Wrong size of shotgun cartridge?

Arthur.

Sorry for the basic question, just shotguns really arent my forte at all. More of a rifle man.

Bought a box of lyalvale cartridges (AAA) for charlie. Only I when I got home I see they are for 3inch chambers. I have a 2 3/4 chamber.... Will it do any harm to gun (or me) if I fire these? Or is it just a case of 3 inch chamber is optimal?

palo

Hello Arthur.

As regards AAA 3" in a 2 3/4'' chamber. NO WAY under no circumstances if you value your life an eye or a hand at low water the damage to your gun would mean nothing in terms of personal injury in the event of your gun bursting. Most 3'' shells are loaded with 52 gr which is ok if your gun is proofed for 1200 kgs. Most 2 3/4 shells are are for guns of 900kgs except the light Magnum loads.

Grizzly 45

They WILL harm you and the gun...If you could make them fit in there!:D
3ins wont fit 2 3/4 chambers.
Back to the shop with you and get a 2 3/4 000 load for fox.Much better INMHO.

kildare.17hmr

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

They WILL harm you and the gun...If you could make them fit in there!:D
3ins wont fit 2 3/4 chambers.
Back to the shop with you and get a 2 3/4 000 load for fox.Much better INMHO.

Iv asked for these in a few places to be told i dont stock them and they are not good for your gun?? They offer me 42g 4 heavy loads or 38g 3. where can i get 000????????? what range are they good to on a fox griz??

Tackleberrywho

Arthur. wrote: »

Sorry for the basic question, just shotguns really arent my forte at all. More of a rifle man.

Bought a box of lyalvale cartridges (AAA) for charlie. Only I when I got home I see they are for 3inch chambers. I have a 2 3/4 chamber.... Will it do any harm to gun (or me) if I fire these? Or is it just a case of 3 inch chamber is optimal?

your gun must be very old, most shot guns take 2&3/4" -3"??
The older side by sides did not.

It wasn't me!

Most are 2 3/4". Some are 3". Older guns had shorter chambers alright, lots of 2 1/2".

Tackleberrywho

Arthur. wrote: »

Sorry for the basic question, just shotguns really arent my forte at all. More of a rifle man.

Bought a box of lyalvale cartridges (AAA) for charlie. Only I when I got home I see they are for 3inch chambers. I have a 2 3/4 chamber.... Will it do any harm to gun (or me) if I fire these? Or is it just a case of 3 inch chamber is optimal?

http://www.eleyhawkltd.com/gamecarts-alphamax.html

http://www.remington.com/products/ammunition/shotshells/buckshot/express-buckshot.aspx


you'll just have to specify your gun has 2-3/4 inch chambers to RFD

Are you 100% your gun has written on chamber 2-3/4" only??

Most guns take 2 offerings like IWM's 2-1/2 2-3/4" Aya

kildare.17hmr

is it not the case that your gun will take any cartrige(of the same gauge) up to its max chamber size?????

It wasn't me!

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

is it not the case that your gun will take any cartrige(of the same gauge) up to its max chamber size?????

That's it alright.

kildare.17hmr

It wasn't me! wrote: »

That's it alright.

Thought as much.

Tackleberrywho

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

is it not the case that your gun will take any cartrige(of the same gauge) up to its max chamber size?????

he never mentioned the lower limit, that's why I ask.
OP might be reading chamber wrong

kildare.17hmr

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

he never mentioned the lower limit, that's why I ask.
OP might be reading chamber wrong

True but you said \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

Most guns take 2 offerings like IWM's 2-1/2 2-3/4" Aya

Which is not tecnically right yeah?

It wasn't me!

Shotgun chambers just have a length, which is the maximum length of cartridge you can use in it. So a 3" gun can shoot 2", 2 1/2", 2 3/4" and 3", while a 2 3/4" gun can shoot all but the 3" in that and so forth. There's no minimum. If someone can find a 1" shotgun shell, it will be safe to fire in my gun.

Tackleberrywho

It wasn't me! wrote: »

Shotgun chambers just have a length, which is the maximum length of cartridge you can use in it. So a 3" gun can shoot 2", 2 1/2", 2 3/4" and 3", while a 2 3/4" gun can shoot all but the 3" in that and so forth. There's no minimum. If someone can find a 1" shotgun shell, it will be safe to fire in my gun.

my semi will only work with 2-3/4 and 3" and Remington states so

my brothers double barrel is demarked for 2-3/4 and 3"
My mates Fabarm pump says 3-3.5"

It wasn't me!

Semis can have problems with cycling. For double guns though, it's just a max chamber length. Just a question of what's safe to fire.

kildare.17hmr

my O/U just says 70mm which is 2 3/4"

gunhappy_ie

It wasn't me! wrote: »

Semis can have problems with cycling. For double guns though, it's just a max chamber length. Just a question of what's safe to fire.

yep, my semi will only take 2 3/4

Vegeta

gunhappy_ie wrote: »

yep, my semi will only take 2 3/4

Is it due to jamming/cycling issues or pressure concerns?

Tackleberrywho

It wasn't me! wrote: »

Semis can have problems with cycling. For double guns though, it's just a max chamber length. Just a question of what's safe to fire.

I'd question that.

If you had a problem and the insurance company saw you used Ammo not demarked on the Chamber it could let them wriggle out of it.

Interesting that the Fabarm Pump says 3" and 3 &1/2"

and not 2-3/4-3.5" or 2.5-3.5"

@GH
You sure your Semi will not take 3" shells? Most Semi's do for water fowling even 3.5"
http://www.remington.com/products/ammunition/shotshells/waterfowl-loads/nitro-steel-high-velocity.aspx

It wasn't me!

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

I'd question that.

If you had a problem and the insurance company saw you used Ammo not demarked on the Chamber it could let them wriggle out of it.

Interesting that the Fabarm Pump says 3" and 3 &1/2"

and not 2-3/4-3.5" or 2.5-3.5"

@GH
You sure your Semi will not take 3" shells? Most Semi's do for water fowling even 3.5"
http://www.remington.com/products/ammunition/shotshells/waterfowl-loads/nitro-steel-high-velocity.aspx

Yeah, but if you have a gun chambered for 3 1/2" are you only ever going to shoot those in it if it doesn't say anything else? All it denotes is the length of the chamber. It's not like the chambering indication of a rifle.

Tackleberrywho

It wasn't me! wrote: »

Yeah, but if you have a gun chambered for 3 1/2" are you only ever going to shoot those in it if it doesn't say anything else? All it denotes is the length of the chamber. It's not like the chambering indication of a rifle.

Thats my point IWM
It usually says more than one length

It did on my Lumar, Baikal and 3 Remington shotguns

I'm nearly sure it says so on my mates Ruger also.

It wasn't me!

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

Thats my point IWM
It usually says more than one length

It did on my Lumar, Baikal and 3 Remington shotguns

I'm nearly sure it says so on my mates Ruger also.

Never seen that. Certainly any European or English guns I've had a look at have just had the chamber on them, typically in the form of 12/65, 12/70, 12/76 and so forth.

Croppy Boy

AFAIK when a cartridge is classed as 2 3/4, that is the length of the hull before loading, after loading the top of the case is turned and crimped leaving the cartridge about 2 1/2 inches long. That could explain the reason for barrels being marked 2 1/2 and 2 3/4.

gunhappy_ie

Vegeta wrote: »

Is it due to jamming/cycling issues or pressure concerns?

Several reasons, Reliability has been 100% in what Ive used but with a stamped metal reciever heavier recoil would hammer the sh!te out of her.

Its also magazine fed (detachable as opposed to underbarrel) so I would imagine that different length shells could lead to feeding/reliability issues.

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

@GH
You sure your Semi will not take 3" shells? Most Semi's do for water fowling even 3.5"
http://www.remington.com/products/ammunition/shotshells/waterfowl-loads/nitro-steel-high-velocity.aspx

Im quiet positive as im very well able to read the big stamped lettering that says "FRANCHI SPA - SPAS 15 - CAL 12 X 70" :P

70mm is 2.75591 (2 3/4) inches for the curious out there.

GH

landkeeper

janey tack you talk some dross lad :rolleyes:
the gun will usually be marked with the maximum chamber lenth all mine are !!70mm
a shotgun with a 70mm marked chamber can use anything up to and including a 70mm case. PROVIDED !!!!!!!! the cartridge has a working pressure below what the gun is proofed for :eek: just because it will physically fit dosn't mean it's safe to use i have seen 70mm shells that have a 1300 kg pressure rating where most 70mm guns have a 900kg proof .

why lads insist on using aaa /oo buck or such for shooting foxes i really don't know it's a @20lb mammal
1s and 3s are fine for most fox shooting having more than enough kinetic energy and pattern density to kill out to 50yrd from a choke barrel

Arthur.

TO update the situation.

A few years back when I bought the gun, tHe chap I bought it from told me that it was 2 and 3/4.. and on the side of the gun it says 70mm and nothing else. Still being friendly with the lad I bought the gun of I called him up and asked and he said it would be grand once they fit. I tried it, they fit, but told him I wasnt chancing it. 10 minutes later I was suprised when I opened the front door to him standing there volunteering to be a guinea pig. He took the first shot and it fired grand. Or so you'd think.... I took the second shot and all I can say is, you'd definitley know its not a number 8 your shooting.

Grizzly 45

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

Iv asked for these in a few places to be told i dont stock them and they are not good for your gun?? They offer me 42g 4 heavy loads or 38g 3. where can i get 000????????? what range are they good to on a fox griz??

Load of old rubbish telling you they are not good for your gun!:rolleyes:
Unless the thing has huge mechanical issues or is out of tolerance,they will work fine..It is simply a shotgun shell with a larger size pellet load,nothing else.
More like lazy gun dealers who couldnt be arsed getting the proper ammo for foxes.Remmy or Winchester do it as do Federal,or even Rottweil,so anyone that stocks those brands should be able to get you in a supply of them.They are no different in range from the normal shotgun load,but because of the size they will ensure a cleaner and better kill on a fox ,than the above mentioned duck and goose loads.
bEst ring around a few dealers and see who has them in stock.Try calling them fox shot as well,some dont know what 000 is.:rolleyes:

It wasn't me!

Arthur. wrote: »

TO update the situation.

A few years back when I bought the gun, tHe chap I bought it from told me that it was 2 and 3/4.. and on the side of the gun it says 70mm and nothing else. Still being friendly with the lad I bought the gun of I called him up and asked and he said it would be grand once they fit. I tried it, they fit, but told him I wasnt chancing it. 10 minutes later I was suprised when I opened the front door to him standing there volunteering to be a guinea pig. He took the first shot and it fired grand. Or so you'd think.... I took the second shot and all I can say is, you'd definitley know its not a number 8 your shooting.

2 3/4 *is* 70mm.

landkeeper

Grizz you are dishing out bum info lad :cool: ooo in a normal 12 guage load max once and a half only has about 8/9 pellets in it even from a full choke tube your asking a lot to kill a fox fine if you get a lucky hit
whereas a no1 has @75 for the same load with more than enough piff to kill

Grizzly 45

landkeeper wrote: »

why lads insist on using aaa /oo buck or such for shooting foxes i really don't know it's a @20lb mammal
1s and 3s are fine for most fox shooting having more than enough kinetic energy and pattern density to kill out to 50yrd from a choke barrel

Out of a triple turkey choke maybe.:)
Maybe its just me,but I do like to make sure anything I shoot is dispatched cleanly and humanely,which means using the right ammo for the job.Even if it is vermin.
Considering getting hit by one 000 pellet[roughly .25 cal] is a cube root equation,[cant remember who did this equation] of getting hit by three .25 cal slugs at once.apprently the more hits by 000 or 00 it factors by 3 .IOW 1 =3 hits,2=8,3=9,etc of .25 cal ammo.
While not a "manstopper " caliber either unless at poker table ranges :pac:
I sure wouldnt like to be hit by one not to mind three at once.

The adage "use enough gun" holds true:D

Grizzly 45

landkeeper wrote: »

Grizz you are dishing out bum info lad :cool: ooo in a normal 12 guage load max once and a half only has about 8/9 pellets in it even from a full choke tube your asking a lot to kill a fox fine if you get a lucky hit
whereas a no1 has @75 for the same load with more than enough piff to kill

I dunno LK.Ive killed all my foxes with 000 and nothing else out of cylinder bore and improved with no bother.Its not the mass of pelletts you launch its the ones that hit that count.:)

Later.BTW its 00 buck that only has 8/9 pelletts. 000 or Triple ought has 12/16 per round.
00 is for heavier things like deer or boar,or biped vermin.

landkeeper

and i am speaking from practical experience over many years as well as a practical test we did with a steel fox cutout many boxes of shells and a bucket of whitewash , we found that 1s and 3s were the best compromise enough energy to kill and enough pattern to make sure you hit vital areas
what you say does hold true IF you can actually manage to hit it with a single pellet
at 40yrds with 000 buck you may do it 1 time out of ten with a full choke tube
how many foxes have you actually shot with 000 shot yourself

Grizzly 45

Since my first one at sixteen with AA as you described and at the distance of more or less 40 yards,[36 meters,I'm a metric man..Much easier:D]which took two loads from a baikal SXS on half and three quater.The fox still managed to go over 50 meters before dropping dead out on a winter field of kale.
That was 29 years ago.
Excluding rifle shot In the meantime I've dropped around15/ 20 both here and in Germany,and in the Irish situation they have been mostly flushed with a mossberg 12GA 24in cylinder bore,ALL with 000 and in the 20 meter range of things. If it passes that mark ,let it go..
It works for me.

johngalway

landkeeper wrote: »

why lads insist on using aaa /oo buck or such for shooting foxes i really don't know it's a @20lb mammal
1s and 3s are fine for most fox shooting having more than enough kinetic energy and pattern density to kill out to 50yrd from a choke barrel

Though I use BB's myself I do agree regarding the larger sized pellets being completely unnecessary.

landkeeper

and how many didn't drop grizz , personally i wouldn't use anything bigger than bbs and then only if i had to , i saw too many foxes that should have been stone dead carry on as if nothing happened cos that's what happened nothing !!the few pellets that there were in aaa's ooo bucks etc went all around them or hit them where it didn't matter
a 20lb fox isn't hard to kill with a shotgun at moderate range if you hit it in the right place
no1s at 40yrds will go right through the fox and be in the skin the opposite side from entry and a fox with his skin off is a small target for 9 balls of lead
anyway doctors differ and patients die overkill is overkill for a 20lb animal

Tackleberrywho

Arthur. wrote: »

Sorry for the basic question, just shotguns really arent my forte at all. More of a rifle man.

Bought a box of lyalvale cartridges (AAA) for charlie. Only I when I got home I see they are for 3inch chambers. I have a 2 3/4 chamber.... Will it do any harm to gun (or me) if I fire these? Or is it just a case of 3 inch chamber is optimal?

Always use ammunition suitable for your firearm.

This is why I like Remington as it can take several types of game shells.
I like to shoot Duck on the Shannon where range can often be an issue if walking the foreshore

Grizzly 45

[

QUOTE=landkeeper;73424452]and how many didn't drop grizz ,

Plenty!:D But then again I wasnt taking shots at them at over 30 meters

personally i wouldn't use anything bigger than bbs and then only if i had to , i saw too many foxes that should have been stone dead carry on as if nothing happened cos that's what happened nothing !!the few pellets that there were in aaa's ooo bucks etc went all around them or hit them where it didn't matter

As I said in my other post .I hit one of my first with both charges of BBs and it still continued 50 meters before dropping dead.I even remember both hitting the fox.Any others I have shot with 000 have been stone dead.

a 20lb fox isn't hard to kill with a shotgun at moderate range if you hit it in the right place

no1s at 40yrds will go right through the fox and be in the skin the opposite side from entry and a fox with his skin off is a small target for 9 balls of lead

Unless you are using a full choke or super full choke ??

anyway doctors differ and patients die overkill is overkill for a 20lb animal

Exactly...Use what works for you.I prefer enough gun to too little.

Longranger

Just a point to the OP.Before this becomes a raging debate of which size shot is best,remember this,if you like your face being attached to your head,DO NOT use any cartridge that your shotgun isn't chambered for. Maybe you'll get away with it for a couple of shots,but I wouldn't like to be standing beside you when it goes tits-up!

Half-cocked

Its been mentioned somewhere earlier but worth mentioning again. The specified length of cartridge is its uncrimped length - a 70mm cartridge will actually only measure 58 to 60mm long unfired.

I remember some one was caught firing 70mm (2 3/4 inch) cartridges out of an old english gun chambered for 2 1/2 inch up in my club. A committee member noticed that all his empties had the crimps shot off:eek: The culprit claimed that the cartridges were 2 1/2 inch, despite what it said on the box, he had measured the and they were fine! He was bloody lucky his gun had handled the excessive pressure of having the forcing cones partly obstructed by the crimps.

beretta686s

have shot lots and lots of foxes over the years with loads of different cartdiges 36g bb 42g no 2's even a 32g 7 once 36g 7 all did the job if u know your distance and what ur cartdige can do.all that said we were out 1 sunday with the hounds and 1 of my friends with an 11 shot benlli <yes 11 shot> thought he'd try sum slugs for the foxs he these yolks would be sum job,wel when the 1st fox came out 2 him bang bang bang bang bang bang no fox....... :eek:bang bang fox down and loads of holes left in the field and that was the last of them yolks......:rolleyes:

Sika98k

What nobody seems to have mentioned is not to shoot a load over the maximum load for your gun.

For example shooting 36grm loads out of a gun proofed for say 32grms.

Sure we have all done it but it doesnt do your gun any good in the long term or even worse in the short term !

Arthur.

And for those of us that bought second hand guns with no paperwork, how we figure out what the maximum load is..?

Tackleberrywho

Arthur. wrote: »

And for those of us that bought second hand guns with no paperwork, how we figure out what the maximum load is..?

google/e-mail manufacturer

FOXHUNTER1

Arthur. wrote: »

And for those of us that bought second hand guns with no paperwork, how we figure out what the maximum load is..?

If your gun gas the PSF mark with one * over it then it is standard nitro proof or up to 36gr
If it has the PSF mark with two ** over it then it is magnum proofed which is generally around 42gr in older guns ie:mini magnum in 2 3/4 chamber.

Heres a link to some more proof marks seen on guns https://store.bluebookinc.com/Info/PDF/Firearm/Proofmarks.pdf

FISMA

Arthur. wrote: »

Sorry for the basic question, just shotguns really arent my forte at all. More of a rifle man.

Bought a box of lyalvale cartridges (AAA) for charlie. Only I when I got home I see they are for 3inch chambers. I have a 2 3/4 chamber.... Will it do any harm to gun (or me) if I fire these? Or is it just a case of 3 inch chamber is optimal?

Arthur,
No, do not attempt to fire 3" when the barrels are marked less.

Engineers are a clever bunch. Listen to what they have to say and things are usually grand. Start taking a bit of leeway here and there and you are looking for trouble.

Also, from your other post, with the "guinea pig," I would advise against that too. Even if the gun does not catastrophically fail on the first or second shot, I am sure that it has become weakened or stressed at some level that may allow catastrophic failure once you go back to using the approved rounds.

For example, a 38 pistol shoots the same diameter bullet as the 357 magnum. I believe the difference is how they're measured - lands/grooves...

A 38 cannot shoot a 357 magnum, but those of us with Dirty Harry's older 357 magnum know that when money is tight, shoot the 38caliber ammo through the 357 pistol.

Given the length of the 357, I don't think it would fit in the 38, however, let's just say a 38 special could chamber it. I would absolutely never test fire it. Nor, would I want to buy one whose owner had put a few through - an accident waiting to happen.

landkeeper

carefull going on the * marks some guns have them to denote choke

Grizzly 45

beretta686s wrote: »

have shot lots and lots of foxes over the years with loads of different cartdiges 36g bb 42g no 2's even a 32g 7 once 36g 7 all did the job if u know your distance and what ur cartdige can do.all that said we were out 1 sunday with the hounds and 1 of my friends with an 11 shot benlli <yes 11 shot> thought he'd try sum slugs for the foxs he these yolks would be sum job,wel when the 1st fox came out 2 him bang bang bang bang bang bang no fox....... :eek:bang bang fox down and loads of holes left in the field and that was the last of them yolks......:rolleyes:

Shooting a single bullet or slug in this case at a moving target.Not the easiest feat anyway.

Tackleberrywho

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Shooting a single bullet or slug in this case at a moving target.Not the easiest feat anyway.

Especially when 4"+ group from a smooth bore @100 yards would be expected from Slugs (or so i've heard )

beretta686s

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Shooting a single bullet or slug in this case at a moving target.Not the easiest feat anyway.

it sure wouldnt be he said he judged it by the holes he was leaving behind the fox and then gave him a gud enough lead:)