Klitschko Brothers appreciation thread

sxt

Two brothers who have dominated the sport for a decade , Phenomenal achievement . Two brothers who have unified all the belts, an achievement that will probably never happen again.


In Vladamir's last fight, he beats David Haye,"The saviour of Heavy weight boxing", in a non contest. Alot of the public bought into the hype, including the pundits in a form of mass hysteria.


Just looking at Vitali's record

42 fights, 39 knockout, 2 loses ( both fights he was winning, but had to be stopped due to a cut , and shoulder injury respectively).

If he was American or British, he would be one of richest sport persons on the planet.


They are both class acts, and great ambassadors for the sport of boxing. Two boxers who are coming to the end of their careers.


Vitali is 40 and has indicating that he will retire soon. He has indicated that he wants to fight Haye.

Vitali Vs David, that I would like to see!


Any Klitschko fans on here?

DB10

There is no reason for Vitali vs Haye to happen except to give Vitali a big pay day which I suppose at this stage he deserves.

But for an actual spectacle, and all the re hype about a "Haye comeback", it isn't top of my list for sure.

I also think he might as well retire after Haye because with all due respect there would be nothing left for him to achieve, there isnt a stand out contender that will give him a good run, unless he keeps fighting to a ridiculous age.

sxt

I don't think Haye would ever agree to fight against Vitali unless he had an retirement fund payment ,because he knows he would be knocked out.

Vitali would love this fight, because millions of people would pay for the fight, genuinely believing that Haye could win.

Daroxtar

sxt wrote: »

I don't think Haye would ever agree to fight against Vitali unless he had an retirement fund payment ,because he knows he would be knocked out.

Vitali would love this fight, because millions of people would pay for the fight, genuinely believing that Haye could win.

Millions would also buy it to see Haye KO'd

magma69

I appreciate them for what they are. Two nice guys who do what they have to do to win and take on top contenders for the most part. But they are just so damn boring to watch, I simply can't get excited about a Klitschko fight at all. I'd rather watch two journeymen featherweights scrapping any day of the week.:)

djhaxman

magma69 wrote: »

I appreciate them for what they are. Two nice guys who do what they have to do to win and take on top contenders for the most part. But they are just so damn boring to watch, I simply can't get excited about a Klitschko fight at all. I'd rather watch two journeymen featherweights scrapping any day of the week.:)

Totally agree....

cowzerp

There quality and how underrated they are annoys me, Vitali would do well in any generation and i have no doubt about that.

Dohnny Jepp

Agree with cowzerp 100%. Say what you want about the quality in the division, but never been knocked down not mind knocked out is mighty impressive!

FTA69

cowzerp wrote: »

There quality and how underrated they are annoys me, Vitali would do well in any generation and i have no doubt about that.

Definitely, either of the Klitschkos would be a serious test for any of the all time greats.

CorkMan

magma69 wrote: »

I appreciate them for what they are. Two nice guys who do what they have to do to win and take on top contenders for the most part. But they are just so damn boring to watch, I simply can't get excited about a Klitschko fight at all. I'd rather watch two journeymen featherweights scrapping any day of the week.:)

Heavyweight boxing should be about being entertaining and winning. Look at past greats, Joe Frazier, Mike Tyson, Foreman, Marciano, etc. They were all exciting to watch and are looked back at fondly to this day. Instead the Klitschko's don't intend to entertain crowds, they just want to win on points and keep on the outside.

I think in years to come this era of the heavyweights will be looked back at as a bad era, and the Klitschko's won't be classified as "all time greats." I also think both brothers not fighting for a unified title and "keeping it in the family" will not be looked upon fondly. Sure why is nobody mentioning putting them in the Top 10 of all time?

megadodge

CorkMan wrote: »

Heavyweight boxing should be about being entertaining and winning.

Sport is about winning. Only people who aren't used to winning think otherwise.

Instead the Klitschko's don't intend to entertain crowds, they just want to win on points and keep on the outside.

Vitali Klitchko 42 wins 39 KO's
Vladimir Klitchko 56 wins 49 KO's

Not too many points wins there!!

I also think both brothers not fighting for a unified title and "keeping it in the family" will not be looked upon fondly.

I've yet to hear anybody seriously complain about it. It's about the most perfect excuse not to fight someone.


I don't think they have very entertaining styles either but they sure are effective. I mean do people really expect 6'7 men to crouch low and swap hooks and uppercuts with men 6 or 7 inches shorter than them? Seriously????

walshb

I wouldn't pay to watch them, but I can't argue with any of Mega's points. Spot on.

Drumpot

Theres nothing wrong with appreciating the fact that they certainly come across as nice guys and that their records are impressive . . Its just history seldom rewards their kind of success . . Their fights are instantly forgettable and the best thing that can be written is that they have impressive records in a time when most people believe Heavyweight boxing was missing anybody good.

Its funny how most people rightly point out that Haye was never as good as he was being marketed but he was the nearest challenger. You can only beat whats put on front of you but most sports personalities are remembered as much for the rivalry they had with equal opponents as they had for their success's.

I have nothing against the brothers and do think they should fight . . Afterall isn that what real winners do megadodge ? Try to win everything ?

CorkMan

They do want to win on points, they are not offensive at all. It's just that they are fighting bums and that is why their opponents are knocked out. Look at Shannon Briggs against Vitali Klitschko, how Briggs survived I don't know, and that does not speak well for the rest of Vitali's opponents.

His biggest match was against an almost 38 year old, overweight Lewis who took the fight on 2 weeks notice, and he did not come out victorious. Danny Williams, Chris Arreola and Samuel Peters are his biggest wins after Lewis. When Lewis fought Vitali, Vitali had a 32-1 record, which did not consist of elite fighters from the late 90's/early 00's. ie Mike Tyson, Holyfield. Ross Purritty, Vaughn Bean just before Lewis. If he fought Tyson-Lewis-Holyfield from 98-99 or if an OK Bowe was around then I don't think he would have beaten them.

There is no competition around literally, and the Klitschko's are the only 2 good fighters around. Vitali is 40 and is still expected to clear out the division. So many fighters coming in fat is a reflection of the era IMO.

Spazdarn

I'd never go to watch them as they are pretty boring but you have to give them credit, they're always in unbelievable shape coming into a fight, they haven't been ducking anyone, they'll fight anyone if it's credible money wise and contest wise. It's not their fault there is no one of worth to challenge them, even as they approach their forties...

joepenguin

You cant fault them in any area bar their entertainment value. So as Walsh said, I wouldnt pay to see them but I believe that they would be legit contenders to any champion over the last 100 years. I dont give them much chance of winning against say Holmes or Ali, but worthy contenders none the less and if the alphabet soup was as diverse in previous eras as it is today then Im sure they would have picked up multiple belts in any era too.

Kess73

CorkMan wrote: »

They do want to win on points, they are not offensive at all. It's just that they are fighting bums and that is why their opponents are knocked out. Look at Shannon Briggs against Vitali Klitschko, how Briggs survived I don't know, and that does not speak well for the rest of Vitali's opponents.

His biggest match was against an almost 38 year old, overweight Lewis who took the fight on 2 weeks notice, and he did not come out victorious. Danny Williams, Chris Arreola and Samuel Peters are his biggest wins after Lewis. When Lewis fought Vitali, Vitali had a 32-1 record, which did not consist of elite fighters from the late 90's/early 00's. ie Mike Tyson, Holyfield. Ross Purritty, Vaughn Bean just before Lewis. If he fought Tyson-Lewis-Holyfield from 98-99 or if an OK Bowe was around then I don't think he would have beaten them.

There is no competition around literally, and the Klitschko's are the only 2 good fighters around. Vitali is 40 and is still expected to clear out the division. So many fighters coming in fat is a reflection of the era IMO.

Vitali took the fight on the same short notice.

Lewis was to fight Johnson in May with Vitali on the undercard.

Johnson pulled out with an injury so Lewis and Vitali agreed to fight almost a month after the date for the Johnson fight.

So Lewis should have been in fighting shape anyway for the Johnson fight. The condition Lewis was in was the condition he was in for the Johnson fight. So both Lewis and Vitali faced each other on short notice as both had been expecting to face different men some weeks earlier.


Funnily enough Vitali's next fight after Lewis was the man who pulled out of fighting Lewis, the same Kirk Johnson. He lasted two rounds against Vitali.

badabing106

I am looking forward to Klitschko documentory out this year. Looks pretty good. Trailer below

http://www.tribecafilm.com/filmguide/117705438.html

One name—two brothers. Vitali and Wladimir Klitschko have both been world champion heavyweight boxers, they both hold PhDs, and they both refuse to fight one another. Director Sebastian Dehnhardt's comprehensive portrait of the brothers is an insightful and personal look at the lives of two boys from the Ukraine who would become international sports stars.

Candid interviews with the duo (along with their mother and father) shed light on their childhood spent on Soviet military bases during the Cold War, their strictly regimented life, how they got into boxing, and how Chernobyl affected them. The brothers' candidness forms the heart of the film. As the story moves into their careers from their early fights, the Olympics, and their encounters with the likes of Don King and Mike Tyson, a clearer picture emerges of their similarities and differences in and out of the ring. With a plethora of archival material and interviews with boxing luminaries, Klitschko is a stylish, illustrative look at two brothers who are more than just champions in the boxing ring.

Drumpot

badabing106 wrote: »

I am looking forward to Klitschko documentory out this year. Looks pretty good. Trailer below

http://www.tribecafilm.com/filmguide/117705438.html

Should be good once they dont show any highlights of their fights ! !

cowzerp

Drumpot wrote: »

Should be good once they dont show any highlights of their fights ! !

So i take it you don'y like KO's!!

Drumpot

cowzerp wrote: »

So i take it you don'y like KO's!!

Not if I have to do hardcore penance of boredom before the fatal blow!

CorkMan

cowzerp wrote: »

So i take it you don'y like KO's!!

KO's? More like overweight men exhausted at round 7-8 and Klitschko putting him down. The cautiousness of Wladimir but yet how he has so many KO's is testament to his competition IMO, they all get exhausted before round 9 or 10.

cowzerp

CorkMan wrote: »

KO's? More like overweight men exhausted at round 7-8 and Klitschko putting him down. The cautiousness of Wladimir but yet how he has so many KO's is testament to his competition IMO, they all get exhausted before round 9 or 10.

BS.

gene_tunney

CorkMan wrote: »

KO's? More like overweight men exhausted at round 7-8 and Klitschko putting him down. The cautiousness of Wladimir but yet how he has so many KO's is testament to his competition IMO, they all get exhausted before round 9 or 10.

You don't know **** about boxing.

magma69

gene_tunney wrote: »

You don't know **** about boxing.

Is that you, Roger Mayweather?

gene_tunney

magma69 wrote: »

Is that you, Roger Mayweather?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STMeQlu8jA4

CorkMan

cowzerp wrote: »

BS.

But you do have to wonder, he is a cautious fighter so stays behind the jab, so how the hell did the get 49 KO's? Fair enough if he was a Frazier/Tyson fighter who goes straight at a fighter and slugs it out, taking 3 shots to land 1 hard one, but he is different to them.

Don't take what I posted very literally, but how does he get so many KO's for a cautious fighters?

gene_tunney

CorkMan wrote: »

But you do have to wonder, he is a cautious fighter so stays behind the jab, so how the hell did the get 49 KO's? Fair enough if he was a Frazier/Tyson fighter who goes straight at a fighter and slugs it out, taking 3 shots to land 1 hard one, but he is different to them.

Don't take what I posted very literally, but how does he get so many KO's for a cautious fighters?

Klitschko is cautious according to necessity. His earlier fights were against less threatening opponents and so his style was more gung-ho, leading to more knockouts. When this approach failed against more threatening fighters (eg Corrie Sanders), he adopted a more cautious approach which he is still honing to this day.

colly10

CorkMan wrote: »

But you do have to wonder, he is a cautious fighter so stays behind the jab, so how the hell did the get 49 KO's? Fair enough if he was a Frazier/Tyson fighter who goes straight at a fighter and slugs it out, taking 3 shots to land 1 hard one, but he is different to them.

Don't take what I posted very literally, but how does he get so many KO's for a cautious fighters?

He hits quite hard, Haye was caught in the 6th, when he went back to his chair Booth was telling him to go for it and Haye said he had no legs. Booth said he lost his legs when he was caught with the shot.
Even without having big punching power he's accurate, i've felt my legs getting heavy from guys with little power simply because they were landing too regularly.
Most of these guys aren't tiring out, they're being broken down

While the heavyweight division is weak at the moment, saying all these guys are just slobs and can't do 12 rounds is listening too much to the ****e haye was talking before the fight. He doesn't believe it himself and both Booth and Haye have credited Wlad since the the fight

CorkMan

I wonder if Vitali and Wlad sleep in the same bed.

Cos TBH they are both spitting in the face of boxing by not fighting each other. People talk about the HW division being poor, which it is, which gives a reason for them to fight more. At least with Pacquiao VS Mayweather there is a chance of it happening.

gene_tunney

If Wladimir and Vitali fought it would be disgusting. I would boycott it.

2 brothers brutalising each other for the delectation of the general public? Sounds like a WWF freakshow.

colly10

gene_tunney wrote: »

If Wladimir and Vitali fought it would be disgusting. I would boycott it.

2 brothers brutalising each other for the delectation of the general public? Sounds like a WWF freakshow.

Agreed, if your vitali you'd be trying to KO your brother, to take everything and leave wlad with nothing. And if you succeed when you retire people will be saying wlad was a nothing fighter and he will stay in your shadow.
And for what, money? Or maybe for the 5 people who don't think it would be sick?
If this fight ever happened, no way would I be watching it, I'd be just gutted for whoever lost. Sitting there watching who ever is dominating the fight break down the other one, slowly ruining them.

If you and your brother were heavyweight champs and one left the other with nothing after a fight most brothers would probably not look at each other in the same way after that

gene_tunney

Even if the K brothers were just journeymen it would still be a horrible spectacle. Two brothers battering each other for the sake of a win on their resume would show where their values lie. Forsaking your flesh and blood for a pay cheque - shameful.

coronaextra

Agreed ,These guys deserve more respect.

May not have the most entertaining style but dam its effective.
They make what they do look so easy.

They seem like nice lads too.

Drumpot

gene_tunney wrote: »

If Wladimir and Vitali fought it would be disgusting. I would boycott it.

2 brothers brutalising each other for the delectation of the general public? Sounds like a WWF freakshow.

Hold on, thats a complete copout . . If Boxing is a sport, why should its champions be treated anyway differant to other sports personalities ?

Two brothers coming up against each other in Golf or soccer would be fine because they are competing against each other in their chosen profession. You either agree with boxing or you dont, likewise the sport is brutal or its not, these guys fight for a living.

And it wouldnt be a WWF freakshow as it would be the two champions of the sport fighting to give boxing a true number 1 instead of sitting on the sidelines .

The whole concept of the best in any sports profession avoiding each other because they are good friends or related should be discouraged at all costs.

Definition of Champion: A person who has defeated or surpassed all rivals in a competition, esp. in sports .

Doesnt have a cavaet about family!

gene_tunney

I can see where you are coming from but personally I would put my family before money and glory.

Wlad said it himself about the Williams sisters in tennis. Hitting a ball over a net at each other is one thing, but punching each other in the face in front of millions of people, for the sake of money and belts, is another.

CorkMan

This is the first time I have ever seen a boxing fanbase not want to meet 2 title holders meet. Ever.

Drumpot

CorkMan wrote: »

This is the first time I have ever seen a boxing fanbase not want to meet 2 title holders meet. Ever.

Yeh, I dont get it . . If you approve of boxing as a sport, it shouldnt matter whether or not family are fighting each other or not . .

I understand the sentiments that are being said, but I dont think its a simple case of not having the fight simply to pander/please the crowd.

They are the two best fighters in their division, I dont see why boxing fans are in anyway incorrect to want to see them square off. .

cowzerp

There is no need for them to fight-They are the top 2 and why should 1 hurt the others ego/pride when they love each other and are basically team mates and each others biggest supporters, they spar all the time and they know who is the best that there is no doubt, its Vitali by the way!

They have everything to lose and nothing to gain, Why don't people go on about Khan fighting Manny as he is always saying they cant as there team mates etc..

walshb

Drumpot wrote: »

Hold on, thats a complete copout . . If Boxing is a sport, why should its champions be treated anyway differant to other sports personalities ?

Two brothers coming up against each other in Golf or soccer would be fine because they are competing against each other in their chosen profession. You either agree with boxing or you dont, likewise the sport is brutal or its not, these guys fight for a living.

And it wouldnt be a WWF freakshow as it would be the two champions of the sport fighting to give boxing a true number 1 instead of sitting on the sidelines .

The whole concept of the best in any sports profession avoiding each other because they are good friends or related should be discouraged at all costs.

Definition of Champion: A person who has defeated or surpassed all rivals in a competition, esp. in sports .

Doesnt have a cavaet about family!

Sport, and life, at times are not black and white.

There is a big difference between competing in golf, tennis or football
against ones sibling as opposed to boxing. By its very nature, to want to inflict physical pain, hurt, on a sibling, is odd, unnatural and uncaring.

It would be weird. AND, isn't sport also about giving it 100 percent?
Woukld the brothers be doing that? It is very possible that BOTH would not be giving 100 percent

Simlar to F1, when drivers at times obey team orders and drive under instructions. See, again, in sport, at times not all is as it should be. It's part of human nature.

Drumpot

walshb wrote: »

Sport, and life, at times are not black and white.

There is a big difference between competing in golf, tennis or football
against ones sibling as opposed to boxing. By its very nature, to want to inflict physical pain, hurt, on a sibling, is odd, unnatural and uncaring.

It would be weird. AND, isn't sport also about giving it 100 percent?
Woukld the brothers be doing that? It is very possible that BOTH would not be giving 100 percent

Simlar to F1, when drivers at times obey team orders and drive under instructions. See, again, in sport, at times not all is as it should be. It's part of human nature.

You can inflict psychological pain on a family member just as much as you can inflict physical pain and in many cases its far far worse . . With that, I dont think its any differant to family members squaring off in other codes as psychological scars can take much longer to heal in many cases.

I accept peoples views that they dont agree with it, I just think that you either agree with boxing as a sport or you dont . .

I can just Imagine soccer players refusing to slide tackle family members for fear of injuring them or in Gaelic games brothers not challenging each other for possesion (in GAA we hit hard!). . Maybe its because I have played amateur sports and never gave it any less against family/friends, but I think you are either committed to a sport or you are not . . Boxing shouldnt be any differant . .

walshb

I am well aware of phsiological pain from sport; but we as humans tend to lend more weight to physical pain. It's like anything. No problem beating my bro in snooker, golf, tennis, X box even, but if I got in ring with him, it would be very difficult for me to inflict physical pain, to hurt him, make him bleed etc. Why? That is just how we are as humans.

You mention GAA and soccer. Yes, those sports would have me a little less likekly to go hell for leather IF
it was the brother I was challenging. As we get closer to having to inflict possible physical pain, we
as humans will naturally pull back. Now, boxing is the ultimate physical pain sport. It's all
about physical hurt.

nacho libre

Drumpot wrote: »

You can inflict psychological pain on a family member just as much as you can inflict physical pain and in many cases its far far worse . . With that, I dont think its any differant to family members squaring off in other codes as psychological scars can take much longer to heal in many cases.

I accept peoples views that they dont agree with it, I just think that you either agree with boxing as a sport or you dont . .

I can just Imagine soccer players refusing to slide tackle family members for fear of injuring them or in Gaelic games brothers not challenging each other for possesion (in GAA we hit hard!). . Maybe its because I have played amateur sports and never gave it any less against family/friends, but I think you are either committed to a sport or you are not . . Boxing shouldnt be any differant . .

you do have a point about the hypocrisy involved, but still i wouldn't blame someone for not giving 100 per cent against a sibling or a close friend in a sport where the consequences could be far more devastating than in other sports. Can you honestly say you would give 100 per cent against your brother in a boxing ring, if you knew you were potentially capable of inflicting serious long term injury on him? You might say that could happen happen in other physical sports, but in Boxing it's far more likely to happen as the sole intention is to inflict pain and punishment on your opponent.

Fall_Guy

Drumpot wrote: »

You can inflict psychological pain on a family member just as much as you can inflict physical pain and in many cases its far far worse . . With that, I dont think its any differant to family members squaring off in other codes as psychological scars can take much longer to heal in many cases.

I accept peoples views that they dont agree with it, I just think that you either agree with boxing as a sport or you dont . .

I can just Imagine soccer players refusing to slide tackle family members for fear of injuring them or in Gaelic games brothers not challenging each other for possesion (in GAA we hit hard!). . Maybe its because I have played amateur sports and never gave it any less against family/friends, but I think you are either committed to a sport or you are not . . Boxing shouldnt be any differant . .

you can not in ANY way compare Boxing to sports like GAA and Soccer. To be honest if I was playing against my brother in a football match (wouldn't really happen except in kickabouts as we play for same club) I'd probably go in harder on him than I would other people!

But Boxing is a sport where time and time again we see people receiving punishment that will have long term effects on their health. Numerous people have died in the ring as a direct result of the physical trauma they incurred while fighting. If I was a world class boxer with the ability to do serious physical harm to another fighter, there is no way I could give 100% against my own brother. There are many great fighters that weren't even able to give 100% against total strangers after witnessing up close the damage that they could inflict on another fighter (Eubank being one that sticks out to me in recent years).

To say "boxing is a sport.....football/hurling/soccer is a sport.....therefore the same thinking applies in all matters relating to these sports" is just crazy.

walshb

Fall_Guy wrote: »

you can not in ANY way compare Boxing to sports like GAA and Soccer. To be honest if I was playing against my brother in a football match (wouldn't really happen except in kickabouts as we play for same club) I'd probably go in harder on him than I would other people!
.

I am struggling to see why you would go harder on him?

So, does the possibility of breaking his leg not come into your mind?

I think the closer the sport is to possible physical harm, the less likely siblings are to go 100 percent against each other.

CorkMan

There is an advantage to them fighting, the heavyweight division would be unified, and that is what I think most fans want to see. It is what the sport is about. They would make a lot of money too.

BTW i've no doubt Pacman would fight Khan if the money was there.

gene_tunney

You can't compare the Pac-Khan situation to the Wlad-Vitali situation; having the same trainer is not the same as being brothers.

I know I can't change people's opinions so I'll just say Wladimir vs Vitali would be a disgusting event and thank God they have brains and breeding enough to realise this. Don King offered them $100 million for this fight and they declined because they know there are some things money can't buy.

2 brothers fighting is a horrible spectacle when you see it anywhere - in a pub, at home, on the street, it doesn't matter. The fact that it takes place in a ring for money and in front of millions doesn't excuse it, but makes the spectacle all the more shameful.

That will be all from me on this topic gentlesirs.

Drumpot

gene_tunney wrote: »

You can't compare the Pac-Khan situation to the Wlad-Vitali situation; having the same trainer is not the same as being brothers.

I know I can't change people's opinions so I'll just say Wladimir vs Vitali would be a disgusting event and thank God they have brains and breeding enough to realise this. Don King offered them $100 million for this fight and they declined because they know there are some things money can't buy.

2 brothers fighting is a horrible spectacle when you see it anywhere - in a pub, at home, on the street, it doesn't matter. The fact that it takes place in a ring for money and in front of millions doesn't excuse it, but makes the spectacle all the more shameful.

That will be all from me on this topic gentlesirs.

2 brothers fighting for money is differant from 2 brothers fighting for the honor to be the best in the world . .

I am not the champion of anything, but usually what sets champions aside is their undieing apetite to be the best at all costs . . Thats where the sacrifices come in and while fighting a family member would be tough, it would be something that some champions would be willing to take to be the best and I dont have a problem with that ..

I understand the whole concept of physically beating your brother, but I dont think its right to condone beating the crap out of random strangers for money and then getting all moral and principled when a person comes up against a family member or a good friend (dont see the differance tbh as I dont believe somebody has to be a blood relative for them to be really close to you).

If you dont agree with violence, then you dont agree with boxing . .

I understand the points being made, but I think we will just agree to disagree . .

Dohnny Jepp

The people who think the brothers must fight must have no siblings.

I once accidentaly dislocated my brothers knee playing football and I've never felt so bad about anythin in my life. I can't imagine intentionally cause harm to him.

Boxing to me is fighting, it shares some charateristics with sports but i'm always tentative to classify it as a sport

Fall_Guy

walshb wrote: »

I am struggling to see why you would go harder on him?

So, does the possibility of breaking his leg not come into your mind?

I think the closer the sport is to possible physical harm, the less likely siblings are to go 100 percent against each other.

Ah to be fair, I'm talking about hopping a shoulder off the lad, not two-footing him in the knee! Was a bit of a throwaway comment, that doesnt really change my stance on why I would prefer not to see elite professional boxers put in a position where they would have to fight their siblings.

CorkMan

But both Klitschkos are good fighters, if they both fought none would be taking a very big beating seeing as there is not a huge gap in the ring.

(BTW, for some reason there is a page 6 in the page switching menu, but when I click page 6 it brings me back up to the top of page 5??)