Transition Year - Waste of time, space and money?

partyatmygaff

Am I the only one who thinks that TY in secondary schools is an unnecessary strain on our stretched education budget? What benefit is there to spending an entire year in school achieving nothing of any particular importance and needlessly using up teacher's time and using school resources in the process?

Nearly everyone I know who did TY (I skipped TY personally) regret it now and wish they went straight on to fifth year.

I can't count the amount of times i've heard of people complaining about secondary schools being oversubscribed but here we are with secondary schools using up an entire year group's worth of resources on a pointless year. IMO, it seems like a complete waste of time, money and school capacity.

7sr2z3fely84g5

Free labour,shhh....

Poor Uncle Tom

In fairness that could be said for any year in secondary school.....

MsJenjers

Well all I really got out of it was more pals but I suppose you could get that anywhere :P So yeah...waste of time and money!

AnneElizabeth

It was great! Made new friends, had a break, went on trips, got so much experience for my CV, had more time to decide on LC subjects. No reason not to do it!

Herb Powell

Well what would you see as so useful about the other years at school?

partyatmygaff

Herb Powell wrote: »

Well what would you see as so useful about the other years at school?

I dunno...

Actually learning for example?

Herb Powell

.........aaaaaaaand what would you count as "actually learning"?

Jess16

I think that living in such a capitalist society, people tend to focus on education as a profit-making enterprise, and fail to acknowledge the value that comes with growing as people as opposed to profit margins.

Life experience is never a waste. Neither is education. This is both. Do it.

Namlub

sugarman wrote: »

Its after been changed over the last 2yrs where as its now part of the leaving cert struture afaik..

I was in TY last year, it's definitely not. Where did you get that from?

starlit

I think its a very good idea and worthwhile, I did it and never regret doing it. It gave me a proper chance to prepare for my leaving and chose my leaving cert subjects. I was better informed when it came to choosing my subjects and what career path I wanted. I made new friends. All the better for it. I got a chance to take a break, a break for my brain from heavy study but also got to learn other things without having it so focused on study all the time. A lot more group activities and educational trips. It was a bit like first year but we were treated more maturely. You get to do work experience which is great. You learn more than just the academic side!

I learnt a lot about myself and other's as well as being on an equal level with teachers, they were like our friends really and treated us more like adults. It was an even key with them. There were fun aspects too it wasn't what you call a doss you still had to do most subjects at honours leaving cert level maybe some at pass say for maths maybe. You do a variety of subjects and gives you a better idea of what areas you like, good at and what you'd like to pursue whether or not you studied for the junior cert or not. If I could I would do it again, it saved the hassle of having to take a break in between secondary school and college or later on while still in college, I just kept going with college until I started working, went back to college again and now just taking time out in searching for work and might go back to college again next year. Think now is a better time to take time out of education than doing so too soon but TY is different you are still in mainstream education!

Depends what you want out of it really, what you put in you get out of it.
Its worth doing it if you feel you need a break from studying you be ready then to do the leaving cert and start college when the time comes and you be more mature for college too!

Wetai

We never had the option . But some teachers would call the year after the Junior Cert 5th year, even though it was (and we called it) our 4th year.

MsJenjers

Herb Powell wrote: »

Well what would you see as so useful about the other years at school?

Well at least you spend the other years preparing for the LC instead of shamelessly promoting your "mini company" in the middle of the local shopping centre by handing out fliers you made by hand. I guess TY's different in every school but it wasn't much of an unforgetable experience in my school! Good craic was had every now and again but just not worth the money!

partyatmygaff

Jess16 wrote: »

I think that living in such a capitalist society, people tend to focus on education as a profit-making enterprise, and fail to acknowledge the value that comes with growing as people as opposed to profit margins.

Life experience is never a waste. Neither is education. This is both. Do it.

Growing as people should not have its own special year dedicated to it. It should be a continuous process throughout secondary school.

Witcher

The only people that seem to have a problem are those who didn't do it.

amacca

I suppose like anything...some people genuinely find it useful and some think its a load of ..... eh horse stuff.

Your point about the resources is a valid one though...there is probably very little point running a severely under-resourced TY and that looks to be the way TY is heading.

TY can also if its not monitored/controlled properly become a cosy little home for those that dont/wont do any academic work...wont really get involved in teamwork/projects (what its supposed to be about).....but its hard to actually refuse students from entering if their parents kick up enough of a stink when they are refused etc

overall I suppose...its worthwhile if its done properly and the school is given the ability to let the correct cohort of students into it (those that would benefit) without interference etc + are allowed maintain discipline without being beholden to the fear of section 29 etc (all rights no responsibilities these days I tells ya)

I personally think the extra year is very valuable for students who are immature but show potential to grow up (mentally speaking) in that year + decide they want to make a proper stab at their exams etc - but thats more of an opinion looking at it from the outside - perhaps the students themselves would not agree

One final thing....given the current climate wouldn't one more year in the education system be beneficial at this stage?..perhaps someone going into TY this year would benefit simply by coming out into an economy with one more years worth of "recovery" behind it (and one more year of maturity behind them) 6-7 odd years down the line (presuming they do a 4 year undergrad)

I didnt do it btw...went to college @ 17 (there was no such thing as TY when I were a nipper:D)----not sure the extra year would have done me any good as tbh I'm probably still quite immature and may remain so until I depart this reality

Herb Powell

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Growing as people should not have its own special year dedicated to it. It should be a continuous process throughout secondary school.

Well that's a whole different kettle of fish, and it currently isn't

Jess16

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Growing as people should not have its own special year dedicated to it. It should be a continuous process throughout secondary school.

And it is to the extent that teachers can allow it to be whilst operating within curriculum restraints. There are no time/curriculum constraints in TY so personal growth is at a premium

phasers

It all depends on the individual school. Mine was shockingly bad and we did absolutely nothing for a year, but some schools set up all kinds of courses, trips, guest speakers and interesting classes for students to experience.


Thing is though, this shouldn't all be shoehorned into one optional year, it should be a continuous thing. The Irish education system sucks, it's only role is to encourage students to regurgitate facts a lot of the time they don't even understand.

adamski8

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Growing as people should not have its own special year dedicated to it. It should be a continuous process throughout secondary school.

your right it should, the important word there is SHOULD but usually is not, while obviously the other regular years teach you alot of essential and worthwhile things, in most cases growing as people is not what is done in the class room.

sitting in a class room 9-4 and then sitting at home doing homework for another 3 hours doesnt particularly make you grow as a person.

TY your free from homework, you do activities outside the classroom, get involved in things like charity, learning things like first aid, how to swim or play a guitar, try to run a small business, take field trip, discover things about nature, alot more PE and art classes and also a few weeks work experience.

as far as costing money, all i know is my class had to pay for nearly everything and we had only about 3 classes a day which most teachers didnt show up for so about zero money spent there.

AG2R

I done it and found it rather pointless

Daisy03

I did TY and I think it was well worth it. I got the chance to go on a German exchange which really helped me get a good result in the LC. We also did things like the Young Scientist which helped bulk up my CV. (At 16 and wanting a part time job it's kind of helpful!)

I also did charity work and still volunteer for them 7 years later. There was loads if other stuff aswell.

There is also actual academic work during the year. We started the basic stuff in subjects like maths and Irish to help give us a solid base in 5th year.

I don't see how it could be a waste if the student makes an effort to make the most of the year.

Our principal tried to encourage students to do it, claiming that in his experience students who do it tend to do better in the LC.

sky88

didnt do it my school didnt waste there time time with it

4zn76tysfajdxp

adamski8 wrote: »

sitting in a class room 9-4 and then sitting at home doing homework for another 3 hours doesnt particularly make you grow as a person.

That's just silly. Why can't these people learn to "grow as a person" in their spare time? Seven hours of lessons a day followed by a couple of hours of homework a night isn't very repressive.

Caraville

I did it and it was one of the best decisions I've ever made in my life. Made loads of new friends, became far more confident and tried lots of different things. Having said that, it was particularly well run in my school so that definitely makes a difference.

Thing is though, something I've always said about TY (as both a student and teacher) is that you get out of it what you put in to it. The moany teenagers who say it's a waste of time and boring are generally the ones who just sit on their arses all year doing nothing instead of trying new hobbies, getting a part time job (I know there's not a lot out there now, but even volunteering in something), mixing with new classmates etc. Yet they're the same ones that when you suggest an activity to, will say "aw but we're in TY, we're not supposed to be doing stuff".

Do me a favour and stay at home so if you're going to sit with that pus on ya all day.

amacca

phasers wrote: »

It all depends on the individual school. Mine was shockingly bad and we did absolutely nothing for a year, but some schools set up all kinds of courses, trips, guest speakers and interesting classes for students to experience.

Interestingly I was reading today somewhere that guest speakers seem to have very little effect on students and I sometimes wonder about the effectiveness of some of the above too....then again break from the norm, mental stimulation...cant hurt I suppose

paper article was in relation to correlations between a persons health and their educational attainment....writer cited a study on the effectiveness of various different methods of trying to reduce peoples likelihood of taking up smoking

telling people about the rules etc (no effect) ..... telling people about the dangers (very little effect) ...... guest speaker (little or no effect) was the general gist of it I think

cocoshovel

No! NO! NO!!! I meant to pick it was pointless!! Eh oh well.


Biggest pile of ****e ever, we just sat in the same classroom from 9am-4pm and chatted, we rarely did any activities and we didn't do a single bit of learning, everybody went into 5th year with 0 motivation to do work and 100 times stupider. Im sure its much better in other schools but I went to a joke of a school filled with inbreds and bog folk.

Shane L

I helped create a school magazine, did 3 work experiences and discovered I didn't want to do architecture anymore and there was many other sport activities and trips throughout the year. TY was well worth it and 1 year older doing the Leaving cert has its advantage. The school I went to used to keep tabs on how everyone did in their LC and compared the results with the crowds who did and didn't do TY . Guess who came out on top every year statistically ?:)

amacca

Daisy03 wrote: »

I don't see how it could be a waste if the student makes an effort to make the most of the year.

true...its like almost any experience in that respect.....in my experience a lot of the students complaining about it seemed not to want to roll up their sleeves and take part.....get involved

thats where selecting / being allowed to select suitable students to take part comes in imo

Daisy03 wrote: »

Our principal tried to encourage students to do it, claiming that in his experience students who do it tend to do better in the LC.

On average - the vast majority of students who completed the programme in my former school done significantly better than those that went straight from JC ...so that to me was the best advertisement for it

amacca

cocoshovel wrote: »

Im sure its much better in other schools but I went to a joke of a school filled with inbreds and bog folk.

I'm sure they liked you too!

Shane L

@amacca I agree totally with guest speakers not having an influence had so many come in and warn us about the dangers of drugs especially and alcoholism and I really don't think its made a blind bit of difference mainly because they always bring in people who are the extreme cases.

Jess16

Shane L wrote: »

they always bring in people who are the extreme cases

To appeal to human interest. Who would you rather hear about -Mary who won a tenner or the guy who hit the jackpot?

amacca

Shane L wrote: »

@amacca I agree totally with guest speakers not having an influence had so many come in and warn us about the dangers of drugs especially and alcoholism and I really don't think its made a blind bit of difference mainly because they always bring in people who are the extreme cases.

yup and (predictably I suppose) when the dangers etc were emphasized the group exposed to this tactic showed a higher propensity to experiment / try out more of the stuff you were trying to warn them about

bit like having a big red button with do not push written on it .....

SarahBeep!

Are people aware you're allowed do 20% of your LC course in TY?? Sure as hell makes 6th year easier! I think TY should be made mandatory. Means people woulf by a lot closer to 18 leaving school.

massdebater

I skipped it and done the Leaving twice instead. The Leaving's so much handier the second time round and it means I got to drop mandatory subjects that I hated such as English and Irish. I'd recommend it.

ChloeElla

I think it was brilliant, but it depends on the school. We did First Aid, Self Defence, a Safe Food For Life course, & the TYs in my school are given responsibility for organising things like sports day, or activities for first years. We did charity work and had normal classes too, even doing an Irish oral, starting the LC maths course, etc. But some people didn't enjoy it so it's probably a personal thing

Witchie

My school was one of the trial schools for it in 89 and i found it was very helpful in the format we did. We had most of our lc course completed by christmas of 6th yr and were revising and preparing from then on. We got to do loads of modules like horesriding, self defence, yoga etc that made me want to not miss a day.

My eldest did Ty 2 yrs ago and apart from some great work experience, got very little benefit but am glad he did it or he would have done his lc at 16 which is too young.

My younger lad has agreed to live abroad with me for 4th year instead and he will go to a school with the British system and do AS levels and if he feels settled he will do A levels instead of moving back home but if he hates it we will come back for him to do 5th & 6th yr here.

Naomi00

About the money thing, in my school the only thing the government would have paid for was the teachers. We didn't do that many things you had to pay for and if we did we paid for them/organised them ourselves.

We were forever being made collect money for charity (as in outside w/ a bucket all day, in snow etc) which would have been fine except we never heard anything from most of them afterwards. A thankyou or even telling us the total we collected wouldn't have been so hard for them :rolleyes:

And we did tidy towns, and all that every week. Did 3 weeks of work experience which is basically working for free for someone else. So if it costs the state money to run TY, someone's making it back again off the free work

TY was ok, but not all what they make it out to be (it's different in every school) but I think some people are way too young to go straight into 5th year (some people were only 15 in TY, whereas most 5th years are 17/18) I think you should have the option though, because some people want to skip a year and that's ok. You need a break after the JC aswell.

sock puppet

amacca wrote: »

On average - the vast majority of students who completed the programme in my former school done significantly better than those that went straight from JC ...so that to me was the best advertisement for it

I think a lot of that can be explained by other factors. For instance in my school many of the guys and gals who skipped TY were the people who hated school the most.

I really enjoyed it though. I'd do it again every time. Even if it were absolutely **** it still would have given me a year to concentrate on sport and other hobbies.

amacca

sock puppet wrote: »

I think a lot of that can be explained by other factors. For instance in my school many of the guys and gals who skipped TY were the people who hated school the most.

Yeah fair point tbh...never even considered this but now that I look back on it the students that tended not to opt for it were the students that disliked school the most...

you learn something new everyday...cant believe I didn't really think of that, statistics can be blindingly seductive at times.

pragmatic1

Waste of time. Finish school and take a year out for travel before going to college.

marxcoo

17 is too young to be finishing school and going to college. A year can make all the difference in terms of maturity when it comes to people that age.

Anita Blow

You get as much from the year as you put in. If you don't do anything and just dos then you'll hate it.
I loved it and think it's one of the great unique things of our education system.
Its a great chance to get some work experience done which in turn influences your subject choices and career for leaving cert and gives you the chance to try new things.

People went on exchanges in my school and there was always trips and stuff. You had a portfolio to complete by the end of the year so you actually had to work.
Great thing about it was that there was no specific course and no levels for Irish, English, Maths which meant we could actually learn the subjects. Actually spoke Irish instead of learning regurgitated notes about poems and our maths teacher spent weeks on maths chapters which would normally have to be done within days in 5th and 6th year just to make sure everybody understood it.
Same for English. We had to write about our favourite books, songs and poems and we analysed movies.
God forbid we get a year where we actually learn to think for ourselves.
The only people that complain about it are dossers and parents who don't actually know what transition year is like. They see it as a year where zero work is done.

Killer Pigeon

It's stupid.

IMO, transition year reeks havoc on ones work ethic.

I would have preferred just doing the 3 year Junior Cert course and then starting the 2 year Leaving Cert course straight afterwards. When I would have completed the Leaving Cert I would have taken a gap year where I'd decide what I'd like to do in college and with the rest of my life. This would mean that during my Leaving cert year I could have concentrated fully on the Leaving cert without having to figure out what I would have wanted to put on my CAO form at the same time.

G_R

I did it and have to say, it was without question the best year of my Secondary School Education.

It's very true that you get out of it what you put in. If you didn't put any effort in, then you didn't get much out of it. We did subjects like European Studies, Irish Culture, Communications, Mi-Co (Mini Company), Business Development, Equine Studies, Special Projects, Drama... A really varied mix.

Our Mini-Company was entered into a National Competition where we came 4th in the Country, and nearly quadrupled our investors money over the year. (We sold shares at €5 each, paid out €17 something at the end of the year).

I did work experience in Paris and Dublin, learned loads about horses, put on what we thought was a brilliant play, although looking back at the DVD it's cringe worthy and the really pro-business element of the year is what made me want to do what I do now - I'm currently doing a B.Sc. in Business and Management in College.

The best thing about TY though, with out a doubt is the way gain so much confidence and make so many new friends. In 3rd year, I wouldn't say boo to a mouse. By the end of TY I was giving a business presentation for our Mi-Co to an auditorium of about 500 people (which really helped me for college) and took part in the TY Show in front of 300 people. If I was asked to do that in 2nd or 3rd year I wouldn't have had a chance. Our class was pretty small aswell, only 20, so we all became really good friends. Another big plus of TY is the way the teacher's treat you. We became friends, and were on a first name basis with most of them. That was really an asset in 5th and 6th year, being friends with the teachers really helped for the Leaving.

TL;DR: TY is Awesome. Do it.

Eoin Cunniffe 94

Transition Year is a really valuable year if you actually bother to make an effort during it !! It helped me in so many ways and it really shaped me as a person and a student ! It gives you valuable time to grow up and see what the real world is like. It makes you stand on your own two feet for once. It really motivated me towards study and choosing a career because it allows you to think for yourself.
As for costing the government money I completely disagree we paid serious money to cover any costs and even organised events for fundraising . IMO Ty benefits everyone involved including
The government as it helps mature and motivate teenagers!

LimerickLad92

I got alot of transition year "back in the day"

it focused me on what I wanted to do with my life, Introudced me to media e.g photoshop/video editing and got me into learning foreign languages.

It also meant I was 17, and not 16 doing my leaving cert

Compton

Delighted I skipped it, I hated school.

7Sins

There were 3 types of students when I was in school...

The Leaving Cert students including myself who saw school as a load of cock and couldn't wait to finish and either work or go to college. I myself have the biggest regret of not at least attempting to do the LC in one year as opposed to two. Seriously it's not hard like, I only studied for the final two months of 6th year and got the points I wanted and I was 17. Would've been much better to be 16 and take a year out to work before college or travel.

The Leaving Cert Applied students, generally a bit dimmer or just wanted a trade job when the times were good.

Transition Year students....oh jesus christ, bunch of irritating swatty mammy's boys and frigid girls. I can't phatom the logic of someone who wants to spend an extra year in school

Lord TSC

Not had a chance to read over the rest of the topic but here's my experience.

TY was probably the most important year of my life thus far. There's alot of my friends who, afterwards, said it was the biggest waste of time and damaged them, but for me, it helped me grow so much. I threw myself into a lot of projects and classes and found I developed so much. Thanks to TY, i got into debating which drastically increased my self-confidence. I shudder to think what I would be like had I not done that year.

The problem isn't with TY but with the percieved fact its a doss year. People go in wanting to do nothing and then complain at the end they did nothing. I went in wanting to do as much as possible and found it hugely rewarding and beneficial...

jester77

It's worth skipping it and going straight into 4th year and heading to college earlier