British 'Taliban fighters' arrested in Afghanistan

whydave

British 'Taliban fighters' arrested in Afghanistan,their day just went from bad to F*cker ! hope they enjoy their stay ! link here

r3nu4l

No reall surprise there. In his book 'The Circuit', Bob Shepherd (a man linked to Bravo Two Zero) describes meeting a Brummie fighting for the TAliban.

discus

Hahahaha! I hope enjoys his stay at the ANA's courtesy and expense

LondonIrish90

There have also been reports of soldiers killing taliban fighters in the past, and when inspecting their bodies finding tattoos of English football clubs, often from cities with large muslim populations. Bradford, Villa etc.

It would be interesting to know how these two were actually captured, or whether they just gave themselves up. Either way, I hope they enjoy prison food - Afghan style.

Also, I don't know if it would be legally possible but his citizenship should be revoked upon his release and he should never be allowed back into Europe. I'm sure the court of human rights would kick up a massive fuss however.

RMD

It's not surprising, not the first time it's happened. In many of the Islamic ghettoes in large British cities there's a small number of extremists doing the rounds happy to travel to Afghanistan / Pakistan to fight for the Taliban or other insurgent groups. Or in the case of the 7/7 bombings to be trained there and return to Britain to perform an attack.

Morlar

I really think they should have their citizenship revoked in those cases. Or permanently barred entry on the grounds of danger to the public . . something like that.

arybvtcw0eolkf

RMD wrote: »

It's not surprising, not the first time it's happened. In many of the Islamic ghettoes in large British cities there's a small number of extremists doing the rounds happy to travel to Afghanistan / Pakistan to fight for the Taliban or other insurgent groups. Or in the case of the 7/7 bombings to be trained there and return to Britain to perform an attack.

In 2003 British Muslims also carried out a suicide attack on 'Mikes Place' Irish bar in Tel Aviv, Israel murdering three and injuring over 50.

Fratton Fred

I wonder how many British Muslims rushed to Srebrenica to protect their "Brothers" there?

krissovo

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I wonder how many British Muslims rushed to Srebrenica to protect their "Brothers" there?

You would be surprised the amount of people who signed up to the various factions in the Balkans but there were certainly British Muslims as well as Saudis and Pakistanis in the ARBiH. A real threat to the piece accord was the Mujahideen who rallied during the ceasefires but were kept quiet with a number of NATO operations against them and their leadership.

Mahatma coat

Shock Horror, People Oppose Illegal war of Occupation and choose to take up arms against their home Nations agressors.

ya know some people feel that the Invading British and American soldiers deserve the same Disdain

booom

'Londonistan' by Melanie Philips explains this phenomenon in detail- well worth the read.

harmoniums

Jaxen Echoing Resistor wrote: »

In 2003 British Muslims also carried out a suicide attack on 'Mikes Place' Irish bar in Tel Aviv, Israel murdering three and injuring over 50.

Hey Jaxen Echoing Resistor, is that a Hezbollah Teeshirt in your avatar?
Where do you come across such a thing?
I'll be doing a gunshow here next month and being a douchey hipster, it would make the perfect ironic teeshirt to pair with my sisters skinny jeans to annoy the corn based, diabeeeeeetus havin' (type II of course) mouth breathers.

Does it come in size small with a deep vee?

arybvtcw0eolkf

harmoniums wrote: »

Hey Makikomi, is that a Hezbollah Teeshirt in your avatar?
Where do you come across such a thing?

Lebanon.

LondonIrish90

Mahatma coat wrote: »

Shock Horror, People Oppose Illegal war of Occupation and choose to take up arms against their home Nations agressors.

ya know some people feel that the Invading British and American soldiers deserve the same Disdain

It's not illegal. Read a book.

I hope these two are made to suffer in a grotty afghan prison shall serve them right for taking up arms against their "home nation".

LondonIrish90

Jaxen Echoing Resistor wrote: »

Lebanon.

Interesting that you would have no problem walking around in a Hezbollah shirt. To each their own, and all that.

arybvtcw0eolkf

LondonIrish90 wrote: »

Interesting that you would have no problem walking around in a Hezbollah shirt. To each their own, and all that.

At various times you'll see in my avatar an IDF T-shirt, something resembling a swastika, an Hezbollah T-shirt and sometimes even a pink thong bikini so don't go losing too much sleep over it.

'Tis all for a bit of craic and nothing else.

Manic Moran

In fairness, even if someone is offended by your T-shirts, it would take some balls for them to challenge you on it...

NTM

arybvtcw0eolkf

Manic Moran wrote: »

In fairness, even if someone is offended by your T-shirts, it would take some balls for them to challenge you on it...

NTM

Anyone who know's me wouldn't challenge me, it would be like kicking a puppy :P

I actually made up the 'I graduated SUICIDE BOMBER school' poster thingy to have the craic with some Israeli buddies on Facebook, then thought it would look cool over on boards.ie too.

I wouldn't pay any heed to what I'd throw up here tbh.

BlaasForRafa

Mahatma coat wrote: »

Shock Horror, People Oppose Illegal war of Occupation and choose to take up arms against their home Nations agressors.

ya know some people feel that the Invading British and American soldiers deserve the same Disdain

It isn't an invading illegal war of occupation so get your facts right.

And hey if you want to voice support for people who murder gays and oppose education for females, thats up to you but it also says a lot about you.

A.Tomas

How do ye feel about this t-shirt?:D Just curious.

http://www.thejournal.ie/sinn-fein-pulls-thatchers-grave-t-shirt-from-online-store-181921-Jul2011/

Mahatma coat

LondonIrish90 wrote: »

It's not illegal. Read a book.

I hope these two are made to suffer in a grotty afghan prison shall serve them right for taking up arms against their "home nation".

I have read a fair few books in me time, I'm fairly sure there are specific laws Against Wars of Agression, theres a few UN Resolutions and IIRC there was something about it in the Nuremberg trials.

also
I hope that Many Many Many more Young British and American soldiers die in horific agony in the dust of Afghanistan and Iraq whilst perpetuating the endless cycle of violence nescessary to maintain the Military Industrial complex eisenhower warned the World about see I put in a smiley face just like you

Mahatma coat

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

It isn't an invading illegal war of occupation so get your facts right.

so what is it then, a Diplomatic mission??

And hey if you want to voice support for people who murder gays and oppose education for females, thats up to you but it also says a lot about you.

I havent voiced Support for anyone, I'm just curious as to why its 'heroic' to go to afghanistan and Shoot/Bomb lots of people if you wear a uniform but your the lowest of the low if you decide to go there and help those people DEFEND their country from Foreign agressors

arybvtcw0eolkf

A.Tomas wrote: »

How do ye feel about this t-shirt?:D Just curious.

http://www.thejournal.ie/sinn-fein-pulls-thatchers-grave-t-shirt-from-online-store-181921-Jul2011/

Get with it gurl!.

A.Tomas

Mahatma coat wrote: »

so what is it then, a Diplomatic mission??

I havent voiced Support for anyone, I'm just curious as to why its 'heroic' to go to afghanistan and Shoot/Bomb lots of people if you wear a uniform but your the lowest of the low if you decide to go there and help those people DEFEND their country from Foreign agressors

+1


Though, they ban you from forums for bringing this up!

Manic Moran

Right.. Well.

I hope these two are made to suffer in a grotty afghan prison shall serve them right for taking up arms against their "home nation".

As a matter of policy, we do not allow approval of acts which are contrary to the laws of war, to include conditions for prisoners. Officlal warning granted.

also
I hope that Many Many Many more Young British and American soldiers die in horific agony in the dust of Afghanistan and Iraq whilst perpetuating the endless cycle of violence nescessary to maintain the Military Industrial complex eisenhower warned the World about see I put in a smiley face just like you

And that one earns two weeks off for general asshattery, to include attempt at personal moderation of postings.

Though, they ban you from forums for bringing this up!

Not if it's done in the correct manner. Mahatma's position has been stated before, without causing a ban.

NTM

RMD

Mahatma coat wrote: »

I havent voiced Support for anyone, I'm just curious as to why its 'heroic' to go to afghanistan and Shoot/Bomb lots of people if you wear a uniform but your the lowest of the low if you decide to go there and help those people DEFEND their country from Foreign agressors

These people "defending" their country want to implement an extremely strict interpretation of Sharia Law banning most things you'd consider common and basic in your life, they have no regard for civil rights most notably women and have no problem butchering minority groups they don't view as pure such as homosexuals.

They have little support other than the border tribal areas such as Helmand and Kunar province. The majority of the country is pro-democracy after they've seen what the Taliban actually stands for.

alanmcqueen

On a lighter note, for anyone interested in learning more about the Taliban, this is essential reading:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Taliban-James-Fergusson/dp/0552162833/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1311365912&sr=8-2

Or same book with slightly different name to appeal to different audience here:

http://www.amazon.com/Taliban-Enemy-James-Fergusson/dp/0306820331/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1311366103&sr=1-2

flash1080

RMD wrote: »

These people "defending" their country want to implement an extremely strict interpretation of Sharia Law banning most things you'd consider common and basic in your life, they have no regard for civil rights most notably women and have no problem butchering minority groups they don't view as pure such as homosexuals.

They have little support other than the border tribal areas such as Helmand and Kunar province. The majority of the country is pro-democracy after they've seen what the Taliban actually stands for.

I'd imagine that most people there want peace and want foreign forces to leave their land. The Taliban kept law and order in place there, and the drugs trade only blossomed after the invasion of foreigners. The UK haven't exactly got a clean past when it comes to civil rights.

It wasn't me!

flash1080 wrote: »

The Taliban kept law and order in place there

Which is of course wonderful when they also decided the laws to be implemented, and executed teachers who educated young women and the like.

whydave

Sorry Lads ,
Wanted this about non-Afghan fighters captured in action , Etc!

David
(cool t-shirts )

MickJB1989

The difficulty I have in condemning people for acting on their beliefs, is that they may well feel a desire to condemn me for acting upon mine. I find sharia law to be quite distasteful, and frankly barbaric in places, but equally, it's practioners would find common law practiced in the UK, US and Ireland, or civil law practiced in Europe to be secular and possibly blasphemous.

The difficulty is reconciling two polar positions, it can't be done. But just as I don't view the average wermacht solider as a "bad guy" (and remember, many people of german descent returned to fight for the fatherland from various countries) I can't view the average Taliban fighter as "evil". They are fighting for their beliefs, we are fighting for ours, as long as neither side breaks jus as bellum or jus in bello, then neither side can be criticised. War is simply the final means to resolve politcal disputes, to paraphrase Clausewitz.

N.B. If Mahatma comes back, he should remember that IRAQ was illegal, not Afghanistan

LondonIrish90

MickJB1989 wrote: »

The difficulty I have in condemning people for acting on their beliefs, is that they may well feel a desire to condemn me for acting upon mine. I find sharia law to be quite distasteful, and frankly barbaric in places, but equally, it's practioners would find common law practiced in the UK, US and Ireland, or civil law practiced in Europe to be secular and possibly blasphemous.

The difficulty is reconciling two polar positions, it can't be done. But just as I don't view the average wermacht solider as a "bad guy" (and remember, many people of german descent returned to fight for the fatherland from various countries) I can't view the average Taliban fighter as "evil". They are fighting for their beliefs, we are fighting for ours, as long as neither side breaks jus as bellum or jus in bello, then neither side can be criticised. War is simply the final means to resolve politcal disputes, to paraphrase Clausewitz.

N.B. If Mahatma comes back, he should remember that IRAQ was illegal, not Afghanistan

I agree that it is all about perspective, but I believe that anyone looking in with a holistic view would be highly unlikely to appreciate both sides of the coin could be described as evil with any level of credibility.

I could understand if members of the taliban were offended by western way of life as they thought they were in opposition with the way that god wanted them to live. However on a human level I think it is simply impossible for an argument to be made that the way of life afforded to those in the west is in any way evil whereas I don't think it is possible to see hardline shariah as anything other than evil.

To put it simply - shariah is evil, therefore those who desire to enforce this way of life on others are evil.

flash1080

LondonIrish90 wrote: »

I agree that it is all about perspective, but I believe that anyone looking in with a holistic view would be highly unlikely to appreciate both sides of the coin could be described as evil with any level of credibility.

I could understand if members of the taliban were offended by western way of life as they thought they were in opposition with the way that god wanted them to live. However on a human level I think it is simply impossible for an argument to be made that the way of life afforded to those in the west is in any way evil whereas I don't think it is possible to see hardline shariah as anything other than evil.

To put it simply - shariah is evil, therefore those who desire to enforce this way of life on others are evil.

Shariah isn't evil.

Manic Moran

MickJB1989 wrote: »

N.B. If Mahatma comes back, he should remember that IRAQ was illegal, not Afghanistan

Oh, I'm sure he'll be back. Most of the 'troublemakers' here actually make valid points more often than not, so I'm not a fan of permanent banning for them. This place would get boring if we all agreed with each other with no dissent, they just need the occasional slap to keep them on 'this' side of the disturbance of the peace line.

NTM

RMD

flash1080 wrote: »

I'd imagine that most people there want peace and want foreign forces to leave their land. The Taliban kept law and order in place there, and the drugs trade only blossomed after the invasion of foreigners. The UK haven't exactly got a clean past when it comes to civil rights.

Yes they do, and ISAF offers them peace, democracy and improved infrastructure. The Taliban kept law and order by barbaric methods, a woman can't walk in the street there unless wearing a Burqa and must be accompanied by a male family member. The drugs trade blossomed as the Taliban needed funding for arms and ammunition. The UK doesn't have a clean slate, but it's certainly a hell of a lot better than the Taliban. As far as the Taliban are concerned, there's 2 ways of doing things, the Taliban way and the wrong way.

Shariah isn't evil, the extent of the Taliban's interpretation and their method of enforcing it is.

r3nu4l

Jaxen Echoing Resistor wrote: »

At various times you'll see in my avatar an IDF T-shirt, something resembling a swastika, an Hezbollah T-shirt and sometimes even a pink thong bikini so don't go losing too much sleep over it.

Oh God! I'm afraid I'll lose sleep over that image



I'm going to be a bit controversial now I believe in patriotism and the right of any young man or woman to serve the armed forces of their country. In many ways though, these 'British' Taliban are only doing what I would expect them to do. Just because they were born in Britain does not mean they will have had a British upbrining. Their lives may have been surrounded by much more 'Arabic/Islamic' culture than British culture when growing up. They are 'British' only by accident of birth and the fact that they grew up there.

Now in theory, that means they 'owe' their home country something but equally, they've witnessed their home country 'betray' them by attacking 'their' people. In many ways, these guys are just as patriotic as the young lad or woman who fights for the British army...

My daughter was born in England, I live in England but her passport is Irish, she has a teddy bear that speaks Irish, I speak Irish (to the best of my limited abilities) and English to her. I play Irish radio and she can hear the accents. She will be raised as an Irish girl but with an appreciation for the culture and country that she lives in. she will first and foremost be Irish though. Apart from the fact that I will teach her about British culture and the history between the two countries (without radicalising her), her upbringing won't be too different from that of the 'British' people who are fighting for the Taliban. in fact, I would hope that her allegiance will always be to Ireland, not England!

LondonIrish90

r3nu4l wrote: »

Oh God! I'm afraid I'll lose sleep over that image



I'm going to be a bit controversial now I believe in patriotism and the right of any young man or woman to serve the armed forces of their country. In many ways though, these 'British' Taliban are only doing what I would expect them to do. Just because they were born in Britain does not mean they will have had a British upbrining. Their lives may have been surrounded by much more 'Arabic/Islamic' culture than British culture when growing up. They are 'British' only by accident of birth and the fact that they grew up there.

Now in theory, that means they 'owe' their home country something but equally, they've witnessed their home country 'betray' them by attacking 'their' people. In many ways, these guys are just as patriotic as the young lad or woman who fights for the British army...

My daughter was born in England, I live in England but her passport is Irish, she has a teddy bear that speaks Irish, I speak Irish (to the best of my limited abilities) and English to her. I play Irish radio and she can hear the accents. She will be raised as an Irish girl but with an appreciation for the culture and country that she lives in. she will first and foremost be Irish though. Apart from the fact that I will teach her about British culture and the history between the two countries (without radicalising her), her upbringing won't be too different from that of the 'British' people who are fighting for the Taliban. in fact, I would hope that her allegiance will always be to Ireland, not England!

The argument of patriotism is all but redundant when it comes to the taliban. Vast numbers of them are not Afghani. They believe in and are fighting to create an extremely religious way of life as opposed to a liberated state. They want power and control, not freedom for the people. Not to mention that there has never been a news report of British Afghanis being killed while fighting for the taliban. It is "British" islamists who have been suckered into a way of thinking which is so extreme that they are prepared to give their lives for it. Not at all about patriotism.

Would you expect your daughter to travel to Ireland to impose an extremely brutal way of life based on christianity on Irish people should there be a time of major political instability? (If this is the patriotism you hope to install in her I think it would differ a fair bit from the average person's view of what patriotism is in this modern age) Having allegience to a nation is all well and good, but in the western world with cultures so similar it doesnt really mean anything, which cannot be said of hardline islamist ways of life which are so very different from accepted and promoted ways of life in the EU, for example.

r3nu4l

LondonIrish90 wrote: »

Would you expect your daughter to travel to Ireland to impose an extremely brutal way of life based on christianity on Irish people should there be a time of major political instability?

Nope, you're putting words in my mouth there fella.

If for example, Ireland was invaded by another country i would expect her to play her part in defending the country. rather than saying, 'I was born in Britain, I'm not really Irish'.

(If this is the patriotism you hope to install in her I think it would differ a fair bit from the average person's view of what patriotism is in this modern age)

Good thing that's not what I was saying.

Having allegience to a nation is all well and good, but in the western world with cultures so similar it doesnt really mean anything,

Putting words in my mouth again. Who said anything about the Western world? If Pakistan or China invaded Ireland (we're in Walter Mitty territory here but the point I'm trying to make, makes this necessary) I'd expect my daughter to defend Ireland as an Irish patriot (not a British patriot) and not stand idly by.

The point I'm making is that just because someone is born and raised in one country does not mean that they should automatically pledge allegiance to that country. Do you think a child born of Irish parents in Afghanistan or Iran should pledge allegiance to that country (let's say, when the Taliban were in power in Afghanistan)? I doubt it. Therefore why should a Muslim child, born and raised in Britain who has only attended Muslim schools and been taught Islamic culture feel any loyalty towards Britain when in the past 20 years Britain has engaged in multiple wars with Islamic countries and has been fed a diet of rhetoric that says Britain is out to destroy Islam and rob her oil? Let's face it Britain's past history of colonialism in many countries, exportation of British values and ideals to those countries, rape of culture and destruction of the way of life of others is not exactly going to make these people think that anything has changed and is perfect rhetoric for radicalisation.

Don't get me wrong, I despise the Taliban and am not fond of many Islamic ways but if you can't see or understand their reasoning then you can never counteract the problem and as a result will always have a tiny proportion of British Muslims fighting for Islam in foreign wars...

LondonIrish90

Basically, I'm saying its not about patriotism or nationality at all, its about extreme religious beliefs and extreme political ideologies. To liken going to fight for the taliban having been born in Britain to allying yourself with Ireland having been born in Britain are two things which are extremely dissimilar.

I agree that you cannot expect a muslim child to see themselves as British if they are spoonfed illinformed anti British propaganda from a young age. But, if that is the case I would hope they would go to Afghanistan to join the plight of their extremist islamic brothers, and see themselves killed at the hands of ISAF (within the rules of engagement, obviously. I don't want another ban) so not to continue to be an insult to British society.

r3nu4l

LondonIrish90 wrote: »

Basically, I'm saying its not about patriotism or nationality at all, its about extreme religious beliefs and extreme political ideologies. To liken going to fight for the taliban having been born in Britain to allying yourself with Ireland having been born in Britain are two things which are extremely dissimilar.

The point I'm making is that patriotism has it's roots in tribalism, where groups form loyalties based on an ideal. With patriotism the ideal is that all people are from the same country and that is their bond of loyalty. It's not as different to what the Taliban or extremist muslims or even football fans feel, a bond of loyalty based on an ideology of what it means to be a part of a particular group...Irish/British/Muslim/Man Utd fan. Many patriots love their country, will fight for their country and die for their country...extremists are the same, they love their cause, will fight and die for it. Not that different.

I agree that you cannot expect a muslim child to see themselves as British if they are spoonfed illinformed anti British propaganda from a young age. But, if that is the case I would hope they would go to Afghanistan to join the plight of their extremist islamic brothers, and see themselves killed at the hands of ISAF (within the rules of engagement, obviously. I don't want another ban) so not to continue to be an insult to British society.

Well to be honest, if I hated any country or the people of that country, I'd move somewhere where I felt more at home. I couldn't agree with your sentiment more! If they really hate Britain/The West that much they should all go and train and fight for their cause.

MickJB1989

R3nu4,

Your plan to raise your daughter sounds just like how my mother raised me, so I have to say, good plan!

As for the general debate, the Taliban's sharia law isn't that far removed from that of Saudi Arabia, and we haven't invaded there. This isn't a war against Islam, it is a war against the former rulers of Afghanistan, who have been deposed, or otherthrown, and now seek to regain power. War was declared upon them because they were believed to shelter or at least previously sheltered Osama Bid Laden and AQ, who had committed an act of war against the US, hence ISAF being a NATO mission, with UN support, compared to the the Iraq Coalition.

This isn't a war against Islam, it just so happens that those who perpetrated an act of war against a NATO member happen to be Islamic. People forget this and make it all about religion, when really it is simply about the activation of joint-defence protocols.

Also, I should add from my earlier posts, when I used "we" in terms of fighting a war, I meant the royal we. I am a civvy, with no affiliation to the military of any nation.