How men view gay women.

Marsha McMallow

Ok, definitely going to need a disclaimer for this one. I am in no way sexist or angry towards men as a group. The vast majority of my friends are lads and I love them to bits. The reason I am taking this topic to the Gentlemen's club is because it's a problem I feel I need to put to men. I'd be interested to hear a male opinion on it.

Here goes!

I'm female and I've come out as being attracted to women in the last five years, or so. At this point I have about as much experience dating women and being in relationships with them as I do with men.

Call me naive, but I've been really horrified by the (for want of a better word) abuse I've gotten from men since I started dating women. I'd rather hang out in pubs that play better music than the gay bars I've been to, but literally every time I've been to a "straight" bar with my gay friends or a partner I've been made uncomfortable to the point of having to leave. The first night I kissed my first girlfriend we had lads coming up to us, making comments at us, taking pictures of us and generally being disgusting towards us.

It's been a few years since that, but I still get the same sort of thing happening when I go out. I'll give an example of one night we had out recently. First of all we went into a bar where there weren't too many people drinking and there was live music playing, sat up at the bar to get our drinks and, I dunno, we could have been holding hands or something, but the guy playing the music stopped and made comments about lesbians at the bar. Later we were dancing and had a small kiss which lead to someone following us around who wouldn't leave us alone, so we had to leave and go somewhere else. We went for a burger on the way home and were just leaning on each other (not even a kiss exchanged) eating our food and the guy beside us leaned over and said things like "Are ye dirty lesbians? I love dirty lesbians? I love lesbians."

A couple of nights ago we were holding hands when a lad came up and started talking to us. We talked to him for a bit and he asked if we were gay. We said we were, but for some reason he didn't believe us and went on to ask me out in front of my girlfriend. (I doubt this would have happened if I'd been holding hands with another lad) The same night, on the bus home, my girlfriend had her arm on the seat behind me and kissed me on the cheek. The guy behind us started making moaning noises at us, got up off his seat to come around and gawk at us and was even touching my girlfriends hand (I wish I'd known this at the time, she only told me when we got off the bus)

I'd write this off as someone being drunk and foolish if it had happened once, but we literally can not go anywhere that doesn't call itself a gay bar without getting some sort of hassle. It's infuriating for obvious reasons and also frustrating because I'd rather drink a different sort of bar than the gay bars we're offered in Ireland. The music they play tends to be bad. I just want to live like any other human being without getting hassle for acting with my girlfriend as any straight couple would act on a night out.

I've been thinking about it and I reckon the reason it happens is because the only exposure most straight lads have to lesbians is through porn or straight women kissing for attention. They see us as being there for their pleasure and don't take us seriously as an actual couple. I don't feel that I should have to hide my sexuality away, but I end up feeling so unsafe and violated when I go to "straight" bars that it's become easier to just stay in gay bars.

I really just wanted to hear some male opinions on this. What do you think of gay women? Do you know anyone who acts this way towards them? If so, do you have any idea why?

Wolfe Tone

Congratulations, you have discovered that some guys are assholes.

wolf moon

They are women. Not every woman is a sexual object and I don't treat all of them as such. Normal human beings, don't know what else to say..

ted1

Each to their own. I've a wife so have no unintrest in scoring guys or girls so other peoples sexuallity makes no difference to me. Sorry that you have meet so many dicks and can understand that if you were straight these guys would gave been enough to convert you.

Will

I don't really bat an eye lid at it. In saying that my old secondary school was very open and we had a large amount of lesbian women in the class so after the first week or so it was nothing new to me. Just two people showing affection to each other.

I get awful sh¡t in bars and pubs also on account of my piercings. I've large stretched lobes and people will come up and grab onto them or poke them, just invade my personal space and also stare. Some people are even abusive and down right rude. It's not something the general public are used to seeing and I assume it's the same for most of the people who give you and your lady grief. They're just not used to seeing it, are drunk and end up acting like eejits.

Munster64

Marsha McMallow wrote: »

I really just wanted to hear some male opinions on this. What do you think of gay women?

They are women, I really dont think anything else about them. What they do is their own business. Guys that react the way described must feel threatened of something.

Marsha McMallow

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Congratulations, you have discovered that some guys are assholes.

I get that, yeah. Some guys/girls are assholes, but I feel it's significant that the amount of assholes I encounter increases so dramatically if I happen to be out with my girlfriend. I really think there must be something wrong with how society views gay women, because not this many people can simply be assholes.

When I was seeing lads in the past we'd almost never get hassle from anyone for any reason, same as everyone else. Now if I go out I can't pass one night without enduring hassle from at least one person. It's so significant that I've had to remind myself recently that it's not all men, just some.

crazym02

My best friend is a gay woman and I view her as loyal, kind, fun and with a beautiful soul. It's sad you've had a hard time but we're not all bastards lol

Marsha McMallow

Will wrote: »

I don't really bat an eye lid at it. In saying that my old secondary school was very open and we had a large amount of lesbian women in the class so after the first week or so it was nothing new to me. Just two people showing affection to each other.

I get awful sh¡t in bars and pubs also on account of my piercings. I've large stretched lobes and people will come up and grab onto them or poke them, just invade my personal space and also stare. Some people are even abusive and down right rude. It's not something the general public are used to seeing and I assume it's the same for most of the people who give you and your lady grief. They're just not used to seeing it, are drunk and end up acting like eejits.

Yeah, it's probably a matter of exposure. There's definitely a difference between the "lesbians, deadly" assholeish crowd and the "lesbians, ugh" homophobic crowd, alright.

People see that you're different, assume you're looking for attention with that difference, and assume it's ok to invade your space because of that, you reckon?

Will

Marsha McMallow wrote: »

Yeah, it's probably a matter of exposure. There's definitely a difference between the "lesbians, deadly" assholeish crowd and the "lesbians, ugh" homophobic crowd, alright.

People see that you're different, assume you're looking for attention with that difference, and assume it's ok to invade your space because of that, you reckon?

I don't know, people with booze in them are just far more boisterous and prone to acting out what they're thinking compared to when they're sober. Also if it's a group of people you gotta battle with a group mentality. People feel safer in a group, so one dude may shout something he wouldn't have otherwise shouted if he was alone. I guarantee he wouldn't gawk or yell it if he was on his own.

I let it roll off my back regarding my perforations lol.

Rinker

Think you could rename thread How Drunk men view gay women. Peoples behaviour in bars or when drunk is often more about having a laugh, taking the piss than an underlying disrespect for someones sexuality. I can see how it would piss you off but I'd doubt it represents what the large majority of men feel.

SugarHigh

No offense but you're making too big a deal about pretty mundane events. Seriously if a guy was to wear a hat on a night out he'd get just as much negative attention it's really not significant. Tbh it sounds like you want to feel persecuted.

Marsha McMallow

Rinker wrote: »

Think you could rename thread How Drunk men view gay women. Peoples behaviour in bars or when drunk is often more about having a laugh, taking the piss than an underlying disrespect for someones sexuality. I can see how it would piss you off but I'd doubt it represents what the large majority of men feel.

I agree that people speak/act their mind more when they're drunk, but that just backs up my point that there's something wrong with how they think of gay women. Generally when they approach it seems like they think they'll get something from us, it's only if we try to defend ourselves or get them to leave us alone that they adopt the "taking the piss" face. At this stage it's difficult not to be angry when it happens.

SugarHigh wrote: »

No offense but you're making too big a deal about pretty mundane events. Seriously if a guy was to wear a hat on a night out he'd get just as much negative attention it's really not significant.

In my experience people touching you, taking photos of you, following you and making sexual comments aren't mundane events. It's not something I'm willing to sit back and take.

SugarHigh wrote: »

Tbh it sounds like you want to feel persecuted.

Why does it sound like I want to feel persecuted? These things actually happen. Trust me when I say I'd rather be able to go out and enjoy myself without having to worry about any of this.

the_syco

Marsha McMallow wrote: »

The first night I kissed my first girlfriend we had lads coming up to us, making comments at us, taking pictures of us and generally being disgusting towards us.

<snip>

straight women kissing for attention.

In a nutshell, guys see this as attention seeking, and react in the way that men have been led to do. I'm not condoning what they did, I'm just pointing out that due to the attention seekers, women kissing each other these days are seen as another form of flirting.

=-=

What sort of bars do you goto, and what sort of clientèle do said pubs attract. You go to a pile of sh|te, you'll meet flies there; the pubs you've gotten bad attention in may be the sort of pub that attracts scumbags.

SugarHigh

Marsha McMallow wrote: »

In my experience people touching you, taking photos of you, following you and making sexual comments aren't mundane events. It's not something I'm willing to sit back and take.

I'm not saying you have to take it I'm just saying you are persecuted ont he same level someone who wear a hat on a night is persecuted. It's not exactly the stuff films are made of is it?:D

Why does it sound like I want to feel persecuted? These things actually happen. Trust me when I say I'd rather be able to go out and enjoy myself without having to worry about any of this.

I'm not denying they happened I'm just denying the importance of them. Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if ginger/short/bald people had it worse, there was nothing shocking in your post.

Melanoma

I'd just think of them as women, except for the fact they are not attainable. I don't know anyone personally all that well, least I don't know anyone open about it. It could be good to be comfortable around someone who's female but your not worried about trying to impress so much. Sexuality is just what someone wants its the same whatever.
On a more sexually fantasy thing, then hey I'd love to be the guy that showed them what they were missing and eureka moment them into my love nest but that's not were I'd be thinking while talking to them, just day dreaming, while eating cornflakes or whatever. If I saw lads giving lesbians a hard time I'd be disgusted though I'd advise anyone not to go overboard kissing in public thats gay as so many people cant resist the temptation to be rude and are desperate not to be the boring farts they are.

Marsha McMallow

SugarHigh wrote: »

I'm not saying you have to take it I'm just saying you are persecuted ont he same level someone who wear a hat on a night is persecuted. It's not exactly the stuff films are made of is it?:D

Trying to formulate a response that doesn't question the quality of the people you socialise with if you'd get that sort of hassle for wearing a hat... At least you can take the hat off, eh?

SugarHigh

Marsha McMallow wrote: »

Trying to formulate a response that doesn't question the quality of the people you socialise with if you'd get that sort of hassle for wearing a hat... At least you can take the hat off, eh?

I don't wear hats. It was actually from a thread on boards where people were complaining about all the hassle they get with stories worse than yours. As for simply taking it off, your right and you could simply not kiss your girlfriend in a nightclub. What about ginger/fat/short/bald people? I don't really think your "persecution" stands out as being significant.

As for it being a case of the sort of people they socialize with, doesn't that equally apply to you?

Marsha McMallow

SugarHigh wrote: »

I don't wear hats. It was actually from a thread on boards where people were complaining about all the hassle they get with stories worse than yours. As for simply taking it off, your right and you could simply not kiss your girlfriend in a nightclub. What about ginger/fat/short/bald people? I don't really think your "persecution" stands out as being significant.

As for it being a case of the sort of people they socialize with, doesn't that equally apply to you?

That's the frustrating part though, we don't kiss any more than your average straight couple. We shouldn't have to hide ourselves to suit the assholes.

Regarding the hat thing, I thought you meant your friends would give you hassle for it, not other people in the pub.

SugarHigh

Marsha McMallow wrote: »

That's the frustrating part though, we don't kiss any more than your average straight couple. We shouldn't have to hide ourselves to suit the assholes.

Neither should fat/short/ginger/bald people. It really has nothing to do with how men view lesbians and more to do with standing out. Anything that makes you stand out will bring you hassle as has already been described by Will.

Snowie

Marsha McMallow wrote: »

Yeah, it's probably a matter of exposure. There's definitely a difference between the "lesbians, deadly" assholeish crowd and the "lesbians, ugh" homophobic crowd, alright.

People see that you're different, assume you're looking for attention with that difference, and assume it's ok to invade your space because of that, you reckon?

Majority of people weather it be male or female. Don't really care what people do some of us are idealist some of us are realists..

Ideally People wouldnt care what your sexuality is..

realisiticly lesibains to some men could be considered amazing wow like look to girls kiss thats so hot i gotta take pictures..
:rolleyes:

personally if i can't be involved sorrry im not interested....

Its the imaturity of a nation were were still coming to terms with a world wind of whats excaptable for people to do after years and years of supression and guilt tripped in many respects i feel as a hole are nation of young people to a degree are a lot like, an 18 year olds first year in college. Except more like rag week revisited..

tho tbh it doesnt help that some men are complete donkys

But i could care what your sexuality is as long as you treated me with rispect

KyussBishop

I don't view women differently based on sexual orientation, so gay women are the same as straight women to me etc., and I wouldn't behave differently.
It sucks that you are made to feel uncomfortable like that, the people acting in ways you describe are díckheads really.

SugarHigh wrote:

No offense but you're making too big a deal about pretty mundane events. Seriously if a guy was to wear a hat on a night out he'd get just as much negative attention it's really not significant. Tbh it sounds like you want to feel persecuted.

SugarHigh wrote:

I don't wear hats. It was actually from a thread on boards where people were complaining about all the hassle they get with stories worse than yours. As for simply taking it off, your right and you could simply not kiss your girlfriend in a nightclub. What about ginger/fat/short/bald people? I don't really think your "persecution" stands out as being significant.

I don't understand this viewpoint, to me it seems to be saying (and paraphrasing here) "Other people get crap for being different too (and worse), you shouldn't make such a big deal (i.e. shouldn't complain)".
That's a pretty unfair attitude; it bothers her, enough to feel uncomfortable when out, so she's totally right to complain; no need to make judgements by speculating that she "want to feel persecuted".

Wibbs

KyussBishop wrote: »

I don't understand this viewpoint, to me it seems to be saying (and paraphrasing here) "Other people get crap for being different too (and worse), you shouldn't make such a big deal (i.e. shouldn't complain)".
That's a pretty unfair attitude; it bothers her, enough to feel uncomfortable when out, so she's totally right to complain; no need to make judgements by speculating that she "want to feel persecuted".

I might be wrong K, but I think(and correct me if...) SugarHigh isn't saying don't complain as such, just don't be surprised that this may happen. Will was saying similar. Doubly so around drunk people add a side order of arsehole and it's inevitable. It's not just straight men either, some gay men can be just as twatty about gay women and some gay women can be twats about straight men/women. It's not the sexual orientation, it's how much of a tard you are, or not. And how much of the herd mentality you follow.

tallaghtmick

Porn has ruined lesbianism for women in fairness.

Annasopra

Marsha McMallow wrote: »

I've been thinking about it and I reckon the reason it happens is because the only exposure most straight lads have to lesbians is through porn or straight women kissing for attention. They see us as being there for their pleasure and don't take us seriously as an actual couple.

I think this is probably true - some straight men have only experienced as something that they watch on the internet to get their rocks off.

Annasopra

SugarHigh wrote: »

It really has nothing to do with how men view lesbians

It clearly does. The op has described several times where leery comments about lesbians have been made.

smcgiff

Drink, novelty, that some straight girls do it for attention leading to confusion, some men are dicks

MajorMax

See this is something I've never understood, maybe there's something wrong with me.
Why are straight men supposed to be turned on by 2 women shagging? Are straight women supposed to be turned on by 2 men shagging?
The sight of 2 women kissing or whatever doesn't do anything for me. It's like watching a guy kissing a girl, if you're not the guy doing the kissing then it's kinda boring.

Wibbs

MajorMax wrote: »

See this is something I've never understood, maybe there's something wrong with me.
Why are straight men supposed to be turned on by 2 women shagging? Are straight women supposed to be turned on by 2 men shagging?
The sight of 2 women kissing or whatever doesn't do anything for me. It's like watching a guy kissing a girl, if you're not the guy doing the kissing then it's kinda boring.

+10000 Meet your twin. It does nothing for me, if anything slightly euuuw.

Ficheall

MajorMax wrote: »

See this is something I've never understood, maybe there's something wrong with me.
Why are straight men supposed to be turned on by 2 women shagging? Are straight women supposed to be turned on by 2 men shagging?
The sight of 2 women kissing or whatever doesn't do anything for me. It's like watching a guy kissing a girl, if you're not the guy doing the kissing then it's kinda boring.

Well, I'd imagine that one of the main attractions of lesbian porn is that one doesn't have to watch another guy and his penis, or feel insecure when the bloke in question has a twelve-inch penis.
And there are twice as many boobies, etc.

py2006

Gentleman are not permitted to seek female advise/opinions in the Ladies Lounge. (My thread was locked). Surely the same goes for here?

Note: I have no personal issue with this thread!