Re-Introduction of the Wolf in Ireland

Crann na Beatha

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Monty Burnz

Veles wrote: »

Would conversationalists be in favour of such a move to re-introduce the wolf into certain protected areas of Ireland?

It would certainly give them something to talk about.

Crann na Beatha

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astonaidan

Did they not try something similar in Scotland but couldnt get it to work cause of the walkers right to roam which means they couldnt fence off large areas

mgwhelan

Not a chance, the closest we would get if someone with a lot of spare cash byes a few hundred acres of land and put up a wolf proof fence all around it, there will never be true wild wolf in ireland again.

magicbastarder

there are plenty of deer in ireland for the wolves to live on.

there are also plenty of sheep, and i know which i'd be bothered chasing down. so while i'd love to see it, it's highly impractical.

mgwhelan

astonaidan wrote: »

Did they not try something similar in Scotland but couldnt get it to work cause of the walkers right to roam which means they couldnt fence off large areas

Wasn't that a private land owner who did that, he had boar and elk in a fenced area and was trying for wolf as well.

jill_valentine

Would be cool in a lot of ways, but far too impractical given the size, population distribution and agricultural dependence of the country.

I'd also suggest that throwing a large predator into the mix at this stage would put a lot of other already-strained native species under a lot more pressure. I'd imagine it would actually be a fairly nightmarish proposition from a conservationist point of view with that borne in mind.

emo72

i was going to start a thread with the same title. but my intention was to alarm or wind up farmers who poison birds of prey. then i thought better of it!

however fair play to the OPer. saved me the bother. oh and i wouldnt feel too happy about herds of wolves roaming the land. funny to debate it though........

just think when farmers google "reintroduction wolves" they will come to this thread. mini heart attacks for them as the google results pop up!

Crann na Beatha

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Traonach

Are there areas in the country with enough prey?
Wicklow mountains are rotten with non-native deer. Just look at the few native woodlands that are there. They are overgrazed (minimal wood understorey) due to overgrazing pressure. The deer would be controlled properly by wolves and a proper balance would be achieved. The wolves would also control small predators like foxes and mink. Control of these species would beneifit a variety of threatened native species like woodwarbler, redstart, red grouse, curlew etc.

Is there enough habitat for wolves in Wicklow?
There is plenty of woodland (mostly non-native though:().

Would wolves be a danger to people?
No, they wouldn't. There are ever increasing numbers of wolves in Europe and they don't harm anybody. There are wolves on the outskirts of Barcelona and nobody is harmed

Would they take livestock?
A few would be taken. People could adapt to this. Just look at traditional ways of protecting livestock with the use of large breed dogs such as pyrenean mountain dogs. A non lethal method of protection:).

The problem would be persecution. They wouldn't last 5 minutes. They would either be poisoned or shot. Just look at the Raptor re-introduction, how many have been illegally killed:(.

Judgement Day

We have quite enough dangerous animals in Ireland (quite apart from unfriendly farmers + dogs, skangers etc) that you may encounter in the hitherto unspoilt parts of the country without introducing more. They would only end up being poisoned or shot by farmers anyway.

Traonach

Judgement Day wrote: »

We have quite enough dangerous animals in Ireland (quite apart from unfriendly farmers + dogs, skangers etc) that you may encounter in the hitherto unspoilt parts of the country without introducing more. They would only end up being poisoned or shot by farmers anyway.

What dangerous animals?

Monty Burnz

Traonach wrote: »

What dangerous animals?

Lions, for a start.

gooch2k9

And panthers in Donegal.

Remember a big story about one being spotted around my area, apparently a released pet from the north:p

Judgement Day

Traonach wrote: »

What dangerous animals?

Well I was thinking of diesel launderers/freedom fighters/drug importers etc.etc. not to mention unmuzzled vermin such as rottweilers. When I was a teenager I used to roam the sort of areas these creatures now favour but I'm reluctant to bring my children to such places today - even accompanied - Bray Head and the Murrough in County Wicklow being two such places where skangers and dogs roam free. Don't worry I'm not going to disrupt this thread any further - just tired after the weekend.

Tabnabs

Very simply put, we don't have sufficient space to introduce pack animals.

Here's a recent report on wolves in Scandinavia (English synopsis included)
http://www.rovdata.no/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=zvxKLTek8II%3d&tabid=3882

swifts need our help!

gooch2k9 wrote: »

And panthers in Donegal.

Remember a big story about one being spotted around my area, apparently a released pet from the north:p

Years ago I was brought to see a lion and tiger on a back garden in Omagh County Tyrone

Birdnuts

Tabnabs wrote: »

Very simply put, we don't have sufficient space to introduce pack animals.

Here's a recent report on wolves in Scandinavia (English synopsis included)
http://www.rovdata.no/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=zvxKLTek8II%3d&tabid=3882

I don't think Scandanvia is a good example - despite there apparent green image, many countries such as Sweden and Finland have a serious problem with poaching of species like Lynx and Brown Bear, plus there appears to be what can only be described as a "hillbilly" culture in some parts of rural Scandanavia which doesn't help eitheir. I think a better example would be countries like Italy(Wolves now estaiblished in certain Rome suburbs) or Turkey and other parts of Eastern Europe were stock owners rear special breeds of dogs with flocks which means livestock can be reared succesfully in bear/wolf country:)

Tabnabs

Birdnuts wrote: »

I don't think Scandanvia is a good example - despite there apparent green image, many countries such as Sweden and Finland have a serious problem with poaching of species like Lynx and Brown Bear, plus there appears to be what can only be described as a "hillbilly" culture in some parts of rural Scandanavia which doesn't help eitheir. I think a better example would be countries like Italy(Wolves now estaiblished in certain Rome suburbs) or Turkey and other parts of Eastern Europe were stock owners rear special breeds of dogs with flocks which means livestock can be reared succesfully in bear/wolf country:)

Both countries are on mainland Europe (or Asia) and many times bigger than Ireland. But do you seriously believe it an option for a Kerry or Donegal hill farmer to have to keep special breed dogs to protect their flocks? Never mind wolves in the suburbs of capital city. Pie in the sky fantasy I'm afraid.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Veles wrote: »

Would conservationists be in favour of such a move to re-introduce the wolf into certain protected areas of Ireland?

Ludicrous, absurd, laughable, and ridiculous.

kildare.17hmr

Crazy idea that would not be good for anyone, especially the wolf! They would find an area with a food source which would eventually be some farmers flock of sheep and then end up being shot and rightly so. Ireland just isn't big enough

green_dub_girl

Interesting, I carried out a feasibility study three years ago assessing a reintroduction of wolves in Killarney National Park. It could work very well, there are lots of red deer, their numbers have grown excessively. Wolves by nature avoid roads, civilisation etc.

The fear people have of them is uncalled for, in many ways there is more risk associated with hanging around with a little terrier!:eek:

Kess73

Well it would make walking through woods with steaks in your pocket a more interesting pastime.

magicbastarder

green_dub_girl wrote: »

Interesting, I carried out a feasibility study three years ago assessing a reintroduction of wolves in Killarney National Park. It could work very well, there are lots of red deer, their numbers have grown excessively. Wolves by nature avoid roads, civilisation etc.

they reintroduced wolves in yellowstone, and i believe there are about 100 in the park (which is 9000 sq km) now.
killarney is only 100 sq km. at the same population density (which is a very rough fudge, i know, there are probably multiple factors affecting population density), killarney would support a population of maybe 1 wolf.

Italia

Classic quote by a member of the uninformed, kneejerking, PC brigade.

Rottweilers have been in my family since the early 1900's (according to my granddad) right up to today. I have 2.
No one, up to & including my own kids has ever been attacked or 'molested' in any way, by these dogs. They have been subjected to all sorts of 'abuse' - pulling tails, ears, poking, teasing etc - that kids and even some adults mete out. the worst that has happened, when it got a bit much, is a small growl and he/she got up and walked away. It all depends on how the owner trained / handled the animal. Personally, I have found them to be good natured friendly animals who just happen to think they are chihuahua sized and with as much grace as an elephant.

I'm not saying that they cannot or will not hurt you. It depends on the circumstances and how the animal was trained. its a long long way from referring to it as 'vermin'.

Just as a matter of interest Labradors, mainly due to genetic disposition, are approx 37% more likely to attack a human than a Rottweiler. In the US, most attacks on humans have been perpetuated by the American Cocker Spaniel and the Labrador Retriever (source American Vet Association)

Judgement Day wrote: »

Well I was thinking of diesel launderers/freedom fighters/drug importers etc.etc. not to mention unmuzzled vermin such as rottweilers.

Monty Burnz

magicbastarder wrote: »

killarney would support a population of maybe 1 wolf.

A pack of wolf then.

Tabnabs

Italia wrote: »

Classic quote by a member of the uninformed, kneejerking, PC brigade.

<snip>

Just as a matter of interest Labradors, mainly due to genetic disposition, are approx 37% more likely to attack a human than a Rottweiler. In the US, most attacks on humans have been perpetuated by the American Cocker Spaniel and the Labrador Retriever (source American Vet Association)

Way off topic, but I can produce statistics that show the Rottweiler is the second most deadly dog in the US

http://dogbitelaw.com/images/pdf/breeds-causing-DBRFs.pdf

67 vs 8 for the Labrador.

johngalway

emo72 wrote: »

i was going to start a thread with the same title. but my intention was to alarm or wind up farmers who poison birds of prey. then i thought better of it!

however fair play to the OPer. saved me the bother. oh and i wouldnt feel too happy about herds of wolves roaming the land. funny to debate it though........

just think when farmers google "reintroduction wolves" they will come to this thread. mini heart attacks for them as the google results pop up!

Not worth replying to seriously.

Traonach wrote: »

Would they take livestock?
A few would be taken. People could adapt to this. Just look at traditional ways of protecting livestock with the use of large breed dogs such as pyrenean mountain dogs. A non lethal method of protection:).

Ok,let's try it then. Once you agree to personally compensate for any stock losses plus the cost of dogs and the additional time required to train them. It shouldn't be an onerous burden to you as you can after all adapt.

Judgement Day wrote: »

We have quite enough dangerous animals in Ireland (quite apart from unfriendly farmers + dogs, skangers etc) that you may encounter in the hitherto unspoilt parts of the country without introducing more. They would only end up being poisoned or shot by farmers anyway.

What have you done to farmers to upset them? Most I know are happy welcoming people when treated with respect, like anyone else.Go over to the Outdoor Pursuits forum and ask the hill walkers.

Tabnabs

johngalway wrote: »

What have you done to farmers to upset them? Most I know are happy welcoming people when treated with respect, like anyone else.Go over to the Outdoor Pursuits forum and ask the hill walkers.

Probably best not, seeing as how the farmers have been credited by the officials in making the Dublin Way walk so impassible and then recently pulling out the signposts.

johngalway

Tabnabs wrote: »

Probably best not, seeing as how the farmers have been credited by the officials in making the Dublin Way walk so impassible and then recently pulling out the signposts.

I have no knowledge of that situation nor the issues behind it. It is certainly not the case in the area in which I live and work. There are awkward people in all lines of work, no exceptions and to tar an entire situation with them isn't representative of the whole situation.