Letter from the Irish Red Cross

goat2

miju wrote: »

I suppose though the question of this thread is that given all thats gone on would you still give to collections now?

i would like to know the truth in laymans language, and i dont know the whole story

goat2

Originally Posted by miju
I suppose though the question of this thread is that given all thats gone on would you still give to collections now?
Originally Posted by miju
I suppose though the question of this thread is that given all thats gone on would you still give to collections now?
Originally Posted by miju
I suppose though the question of this thread is that given all thats gone on would you still give to collections now?
to answer whether i would give in future, i dont know the full story, was our money being used as we thought and hoped it would be, after all it is our hard earned money, so if anyone has a link to the real story i would love to have it, and then i will decide, but if i find out that not all the monies that were givin to the red cross, for the red cross only, were not fully accounted for, then i will have to rethink,

Fulton Crown

have long felt that there is something very smelly about the finances of big ticket charities.

I dont like the way the employ "chuggers"

I don't like the way they are less than straightforwoard about salaries and expenses.

I dont like the huge salary for the CEO of Rehab

I dont like the way they personalise their costly TV and radio advts.

I dont like the way the Exec of The Irish Red Cross do not resign after a major financial shortcoming is outed.

For these reasons and others I will not be giving any of my hard earned to these organisations.

gmoyne

From: Ronan in the Irish Red Cross

'As for the town hall meeting idea - I happen to think it is a very good one and I will pass the suggestion on'.


Ronan, the idea is already there, you don't need to pass on the suggestion, its part of what normal National Societies do. Read the policies and procedures for national Societies and the regulations agreed by the IFRC over the years.

So if this is a good idea how would you account for my expulsion from a meeting and then told that under Rule 32 that this was a correct action.

Of course Rule 32 which was quoted says no such thing.

Then when I ask for a copy of the written direction given from the Secretary General, Area Secretary and Branch Secretary I am told the Red Cross does not give members information !

The reason I was asked to leave aRed Cross meeting in February 2011 is that some Red Cross members are not comfortable with someone who will face them directly with the truth, as they have nowhere to hide.

When I did eventually get the opportunity to speak in May 2009, not a single word was uttered in defence of the Red Cross and not a single word has been uttered in defence of the allegations made by myself since.

So when you have the opportunity lets all get into a room and we shall see if your truth adds up ! Why will the Red Cross not talk to Noel Wardick, its because they know morally he is 110% right. Why have certain members of the current Executive so intent for the last 20 years to try to shut me up.

The records would show in Red Cross if they had not been destroyed purposely that several attempts were taken to threaten me with Court Action and Expusion, nothing worked. Lucky I kept a copy of all the documents! There are lies and even more lies, and the truth keeps crawling from under the closed doors.

So when the Red Cross stops telling porkies we might all move on to build a decent Red Cross which promotes Humanity for ALL !

Oscail

Dear Ronan,

With the greatest respect to you but you are becoming a farcical character along the lines of Sadam Hussein's infamous spokesperson who became known as Comical Ali. For those who dont recall Comical Ali stood in Baghdad stating that the city would never fall to American forces when suddenly American tanks appeared up the street behind him and the whole thing was caught on camera!!

Ronan, your naivity is truly something to behold. You are risking your professional career by becoming the mouthpiece for a disreputable and disgraced regime at the Irish Red Cross. You must be one of the most gullible individuals I have ever come across. I genuinely feel sorry for you because becoming an apologist for the Irish Red Cross will cause you no end of trauma and pain in time. Rest assured the Irish Red Cross has committed many many wrongs and most sensible thinking people now accept this. The recent calls for police and fraud squad intervention are worth serious consideration.

Everytime you issue your disingenuous and false statements you do untold damage to your personal reputation. You are becoming a highly discredited individual as a result. Initially you were ankle deep in deceit, now you are knee deep. You can still get out but you are sinking fast. Listen to this advice. You did not cause the problems but you are rapidly becoming part of the problem. You have time but not much.

The idea of public meetings is excellent but has been suggested many times in the past. The Irish Red Cross has always refused. As the Blog has reported the Society has failed to hold a national assembly for all its members since 2005. The scheduled ones in 2007 and 2009 were cancelled as reported by the blog. This is a failure of organisational democracy. Please stop your patronising nonsense Ronan that 'the public hearings are a good idea and I will pass on your suggestion'. This is just more of your spin trying to appear genuine and cooperative. If Irish Red Cross is terrified to hold an open meeting of all its members its not going to hold a meeting of the general public. The reason is because the likes of the Vice Chariman and Treasurer and most of the Board will be forced to step down by the general membership and/or the public at any such meeting. The Irish Red Cross has turned into a sorry pathetic dictatorship and you have become their mouthpiece. You are losing all individual credibility.

By the way Google Adwords are provided by Google free of charge for CHARITABLE purposes and should therefore not be used to lie, deceive and spin and to attempt to shut down the excellent and informative blog written by Noel Wardick, the senior manager who Irish Red Cross fired for telling the truth.

Read the Blog for the truth. Its most recent article dismantles the Q&A spin drafted by Irish Red Cross which insults the intelligence of every single person who ever gave money to the Irish Red Cross and is deeply insulting to current and former staff

http://governancereformatirishredcross.blogspot.com

And as for trying to blame the link with government for the Irish Red Cross dysfunction once again Ronan you disgrace yourself. Some of the most determined and honest reform minded board memebrs of Irish Red Cross over the years have been government nominees. They have since the late 1980's been a constant thorn in the side of the Vice Chairman and his cohorts. The Irish Red Cross has always made the lives of these people hell and many of them resigned or just left demoralised, appalled, shocked and disillusioned. Breaking the link with government follows the same strategy that saw Noel Wardick and others fired. Remove all reform minded people, remove anyone who questions the leadership and especially remove any person who tells the truth.

Ronan, you have backed the wrong horse. The Irish Red Cross is an exact mirror image of the Catholic Church...once upon a time you could do what you want and get away with it. Now you cant! That day is gone. You might remain in power but you face oblivion and irrelevance. As someone said to me some time back Irish Red Cross is a by-word for dysfunction, misgovernance, cronyism and abuse of power. Until you remove the individuals responsible especially the Vice Chairman and Treasurer nothing will change. But Ronan you and others are too scared to call for their removal and as a result you are left doing demeaning tasks like preparing disgusting Q&As that few if any believe.

So Comical Ronan, wake up. Dont sacrafice your career defending people who couldnt care one bit about you and who will dump you as soon as you are no longer useful to them. Your five predecessors were very honorable people. They would never have allowed themselves become the mouthpiece for such dishonesty. Sad that you apparently have.

gmoyne

goat2 wrote: »

i would like to know the truth in laymans language, and i dont know the whole story

In lay mans terms the Irish Red Cross of which I am a life member has for over 25 years that I know of has been involved in the long term retention of monies which were destined for overseas Appeals.

When as a member of the National Overseas Committee I and others brought the matter of minute rigging and retaining of monies for several years to the attention of the Executive Committee, our committee was immediately disbanded. They do not appreciate anyone rocking the boat. When the National Financial Director Mr L. White challenged the Executive he was imediately sacked as was Noel Wardick the author of the Blog.

The Irish Red Cross has held onto money that I know of from several Appeals and it is only when the press gets involved as with Armenia and Somalia do they act and transfer the money out of the Country to the Appeal.

I as a member would not give the National Society a single cent. But I would most certainly give the money to the International Red Cross or Federation as I have done on many occasions rather than let the money be used improperly,

goat2

gmoyne --- thank you for that, you are lucky you kept copies of all paperwork that passed through your hands,
i have a question, the monies that was not sent to foreign aid, where was that spent,
as you can see that i am interested in where charity monies go, as i have also collected for charities, and have wondered if the money i collected went to the charity, is it possible that some of it could be going elsewhere. and when i think back, i must have collected loads, as i used to go out a few times of year for different organisatins, like, aware, the heart foundation, cancer research, things that effect most families including my own over the yrs,

gmoyne

goat2 wrote: »

gmoyne --- thank you for that, you are lucky you kept copies of all paperwork that passed through your hands,
i have a question, the monies that was not sent to foreign aid, where was that spent,
as you can see that i am interested in where charity monies go, as i have also collected for charities, and have wondered if the money i collected went to the charity, is it possible that some of it could be going elsewhere. and when i think back, i must have collected loads, as i used to go out a few times of year for different organisatins, like, aware, the heart foundation, cancer research, things that effect most families including my own over the yrs,

That is an excellent question and I have spent many years trying to get an answer. We can rely on one thing and that is during the Haiti Appeal there appears to have been an excess of approx. 600k put into the General fund of the Irish Red Cross. One can only ponder as to the level of funds that went astray this way during other appeals over the years. I do know that during my tenure monies were spent on project designs and such things as expensive consultants and such like that never saw the light of day. monies were also retained and the interest also appears to have been retained.

As with the Tsunami Appeal of which the Vice Chairman of the Society was involved, it appears they have so much money in Tipperary that it was a case of they forgot 162k was sitting there for three years. I believe it was found in a secret audit. Of course the recovery of this money was not voluntary!

The Audited accounts don't give a concise breakdown, but luckily some diligent people I know, kept accurate records over the years so come the time when there is an official investigation there might be more questions than answers for some individuals. As with poker you don't play all you cards!

The Red Cross is a brilliant organisation and it has some wonderful people involved who in it for their own correct reasons, however the management forget that they are not the Red Cross they are only as good as the members they represent !

goat2

gmoyne wrote: »

That is an excellent question and I have spent many years trying to get an answer. We can rely on one thing and that is during the Haiti Appeal there appears to have been an excess of approx. 600k put into the General fund of the Irish Red Cross. One can only ponder as to the level of funds that went astray this way during other appeals over the years. I do know that during my tenure monies were spent on project designs and such things as expensive consultants and such like that never saw the light of day. monies were also retained and the interest also appears to have been retained.

As with the Tsunami Appeal of which the Vice Chairman of the Society was involved, it appears they have so much money in Tipperary that it was a case of they forgot 162k was sitting there for three years. I believe it was found in a secret audit. Of course the recovery of this money was not voluntary!

The Audited accounts don't give a concise breakdown, but luckily some diligent people I know, kept accurate records over the years so come the time when there is an official investigation there might be more questions than answers for some individuals. As with poker you don't play all you cards!

The Red Cross is a brilliant organisation and it has some wonderful people involved who in it for their own correct reasons, however the management forget that they are not the Red Cross they are only as good as the members they represent !

by the recovery of the money not being voluntary, did someone think it was theirs to keep,
tipperary being your average county, how did it stay hidden for three yrs, as we have to hand up our tax returns every year, does that mean the tax man was not made aware of this also

gmoyne

goat2 wrote: »

by the recovery of the money not being voluntary, did someone think it was theirs to keep,
tipperary being your average county, how did it stay hidden for three yrs, as we have to hand up our tax returns every year, does that mean the tax man was not made aware of this also

there are no tax implications for Charities as they are exempt from tax. however the explanations given really beggar belief. They are detailed on the blog:
http://governancereformatirishredcross.blogspot.com/

This however, is not a unique event for the Irish Red Cross. When why was on the overseas Committee we discovered monies most people couldn't even remember when the appeal was held. They came up with all sorts of excuses then also. That was before they decided we were asking too many questions and out the door we went or should I say pushed! The minute rigging was the best laugh. They were really innovative, that is until I recorded a few meetings and that persuaded the bods that I had to go !

gmoyne

You actually could not make this all up if you tried ! Its seriously twisted.

But sure everything is grand now as that was in the past. You are just weird if you keep bringing up the past even if the same people who were the problem then, are still the problem now! Funny how life is in this Country ! It actually doesn't matter how bad you are, all you have to do is call the excuse Dept. and way you go till the next time.

starfish30

'rested in a special account' - seriously... is it father Ted we are dealing with here??

Zorbas

starfish30 wrote: »

'rested in a special account' - seriously... is it father Ted we are dealing with here??

Every week that passes adds to the incredulity that Irish Red Cross are still operating and that the Government or the International Red Federation of the Red Cross or the ICRC have not acted.
You would think that the Government would follow up on the questions around the credibility of one of its major aid channels or follow-up on the whistle-blower case.
You would expect that the International Red Cross (IFRC & ICRC) would suspend membership of IRC until there is evidence of minimum compliance with the statutes and regulations agreed by the membership over the years.
Had always understood that we in Ireland were intolerant of corruption but recent events support the opposite.

gmoyne

Zorbas wrote: »

Every week that passes adds to the incredulity that Irish Red Cross are still operating and that the Government or the International Red Federation of the Red Cross or the ICRC have not acted.
You would think that the Government would follow up on the questions around the credibility of one of its major aid channels or follow-up on the whistle-blower case.
You would expect that the International Red Cross (IFRC & ICRC) would suspend membership of IRC until there is evidence of minimum compliance with the statutes and regulations agreed by the membership over the years.
Had always understood that we in Ireland were intolerant of corruption but recent events support the opposite.

There are regulations which are mandatory for the recognition of National Societies and the International Federation of the Red Cross can sanction National Societies for failure to comply with this legislation. The Irish Red Cross has not complied with many aspects for more years than one can remember. One such rule is the compliance with Resolutions of the International Conference and of the Council of Delegates. Few if any Central Council members know any thing about this. The Irish Red Cross management just ignore everything to do with compliance. The Federation are wimps and could not really care about this third world Country on the peripherals of Europe. Well, that has changed somewhat since the blog began to raise awareness of the realities ! Geneva is just hoping it all will go away !

When the Red Cross found that they could not sue Google in the USA things started to happen, but they still wish it would all go away especially as Google is a big donor ! Maybe the eighty odd thousand people reading the Blog might be making the difference we will see.

goat2

gmoyne wrote: »

there are no tax implications for Charities as they are exempt from tax. however the explanations given really beggar belief. They are detailed on the blog:
http://governancereformatirishredcross.blogspot.com/

This however, is not a unique event for the Irish Red Cross. When why was on the overseas Committee we discovered monies most people couldn't even remember when the appeal was held. They came up with all sorts of excuses then also. That was before they decided we were asking too many questions and out the door we went or should I say pushed! The minute rigging was the best laugh. They were really innovative, that is until I recorded a few meetings and that persuaded the bods that I had to go !

monies that were given for the asian disaster, were kept in a bank account in this country, what good was it to the people who it was given for and when they most needed in a bank here,
who does this organisation answer to, are there rules and regulations they must follow, because the self employed in this country have to account for every penny they earn and spend, i would expect the charities to do the same, for me personally who collected for charities, and have been in habit of putting change in collection boxes, i am very disappointed, i thought the money went to the needy asap,

gmoyne

goat2 wrote: »

monies that were given for the asian disaster, were kept in a bank account in this country, what good was it to the people who it was given for and when they most needed in a bank here,
who does this organisation answer to, are there rules and regulations they must follow, because the self employed in this country have to account for every penny they earn and spend, i would expect the charities to do the same, for me personally who collected for charities, and have been in habit of putting change in collection boxes, i am very disappointed, i thought the money went to the needy asap,

All I can say is the behaviour of the Red Cross in Ireland is in no way reflective of the good work that is carried out by the Red Cross in war torn countries.

There has been a systemic governance meltdown within the Irish Red Cross which involves a small number of people, who have been involved in the hiding of money, the retention of money, and the harassment of members and staff. They control by threat and innuendo its the perfect example of nepotism . They regard themselves as the untouchables who are accountable to no one not even the minister of Defense who funds them. Read all about it on the Blog that is the real truth of what is going on now !http://governancereformatirishredcross.blogspot.com/

Della Digby

The Government will be back from Holidays next month, will Alan Shatter take all the bull he gets from the management of Red Cross as gospel or will he take the correct approach and demand an immediate investigation to the spending of state money by the Red Cross. If we hear one more time the same rhetoric 'The Government cannot cannot act against Mr Lawlor and co.' we will scream. Its the nations money why are we not allowed to know how its being misused?

I don't see too many fancy 4 x 4 being shipped out to the people of Somalia ...... What do we need them here for? Get them all on bikes ! If we need ambulances use the HSE and pay them !

goat2

Della Digby wrote: »

The Government will be back from Holidays next month, will Alan Shatter take all the bull he gets from the management of Red Cross as gospel or will he take the correct approach and demand an immediate investigation to the spending of state money by the Red Cross. If we hear one more time the same rhetoric 'The Government cannot cannot act against Mr Lawlor and co.' we will scream. Its the nations money why are we not allowed to know how its being misused?

I don't see too many fancy 4 x 4 being shipped out to the people of Somalia ...... What do we need them here for? Get them all on bikes ! If we need ambulances use the HSE and pay them !

are there people heading the red cross who happen to be related to people in government, and if so who are they, and who in government are they related to, or are they friends,
Also how is it that now you do not see hse ambulances anymore at sprots events, while you will see the red cross, why,

anymore

goat2 wrote: »

are there people heading the red cross who happen to be related to people in government, and if so who are they, and who in government are they related to, or are they friends,
Also how is it that now you do not see hse ambulances anymore at sprots events, while you will see the red cross, why,

It would be pretty wasteful to have HSE ambulances waiting around at sports events.

miju

goat2 wrote: »

Also how is it that now you do not see hse ambulances anymore at sprots events, while you will see the red cross, why,

Why bother having a HSE vehicle at an event when there will already be one of the voluntary orgs more than likely present?

goat2

anymore wrote: »

It would be pretty wasteful to have HSE ambulances waiting around at sports events.

i did not see it that way, does the red cross charge a fee to have their ambulances at the events.

NeitherJohn

goat2 wrote: »

i did not see it that way, does the red cross charge a fee to have their ambulances at the events.

Not allowed charge for services AFAIK. I think a donation is asked for.

Oscail

I am afraid Irish Red Cross does charge for first aid services at many events. Irish Red Cross has a commercial arm and its function is to make a profit.

The Irish Red Cross is obsessed with making money. Its why it redirected €600,000 of money raised from the public for Haiti to its domestic activities to cover local expenses such as legal fees and salaries for its over paid general secretary and consultants. There has been calls for the Garda Fraud Squad to investigate the Irish Red Cross. Hopefully some day this will happen.

goat2

Oscail wrote: »

I am afraid Irish Red Cross does charge for first aid services at many events. Irish Red Cross has a commercial arm and its function is to make a profit.

The Irish Red Cross is obsessed with making money. Its why it redirected €600,000 of money raised from the public for Haiti to its domestic activities to cover local expenses such as legal fees and salaries for its over paid general secretary and consultants. There has been calls for the Garda Fraud Squad to investigate the Irish Red Cross. Hopefully some day this will happen.

when i have been on the sides of streets collecting for aware, heart foundation, and some others, i have been asked many times by the people who would be giving their euro, does all of this money go to these very organisations, or are there people paid out of these monies, i collected giving my time free,

goat2

at this moment the red cross is doing great work in syria, it is great to see this, as the reporters last night said, that the red cross help bring about their freedom from a hotel they had been holed up in for some while. this is great news

Oscail

Red Cross globally does great work Goat2 but Irish Red Cross is a big embarrasment to the rest of the Red Cross movement around the world.

Could certain Irish Red Cross board members face criminal prosecution under the new Criminal Justice Act 2011?
See
http://governancereformatirishredcross.blogspot.com

circa1990

Della Digby wrote: »

The Irish Red Cross have not cleaned up their act if anything it has got worse. They recently put forward new rule changes which allow all Board members to sit on the committee for life, they did make changes to the management committee that they could only sit for 6 years, but this is only valid if someone runs against a person. So technically a person could sit for life on this committee also.
During the Haiti Appeal they put 600k into their General fund saying that the donors actually meant it to be used in Ireland.

If you do want to give to the Red Cross make sure the cheque is made out to the International Federation of the Red Cross, then they won't be able to either hide or not use it.

Excuse me for only seeing this thread now. I just read this post and it infuriated me, as I am an active unit member of the IRC, now I do not agree with anything that the society has done concerning misappropriation of funds and I'm all for ousting those who let this happen but what you're saying here, is absolutely untrue. No board member can sit on the board of directors for life. According to our new regulations, they can sit for a maximum of 2 3 year tems ie a maximum of 6 years. Now I don't know about you but when I was at school, 6 years didn't constitute as a lifetime.

circa1990

goat2 wrote: »

i did not see it that way, does the red cross charge a fee to have their ambulances at the events.

yes there is a fee, but its mimimal. If you are running an event and you need to hire an ambulance crew, to hire the HSE or a private ambulance company will cost in excess of, i think, €1000, the red cross will charge a maximum of €200, and that's an absolute maximum. This money covers the maintenence of the ambulance and covers the cost of equipment. The money that we take in on dutys is used to fund the organisation in the local area where the ambulance is based. No member of the IRC who do duty get paid and we're all volunteers. The money taken in on duties does not go any where near Head Office and it actually goes towards building the organisation and training the ordinary members on a local level.

Zorbas

circa1990 wrote: »

Excuse me for only seeing this thread now. I just read this post and it infuriated me, as I am an active unit member of the IRC, now I do not agree with anything that the society has done concerning misappropriation of funds and I'm all for ousting those who let this happen but what you're saying here, is absolutely untrue. No board member can sit on the board of directors for life. According to our new regulations, they can sit for a maximum of 2 3 year tems ie a maximum of 6 years. Now I don't know about you but when I was at school, 6 years didn't constitute as a lifetime.

Some people serving on the IRC appear to be there for close to a lifetime and certainly more than 6 years so what you say is a bit misleading dont you think?
Am sure many would wish to hear from you on what you as a Unit member is doing or has done to try to unseat some of those responsible for maladministration if not corruption. Appeal money received at Unit level should end up in Merrion Sq so what accountability do you see or demand to make sure that it is not diverted away from those in need?

running nowhere

The Irish Red Cross has been criticised by numerous reports whether internal or external. The International Federation of the Red Cross and Red Crescent Societies has continually criticised the Irish Red Cross in this regards. The appalling corporate governance at the Irish Red Cross has been the subject of Dail Eireann debates. The Minister for Justice and Defence specifically wrote to the Irish Red Cross noting his disapproval of certain board members remaining continuously on the Executive Committee in excess of 20 years. The Irish Red Cross chose to completely ignore this criticism from one of its major donors (and also the State Authority which is responsible for the very existence of the Irish Red Cross) and within weeks reappoint that very same person back on the board.
It is the responsibility of all Volunteers and Members to be fully informed of the corporate governance procedures and indeed the constitution of the Irish Red Cross. A proposed amended constitution was recently drafted by the Irish Red Cross. If you have not seen this amended constitution you must ask why not?
The Executive Committee and their glib statements about governance reform cannot be believed. They have deceived the Members and general public for too long. The very existence of the infamous Tipperary bank account was only ever discovered after a secret internal audit, following this report its existence was then only publicly admitted months later. In the meantime certain concerned Staff had fought tooth and nail to have those responsible for this despicable act held responsible. ABSOLUTELY NO ONE HAS BEEN HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR THESE AND MANY MANY MANY OTHER FAILINGS. Those staff that fought to address these issues were either harassed into silence or fired.
At this stage it is probably sadly irrelevant how long a board member can or cannot serve on the board. The simple truth is that every single member of the current board who has not fulfilled their fiduciary duties must be held accountable for their failings. The fiduciary duties of any board include ensuring absolute transparency and the highest standards of corporate governance. The evidence for these failings is overwhelming. It is inevitable these failings will be addressed and those responsible held accountable. It is taking a long time, but it will come and when it does the Irish Red Cross will prosper again.
On a separate matter: I have noted recently that this discussion on the failings of the Irish Red Cross has included references to the International operations of the Red Cross (Libya etc) and domestic operations (ambulance services etc.). It is very important to note that those fighting for transparency and accountability in the Irish Red Cross are absolute true believers in the Red Cross Movement. The magnificent work of the International Red Cross (IFRC and ICRC) or the services Members and Volunteers provide in Ireland is in no way under question. It is the Irish Red Cross as a corporate entity which is failing in its duties. That very entity seems to have forgotten the fundamental Principles of the Red Cross Movement and that those Principles define and dictate its very existence.