given the leads they had over them in the AI semi and league final.

I personally doubt they'll be able for Tyrone this time, Tyrone have gathered serious momentum in the past month while Dublin have sat on their hands and not played a good game since the end of June. Last time that happened, it wasn't pretty. Dublin beat Tyrone last year on the basis of a run of consistent games in the qualifiers while any time they win Leinster they seem to get dumped out in the quarters handily.

The Chessplayer

Drummerboy2 wrote: »

This is going to be a great game. It will go the the wire. Unfair to Dublin having to wait 4 weeks for a game, bound to take the edge off a team.

I agree, it's totally unfair on Dublin, all the odds are stacked against them. We may well be a better team but unfortunately I think we are going to be hopped off. No amount of training can make up for the intensity of competitive game.

Tyrone once again have the advantage.

blackbelt

I fear that this is setup nicely for Tyrone whereby they are getting games under their belt and mixing the old guard with the younger players coming up from the minor teams.Also there is the fact that Dublin haven't played for 4 weeks now.Hopefully they won't be rusty.The plus side is that we'll have McAulay and McConnell back to full fitness along with Cian O Sullivan and Philly McMahon.

The other good news is that we are not being hyped up to immeasurable proportions due to our poor performances in Leinster.I certainly think we have the beating of Tyrone.The only question is can we push on and deliver on it.

I also don't believe the crap that "Tyrone beat themselves" last year.We outscored them and out-muscled them in terms of taking scores while limiting theirs and making the angles in which they would attempt to score that much harder.

The game against Roscommon only shows us that they have good players but our backline is very formidable and if the Brogans can remain in form and uninjured,I'd back us to take them again.

blackbelt

Im Only 71Kg wrote: »

yes..they will bottle it. guaranteed. we're a hurling county now..all focus is on the small ball.

No we're not.People need to realise that we are a dual county.Our seniors and minors are still in both codes of the championship and motoring along nicely.

We are well capable of beating Tyrone but if you want for us to be written off at the expense of Tyrone,by all means go ahead.:D:D

Personally,I think Tyrone will hammer us,then get revenge on Donegal and go on to win the All Ireland by hammering Kerry.Tyrone will emerge as a top three team again and Spillane will re-ignite on the Sunday Game about negative football based on a foundation of workrate and show his bitterness to Tyrone which Brolly will mop up.:)

Het-Field

blackbelt wrote: »

I fear that this is setup nicely for Tyrone whereby they are getting games under their belt and mixing the old guard with the younger players coming up from the minor teams.Also there is the fact that Dublin haven't played for 4 weeks now.Hopefully they won't be rusty.The plus side is that we'll have McAulay and McConnell back to full fitness along with Cian O Sullivan and Philly McMahon.

The other good news is that we are not being hyped up to immeasurable proportions due to our poor performances in Leinster.I certainly think we have the beating of Tyrone.The only question is can we push on and deliver on it.

I also don't believe the crap that "Tyrone beat themselves" last year.We outscored them and out-muscled them in terms of taking scores while limiting theirs and making the angles in which they would attempt to score that much harder.

The game against Roscommon only shows us that they have good players but our backline is very formidable and if the Brogans can remain in form and uninjured,I'd back us to take them again.

Is the part in bold a certainty? I believe the return of these players could make a crucial difference for Dublin's prospects.

blackbelt

Het-Field wrote: »

I would certainly agree that in 2005 and 2008 Dublin met superb Tyrone teams, and were found out.

However, I do not subscribe to the belief that Tyrone "beat themselves" last term. Dublin played a particular defensive system which forced Tyrone into shooting from untenable angles and in frustration. This ensured that the Red Hand clocked up a large number of wides, which was then used by certain parts of the media, and the GAA commentariat to explain the loss. This was in spite of the fact that teams like Armagh and Louth had already chalked up a significant number of wides against Dublin's defensive system, and Cork did the same in the Semi Final. It is revisionism of the highest order to claim "Tyrone beat themeselves" last term.

I wouldn't worry about Lemins "analysis" of how Dublin beat Tyrone or how they didn't beat them.A stiff breeze would knock this guy over.

Fact of the matter is that Dublin won't ever get the credit they deserve for beating a team full of All Ireland medal winners.A simple fluke or run of luck I believe.Maybe divince inspiration perhaps?

So on the above analysis,Kerry have beaten themselves in All Irelands and Tyrone never truly beat Kerry to win the All Ireland.:rolleyes:

DoctaDee

In the absence of our "match winner" last time O'Gara ... i would love to see young Miceal mcCarthy of Sylvesters get on the panel

Downlinz

"Bottle it" lol

Dublin never "bottle it", they lose as soon as they meet a half decent team because they aren't of that standard. Some incredibly delusional people out there who'd seemingly believe Dublin have been bottling it the last 16 years to have not made a final let alone win one rather than just believe they aren't good enough.

Het-Field

Downlinz wrote: »

"Bottle it" lol

Dublin never "bottle it", they lose as soon as they meet a half decent team because they aren't of that standard. Some incredibly delusional people out there who'd seemingly believe Dublin have been bottling it the last 16 years to have not made a final let alone win one rather than just believe they aren't good enough.

2002.
2006.

That is all.

upgrade

I hope Dublin manage to beat Tyrone though i don't think they will. Donegal would rather meet a media hyped up Dublin than a Tyrone side out for revenge.
Tyrone aren't as good as they were a few years ago but once they get their studs into Croke Park they'l change up a few gears,
I predict Tyrone to win by 4-6 points

bren2001

upgrade wrote: »

I hope Dublin manage to beat Tyrone though i don't think they will. Donegal would rather meet a media hyped up Dublin than a Tyrone side out for revenge.
Tyrone aren't as good as they were a few years ago but once they get their studs into Croke Park they'l change up a few gears,
I predict Tyrone to win by 4-6 points

I really hope you are not being serious.... Dublin have not been brilliant so far this year alright but they have turned it on when they needed to i.e. against Kildare. With the players we have back from injury we are only stronger. Tyrone have not been brilliant either this year. I don't know if we will beat Tyrone but I would go as far to say either team will win it by more the a point or two. It will be a close fought match and imo is quite disrespectful to both teams to say either will run away with it.

Tyrone have experience that we dont have. We have one or two players that Tyrone dont have i.e. Brogans.

flahavaj

If Tyrone stop the Brogans they'll win and tbh they are one of the best teams around at nullifying individuals when needed.Everything they do goes through one of the two brothers.

The four weeks off will do the Dubs no favours whereas Tyrone have been on the road ironing out the problems in their team and have a ice blend of youth and experience now. I thik they'll badly want revenge after last year too. Dublin have looked pretty poor in Leinster so far.

Its not a matter of bottle btw, its simply a matter of Dublin not having enough top class players to be AI champions. I don't think they're much beter than last year and they weren't good enough then.

Het-Field

flahavaj wrote: »

If Tyrone stop the Brogans they'll win and tbh they are one of the best teams around at nullifying individuals when needed.Everything they do goes through one of the two brothers.

The four weeks off will do the Dubs no favours whereas Tyrone have been on the road ironing out the problems in their team and have a ice blend of youth and experience now. I thik they'll badly want revenge after last year too. Dublin have looked pretty poor in Leinster so far.

Its not a matter of bottle btw, its simply a matter of Dublin not having enough top class players to be AI champions. I don't think they're much beter than last year and they weren't good enough then.

In fairness, the bulk of the 2010 was a new team, and a number of existing players changed position. To write it off because it lost to a team on a roll is premature.

teednab-el

I would write off no one after what happened yesterday. Dublin should know what to expect from Tyrone and if they are good enough they will beat them. It will be a hard ask but stranger things have happened before.

corny

In answer to the original question no Dublin won't bottle it but that doesn't mean they won't produce a poor performance. I've said it already that i think the biggest threat to Dublin is the 4 week break. They have a lot to iron out from the Leinster final and imo that can't be done in training. Tyrone don't need much to reverse form from last year either. Despite the 5 point cushion at the end Martin Penrose shot bounced off the crossbar to Barry Cahill and Paul Flynns shot rebounded to O' Gara who scored the decisive goal. It could easily have gone the other way on both occasions and Tyrone would have won.

Hope i'm wrong and both teams produce their best as i reckon theres not much in it but i can see a sharper Tyrone team winning by 3.

DoctaDee

Dublin Minors lead Corj 1-7 to 0-0.

DoctaDee

Dublin Minors lead Cork 1-7 to 0-0.
H/t 1-08 to 0-00
1-09 to 1-01
1-11 to 1-03 few mins left
Dubs reach MFC semi final

df1985

Before Saturday I would of thought Dublin would win but after watching Tyrone in croker,im not so sure, they started to look dangerous. Still think Dublin can do it but there'll be nothing in it. extra time anyone?

curraghyid

Dublin know how to beat tyrone same way as last year tight defence and make tyrone fowards and sean kavanagh do what they are not very good at. Shoot from 35 yds and more under pressure.
Dubln defence is better this year than last and coped with the much vaunted tyrone attack.
Dublin with a point or two to spare.

teednab-el

curraghyid wrote: »

Dublin know how to beat tyrone same way as last year tight defence and make tyrone fowards and sean kavanagh do what they are not very good at. Shoot from 35 yds and more under pressure.
Dubln defence is better this year than last and coped with the much vaunted tyrone attack.
Dublin with a point or two to spare.

I fancy Dublin if they turn up but to know what team turns up the next day is the deciding factor. Again Tyrone are Tyrone and they always re-emerge every few years and win Sam.

Fitzerb

I think its 50-50. Tyrone have had the games but that can work against you when the legs are getting older. They had to work to get the result on Saturday. On the other hand Dubs have played poorly so far this year in the Championship. I dont think 4 Provincial winners have ever made it through so the stats favor Tyrone.
The Tyrone players I guess really want this for Mick Harte and that will be a factor (understandably), d I fancy the winners to get past Donegal and I am hoping that the sight of reaching the final will drive the Dubs on.

Its going t be squeaky bum time on Sat and hopefully a great game

TheSpecialOne

Think Tyrone will end Dublins hopes for another year. Have a sneaky feeling they might even go all the way! Just hoping for a good game especially after the crap i had to watch in Croker on Sunday (Limerick vs Kerry).

plasmaguy

Tyrone tend to have good years and bad years and they learn from their bad years.

I think last year was one of their bad years and they are much stronger this year.

As for Dublin, they may boss their way through Leinster every year, but any decent team would do that.

Bernard Brogan is the only forward at the moment who would get on a Kerry or Tyrone team. The other forwards are good in Leinster, but tend to disappear in the AI.

It's a Tyrone win for me.

Cill Dara Abu

Drummerboy2 wrote: »

This is going to be a great game. It will go the the wire. Unfair to Dublin having to wait 4 weeks for a game, bound to take the edge off a team.

It's unfair to be disallowed perfectly good goals too but sure what can you do :rolleyes:

plasmaguy

flahavaj wrote: »

If Tyrone stop the Brogans they'll win and tbh they are one of the best teams around at nullifying individuals when needed.Everything they do goes through one of the two brothers.

The four weeks off will do the Dubs no favours whereas Tyrone have been on the road ironing out the problems in their team and have a ice blend of youth and experience now. I thik they'll badly want revenge after last year too. Dublin have looked pretty poor in Leinster so far.

Its not a matter of bottle btw, its simply a matter of Dublin not having enough top class players to be AI champions. I don't think they're much beter than last year and they weren't good enough then.

It's very difficult to nullify Bernard Brogan, and I don't think Tyrone will manage it either, even with two players on him.

He could still have his normal game and score 7 or 8 points, or be brilliant and score a lot like he did against Cork last year.

Unfortunately he is lumbered with other forwards who might boss their way through Leinster, but are usually hopeless in the AI.

DoctaDee

The Chessplayer wrote: »

No, it's not unfair to say they bottled it. Tyrone were a better team but not 17 POINTS better!!!

*whispers* .. 12 points .. yer thinkin of Kerry 2009

themandan6611

Cill Dara Abu wrote: »

It's unfair to be disallowed perfectly good goals too but sure what can you do :rolleyes:

you could continually moan and groan about it and remind everyone Kildare were the 3rd best team in Ireland :rolleyes:

DoctaDee

plasmaguy wrote: »

........Unfortunately he is lumbered with other forwards who might boss their way through Leinster, but are usually hopeless in the AI.

Cullen & Flynn are 2 great ball carriers/dirty ball winners which are required in equal measure to the point scorers ....

exador

sounds like most posters here tipping Tyrone. sounds like dublin will be underdogs .....

Sound !

corny

DoctaDee wrote: »

Cullen & Flynn are 2 great ball carriers/dirty ball winners which are required in equal measure to the point scorers ....

Cullen is also, despite playing most of his inter county life in the backs, good for a couple of points from play. He has a lovely languid style.

Diabhal Beag

Don't think that Tyrone will beat Dublin. I think Donegal have a better chance of beating Dublin than Tyrone.

DoctaDee

corny wrote: »

Cullen is also, despite playing most of his inter county life in the backs, good for a couple of points from play. He has a lovely languid style.

True indeed .. same could be said of Flynn ... seen him in a Dublin SFC for Fingallians baggin 8 or 9 from play

plasmaguy

Well all I remember from the Cork game last year is Bernard Brogan scoring a load of points and a goal, while the other Dublin forwards couldn't hit a barn door.

No-one would like to see Dublin win more than me, but when it comes to the big stage, and no I'm not talking Leinster matches, they are usually found wanting.

Padkir

Drummerboy2 wrote: »

This is going to be a great game. It will go the the wire. Unfair to Dublin having to wait 4 weeks for a game, bound to take the edge off a team.

It's too close for me to call, so I can't make a prediction, but I have to say something about this point! Why is it different circumstances for Dublin than Kerry? Kerry also had to wait 4 weeks for their quarter final, and still managed to perform! If Dublin lose against Tyrone, then the excuses will come flooding in about the delay they've had in playing, not the fact that Tyrone outplayed them!

Mayo didn't have any momentum after coming out of what people describe as a poor Connacht Championship, but still managed to up it for Cork when they had to, despite having no qualifier games to get going! There's no way this is an excuse!

Hopefully after this year, people will stop complaining about what a disadvantage it is to win the provincial title, after at least 3 of the winners made it to the Semi!

DoctaDee

plasmaguy wrote: »

......... but when it comes to the big stage, and no I'm not talking Leinster matches, they are usually found wanting.

I agree completely ... but they're usually found wanting by the eventual AI winners (7 in the last 9 years) ... Dublin have never been the best team in Ireland in the last 10 years .. with the possible exceptions of 2002 and last year ... but it has never dimmed our optimism that we can reach a final ...

corny

Padkir wrote: »

It's too close for me to call, so I can't make a prediction, but I have to say something about this point! Why is it different circumstances for Dublin than Kerry? Kerry also had to wait 4 weeks for their quarter final, and still managed to perform! If Dublin lose against Tyrone, then the excuses will come flooding in about the delay they've had in playing, not the fact that Tyrone outplayed them!

Thats not true. Kerry played a challenge match against a Limerick team who were all to aware of the fact they haven't beaten Kerry in the championship since 1896 (i think). There was no intensity in the game at all. Even after the match Jack O'Connor and Tomas O' Shea were all to aware of the lack of match sharpness and were delighted they got an easy one to get them back into the groove. O'Connor said "I thought we needed the game as we looked a bit rusty at times. There were a lot of passes not going to hand and turnovers. Match sharpness only comes from playing matches and we needed that game badly. We hadn't played a game in a month."

For Dublin its worse because they don't have a division 3 side waiting for them in QF's.

DoctaDee

corny wrote: »

.......For Dublin its worse because they don't have a division 3 side waiting for them in QF's.

Ah yeah but we got the next best thing a mediocre Div2 side ..:rolleyes:

Toboldlygo

I believe we shouldn't be looking at negatives ahead of the match next Saturday. This should be the game of the 2011 Championship so far.

Dublin looking to win Sam for the first time since beating Tyrone in 1995; Tyrone trying to win Sam for Mickey in memory of Michaela.

I am looking forward to the game and as a Tyrone supporter I can't see us getting beaten. TYRONE ABU!

Padkir

corny wrote: »

Thats not true. Kerry played a challenge match against a Limerick team who were all to aware of the fact they haven't beaten Kerry in the championship since 1896 (i think). There was no intensity in the game at all. Even after the match Jack O'Connor and Tomas O' Shea were all to aware of the lack of match sharpness and were delighted they got an easy one to get them back into the groove. O'Connor said "I thought we needed the game as we looked a bit rusty at times. There were a lot of passes not going to hand and turnovers. Match sharpness only comes from playing matches and we needed that game badly. We hadn't played a game in a month."

For Dublin its worse because they don't have a division 3 side waiting for them in QF's.

Yes, fair point. Dublin haven't played since the Leinster final, and have a very good team waiting to meet them in the quarter final. Mayo or Donegal hadn't played since their respective finals (if you want to leave Kerry out of it), and managed to turn in good performances against Kildare and the reigning champions. The extra week Dublin have to wait is unfortunate, but it is not something which can be helped, teams just need to adapt to the situation!

It's just annoying to hear some people laying the foundations for excuses should Dublin lose! I'm not saying they will, because I think they're a good team and they will probably win an All-Ireland in the next few years if they keep improving! But the fact is that if Tyrone beat them, it will be because Tyrone played better, or Dublin "bottle it", not because Dublin haven't played since the Leinster final.

DARK-KNIGHT

dont be surprised if dublin turn up next weekend with a point to prove....

they are a very good team this thread is **** stirring, i know i am the last one to up the dubs but who knows if they play well consistently they could well have a lot to say this year yet

Browney7

Gaa doesnt work like this but go through championship form so far.

Donegal beat tyrone.
Dublin beat kildare in 70 mins
Donegal beat kildare aet.

Form suggests Dublin should win. However I think Tyrone will shade it. A team with a cause.

upgrade

Cill Dara Abu wrote: »

It's unfair to be disallowed perfectly good goals too but sure what can you do :rolleyes:

The fact is Kildare aren't good enough,true they have had bad decisions against them,but every team does and it evens itself out, if they were a really good team it wouldnt matter,Donegal had better players and thats what won it for us.
Poor form also I thought from the Kildare camp trying to influence the ref from newspaper articles,though i wouldn't blame Geezer for that,Kildare were the only team i seen using cynical fouling late on in the match.
It would be great to get the Dubs in the semi,but i think Tyrone will win it fairly handy, leinster football is not as good a standard as Ulster I think

DoctaDee

upgrade wrote: »

.......,but i think Tyrone will win it fairly handy, leinster football is not as good a standard as Ulster I think

Ah sod this I'm not gonna bother goin on Saturday .. can't stand for watchin another hiding ! ..Ticket for Sale ..Cusack Lower ..most likely 306--308 ..... oh there's 2 kids thrown in aswell :rolleyes: