Astec bought by HKC

KoolKid

Have it from a reliable source that HKC have taken over Astec.
More when I find out.

KoolKid

Confirmed.

fred funk }{

Heard that today myself. Can't see Astec staying in Pearse street for too long. Sad day, I hope most of the staff get to keep their jobs. Always a great bunch to deal with.

altor

They will not be supporting any of Astec systems and will be making most of the Astec products obsolete in the next 12 months.

fred funk }{

altor wrote: »

They will not be supporting any of Astec systems and will be making most of the Astec products obsolete in the next 12 months.

Interesting. There will be a gap in the market. There's alot of Astec systems out there and alot of sensors to be replaced. Looks like people mightl need to change their whole system if they get a faulty sensor.

altor

Thats the way its looking.

KoolKid

Quite a lot of property's out there with minimal wiring designed for Astec 2 wire.
Could be quite the boost for wireless.

altor

Agree totally, going to be expensive for most home owners if problems arise. Thank god for hybrid systems.

Jnealon

Never liked their panels but they did make some good reliable inertias, more so than hkc.
Could never see the point of the minimal wiring on new builds, only suited the site electricians who made a quick buck and then disappeared soon after

fred funk }{

The latest I heard today was HKC were definitely going to produce a two wire system sensor and also produce the Fusion, I presume to facilitate future upgrades of the two wire systems. I can't see them spending too much time on the Astec stuff myself TBH.

Jnealon

fred funk }{ wrote: »

Interesting. There will be a gap in the market. There's alot of Astec systems out there and alot of sensors to be replaced. Looks like people mightl need to change their whole system if they get a faulty sensor.

I'm no astec expert but I have replaced PIRs, shocks contacts and panics with conventional types. I have also fitted limpets, wireless shocks contacts etc to them.
As long as you have the correct resitors you should be able to solve most problems.
The only device that I see giving trouble could be the smoke detectors

altor

fred funk }{ wrote: »

The latest I heard today was HKC were definitely going to produce a two wire system sensor and also produce the Fusion, I presume to facilitate future upgrades of the two wire systems. I can't see them spending too much time on the Astec stuff myself TBH.

This is not going to happen Fred. The two wire and Fusion will be no more in the next 12 months.

fred funk }{

altor wrote: »

This is not going to happen Fred. The two wire and Fusion will be no more in the next 12 months.

You're obviously getting different info than me Altor. One would think there's a market out there for the two wire components at least.

KoolKid

I'm hearing the same as Fred here from a number of different sources within Astec/HKC
Is someone telling you different Altor or are you speculating?

altor

altor wrote: »

They will not be supporting any of Astec systems and will be making most of the Astec products obsolete in the next 12 months.

The two wire is gone in the next 12 months.

altor

KoolKid wrote: »

I'm hearing the same as Fred here from a number of different sources within Astec/HKC
Is someone telling you different Altor or are you speculating?

I am not speculating, believe it or not

KoolKid

Again, is this your opinion ?or have you some source for this?

What I'm hearing is that they will support the Astec products for 5 years +
My Opinion would be they will continue with the 2 wire in some form or other but just supply Fusions as replacements & not market the panel.
No logic to having 2 10 zone panels ..
If they are going to get rid of the 2 wire also what exactly have they bought??

altor

I am not speculating, its not my opinion and yes I do have a source.

Believe it or not

KoolKid

Care to share??:D

altor

I am sharing but you dont believe

KoolKid

I have stated what I have heard from Astec/HKC (& Former Astecs )
If you have a source for something completely different then it would be good to share it. Otherwise people may well judge it as just speculation.
Again, my opinion would be if they are dropping the 2 wire then they have really bought nothing & simply paid good money to remove Astec from the market.
I find it hard to believe Astec were that much of a threat to HKC.

altor

If you dont believe me call me a liar :eek:

As I have said already believe me or not

You are not giving us much info here on your source only you where told by:

KoolKid wrote: »

I have stated what I have heard from Astec/HKC (& Former Astecs )

I would agree with one thing you have said :

KoolKid wrote: »

Former Astecs

If this is your main source I think you should try get more information from the new owner

KoolKid

I have no intention of calling you a liar.
I never said I don't believe you. Simply asking for sources.
If you don't want to say that's fine . I'll let people judge your comments & decide on the credibility of them. Time will tell one way or the other .
I am not going to go mentioning personal names of people I have spoken to but most in the industry will know who I'm referring to.
You may well be correct, I'm simply curious to HKCs thinking .

What would be your view on this:
If they drop the 2 wire, there is no reason to continue the Fusion. After all the ability to integrate and mix Astec with Global is its main feature.
Have they simply bought Astec out of the market?
That may well have happened without their intervention.

fred funk }{

Astec wasn't doing well, they were losing alot of money. HKC would have studied their books and would have seen their losses. I would be supprised if they bought them just to buy out the competition. They could have let them go to the wall, that's why I think they want something that Astec has that they don't.

Maybe they want to use Astecs very reliable inertias?

altor

Only the main man in HKC knows why he bought Astec. I could not see a future for the fusion once HKC released there new Securewave panel. I know Astec where working on wire free sensors that where to be released soon but so is the new Quantum70. This properly pushed Astec to give up the game as they where never going to match it.

KoolKid

fred funk }{ wrote: »

Maybe they want to use Astecs very reliable inertias?

Certainly an improvement on HKCs IMO.

KoolKid

Regarding support it seems this is their obligations.
Support must be continued for the duration of any warranty after the obsolete date. Most would also give plenty of notice of a line becoming obsolete.
So taking the worst case scenario that HKC announce from September 1st 2 wire is obsolete they must support panels & control equipment for 2 years & devices for 1 year at least .
The latest i have heard from HKC is that there are no plans at the moment and Astec will continue to operate as a separate entity.
Working on getting some official input from HKC on here soon.

altor

Interesting change from your information from yesterday, are you speculating ?

KoolKid

Not speculation. The obligations are legal requirements from what I am told.
The latest from HKC comes from HKC.
As I said I hope to get direct input from them on here soon.

altor

KoolKid wrote: »

As I said I hope to get direct input from them on here soon.

That would be the best thing to clarify what is happening direct from the source.

KoolKid

Email from Astec/HKC

Hi,

I just want to take this opportunity to update you on developments following the acquisition of Astec Security Limited. As you are aware HKC acquired Astec in the last week of July & have since then had some time to assess the operation. I would like to thank you for your business in the past & hope you will remain a customer in the future. I have outlined below some key points that may be of interest to you:

· HKC will be honor guarantees of Astec products for the remaining term of their guarantee and will provide ongoing Technical assistance of the products.
· HKC will hold spare parts for the support of Astec products for a minimum of 7 years
· HKC are currently carrying out a review of the complete Astec product portfolio and will rationalize the product range.
· The Astec Two Wire System & Fusion Panel will be discontinued over the coming months but as stated above they will be fully supported & guaranteed.
· A decision has been made to utilize the Astec sensor head throughout the HKC sensor range.
· Astec Limited will continue to operate out of their Pearse Street premises for the immediate future and the trade counter remains open for business, but please note below the new opening hours (see below).
· It is envisaged that over the next few months that the Astec operation will be integrated into HKC Ltd in Ballymount. The administration staff have already re-located to Ballymount (contact numbers below)
· HKC will not be operating a Trade Counter from Ballymount and if customers wish to purchase Astec products they will only be available through distribution.

Astec New Opening Hours

Mon – Thursday from 07:45 – 16:15
Friday 07:45 – 15:15

Astec Telephone Numbers from Monday next

Technical Support 01-6704202
Sales & Administration 01-6704201

I would like to thank you for your support of Astec in the past & hope you will continue to do so. If you have any further questions please contact me at nick [at] hkc.ie

altor

Thanks HKC for responding to this thread with your official input.
Counting down the days till the Quantum is released now

Jnealon

Adopting the Astec sensor head technology is a good thing as I found them to be very reliable.
With the fusion on the way out retro-fits and upgrades are going to be expensive.

Cadzer

Shouldnt be to expensive unless the price goes up on the detectors. Enough product for the next 7 years means there is alot of stock still around so cant see the price increasing. If they want to get rid of all the product they could sell at a discount.

KoolKid

Cadzer wrote: »

Shouldnt be to expensive unless the price goes up on the detectors. Enough product for the next 7 years means there is alot of stock still around so cant see the price increasing. If they want to get rid of all the product they could sell at a discount.

I think the Fusion is ideal to facilitate a gradual switch from 2 wire back to global. The PiRs & would be the biggest problem. Especially with limited wiring,

stormvogel

Its good that astec two wire is gone, the sensors were rubbish. My understanding is that HKC will support for 7 years but only on an advice basis and a programming basis, the 63, 49 and fusion panels will no longer be made and when the stock is sold that will be the end of them.....

KoolKid

As has been explained here. They will not just stop making anything.
They need to announce an obsolete date and then honour guarantees after that.
For panels and control equipment that's 2 years.

altor

stormvogel wrote: »

Its good that astec two wire is gone, the sensors were rubbish. My understanding is that HKC will support for 7 years but only on an advice basis and a programming basis, the 63, 49 and fusion panels will no longer be made and when the stock is sold that will be the end of them.....

I dont think many installers will be still putting in these system as they know they are going to become obsolete soon enough. At lease there is plenty of stock there if replacements are needed. The 2 wire and the fusion is gone in the coming months.

Jnealon

stormvogel wrote: »

Its good that astec two wire is gone, the sensors were rubbish. My understanding is that HKC will support for 7 years but only on an advice basis and a programming basis, the 63, 49 and fusion panels will no longer be made and when the stock is sold that will be the end of them.....

Never liked them myself but my electrical sub used them a lot and never had any issues apart from a batch of M/cs a few years ago. The difference between him and most other astec installers/electricians was that he installed them properly.
You will see a lot of astec systems with connector blocks stuffed everywhere, behind keypads, behind sensors, smoke detectors etc.
Poor connections is where most faults occur

stormvogel

bad installations and connector blocks certainly cause alot of problems. Solder joints and heat shrink makes things alot easier...... But contact entry fault on a zone fitted with inertias only is a real problem.... Glad they are gone, or will be soon. Take overs may generate a few more quid now.

fred funk }{

stormvogel wrote: »

bad installations and connector blocks certainly cause alot of problems. Solder joints and heat shrink makes things alot easier...... But contact entry fault on a zone fitted with inertias only is a real problem.... Glad they are gone, or will be soon. Take overs may generate a few more quid now.

There was a manufacturing flaw in the MC's several years ago. Whilst soldering the reeds they need to bend the legs, they mistakenly cracked the reed cylinder and that caused all the problems. The past several years they have been very reliable.

I have literally installed hundreds of the two wire systems. My biggest gripe with them is in regards to the sounder bus, if there are multiple things connected it is very difficult to find the fault as there could be an external bell, internal and smokies.

There has been a few houses over the years that have broke my heart where I have replaced nearly every component on the alarm. All those houses were Astec two systems, I never had those sort of problems with other systems but I do agree, most of the reported faults are down to bad connections as the Astec has very little tolerance of dodgy connections.

Just to ad, I have never any problems the newer Fusion panel which I think is a super panel.

stormvogel

Granted, the fusion is good but i was wary of it simply because it is an astec, but have never had a prob with it after installing 10 or so....

altor

stormvogel wrote: »

bad installations and connector blocks certainly cause alot of problems. Solder joints and heat shrink makes things alot easier...... But contact entry fault on a zone fitted with inertias only is a real problem.... Glad they are gone, or will be soon. Take overs may generate a few more quid now.

Thats where it got its bad name from. From being out to fix these systems it is more so down to bad installation practices than the system itself.

fred funk }{

Astec/HKC have stopped production of the Astec products exept the global sensors. They only have a handfull of components left and when they're gone they're gone.

So much for the seven year rule. Clearly Gerry Kelly isn't concerned about it.

Jnealon

Replacing astec sensors, contacts, panics etc should not be an issue as long as you have the correct resistors for each type of sensor

fred funk }{

Jnealon wrote: »

Replacing astec sensors, contacts, panics etc should not be an issue as long as you have the correct resistors for each type of sensor

Correct. Where I see the problems are when the likes of a keypad goes faulty/damaged, the complete system will have to be replaced. And, there are loads of alarms out there with Keypads and PIR's wired from spare pairs from cables, that will make retrofitting difficult. I must stock-up on resistors .Interesting times ahead.

altor

fred funk }{ wrote: »

Astec/HKC have stopped production of the Astec products exept the global sensors. They only have a handfull of components left and when they're gone they're gone.

They have already told us this was going to happen in there e-mail they sent around. As global sensors can be used on the older system there is no issue there but I can understand where your coming from with the keypads plus if worse comes to worse retrofitting but again with the cables it can be incorporated into another system. Not good for customers with these system but at lease there is an option.

KoolKid

I have no problem replacing with global devices but I'll be damned if I use HKC units.

altor

The HKC unit will now be using the Astec head in there devices.

Jnealon

Makes sense

altor

I think so also.