Season 3 is upon us...

Arciphel

Servers should be back up at 11am CET which is 30 mins ago Irish time (I think). What do people make of the map changes for season 3, I for one am sad to see Scrap Station and Metalopolis go, but looking forward to the new maps, especially in 2v2 games.

I am hoping to get out of the 1v1 bronze finally, played and won a lot of games since the ladder lock. In 2v2 been #1 in Silver for a few weeks so hoping to get into gold now... what is everyone else aiming for?

Sabre0001

Time flies! Hardly played SC during Season 2 Just hoping to get back playing...Bronze league is fine for me - don't put in enough effort to get (or enjoy) any higher.

Decerto

3/4 new maps have chokes for forge fe v z which is awesome, they all have ramps for pvp and i dont think any of them feel too small yet but ive only messed about on them. Overall happy with map changes apart from metalopolis

Lost my placement and got placed in masters \o/ but then won a 2nd one and got rank1:D. hoping to finally get high masters which was like 1800+ as of last season.

godspal

Got placed Gold after I lost my placement match. Clawing my up the ranks in SC2.
Will hopefully get plat in a couple of months.

UnholyGregor

they removed the **** maps, and added more **** maps. Really broken for tvz withg some really bull**** abusable terrain features. I wish blizz would just accept that they have no idea how to make maps, and import all the gsl maps for ladder. The current map pol is an insult to anyone thats serious about the game.

Had to veto all the new maps, nothing changed this season, they removed my old 3 vetos, and add more.

godspal

Why do all the new maps allow a turtleling player take a gold expo? (except antiga shipyard)
The chokes all start after an entrance to a gold what stupidity.

Arciphel

Cry me a river, Zergies! :P

Going to have to go back to playing Protoss now, all the expansions suit the 'Toss down to the ground. And destructible rocks so you don't even have to destroy your own buildings to get out

pixelburp

Ha; I spent all of season 2 struggling to get into Platinum, and with one placement match I get into that league. Guess I better start reading into more common Plat builds.

freepower

^ just do masters builds badly, that worked for me in Plat.

And in diamond. >.>

Personally, looking forward to playing some terrans. Have played like, 45 ZvZs, 40 ZvPs and 20 ZvTs since June. And it's my favourite matchup.

The_Keeper

Got into Diamond, delighted, spent the last month or so playing diamonds from high Platinum. Now have to set my sights on Masters!

Zombrex

Finally got out of Bronze into Silver, even though I lost my placement match. I'm a happy camper.

Tenger

Arciphel wrote: »

I am hoping to get out of the 1v1 bronze finally, played and won a lot of games since the ladder lock...... what is everyone else aiming for?

Same as yourself. Played about 10 games so far. Rank 7, lets try to stay there or higher!

In terms of the new maps, never liked Scarp Station anyway. And am too low to really care which map set favours my race and/or playstyle.

Time to start my 2nd gaming session of season 3.

Decerto

Ok seriously that new map that abyssal caverns is kinda retarded in zvp close positions, with an 8? pool zerg can reach your forge fe wall off, brake down the forge and get into your base before a cannon finishes off a 12 forge

UnholyGregor

Decerto wrote: »

Ok seriously that new map that abyssal caverns is kinda retarded in zvp close positions, with an 8? pool zerg can reach your forge fe wall off, brake down the forge and get into your base before a cannon finishes off a 12 forge

the new maps are ridiculously anti zerg. just 3gate expo ffs. you think you can fast expo on a tiny map in close positions, while being cheesed? let me put this in perspective for you, you think i complain about map balance when my 15hatch gets killed by a proxy 2gate on close position shattered temple? no, i dont play like a retard, and dont fe on small maps.

godspal

Cry me a river, Zergies!

Ok seriously that new map that abyssal caverns is kinda retarded in zvp close positions, with an 8? pool zerg can reach your forge fe wall off, brake down the forge and get into your base before a cannon finishes off a 12 forge

Typical when comes to talk of imba maps. Zerg are just whingers, while Toss and Terran are "I can't play exactly how I'd like to play. IMBA!"

Khazidhea

UnholyGregor wrote: »

i dont play like a retard, and dont fe on small maps.

Wow, things've changed
I just thought Gregor should know how Idra went gas\pool\fastspeed on metal vs boxer instead of 15 hatch

UnholyGregor

boxer cheeses every game, as i said, i dont fe if im being cheesed

godspal

Just won 10 in a row! Oh yeah! Season 3 is goin well!

UnholyGregor

every game i play my opponents favoured, and im dominating them pretty hard, so either my mmr's ****ed and im actually playing retards (most likely) or season 3gm incoming

godspal

i think my MMR may be a bit wonky as well. I am rofl-stomping opponents.
The thing is I can't say all MMR is wonky, because if I am winning somebody is losing.

As for Boxer, he's an alchemist IMO, I have seen him turn bunker rush cheese in to macro gold.

UnholyGregor

perhaps in broodwar,, but in sc2 hes a pretty mediocre player, living off his broodwar fame. if the game lasts longer than 10 mins, he struggles v the most average players, hes well past his prime in gaming

Funky

He's been looking decent this MLG after being awful for ages. The build he stomped Idra with wasn't cheesey, though it did take advantage of Idra's predictable ling/bling opening. I've doubts about his TvT/TvP vs decent players though.

Khazidhea

I guess I did not make my point clear. What I meant was ... errr ... it is interesting to note that now you think that FE on small maps is risky and you dont do it anymore (or do you?) And it's different from what you did before

And then I just watched that boxer vs idra game and he went for safe build which is different from what you said about idra before

Boxer always cheesing and playing safe based on that is one thing - decision made before game. Scouting cheese and reacting is other thing. But to 15 hatch or not is so early in the game, I dont think you scout it in time.


The way your are playing favored players is easily explained. In fact pretty much everyone is playing against favored opponents right now. In the beginning of a new season your opponents will be always favored, because you have very little points. In fact you will be shown as favored to your opponent as well. This will continue until your points get closer to your MMR.

The Favored system compares your opponent's hidden MMR with your adjusted points and calculates an amount of points that the game will be worth if you win or lose. If you stand to gain 0-4 points or lose 20-24, you are Favored; if you stand to gain 5-9 points or lose 15-19, you are Slightly Favored; if you stand to earn or lose 10-14 points, the Teams are Even.

The important thing to remember is that "favored" does not always mean "better" unless both players' points have approximately reached their MMRs. Until that time, the "favored" indicator only serves to determine how many points a match is worth, and is not an indicator of skill.

from here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=195273

Khazidhea

I guess I did not make my point clear. What I meant was ... errr ... it is interesting to note that now you think that FE on small maps is risky and you dont do it anymore (or do you?) And it's different from what you did before

And then I just watched that boxer vs idra game and he went for safe build which is different from what you said about idra before

Boxer always cheesing and playing safe based on that is one thing - decision made before game. Scouting cheese and reacting is other thing. But to 15 hatch or not is so early in the game, I dont think you scout it in time.


The way your are playing favored players is easily explained. In fact pretty much everyone is playing against favored opponents right now. In the beginning of a new season your opponents will be always favored, because you have very little points. In fact you will be shown as favored to your opponent as well. This will continue until your points get closer to your MMR.

The Favored system compares your opponent's hidden MMR with your adjusted points and calculates an amount of points that the game will be worth if you win or lose. If you stand to gain 0-4 points or lose 20-24, you are Favored; if you stand to gain 5-9 points or lose 15-19, you are Slightly Favored; if you stand to earn or lose 10-14 points, the Teams are Even.

The important thing to remember is that "favored" does not always mean "better" unless both players' points have approximately reached their MMRs. Until that time, the "favored" indicator only serves to determine how many points a match is worth, and is not an indicator of skill.

from here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=195273

UnholyGregor

Khazidhea wrote: »

I guess I did not make my point clear. What I meant was ... errr ... it is interesting to note that now you think that FE on small maps is risky and you dont do it anymore (or do you?) And it's different from what you did before

And then I just watched that boxer vs idra game and he went for safe build which is different from what you said about idra before

Boxer always cheesing and playing safe based on that is one thing - decision made before game. Scouting cheese and reacting is other thing. But to 15 hatch or not is so early in the game, I dont think you scout it in time.


The way your are playing favored players is easily explained. In fact pretty much everyone is playing against favored opponents right now. In the beginning of a new season your opponents will be always favored, because you have very little points. In fact you will be shown as favored to your opponent as well. This will continue until your points get closer to your MMR.



from here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=195273

well ladder points are irrelevant, its mmr that favoured is based on. Since our mmr is carried over from season 2, nothing has changed. playing a favoured player now is the same as a favoured player last season. points dont matter

Also, idra opened safe without scouting because he knows boxer always cheeses, as he said in an interview. nothing i have said is different from what i've said before. dont fe if its a small map or cheese. I dont recall saying otherwise

Khazidhea

I just quoted earlier how points affect the favored system. It compare your opponent MMR to your points. So while your points are low (compared to mmr) you gain points fast (because your opponent MMR is usually close to yours). Thus in the beginning of a new season your opponents are always favored and you gain a lot of points. That is until your points get close to your MMR.

Yes, playing favored player is the same as in last season as in they did not change the system. The system does not work the way you think it works. And apparently you did not read the last part of my post.


I pretty much dont know anything about new maps, but I think XC is rather small and you did FE on that map. Actually the other reason against FE here (this applies to TvP as well) is just how wide open the natural is. I go with the same logic on metal, because the close air spawn the ground rush distance is not that long.

I just thought you dont FE on XC anymore and that would've been interesting What is a small map for you?


And how do you know if you are being cheesed before you make a decision to go for 15 hatch? I dont think you can scout it in time. I am trying to say unless you assume something before the game (like idra assuming boxer will cheese) you should know are you going for FE or pool based on map only

I mean of course if you 10 scout and see 2 rax in your natural you dont FE. But if you 10 scout your drone does not reach terran's base to see what is going on by the time you have to make a decision between FE or pool. Right?

UnholyGregor

i get what you are saying about the favoured system, but at the beginning of a new season, everyone will have low points, so i thought it would all be even.

anyway, i fe on all maps, unless its close pos, i shouldnt really at times, but meh, old habbits die hard
though, tbh, its pretty easy to hold off most 2rax agression with fe, unless the terran gets some bull**** abusive bunker position, like the one boxer discovered on xnc, where you cannot attack the scv, but thats just blatantly broken, not a problem with the opening.

Tenger

In regard to the Season 3 map pool:
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/2878771457

One of the more notable changes we’re making is the removal of Metalopolis. We realize that this is quite a popular map, and we wanted to discuss the reasons why we might make such a change and hopefully lay some of your concerns to rest. We also would like to point out that merely because a map has been removed from the pool, does not mean that it will never make a return in the future. Despite its flaws, Metalopolis has strong potential to be a map that returns in future ladder seasons.

Still, there are reasons why we decided to retire Metalopolis for now:

Metalopolis has been around for quite a long time, over a year including beta. We felt that taking it out of the rotation would make some room for variety in the map pool.

Metalopolis suffers balance issues when close spawn positions occur, but becomes too predictable when they are simply disabled. Close positions have been under a lot of discussion lately, and we’re definitely examining better options to allow for random spawn positions across the map pool without also creating too much predictability and vulnerability to proxy rushes.

Overall balance has also proven to be an issue on Metalopolis -- even factoring in close position spawn issues. It’s among the least balanced maps currently in the ladder pool, and along with Scrap Station (also being removed) and Tal’darim Altar, has a heavy (60%+) bias toward zerg at the highest levels of play.

If Metalopolis makes a return to the ladder pool in the future, it will likely receive some balance tinkering, much like that administered to Lost Temple which resulted in the creation of Shattered Temple......

Zombrex

Ah, I like Metalopois, though I'm not a top level player so can't testify to its balance issues.

While people criticize Blizzard it should be remembered that they have access to Battle.net stats, and can see in real time if anomolies are appearing in their quest to keep everything perfectly balanced. It is interesting that Metalopis has a higher than normal win ratio for Zerg.

Kirby

Its to do with the vast amounts of ramps that run parallell to most of the map. You can put infestors on high ground for nearly every engagement. Makes a difference.

pixelburp

Jesus; maybe it's just the fact the season is only started & there's still a lot of mismatched players, but I'm up against a lot of turtlers & losing to unexpected single-unit plays. It feels like I'm back in Bronze at the moment, I've NO idea what to expect from players (except Zerg of course, that shít smells what league you're in)

godspal

You're ZERG, you should be praying for weird builds and turtlers.

I only hate timing attacks (always wonky at gold) which are designed to expose a window that may or may not be there.

Actually delayed timing attacks are beating me at the moment. Scout 4 gate... 7.30 mins nothing. Start droning again. 8 mins oh **** thats a lot of units. I am just a small bit under-prepared. My stupid greed keeps on losing me games.

BlitzKrieg

HAHAHA!

After a sadly too long hiatus I am happy to be back playing in season 3 and my first night couldnt have gone better.


It may be down in lowly silver but to walk away with a 5-0 win for my first night in season 3 has me grinning ear to ear.

4 protoss and 1 terran, a cannon rush a dark templer rush and a banshee rush all poorly executed all twarted by macro. I am finding all the maps are very 15 hatch friendly.


I Put replays at bottom if anyone is interested or has some tips for me to get from position 1 in my silver league to position 1 in a platinum league.

The terrain in particular is entertaining just because I was convinced I had lost it in the final minutes but my constant harrassment of his expansion attempts allowed for a hail mary pass when I defeated his battlecruisers/siege tank/banshee/marine assault (!!!) to rush his now empty base with my remaining forces and score the victory try!

searing crater (2) is the terrain

the other two are against protoss.

TheDoc

Similar to the above, I've come back for season 3.

Been playing alot of customs and friendly games with mates to try get back the edge.

I got up to Diamond in Season 1 and when Cataclysm came out I dissappeared entirely.

I ment to get my placement matches done this weekend but got stuck playing LoL last night.

In fairness i dont expect to get back into Diamond/Platinum , would be happy enough just getting Bronze and working my way up again

I've been asked to complete five placement matches, prbs due to missing season 2.

Will let you know how I get on. The hardest part is getting back on the horse, the fear of just being ****, just need to accept I'm going to be terrible and with some work, practice and some Day9 I'll get back to somewhere near where I was

godspal

Got promoted to platinum MOFOS!

All I need now is some practice partners.

wikpal.951

Xios if you wanna practice ZvZ with me it would be very much appreciated, and I just need a plat Terran and Toss to help me work out the kinks in my play.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CH4w7UZV3NA

pixelburp

Find platinum quite tough, though I've not been playing much lately generally, but even so. Languishing in mid table, not sure what I can be doing better because I'm getting rolled by a lot of first assaults. Some practise partners would be sweet here too

godspal

I wrote this to celebrate my promotion:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=258239#1

RoyalMarine

thats a great write up godspal!

UnholyGregor

nice one wikipal, though you could have got to diamond with the time that must have taken to type

Chicks

Gratz on promotion dude! Really nice guide too

Grimebox

godspal wrote: »

I wrote this to celebrate my promotion:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=258239#1

A lot of emphasis on scouting in this. I didn't start scouting my opponent's base effectively until platinum. Am I alone with this? I would try see the center of the map to see incoming attacks but that's all I did at most.

Very good write up none the less

Also another reason why I didnt scout at lower levels. Low level players dont even know what theyre doing themselves. One gas or two gas is meaningless. Similar to good poker player playing against a bad one. There no point in trying to get into the bad players head, just play better than him. In starcraft, this equates to having better mechanics. The only thing that matters to scout is: starport with techlab, dark shrine and spire.

Kirby

Grimebox wrote: »

A lot of emphasis on scouting in this. I didn't start scouting my opponent's base effectively until platinum. Am I alone with this? I would try see the center of the map to see incoming attacks but that's all I did at most.

Very good write up none the less

Also another reason why I didnt scout at lower levels. Low level players dont even know what theyre doing themselves. One gas or two gas is meaningless.

While the gas is true, the tech is not. Even bad players will beat you if you dont scout. If you see a roach warren, its roaches. it sounds obvious but if you don't see it, you can't counter it. If you see quick tech to lair its usually fast muta. If you know they are coming 4 minutes before he has them you can get ure AA early and win easily. If you see a reactor on a factory you know hellions. If you see a tech lab on a starport you know its banshees. etc. etc.

Even when I sucked at bronze, I still base scouted. It's just good RTS play.

Tenger

Kirby wrote: »

While the gas is true, the tech is not. Even bad players will beat you if you dont scout.....

Even when I sucked at bronze, I still base scouted. It's just good RTS play.

As a bronze sucker I agree. I look for the add-ons on terran or the warren/spire to let me know what to expect. I like to use a scan about 6 and 10 mins to let me see his base if I haven't dropped him. (And it may be a bad move but I do like 2-3 reapers at the 6 min mark to base scout)

I would agree that some bronze players are unscoutable undecipherable as they build stuff then do no use it.

godspal

This is possibly the worst strategy I have ever seen.
(Excuse my atrocious spelling in the replay's name.)

After the game I tried to chat to the guy to see if he was trolling or what; he logged out straight away.

EDIT: This Plat v Plat btw.

freepower

Man, I'm doing pretty well since I focused on larva injects and counterattacks...



(not pictured - losing streak as I start to play again :P )

Lafortezza

Top of my Silver league now (play as Terran), playing mostly top 20 Golds, 1 Platinum player.

Still struggling with multitasking. Scouting and drop play is awful unless I ignore my macro. Most of my losses are coming from bad army control which is frustrating. Nearly all my games I'm ahead in macro/bases/workers/prod buildings.

I have never built a Thor.

TheDoc

Well over the weekend played my placement matches for Season 3.

I had to do five placements since missing season 2,

Finished 4-1 and placed into Platinum :O

Hoping to get back into the swing of things bit by bit, will also be looking to attend some of the lans going on, just for the lan buzz factor

Arciphel

I finally got into 1v1 Silver after 358 league wins since I started playing in November last year It's been a tough slog... I am still not very good, I play terran and protoss and my weakest match-up by far is against Zerg - still learning but still enjoying the game. Now to get into Gold!

Lightness

Lafortezza wrote: »

Top of my Silver league now (play as Terran), playing mostly top 20 Golds, 1 Platinum player.

Still struggling with multitasking. Scouting and drop play is awful unless I ignore my macro. Most of my losses are coming from bad army control which is frustrating. Nearly all my games I'm ahead in macro/bases/workers/prod buildings.

I have never built a Thor.

If its the case that you're nearly always ahead well then your doing well and you shouldn't worry too much, just takes time and experience to know when where and how to engages Good luck in your future games

Dubhthamlacht

Having been without an internet connection for about 2 months, I finally returned about a week ago to SC2. So I find that I have been sent back to the bronze leagues for season 3. I admit to being a very inexpereinced player (only really started for a short while during season 2) and still learning. After about 50 games and something like 40 wins from that I am up in the top 6 in my division. I am starting to play against better players and finding it tougher.

I play as Terran and still getting used to recognising what other players are building and how to counter it.

My start is to rapidly get 2 medivacs, marines and a tank and drop behind behind the crystals being mined of opposing base. I found that the crystals act as a barrier for to slow /impede opposing force (one particular match , I had mass zealots all funneling down a narrow path where they were easily picked off). This has brought me the vast majority of my wins. I usually have walled up the entrance quick enough to my base to hold off most cheeses.

Obviously against better players, this doesn't always work and I struggle in a longer game (due to going all out to win it by 15 minute mark). My weaknesses are expanding and defending that expansion, micro and keeping up with what other player is building and inexperience in a longer game.

What is required to get promoted from bronze for those that have done it??
Do you need to hold the number 1 position in your ladder for some time? is it a certain number of wins?

Arciphel

It took me three seasons and 350 odd wins to get promoted :pac::pac::pac: but maybe that is just me. I think it has to do with you win:loss ratio when you are top of your league and start playing people from the league above you. Once that ratio settles into a steady value greater than about 50% wins then I think (think) that is how it works, but I don't know for sure.

What do you do if your all-in drop doesn't work, do you just GG or do you have a back-up plan?