Cycling on Irish motorways: not news?

Glencarraig

You must get off the N11 at the Fassaroe ramp and cross the bridge and take the Dargle Road, or go left at the top of the ramp and climb the hill which leads to a lane which has a poor surface and a gate!! but leads you up to Kilternan. I saw a 2 guys cycling on the M11 recently and as they were coming to an on ramp I tried to protect them from the traffic by driving behind them with hazard lights on. I asked one of them why he was cycling on a motorway and he told me that it was ok because the guy with him was a garda !!.....the mind boggles !!

coolbeans

Apart from being dangerous motorways are boring, I don't know why anyone would want to inflict that on themselves. All the good views in any country are off motorways.

Iwannahurl

Glencarraig wrote: »

You must get off the N11 at the Fassaroe ramp and cross the bridge and take the Dargle Road, or go left at the top of the ramp and climb the hill which leads to a lane which has a poor surface and a gate!! but leads you up to Kilternan. I saw a 2 guys cycling on the M11 recently and as they were coming to an on ramp I tried to protect them from the traffic by driving behind them with hazard lights on. I asked one of them why he was cycling on a motorway and he told me that it was ok because the guy with him was a garda !!.....the mind boggles !!

The mind boggles indeed, but given the road policing standards in this country does not necessarily reel in shock and surprise.

doozerie

I drove on the M50 today. It was the usual mix of of cars breaking the speed limit in the outer lane, cars breaking the speed limit in the inner lane, drivers realising that they are just about to pass their exit while in the outer lane so simply cutting across all lanes to get to it, etc. A novel new experience was someone trying to shove past me on the entry lane, forcing me to hit the brakes to avoid a collision.

I sometimes wonder how I survive that road in a car, cycling on it I'd expect to be a brief and messy experience and likewise for other Irish motorways. Personally I'd rather that my last moments in life not include the sight of some indignant driver giving me a withering "Ah jaysus, I'm going to have to wash you off my bonnet later, ya bollix" look, so I choose not to cycle on motorways.

Cookie_Monster

See a cyclist on the M11 nearly weekly at Loughlinstown,

nerraw1111 wrote: »

Re the M11/N11. Am I right in that it's ok to cycle north bound on the N11 until the Bray exit?

North or Southbound you can cycle from North of Ashford to the Fassaroe exit, which is the middle Bray exit, just after the turn for Enniskerry.

nak

I was on a club ride earlier in the year when on the way home the person leading the spin decided to take a shortcut via the M3. Only 2 of us refused to go on it and had to find our own way home from there. I was raging, so dangerous to take a group on there.

I'm from the UK, and have never seen a cyclist on the motorway there, you would be spotted on CCTV and get a police "escort" pretty quickly if you tried it.

The N11 scares me enough, you don't stand a chance if you get hit at speed.

doozerie

nak wrote:

I was on a club ride earlier in the year when on the way home the person leading the spin decided to take a shortcut via the M3. Only 2 of us refused to go on it and had to find our own way home from there. I was raging, so dangerous to take a group on there.

That's a disgrace. Someone leading a group like that is supposed to take responsibility for not exposing the riders to unnecessary dangers and leading them onto a stretch of motorway is not an action of someone responsible. Fair play for standing your ground and refusing to follow as it's not easy to go against the majority even when they are clearly being idiots.

nerraw1111

Re the N11. Yeah that’s the exit I take and I'm glad to get off it asap.

I ask because that stretch of road feels a bit dangerous for a cyclist. Last time I cycled the small section two weeks ago, a few cars got quite close to me and another two cars seemed massively pissed off that I was on the road in the first place.

Beasty

doozerie wrote: »

That's a disgrace. Someone leading a group like that is supposed to take responsibility for not exposing the riders to unnecessary dangers and leading them onto a stretch of motorway is not an action of someone responsible. Fair play for standing your ground and refusing to follow as it's not easy to go against the majority even when they are clearly being idiots.

TBH this should be reported within whichever club it is. I would expect any club to prohibit such behaviour - I'm sure it would also negate any insurance policy in place and leave anyone considered "responsible" liable for damages if anything did go wroing

blorg

Cycling on motorways is not particularly dangerous; no more dangerous than cycling on a HQDC which is entirely legal. Small, busy roads are much more dangerous. I don't however cycle on motorways (in Ireland) as it is illegal and segregation is one of the reasons motorways are so safe in the first place.

petethedrummer

blorg wrote: »

Cycling on motorways is not particularly dangerous; no more dangerous than cycling on a HQDC which is entirely legal. Small, busy roads are much more dangerous.

I think so too. There would want to be some very poor cycling and/or driving for there to be an incident between a motorist and cyclist on a motorway.

Beasty

petethedrummer wrote: »

I think so too. There would want to be some very poor cycling and/or driving for there to be an incident between a motorist and cyclist on a motorway.

I disagree - the speed at which vehicles come off junctions and onto slip roads make it very dangerous, particularly where there are filter lanes (which are quite common on certain motorways) - drivers will not be expecting anything so small and slow - they'll be looking out for other motor vehicles, not cyclists

petethedrummer

Go up the off ramp and down the other side for some hill practice. I'm not advocating it. I'm just saying you could do it quite safely. You have to do this on parts of the N4 which are legal to cycle on.

blorg

I have cycled a hell of a lot on the N3 before it was redesignated. You have to be careful at the on/off ramps but it is safer than smaller roads without a hard shoulder, IMO. I would not cycle on an Irish motorway.

glic71rods46t0

petethedrummer wrote: »

Go up the off ramp and down the other side for some hill practice. I'm not advocating it. I'm just saying you could do it quite safely. You have to do this on parts of the N4 which are legal to cycle on.

This sounds like the David Norris school of logic. You're not advocating it but advising all here that you could do it quite safely:rolleyes:.
Its illegal and very unsafe. To imply otherwise is grossly irresponsible

Cookie_Monster

petethedrummer wrote: »

I'm just saying you could do it quite safely. You have to do this on parts of the N4 which are legal to cycle on.

I don't see why, sure if you listened to some people on here you should be cycling in the middle of the driving lane anyway, controlling the road

topcat77

I used to see a cyclist on the Galway to Athenry strech of motorway. Haven't seen him for a while so how knows whats happened?

doozerie

Beasty wrote:

I disagree - the speed at which vehicles come off junctions and onto slip roads make it very dangerous, particularly where there are filter lanes (which are quite common on certain motorways) - drivers will not be expecting anything so small and slow - they'll be looking out for other motor vehicles, not cyclists

I completely agree. On the one hand a road is a road, even if the speed limit on one is higher than that on another, but on the other hand a road where drivers fully expect (and are actively encouraged to expect) to not encounter the likes of cyclists/mopeds/etc. is very different from one which is open to everyone.

A quick search just now didn't throw back any reliable sources of stats for accidents that occur in the hard shoulder of motorways but unofficial UK sources cite figures ranging from 1 in 6 motorway accidents occurring in the hard shoulder to 1 in 10. Given the fact that the motorway hard shoulder is supposed to be used in emergency situations only, so should see very little actual traffic, those figures are extremely high. It's quite clear to me that a motorway hard shoulder is not the place to be, not in a car for the mostpart and certainly not on a bike.

Mind you, I've seen cars parked in the hard shoulder at times, sometimes so that their occupant(s) can pee, sometimes so that they can puke, sometimes apparently so that they can get out and stretch their legs. Just at an exit on one Irish motorway I saw two cars parked and an auld fella casually chatting to the driver of the second car. The auld fella was standing on the line dividing the hard shoulder from the lane I was in, hands in pockets leaning forward to bring his ears closer to the driver sitting in the second car. No wonder he was having trouble hearing, what with inconsiderate hoors such as myself belting past his ankles at 125kph. Us Irish are a funny lot, we don't have much time for laws which don't suit us at any particular point in time, and we sometimes go to extreme lengths to brazenly flaunt those laws - 'tis all fun and games until someone goes squish!

petethedrummer

97e3vzjuqo204g wrote: »

This sounds like the David Norris school of logic.

I don't see what David Norris has to do with anything.

97e3vzjuqo204g wrote: »

You're not advocating it but advising all here that you could do it quite safely:rolleyes:

Got it in one. Well done.

97e3vzjuqo204g wrote: »

Its illegal and very unsafe.

It is illegal yes. Is it very unsafe? I don't think so. You do. We'll have to agree to disagree.

97e3vzjuqo204g wrote: »

To imply otherwise is grossly irresponsible

I did not imply that people should start cycling on motorways. You inferred it. I have never done it myself.

ROK ON

I have cycled on the hard shoulder of a motorway a few times now. Both on my own and in a group. Its fine. Road surface is invariably very good.

Havent done it for very long mind (ie the journey was short), but if I had no other choice then I wouldnt hesitate about doing it again.

doozerie

ROK ON wrote:

I have cycled on the hard shoulder of a motorway a few times now. Both on my own and in a group. Its fine. Road surface is invariably very good.

Yeah, the smooth non-stick surface helps a lot when they are scraping you off the road with a shovel later. Clever engineering, wha'.

Lumen

The hard shoulder is a parking area for the exclusive use of drivers who run out of fuel.

coolbeans

I dunno how cycling on a motorway can be "fine" unless you exit and re-enter on the ramps. On the other hand maybe some are doing their intervals across the exits as there's plenty of incentive to cross the exit and entry zones as quickly as possible!

Cookie_Monster

coolbeans wrote: »

I dunno how cycling on a motorway can be "fine" unless you exit and re-enter on the ramps. On the other hand maybe some are doing their intervals across the exits as there's plenty of incentive to cross the exit and entry zones as quickly as possible!

replace motorway with DC or HQDC and do you still see it as not fine?
There's no way I'm going to pull off at exits of a DC to clear them. Let also bear in mind that DC traffic can be limited to the same 120 kph motorways are, and will frequently have traffic in excess of this anyway.

galwaycyclist

Beasty wrote: »

I disagree - the speed at which vehicles come off junctions and onto slip roads make it very dangerous, particularly where there are filter lanes (which are quite common on certain motorways) - drivers will not be expecting anything so small and slow - they'll be looking out for other motor vehicles, not cyclists

Slip lanes, particularly dual carriageway slip lanes, and above all slip lane entries are the most dangerous type of junction for cyclists with the highest rate of fatality. I will try and dig out the numbers tonight.

galwaycyclist

doozerie wrote: »

A quick search just now didn't throw back any reliable sources of stats for accidents that occur in the hard shoulder of motorways but unofficial UK sources cite figures ranging from 1 in 6 motorway accidents occurring in the hard shoulder to 1 in 10. Given the fact that the motorway hard shoulder is supposed to be used in emergency situations only, so should see very little actual traffic, those figures are extremely high. It's quite clear to me that a motorway hard shoulder is not the place to be, not in a car for the mostpart and certainly not on a bike.

Back in 1975 An Foras Forbartha were quoting a 50% reduction in cycling accidents on N routes that had been fitted with hard shoulders. (The usual caveats about background patterns apply but this seems like a reasonable finding).

If you are on a high speed road on a bicycle, and there is an adequately surfaced hard shoulder of adequate width, then the hard shoulder is the best place to cycle.

Its difficult to draw direct comparisons with the UK as historically I don't think they used hard shoulders on non-motorway trunk roads. The use of hard shoulders is one aspect of road design in which we were well ahead of our neighbours.

tomasrojo

petethedrummer wrote: »

Go up the off ramp and down the other side for some hill practice.

I read that on this forum before (not for motorways, but for high-speed dual carriageways). Very good idea. Not advocating it for motorways. I've never even thought to cycle on a motorway.

I know Cyclecraft's recommendation for crossing in front of slip roads on higher-speed routes is to wait at the side until the slip road is clear, cycle straight across the mouth of the slip road and then proceed as if you're joining the main road from the slip road.

TeddyTedson

I see cars in the cycling lanes every day and nobody mentions it.
In my experience as a cyclist cars are far more irritating than contrasting my experiences as a driver.
I think cyclists showed be allowed to cycle on motorways with continuous hard shoulders.

*waits to be shot down*

coolbeans

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

replace motorway with DC or HQDC and do you still see it as not fine?
There's no way I'm going to pull off at exits of a DC to clear them. Let also bear in mind that DC traffic can be limited to the same 120 kph motorways are, and will frequently have traffic in excess of this anyway.

To be fair you're moving the goal posts now. Slip roads on motorways are lethal for cyclists. You try and cross one while traffic enters/exits and come back to me. It's genuinely hazardous. I'm not talking about duallers as they're more of a grey area.

coolbeans

TeddyTedson wrote: »

I see cars in the cycling lanes every day and nobody mentions it.
In my experience as a cyclist cars are far more irritating than contrasting my experiences as a driver.
I think cyclists showed be allowed to cycle on motorways with continuous hard shoulders.

*waits to be shot down*

And how would you address the issue of hazardous slip roads? Would you expect motorists to slow down as you cross (continuing on m-way) while they exit, and similarly for accelerating motorists entering onto the m-way to ease off the gas if there's a cyclist proceeding (along the m-way)? I'm inherently against banning cyclists from any roads but there's good reason in this instance.