Replace battery, fuse and transformer - excessive charge?

booklover1975

Recently had our alarm company call out to fix our alarm, the alarm panel died and the box that holds the battery was overheating.

The alarm company said it was probably a new battery and advised there was a call out charge of 140 euro which included half an hour labour and the price of the parts - with a new battery about 30 euro.

When the engineer called out, he had a look and said the fuse and the battery needed changing, but didnt have a fuse with him so went off for half an our to get it, that didnt work so he said it needed a new transformer but didnt have it with him so had to go off for another half hour to get one. Inbetween this he was on the phone for a good while (think he was onto the boss to get advice as the replacement fuse hadn;t worked).

From the time he arrived to the time he left it was 2 hours (which included the hour he was off getting parts and the time he was on the phone).

He then rang the office to work out the bill and said he was here for 2 hours and the bill was 300 euro.

Is this excessive??? Should i be paying full rates while he was off getting parts or should he not have had these with him?

What do you think?

Thanks in advance

fred funk }{

Yes, it is excessive. He obviously thought the fuse was blown as the panel wasn't getting any power when it was actually the transformer the was gone.

That was his incompetence and you shouldn't have to pay for that. The engineer might not of had a spare transformer but he definitely should have had a spare fuse. I would have charged about half of that.

Jnealon

Sounds like an episode of "Rogue Traders"
It's very expensive, demand a reduction and ask the company why they sent out an unsupervised "apprentice"

booklover1975

Thanks for the replies.

I would have thought that the engineer would have been able to replace the battery, fuse and transformer in the half hour that was included with the call out charge of 140 euro!

Is the call out charge very high?? I'm not complaining about paying this as I did agree to it but is it on the high end of things?

Also, how much would a fuse and a transformer cost?

As an aside, I read somewhere that any work on the alarm system needs to be done by a certified company - is this true or could I have got a qualified electrician to replace these items?

KoolKid

€140 is way ott for a call out charge alone.
Fuses cost little or nothing, transformers would generally be spares or ex stock.
You should only employ PSA licenced installer to work on your alarm.

booklover1975

It was a PSA licensed company:mad:

On another query if we don't have the engineer code is my only option to change the alarm code, to get an alarm company to come out and do a whole install again. How long would this take / how much would it cost roughly, its a 4 bed 2 storey house?

Will any alarm company be able to do it or do i have to get who installed the alarm?

altor

booklover1975 wrote: »

It was a PSA licensed company:mad:

On another query if we don't have the engineer code is my only option to change the alarm code, to get an alarm company to come out and do a whole install again. How long would this take / how much would it cost roughly, its a 4 bed 2 storey house?

Will any alarm company be able to do it or do i have to get who installed the alarm?

Anyone can repair an alarm, there is no certification needed but I would recommend getting someone who has experience in doing so to fix it. The installer should of made you aware of the cost before doing the job. It is not your problem that he did not have the transformer in stock, although he wants you to pay for it. I would tell him where to go. It is a matter of defaulting the system and reprogramming but if it is working now I would wait till you have another problem with the system.

KoolKid

booklover1975 wrote: »

It was a PSA licensed company:mad:

Wasn't suggesting otherwise,I was simply answering your question above.

booklover1975 wrote: »

On another query if we don't have the engineer code is my only option to change the alarm code, to get an alarm company to come out and do a whole install again. How long would this take / how much would it cost roughly, its a 4 bed 2 storey house?

Will any alarm company be able to do it or do i have to get who installed the alarm?

If the panel is engineer locked that's the only option.
As you have seen call outs vary a lot so shop around. Certainly a lot less than above. €50-€90 would be average.
Any company can unlock & reset & reprogram the system. If they say they can't then they don't know what they are doing , get someone who does.

hickeyowl

Has anyone got a price for a transformer for a aritech cs350 ?

altor

hickeyowl wrote: »

Has anyone got a price for a transformer for a aritech cs350 ?

You could try some of the suppliers on the suppliers list here. That panel and parts are not made anymore but you might be lucky. Price wise between 60-70 Euro.

hickeyowl

Thanks Altor.

ted1

Tell the company you will not pay. That much as they sent an incomptent tech out. If he bothered to use a meter he could have seen the fuse wad ok in two seconds.

altor

hickeyowl wrote: »

Thanks Altor.

Your welcome, any problems let us know.

hickeyowl

Hi Altor. I rang around today looking but no joy. Any other options ?

altor

hickeyowl wrote: »

Hi Altor. I rang around today looking but no joy. Any other options ?

Where are you based ?

hickeyowl

I live in Maynooth.

altor

hickeyowl wrote: »

I live in Maynooth.

I have a few off some old panels if you want one. I will send you a P.M

hickeyowl

Your a star. Thank you.

altor

hickeyowl wrote: »

Your a star. Thank you.

Your welcome, always happy to help

hickeyowl

Hi Altor. Just want to says thank you for the help with the alarm system. I was thinking I would of had to get a whole new system installed when I could not get the transformer. Keep up the good work.

hickeyowl.

altor

hickeyowl wrote: »

Hi Altor. Just want to says thank you for the help with the alarm system. I was thinking I would of had to get a whole new system installed when I could not get the transformer. Keep up the good work.

hickeyowl.

Your welcome hickeyowl, always happy to help
That system is obsolete now so getting replacement parts is getting harder.

booklover1975

booklover1975 wrote: »

Recently had our alarm company call out to fix our alarm, the alarm panel died and the box that holds the battery was overheating.

The alarm company said it was probably a new battery and advised there was a call out charge of 140 euro which included half an hour labour and the price of the parts - with a new battery about 30 euro.

When the engineer called out, he had a look and said the fuse and the battery needed changing, but didnt have a fuse with him so went off for half an our to get it, that didnt work so he said it needed a new transformer but didnt have it with him so had to go off for another half hour to get one. Inbetween this he was on the phone for a good while (think he was onto the boss to get advice as the replacement fuse hadn;t worked).

From the time he arrived to the time he left it was 2 hours (which included the hour he was off getting parts and the time he was on the phone).

He then rang the office to work out the bill and said he was here for 2 hours and the bill was 300 euro.

Is this excessive??? Should i be paying full rates while he was off getting parts or should he not have had these with him?

What do you think?

Thanks in advance

Hi all

thanks for all the replies, just an update. Got the bill in the post today for 378 euro:mad:

Breakdown as follows:
Callout charge 140 This was supposed to include 30 mins work
2 Hours Work 120
Transformer 82
Fuses 5
Battery 31

Will be ringing them tomorrow to have it out with them. Considering the guy told me it was 300 on the day - and the general opinion is that was excessive!!

Do the prices for the parts sound about right though??

KoolKid

€140 call out is way OTT & then to charge another €120 labour is worse.
€5 for a fuse???
Now I have heard it all.
€82 for a transformer is way OTT also considering a whole panel would be €100 + vat approx .
Also does the call out not cover labour?
Did it seriousally take these guys 3 hours to change a transformer , a battery & a fuse???
Including a full service this would be under an hour & should be covered in the inital call out.
I wouldn't pay that & I would be looking for a new company to look after you in the future.

booklover1975

The call out of 140 was to include 30 mins labour.....then they charged me for an additional 2 hours.

It was 2 hours from the time he arrived to the time he left - but he was gone for at least 30-35 mins TWICE!!! and was on the phone for ages to try to find out what to try next as replacing the battery didnt work.....

Certainly didn't service the whole system - so he def should have replaced all 3 items in the half hour that was included in the call out charge?

Re the price of the transformer, maybe he had to buy the whole panel and charged me the full price? would this be the norm????

altor

booklover1975 wrote: »

Hi all

thanks for all the replies, just an update. Got the bill in the post today for 378 euro:mad:

Breakdown as follows:
Callout charge 140 This was supposed to include 30 mins work
2 Hours Work 120
Transformer 82
Fuses 5
Battery 31

Will be ringing them tomorrow to have it out with them. Considering the guy told me it was 300 on the day - and the general opinion is that was excessive!!

Do the prices for the parts sound about right though??

Yes, it was excessive, nearly 3 times what I charge for a call out to fix a fault :eek:
If an engineer has to go get a part why should you have to pay him to do so. What system was the transformer for ? 60-70 would be a normal price for them. The fuse, call out and labour charge are way over the top.

KoolKid

I wouldn't pay anyway near €70 for a transformer.:eek:
I'd buy the panel , keypad & power supply for a little more that way the customer gets a cheaper transformer,the next customer that needs a keypad gets a cheaper keypad & the next customer who needs the panel PCB replaced gets likewise.

Jnealon

That's just wrong for a company to do this.
I would make an official complaint on paper, they should have a complaints procedure if they are licensed
Not sure what else you can do, if you don't pay they will probably take you to court.

KoolKid

I would be asking them to explain 3 hours labour for such a simple job.

booklover1975

Just an update:mad:

After 2 days of ringing the company and being promised someone would call me back, I eventually got to speak to someone today.

They said the reason the price on the day and the invoice differed was because the parts used were different than their normal parts.

I queried the 2.5 hours work that the engineer was supposed to have put in and i was told while he was gone looking for parts, he was working on the job. I said its a good job he didn't have to go to Cork for teh parts and come back to the house the next morning or I could have got a bill for 1.5K!!!

They eventually agreed to knock 60 off the bill but I'm still being charged for 1.5 hours work! They could not explain why it took the engineer so long to do a simple job.

I offered to pay the call out charge which included 30 mins and the parts but they said no.

I asked the office manager to call me back but surprise surprise they never did!

KoolKid

If they said someone would call you back then the ball is in their court.
Don't pay this yet. If someone calls asking for payment simply say you are still awaiting a call from so & so.
Still way OTT pricing IMO.
Did yo ask why a transformer costs 80% the price of a panel & keypad?:D

Jnealon

Hold out for as long as you can but I suspect you will have to pay this.
I would have a good idea who this is as I had one person call me to fix a CS350 after paying out €230, and they didn't even fix it

booklover1975

I know I will probably have to pay it but its just frustating that I know they have overcharged me, but I hate having bills hanging over me. also frustating to know that their customer service is so bad and they won't have the courtsey to phone me back

One thing though, I've learned my very expensive lesson:(

altor

I would ring who ever certify them and make an complaint also. They wont be long getting in touch with you then. Realistically if they dont have a part to fix your alarm you should not be made to fork out for them to go get one, again it is not your fault. There call out charge is very expensive but that will have to be paid if you agreed to it, parts will also have to be paid for. The extra 2 hours labour they are charging I would refuse to pay.

KoolKid

As they have said they will call you back I would wait for that call.
Always put it back into their hands and leave the onus on them to handle the situation. If they dont contact you then they can't really demand payment now can they?

I would also ask why you have to pay labour for a part been collected. Thios is a scam. I would generally say to someone I'll drop back tomorrow or whenever suits them. I don't expect the customer to pay for my collection of parts.

altor

I agree, it is a scam, the norm would be to either rearrange the visit with the part or come back with a part to suit the system. You could be paying $60 for the chap to have his lunch for all you know.

I would keep ringing and complaining..

KoolKid

I disagree with the keep ringing bit.
They have said they will call you back, leave it up to them to do that.
The longer they put it off the better it is for you.

altor

You wont get anywhere if you dont complain.

KoolKid

He did complain.....

booklover1975 wrote: »

Just an update:mad:

After 2 days of ringing the company and being promised someone would call me back, I eventually got to speak to someone today.

They said the reason the price on the day and the invoice differed was because the parts used were different than their normal parts.

I queried the 2.5 hours work that the engineer was supposed to have put in and i was told while he was gone looking for parts, he was working on the job. I said its a good job he didn't have to go to Cork for teh parts and come back to the house the next morning or I could have got a bill for 1.5K!!!

They eventually agreed to knock 60 off the bill but I'm still being charged for 1.5 hours work! They could not explain why it took the engineer so long to do a simple job.

I offered to pay the call out charge which included 30 mins and the parts but they said no.

I asked the office manager to call me back but surprise surprise they never did!

He has asked to speak to a manager. I'd let them do the chasing at this stage. He is no longer refusing to pay , he is awaiting someone to call him back..:D

altor

KoolKid wrote: »

He has asked to speak to a manager.

Yes, but he has not complained to the manager

Talking to office staff gets you no where.

If that does not work get on to there certification body.

Jnealon

Name and shame.
Probably against the rules but people need to know to avoid this company

booklover1975

Final update!

Rang back to speak to the manager (would probably still be waiting for a call but wanted to get it sorted and paid!), he knocked c€90 off the price - said he couldn't reduce it anymore as he would be doing it for less than cost price!

He said I was lucky the engineer was able to get the parts needed where I lived otherwise he would have had to come back to my house the next day and I would have been charged another 140 call out charge - surely this isn't right in this day and age is it??? Is this the norm?

He also said I was lucky to be only charged the 70 for the bit of the transformer he used - not all engineers would have taken apart the transformer and would have charged me the full price.

I complained about the whole customer service issue and no-one ringing back when promised etc and said it wasn't really the way to do business in this day and age - he agreed but said he hoped it wouldn't put me off using them again!!

I've clearly learnt a very expensive lesson!!!

altor

booklover1975 wrote: »

He said I was lucky the engineer was able to get the parts needed where I lived otherwise he would have had to come back to my house the next day and I would have been charged another 140 call out charge - surely this isn't right in this day and age is it??? Is this the norm?

No, it would not. If this is what they do I would steer clear of them in future.
If the part was not available on the day you should not of being charged. Most companys will say no fix no fee. After all, if he could not fix it what are you paying for. Then an alternative day would be arranged when the part is available. They must be making some money with there scam :eek:

booklover1975 wrote: »

He also said I was lucky to be only charged the 70 for the bit of the transformer he used - not all engineers would have taken apart the transformer and would have charged me the full price.

The bit of a transformer, what bit is he referring to
The whole transformer would need to be replaced when it goes faulty.

booklover1975 wrote: »

I complained about the whole customer service issue and no-one ringing back when promised etc and said it wasn't really the way to do business in this day and age - he agreed but said he hoped it wouldn't put me off using them again!!

I've clearly learnt a very expensive lesson!!!

I dont think you will be ringing them again.

Jnealon

not exactly a result.
Tell your friends and family to avoid this crowd.
bad press like this tends to spread quick

booklover1975

No not exactly a great result but I wasn't getting anywhere and at the end of the day would have no other choice but to pay.

I will make sure I never use this crowd again - and will tell all my friends and family the same!

@Altor, he said the transformer is part of a panel and keypad and he had to buy the whole thing, and I was lucky the engineer took the time to disconnect the transformer or I would have been charged for the whole thing.

KoolKid

And ,going by the way he prices no doubt he will get about €200 for the keypad & €300 for the panel.

altor

booklover1975 wrote: »

@Altor, he said the transformer is part of a panel and keypad and he had to buy the whole thing, and I was lucky the engineer took the time to disconnect the transformer or I would have been charged for the whole thing.

What system have you installed ?

You can get a transformer for most systems without having to buy the whole panel.

KoolKid

I rekon that was a waffle. If fact I would get the transformer checked. It could have come out of an old panel anyway.
If naming & shaming is your thing?
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=235

altor

I agree also. Name and shame