Sales staff.....

johnos1984

Have they all become stupid recently??

I went to a couple of garages today as I'm still considering changing my car in the new year.

One older salesman walked past me 4 times before I followed him in to ask about a car. The place was dead, nobody around and he asked me could I come back tomorrow as he had to prepare the car for test driving........

Then I went on to the next garage to test drive another car and the young salesman gave me the impression I was disturbing him from playing with the latest app on his iphone which he was at pains to tell me about. He then went on to discuss the wrong car and started talking down the car I was actually interested in. I pretty much had to twist his arm for a test drive. He then offered a test drive in another car but I'd have to come back Thursday as one of the "top men" had driven it to the airport as he was going on holidays and wouldn't be back till then.

Finally I went to a third garage but got pissed off waiting around for somebody to appear to ask questions about the car.

I was expecting a bit of life out of everyone but none was forthcoming.

No offence but I reckon they can spot a time waster John.

johnos1984

RoverJames wrote: »

No offence but I reckon they can spot a time waster John.

None taken but they genuinely were showing no interest.

You have to talk to the customer first before you can tell don't you....

robtri

johnos1984 wrote: »

Have they all become stupid recently??

nothing recent about it

Tigger

i went into a garage in sligo about 10 years ago and asked a sales guy about a second hand car he had out side
he ignored me and motioned to a girl, she told me that the chap that does second hand cars was on a test drive and that the three salespeople standing around were new cars only. so i waited 5 minutes realised i had no interest in dealing with these idiots and left.
this was a wednesday afternoon and i had 5 grand in my pocket to buy something for work the following morning!

so its nothing new

johnos1984

I'm not trying to slag off salespeople as their are some very good ones out there it just seemed the ones I met today had little or no interest.

As RJ says possibly they reckoned I was a time waster but as I'm toying with the idea of a new car in Jan I need to have a poke around to see if I'm interested or not.

Zubeneschamali

johnos1984 wrote: »

As RJ says possibly they reckoned I was a time waster but as I'm toying with the idea of a new car in Jan

From their point of view, they were quite correct, you are a timewaster. You had no intention of buying any of the cars on sale under any circumstances.

bijapos

Not so much stupid as lazy or generally useless at sales. During the boom they didn't have to sell a lot, most people went in, pointed at a car, picked the spec and had it delivered a few weeks later. Because of the amount of business they were never forced to fight for customers and in many cases they were treated with something approaching contempt. I think for this reason a lot of them aren't much good. Estate agents are a bit similar, now that they are forced to sell a house you can sort out the good ones from the bad a lot easier.

I tend to go with most members of my extended family when they are buying a car and far too many salespeople haven't a clue about the car they are selling. Jesus, but it would only take an hour or two of basic reading to find out about the latest model but most of them seem beyond that. And then there are the lies, the downright lies that some of them tell to get a sale done.

Its also no coincidence that some of the dealerships that have gone by the wayside the past couple of years have only themselves to blame. My own best example was in 1997 my parents bought their first new car since the late 70's. Got a Polo, ordered airbags as an extra (they were standard in most European countries at the time but thats another story). So the car gets delivered, mother sees there are no airbags. "Ah no missus, they have airbags, just they dont bother writing that on the steering wheel anymore". I had to threaten the Fcuker with the local newspapers and VW in Germany before he gave a refund. SIMI did nothing. Needless to say it was typical of the dealership and they went bust a couple of years ago.

Having said that I'm in the market for a new or newish van, and some places go out of their way to help. It depends, but if the sales staff are no good it doesn't inspire much confidence in me for the standard of their workshop/servicing department. Best thing to do is keep shopping around, its your money, spend it in the place which deserves your custom.

bijapos

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

From their point of view, they were quite correct, you are a timewaster. You had no intention of buying any of the cars on sale under any circumstances.

As he said he is a possible future customer so you don't just tell them to get lost. Not when you are dealing with the amount of money and commission that a car sale generates.

Along with this the OP is hardly going to speak well of the garages concerned when he is with his mates or work colleagues and the garages reputation falls or rises on many such incidents.

johnos1984

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

From their point of view, they were quite correct, you are a timewaster. You had no intention of buying any of the cars on sale under any circumstances.

So you're tell me that by looking at someone out of an office and across a yard that they are a timewaster?

I didn't meet you today did I?

I don't agree I'm a timewaster. I'm investigating changing the car and to see if I want to or if it makes sense. Sorry but unlike others I don't just wake up in the morning and decide to spend 25K. I'd like to consider my options first and see whats out there.

Zubeneschamali

johnos1984 wrote: »

I don't agree I'm a timewaster.

It's not your time you're wasting, so your opinion doesn't count.

johnos1984

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

It's not your time you're wasting, so your opinion doesn't count.

Not making your targets this month? Ever wonder why?

So let me get this right using your logic:

Potential customer goes to look at a car,
Sales staff are uninterested, not knowledgable and not bothered before speaking to customer.
No improvement after speaking to customer

Your conclusion:

IT'S THE POTENTIAL CUSTOMERS FAULT

Did you go to the Michael O'Leary school of sales?

Zubeneschamali

johnos1984 wrote: »

Not making your targets this month? Ever wonder why?

I'm not in sales, and I've been treated like crap by sales staff while actually trying to buy a new car.

You weren't trying.

johnos1984

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

You weren't trying.

Sorry next time I'll take the cash with me and pull into the first garage and buy the first car I see :rolleyes:

I don't see what the problem is if I like to have everything checked out before hand and then buy a car. It tends to save the "I need to buy a car so tell me what to get" threads on here.

When I bought my Passat everything including my loan was ready to go as I had spent time finding out how much I wanted to spend and what i wanted to buy. Salespeople were amazed that i had everything arranged as they were sick of loosing sales because people hadn't arranged everything before agreeing on a car.

I ended up buying off my mechanic but the only reason the dealerships lost out was because they couldn't match the price.

So because I take my time and investigate properly I'm a timewaster?

That's one of the most ridiculous things I've seen written on boards in a while.

At least RJ in the opening reply has the experience of knowing me for a long time on various motoring forums and knows I take an age to buy a car.........before quickly growing tired of it

si_guru

Sellings car is not hard.. Tesco manage to get much more money off me with a lot less bother!

The prices for the trade-in and the new car are written down - as are the specs of the new car (which for some reason is optional to learn)

All they have to do is is fill in a form or two and throw a few polite sentences together - plus try to smile now and again.

IMHO.

ART6

Interesting post! A couple of years ago I was in the market for a new car after a write-off on black ice. Straight deal, cheque on the spot. I wanted a Ford, because I have customer loyalty! Local Ford dealer, no response to inquiries. A visit there, ignored. Finally bought a one year old Mondeao Titanium from Bolands in Waterford who, I have to say, went the extra mile to make a sale including offering their own scrappage scheme for two cars that I wanted rid of.

Sadly the earlier has been my experience of Irish companies in general. In my business I have in the last few years become accustomed to sourcing tools and equipment I needed from overseas (mainly from the UK). The response has always been quick and helpful, with prices that I couldn't match in Ireland.

I really do wonder when Irish companies will ever stop bleating about how hard done by they are and start behaving as if they actually welcome customers!

Stevie Dakota

What's all this 'timewaster' nonsense? The OP was never approached, at a minimum he should have been asked did he need some help, doesn't take long, and if not then no problem, have a look around. Most salespeople do this, there's no defending and poor service the OP received.

si_guru

...you just reminded me.

I filled in a "I want a test drive" for the i40 on Hyundai.ie - very swift email response telling me when the car would be at my local dealers in Tralee. Also a brochure arrived in the post 2 days later.

The local dealer never emailed me or phoned me or sent a letter to me. The date of the test drive was last weekend!

I guess I will get the new Optima instead then! (or a Superb )

Hyundai Ireland 10 out of 10. Local dealer 0 out of 10.

Zubeneschamali

Stevie Dakota wrote: »

What's all this 'timewaster' nonsense?

The OP is the very definition of a tyre-kicker. He had no notion of buying any of the cars he wanted to test drive. He's toying with the idea of changing in 6 months time!

professore

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

The OP is the very definition of a tyre-kicker. He had no notion of buying any of the cars he wanted to test drive. He's toying with the idea of changing in 6 months time!

How did the sales people know that by looking at him from a distance?

johnos1984

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

The OP is the very definition of a tyre-kicker. He had no notion of buying any of the cars he wanted to test drive. He's toying with the idea of changing in 6 months time!

Going on info posted on boards over the past 6 months the lead times on new cars can be long. Coupled with the fact I won't get the time to go looking when I'm back teaching at the end of August it makes perfect sense for me to go and look during the quiet time in the summer.

You don't know me any more than the sales staff so you're making a lot of assumptions

challengemaster

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

It's not your time you're wasting, so your opinion doesn't count.

The salesman isn't wasting his own money by turning away business. I don't see how it's wasting his time when he's sitting on his arse all day anyway? Fairly sure he's not there voluntarily

MacGyver

si_guru wrote: »

...you just reminded me.

I filled in a "I want a test drive" for the i40 on Hyundai.ie - very swift email response telling me when the car would be at my local dealers in Tralee. Also a brochure arrived in the post 2 days later.

The local dealer never emailed me or phoned me or sent a letter to me. The date of the test drive was last weekend!

I guess I will get the new Optima instead then! (or a Superb )

Hyundai Ireland 10 out of 10. Local dealer 0 out of 10.

I hope you mentioned this to Hyundai Ireland, They deserve to know how their dealers are acting.

Mc Love

bijapos wrote: »

It depends, but if the sales staff are no good it doesn't inspire much confidence in me for the standard of their workshop/servicing department. Best thing to do is keep shopping around, its your money, spend it in the place which deserves your custom.

Bang on the money there. I have always went to a Limerick Dealer to have a look at cars, and even for one of the brand new cars launched recently and was left standing like a spare prick, even when I was hovering near the new car, had to go ask at reception as there were no sales people at their desks and nobody in the yard either.
Thats maybe why I venture to a dealer just on the limerick/Cork border, very good at servicing (won an award), very helpful staff. And you are not left waiting in the car showroom, even had an informal chat about the particular model I was interested in with one of the salesmen.

TwoShedsJackson

johnos1984 wrote: »

Not making your targets this month? Ever wonder why?

So let me get this right using your logic:

Potential customer goes to look at a car,
Sales staff are uninterested, not knowledgable and not bothered before speaking to customer.
No improvement after speaking to customer

Your conclusion:

IT'S THE POTENTIAL CUSTOMERS FAULT

Did you go to the Michael O'Leary school of sales?

This is Michael O'Leary, the multi-zillionaire head of one of the most profitable airlines in the world, right?

Tragedy

TwoShedsJackson wrote: »

This is Michael O'Leary, the multi-zillionaire head of one of the most profitable airlines in the world, right?

What works in airlines doesn't necessarily work in other industries.

johnos1984

This thread has been very interesting thus far.

It seems to split into different camps:

1) A person should not enter a dealership unless they are going to buy the car (browsing and seeing what is out there is timewasting and therefore frowned upon)

2) Salespeople should be motivated and working for every sale and treat everyone who comes through the door as a sale at some stage now or in the future

3) Salespeople have the right not to do their job if they suspect the customer may not be buying a car there and then.

Jesus Christ no wonder the industry is ****ed if this thread is anything to go buy.

A dealership people is a shop under a different name.

You have various brands and various types of store with varying prices just like on the high street.

If you walked in to a shop browsing and trying to make your mind up and the floor staff ignored you or were rude to you would buy something there????

I'm genuinely astounded by the comments posted since I started it.

Tragedy

I browse an American gaming forum, recently one of the members was buying a new car and described how the system he used works, he put the exact model up+inputted his contact details and he had 5 dealers in his local area e-mail/call him with bids.

With that system, Michael O'Leary style business can succeed. When you're talking a luxury buying decision that isn't a necessity, offers thousands of choices and where human contact, aftersales and how nice and genuine staff are enters the choice - not so good

Where To

I bought a new van earlier this year and had to visit three dealerships before I was finally acknowledged in the fourth.

Apathy or a general disinterest is one thing, but these bozos (they are not salespeople) make a potential buyer feel like sh*t.

I sent a few choice emails to the companies in question.

Guess what?
No reply:rolleyes:

colm_mcm

A few of ye know I'm out of the car biz for a while, last year I had to find a commercial jeep for under 20k. I had the cheque in my pocket.

Went shopping in limerick

1st stop elm motors on ennis road
Pajero with a dodgy flywheel and clutch, wouldn't acknowledge that it was gone and wouldn't budge on the optimistic asking price. No stamps in service book despite sales chap saying it had full history. Asked if full history was with them, they said it wasn't but they serviced it when it came in.

2nd port of call
Motorzone dock road

Another pajero
Salesman said it was belonging to another garage and they had no idea how much it was despite being on the forecourt

3rd stop
Limerick motor centre

First salesman just started, didn't know details or prices on anything, waited 30 mins for a grown up. Handed a few sets of keys.
Patrol had a flat battery and was rough as a bears arse so didn't bother.
They had a promising mitsubishi shogun 4work import
Got it jump started and took for a spin. Drove alright but not as tight as the low miles on the clock. No service history of course.
Went back into showroom. Asked about history, told me mileage was ok. Refused to do a cartell check even though they have an account with them.


Nobody seemed bothered. I told all garages that money was available straight off, no trade in.

Tragedy

On the other hand, I went car-shopping with my sisters Fiancee who was looking for a bigger car due to baby.

Rathdown Motors first. Salesman was helpful, no bother getting the S80 out for a test drive straight away. When we got back, number crunched quickly with a minimum of fuss.
Went to Tallaght Ford, and despite it being closing up time and the yard being closed etc, the two salesmen immediately grabbed the Mondeo he was interested in out of the lockup, opened the gate and brought him for a test drive.

The next day decided to do Sandyford:
Faichney Ringwood were extremely nice and helpful, no bother getting a test drive and the lady we dealt with seemed genuine. Also got tea!
Foster were ok, didn't really make much of an impression either way tbh although I didn't like the salesmans patter about Passats(as I knew half it was BS).
Spirit ignored us completely.

A few weeks later:
Audi North Dublin were completely uninterested in us, Joe Duffy were ridiculously nice, and he put down a deposit on a 525i SE Touring.

Mostly good to be honest, even though it was all Saturday shopping and we must have come across as timewasters.

si_guru

colm_mcm wrote: »

Salesman said ... they had no idea how much it was despite being on the forecourt.

You reminded me of another..

Honda Motorcycle Dealer Tralee - I am in buying some 2 stroke and a chain for the chainsaw...

There were 3 Honda 90's in the main showroom... a blue 1991 one looks very tidy. I thought "If the price is reasonable I might treat myself to that and do a couple of Honda 50 runs.."

I asked the only guy there (I presume he is an emplyee - he took my money for the oil and chain) - "how much is blue honda".

Answer.... "I don't know, *you'll* have to ring the boss the in the other shop".

So I go cold on the whole idea, get in my car and go home.

Big Nasty

Tragedy wrote: »

Joe Duffy were ridiculously nice, and he put down a deposit on a 525i SE Touring.

This!

Most people are going to be more inclined to buy from someone they like / has treated them well. Before I got in to sales I worked in hospitality for years and a skill you learn in that trade is to read your customers and try and adapt to them as every person is different.

Helped me no end when I got in to sales.

johnos1984

Tragedy wrote: »

Rathdown Motors first. Salesman was helpful, no bother getting the S80 out for a test drive straight away. When we got back, number crunched quickly with a minimum of fuss.

Brother in law bought from them as the salesman was exceptionally good at his job and went out of his way when dealing with us

exador

Like all sales people in all types of business there are good ones and bad ones. I think that you will find that all the ones that have got positive comments are just customer focussed and always put the customer first...It may sound like a cliche but its true.. Doesn't matter if you are selling cars,computers or whatever it is the attention to detail to the customer that counts.

The little things do matter like being polite and ringing customers back when you say you will and following up on promises.. iF I was the manager and I knew that customers were ignored in showroom, and generally treated shabbily I wouldn't put up with it.

Thats what makes us all different..good ones and bad ones... I remember hearing a story about chief exec of some big airline speaking to all managers at meeting and asking them " what is our business, what do we do?" to which after akward silence someone said " we fly aeroplanes" ..to which he repled "wrong" ... " we fly people" and it it just happens that we fly them in aeroplanes..we deal with people and that is what we need to always remember..

Vertakill

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

The OP is the very definition of a tyre-kicker. He had no notion of buying any of the cars he wanted to test drive. He's toying with the idea of changing in 6 months time!

In fairness, if there were a bunch of guys standing around and there were no customers... would you not actually prefer to talk to someone than stand around with your hands in your pocket?
The salesman isn't losing out on anything by running through the specs of a car with the potential customer and he'll know by then if the customer is a tyre kicker and can weasel out of a test drive from here.
Can't tell any of that if you don't talk to them.

Also, the 'potential customer' may leave and the next time they, or a friend or family member, are interested in buying a car... they can refer back to; "Oh, remember so and so in that garage, he was very helpful and knew his stuff - maybe we should go back there and see what they have on offer.".

It's this, "if you ain't buying, we ain't trying" kind of attitude that has absolutely fuked the car industry up in this country and you're either just trolling or you're part of the problem.

No one wants to buy from some ar$ehole that is either a 'jack the lad' kind of sales guy that you know is feeding you horsesh!t and, equally, no one wants to buy from some knob that looks like you've just pis$ed in his cornflakes because you've inexcusably disturbed him inside the office when he's the one that should be out in the forecourt in the first place...

People are much more likely to part with their money when they are comfortable with the other person, for whatever reason. It's not rocket science and it's sales 101 ... yet a huge portion of sales guys don't seem to understand this.

exador

Vertakill wrote: »

In fairness, if there were a bunch of guys standing around and there were no customers... would you not actually prefer to talk to someone than stand around with your hands in your pocket?
The salesman isn't losing out on anything by running through the specs of a car with the potential customer and he'll know by then if the customer is a tyre kicker and can weasel out of a test drive from here.
Can't tell any of that if you don't talk to them.

Also, the 'potential customer' may leave and the next time they, or a friend or family member, are interested in buying a car... they can refer back to; "Oh, remember so and so in that garage, he was very helpful and knew his stuff - maybe we should go back there and see what they have on offer.".

It's this, "if you ain't buying, we ain't trying" kind of attitude that has absolutely fuked the car industry up in this country and you're either just trolling or you're part of the problem.

Couldn't agree more...

Big Nasty

I wouldn't blank anyone unless I was up to my neck in it with other customers and hadn't the time to help them.

In fact I wouldn't blank them at all - I would take 2 minutes out to explain to them that I will help them once I'm free or schedule a time for them to come back that suits them.

-Chris-

johnos1984 wrote: »

This thread has been very interesting thus far.

It seems to split into different camps:

1) A person should not enter a dealership unless they are going to buy the car (browsing and seeing what is out there is timewasting and therefore frowned upon)

2) Salespeople should be motivated and working for every sale and treat everyone who comes through the door as a sale at some stage now or in the future

3) Salespeople have the right not to do their job if they suspect the customer may not be buying a car there and then.

I nearly agree (and am presuming you're talking about nearly-new):

1) A person should not enter a dealership unless they are going to buy a car, or are at least are very interested in a specific car a dealer has in stock (browsing and seeing what is out there is timewasting and therefore frowned upon)

2) Salespeople should be motivated and working for every sale and treat everyone who comes through the door as a sale at some stage now or in the future

3) Salespeople have the right not to do their job if they suspect the customer may not be buying a car within a reasonable time frame


My €0.02

johnos1984

I think you either misunderstood the post you quoted or have misunderstood the thread completely.

A salesperson should never treat a customer badly or fail to do their job..........it's what they are paid to do

-Chris- wrote: »

I nearly agree (and am presuming you're talking about nearly-new):

1) A person should not enter a dealership unless they are going to buy a car, or are at least are very interested in a specific car a dealer has in stock (browsing and seeing what is out there is timewasting and therefore frowned upon)

2) Salespeople should be motivated and working for every sale and treat everyone who comes through the door as a sale at some stage now or in the future

3) Salespeople have the right not to do their job if they suspect the customer may not be buying a car within a reasonable time frame


My €0.02

-Chris-

johnos1984 wrote: »

I think you either misunderstood the post you quoted or have misunderstood the thread completely.

A salesperson should never treat a customer badly or fail to do their job..........it's what they are paid to do

I'm pretty sure I understand the thread.

My opinion is that both parties have a part to play in the transaction.

Salespeople should always be professional and polite in dealing with the public, and (I believe) the public have a responsibility to be respectful of the time and attention of a professional salesperson.

Being a professional salesperson includes politeness, courtesy, product knowledge, good sales technique etc., but it also includes a responsibility to the employer to make sure they use their time as productively as possible.
If this includes fobbing off a "someday" customer in order to tend to a "now" customer, or if it includes humouring a tyre-kicker during a non-busy time in order to practice their sales process, so be it.

Guy:Incognito

Tragedy wrote: »

I browse an American gaming forum, recently one of the members was buying a new car and described how the system he used works, he put the exact model up+inputted his contact details and he had 5 dealers in his local area e-mail/call him with bids.

They should just get rid of the fancy showrooms so and have one guy selling from a computer in his house. Wait for the enquiry to come in, hit reply with you best offer, wait for order, job done

-Chris-

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

They should just get rid of the fancy showrooms so and have one guy selling from a computer in his house. Wait for the enquiry to come in, hit reply with you best offer, wait for order, job done

Are you being tongue-in-cheek?

Vertakill

-Chris- wrote: »

Being a professional salesperson includes politeness, courtesy, product knowledge, good sales technique etc., but it also includes a responsibility to the employer to make sure they use their time as productively as possible.
If this includes fobbing off a "someday" customer in order to tend to a "now" customer, or if it includes humouring a tyre-kicker during a non-busy time in order to practice their sales process, so be it.

I think this goes without saying and it's the same for virtually every job and I doubt anyone will disagree with that.

However, the point the OP was making was that, before any dialogue had even been struck, the salesmen were already dismissing him as a tyre-kicker.

Most half decent salesmen will know very early on if the customer is serious or not but you can't make that judgment from through a window or from 20ft away.

-Chris-

Vertakill wrote: »

I think this goes without saying and it's the same for virtually every job and I doubt anyone will disagree with that.

However, the point the OP was making was that, before any dialogue had even been struck, the salesmen were already dismissing him as a tyre-kicker.

Most half decent salesmen will know very early on if the customer is serious or not but you can't make that judgment from through a window or from 20ft away.

Johnos was giving a summary of the "camps" people fell into, I'm just giving my opinion. It's more of a general point than specifically reflecting his experience in the first post.
The salespeople who ignored him were unprofessional and should be given a slap.

Guy:Incognito

-Chris- wrote: »

Are you being tongue-in-cheek?

Slightly.

The idea of buying a new car by emailing the dealers at all and getting offers back doesnt sit right with me.Goign and sitting in the cars and whatnot is a huge part of buyign a new car (even if it'd only be between 2 Marques if I was going new car shopping :-) )

Delancey

I have to say that 75% of car salesmen I have dealt with left me with the distinct impression they couldn't close a door much less a sale. Product knowledge = Nil.

Where To

Delancey wrote: »

I have to say that 75% of car salesmen I have dealt with left me with the distinct impression they couldn't close a door much less a sale. Product knowledge = Nil.

A definite +1 on this.

And the ability to recognise a 'customer' is worse than nil.

*Kol*

I think the sales people do a bit of profiling on you before you enter the showroom. They see you arrive and they make an assumption based on lots of variables (the car you arrive in, your age, who you are with etc etc). This is wrong but they seem to form an opinion based on this. If you arrive with a few kids and start looking at MPV's they will be over like a shot. If you arrive in something that they feel will be something they can move on quickly they will be over like a shot etc.

That aside they should have the basic courtesy to say hello and ask you if you need any help and try to flog you something.

Delancey

The sales people come across as very poorly trained , they don't seem to grasp customer service , they don't seem to recognise or respond to ' buying signals '.
I suspect that many of them are employed largely because they are friends or relatives of the dealer principal ?

opinion guy

I gotta say some of the attitudes of people on this thread are staggering.

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

The OP is the very definition of a tyre-kicker. He had no notion of buying any of the cars he wanted to test drive. He's toying with the idea of changing in 6 months time!

So how do you expect him to go from tyre-kicker to buyer if he gets ignored everywhere he goes. And when he does decide to buy where do you think he will buy - the place he got ignored ?

-Chris- wrote: »

I nearly agree (and am presuming you're talking about nearly-new):

1) A person should not enter a dealership unless they are going to buy a car, or are at least are very interested in a specific car a dealer has in stock (browsing and seeing what is out there is timewasting and therefore frowned upon)

Are you for real ? Frowned upon ?? I think the car salespeople of Ireland have gotten to used to not having to work for a sale. The job of the salesman is to turn the just looking folk into buyers. If you ignore the window shoppers and only talk to the sure thing buyers your not a salesman you're a secretary.

When I was looking last year got nothing but attitude from dealers. some of which I was serious about buying from - was ready to close deal, but on at least 4 or 5 occasions their attitudes turned me off any deal. They didn't know it but they turned me from a sure thing buyer into a 'timewaster' and 'tyrekicker'. Reality is the f*ckers were my timewasters. The level of disrespect and arrogant attitude car salespeople in Ireland have for their customers is staggering. Some people on this thread seem to share that attitude.