Fracking in the West -

Spunkypoo

Tamboran, the Australian company who have been granted the licence to frack in the northwest, are meeting with the public this evening at 7pm in the Bush Hotel, Carrick-on-Shannon.

frackingishell

they havent been given the licence yet SKunkypoo

feicim

frackingishell wrote: »

they havent been given the licence yet SKunkypoo

They have now... for preliminary drilling (with a view to fracking)

Australian company Tamboran has been awarded the licence to make preliminary drillings for onshore natural gas in the Lough Allen basin, which takes in all of North Leitrim, and parts of counties Sligo, Roscommon, west Cavan and Donegal.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/gas-firm-denies-drilling-method-will-cause-cancer-and-pollution-2882530.html

MadsL

An Taisce is taking the position that no activities should take place until clearly monitored and regulated operations can be shown to be possible.


Todays Press release

“An Taisce call for Moratorium on Fracking”

An Taisce called for a moratorium on ‘Fracking’ in a presentation to the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Environment, Transport, Culture and the Gaeltacht.

At yesterday’s Oireachtas Joint Committee on Environment, Transport, Culture and the Gaeltacht Charles Stanley-Smith, Chair of An Taisce The National Trust for Ireland stated “An Taisce is calling for a Ban on ‘Fracking’ until such time as the People of Ireland can be convinced that it is possible to regulate Fracking, so that it can be undertaken sustainably and as a result there will be no environmental, social or economic harm.”
He continued “Fracking has gained a very poor reputation in recent years, with many cases of environmental and societal damage recorded in the US. Much of this is due to the large amount of land used and its proximity to population and groundwater. Many would say that the pollution was caused by lax regulation in the past. Others say that Europe and Ireland can learn from the mistakes of the US and ‘Frack’ under ‘Best Practices’. Unfortunately, Ireland has an extremely poor history of environmental enforcement and the environmental threats of Fracking are many and due to the hundreds of sites involved will be cumulative. Can you really convince the People of Ireland that ‘this time it will be OK’?”
“An Taisce is very aware of the potential jobs that ‘Fracking’ could provide so we are also calling for a full ‘Life Cycle Analysis’ to be undertaken on Fracking to see if it will really bring benefits to the People of Ireland and at what risk?”

Ends
For further commentary/clarification please contact:
Charles Stanley-Smith, Chair, An Taisce The National Trust for Ireland, 087 2411995

Download An Taisce’s Presentation from here

feicim

Received august 31st 2011

The first thing that I would like to say is that while there has been considerable focus on the possibility of the technology of hydraulic fracturing (commonly referred to as “fracking”) being used in the area, that the authorisations that have been granted by my Department do not permit exploration drilling of any kind at this point in time and specifically do not provide for fracking.

As I have set out in more detail below, licensing options do not involve exploration field activity with drilling rigs etc. I can assure you that if in the future (before expiry of the licensing options in 2013) the companies consider they want to proceed to such an exploration stage, permission would have to be sought for an exploration drilling programme. That application would have to be detailed, setting out a full programme of work, supported by an environmental impact statement. My Department would undertake a full assessment of the application, including an environmental impact assessment.

The two authorisations granted by my Department earlier this year are called “licensing options”. The purpose of these authorisations is to confer on the two companies involved (Tamboran Resources and LANGCO), a first right of refusal for an exploration licence over the area concerned. The licensing options are for a two-year period and expressly state that exploration drilling may not be carried out under the licensing option. Before either company could apply for an exploration licence and proceed to an exploration drilling phase, they must first complete the licensing option work programme agreed with my Department. These work programmes are primarily based on desktop studies of existing data and should be completed by February 2013. When they have completed their work programmes each company will then have to decide if it wishes to move to the next stage and apply for an exploration licence. It is at that point that a work programme involving exploration drilling would be considered.

As I have already stated any application for permission to carry out exploration drilling, including drilling that proposed using hydraulic fracturing, would be subject to an environmental impact assessment. That assessment would include a public consultation phase, of four weeks or more, which would be widely advertised on my Department’s website and in the local press. As part of such a process my Department would also seek and be guided by, the expert advice of other relevant statutory authorities such as the EPA, NPWS and the Local Authorities. I would add that should such exploration work prove successful and the companies decide to seek to proceed to any production activity, that would be subject to a further assessment.

I am aware that one of the companies with a licensing option has scheduled a number of public information sessions for early September and I understand that the purpose of these information sessions is to provide information on the company’s plans. While I am sure that these meetings will be helpful in providing members of the local community with more by way of background and possible future plans, they are not a part of a formal public consultation process like that which would have to take place before exploration drilling could be approved. Should either company decide to advance to the exploration licence phase then it could be expected that a formal public consultation would commence by mid 2013"

The facts outlined in the independent newspaper article seem to contradict what is outlined in this letter.


Another (different) correspondence from Minister Rabbitte states the following:

Received august 24th 2011

Exploration drilling is not allowed under these authorisations, but shallow geological sampling is permitted

Anyone know what the definition of "shallow geological sampling"??

How shallow is shallow and what exactly is geological sampling? Will Tamboran or whoever be deciding what these definitions are?

frackingishell

so is it looking inevitable that parts of our country are about to be raped?

thebman

feicim wrote: »

Anyone know what the definition of "shallow geological sampling"??

How shallow is shallow and what exactly is geological sampling? Will Tamboran or whoever be deciding what these definitions are?

Geological sampling is just soil samples. It would be at the depth they are intended to Frack to I imagine but not over a wide area. Just shallow selections from a few areas to get an idea of how hard it will be to extract the gas I imagine.

Scofflaw

thebman wrote: »

Geological sampling is just soil samples. It would be at the depth they are intended to Frack to I imagine but not over a wide area. Just shallow selections from a few areas to get an idea of how hard it will be to extract the gas I imagine.

More a case of drilling to less than 200m depth, and most likely for core samples - that is, you drill out a tube of rock to have a look at the rock types, fracture patterns, permeability and so on. You can also use the boreholes for a certain amount of exploratory geophysical measurements - again, they'll be most interested in fracture patterns and permeability.

Sub-200m core samples would be pretty routine - not much in the way of serious equipment, and done by the universities and GSI fairly regularly.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Scofflaw

BRUSSELS (Dow Jones)--The European Commission is studying whether the current European Union environmental laws would apply to shale gas production, but isn't planning to propose any new legislation on what is becoming an increasingly contentious issue in Europe.

"At the moment, it is not foreseen that we come forward with a legislative proposal," said Marlene Holzner, spokeswoman for Energy Commissioner Guenther Oettinger. The commission, which has executive powers within the EU, has however asked a private consultant to look into whether the present environmental laws would cover shale gas, she said.

cordially,
Scofflaw

MadsL

Is there any risk in sampling through a water table or aquifer? (being lazy - will try and research this soon, but in the meantime)

Scofflaw

MadsL wrote: »

Is there any risk in sampling through a water table or aquifer? (being lazy - will try and research this soon, but in the meantime)

Not with that kind of shallow drilling, really. It's the same kind of depths you might go to for water well drilling.

cordially,
Scofflaw

MadsL

“Please discuss the findings of the EPA advice on Fracking with the people – An Taisce”

Today, An Taisce complemented Minister Rabbitte for his initiative to ask the EPA for advice on the environmental implications of fracking.
Charles Stanley-Smith, Chair An Taisce, the Environmental charity, stated “We complement Minister Rabbitte on his initiative on asking the EPA for their advice on the environmental impacts of Fracking. We call upon the minister to make this advice publically available to allow the people participate properly in the decision making process. An Taisce is very aware of the potential jobs that ‘Fracking’ could provide, so we are also calling for a full ‘Life Cycle Analysis’ to be undertaken on Fracking to see if it will really bring benefits to the People of Ireland and at what risk?”
He went on to say “We realise that currently no company is licensed to undertake Fracking in Ireland and reiterate our call for a Moratorium on Fracking and we call upon the Minster to convince the people of Ireland that Fracking can be undertaken without environmental damage before any company is licensed to undertake Fracking, even on an exploratory basis”
An Taisce Ends
For further commentary/clarification please contact:
Charles Stanley-Smith, Chair, An Taisce The National Trust for Ireland, 087 2411995

ed2hands

feicim wrote: »

Edit:

Earthquakes/Tremors in Blackpool suspected to be linked to fracking in the area.





http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/small-earthquake-in-blackpool-major-shock-for-uks-energy-policy-2291597.html

"US Govt. confirms links between earthquakes and hydraulic fracturing":

http://oilprice.com/Energy/Natural-Gas/U.S.-Government-Confirms-Link-Between-Earthquakes-and-Hydraulic-Fracturing.html

cavedave

CLARE COUNTY Council last night became the first local authority to agree to put in place a ban on fracking in its county development plan.

Councillors back fracking ban

Run_to_da_hills

cavedave wrote: »

Councillors back fracking ban

Fair play to them and I hope the rest of the countries county councils follow. People need to be educated about this scourge.

Who wants €300 to €400 bn worth of natural gas extracted from our land if the consequences of it is turning our country into a toxic wasteland. You could Kiss good bye to Ballygowen, Tipperary, Irish Spring Water not to mention ordinary tap water.

Check out the movie Gaslands, available on DVDor big screen, it will open your eyes.

nedzer2011

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Fair play to them and I hope the rest of the countries county councils follow. People need to be educated about this scourge.

Who wants €300 to €400 bn worth of natural gas extracted from our land if the consequences of it is turning our country into a toxic wasteland. You could Kiss good bye to Ballygowen, Tipperary, Irish Spring Water not to mention ordinary tap water.

Check out the movie Gaslands, available on DVDor big screen, it will open your eyes.

Turn Ireland into a toxic wasteland? Is that not a bit OTT?? Talking about education.. do you base your statements on any technical ground other than 'facts' provided by Gasland?

MadsL

Pretty hard to clean up a water table once you pollute it though, not like cleaning up, say, the Gulf of Mexico... *COUGH*

books4sale

It's beyond me why fracking would even be proposed.

It's ok to shove every toxic chemical known to man into the Earth for a bit of gas and pollute the water table to boot but when it comes to throwing up a wind farm, everyone's up in arms about the scenery.

What is it with people and stupidity? They almost seem to go hand in hand these days.

nedzer2011

books4sale wrote: »

It's beyond me why fracking would even be proposed.

It's ok to shove every toxic chemical known to man into the Earth for a bit of gas and pollute the water table to boot but when it comes to throwing up a wind farm, everyone's up in arms about the scenery.

What is it with people and stupidity? They almost seem to go hand in hand these days.

Correct me if I'm wrong... but this post suggests that you believe that the hydraulic fracturing process virtually guarantees groundwater pollution?

The more these threads progress, the more it becomes clear that hydraulic fracturing won't go ahead. Not because of any technical reason, but because of this somewhat blind perception that people have. As was stated in another thread, it's those who shout loudest who are listened to; not those who research the subject and educate themselves prior to coming to a conclusion.

Yahew

Its mere ludditism in most cases.

books4sale

nedzer2011 wrote: »

The more these threads progress, the more it becomes clear that hydraulic fracturing won't go ahead. Not because of any technical reason, but because of this somewhat blind perception that people have. As was stated in another thread, it's those who shout loudest who are listened to; not those who research the subject and educate themselves prior to coming to a conclusion.

Good if it dosen't go ahead. I don't want it to.

It's not a blind perception, I watched 'Gasland', it was more than enough evidence for me. I don't need any BS coporate facts and figure telling me how safe it is.

'Those who shout the loudest' ...right! tell that to the people who had their water supplies polluted and the damage done to their bodies as a results of this process in America.

I came to my conclusion, I don't like the idea of pumping hazordous chemicals into the ground for the sake of a bit of gas when renewables offer a cleaner and safer return.

First and foremost I care about people not some foreign corporation using us as disposable assets.

Some just want to watch the world burn. FACT!

books4sale

Yahew wrote: »

Its mere ludditism in most cases.

I totally agree with you, well said. Thank you for your contribution.

Investment in renewables is indeed the way forward for a cleaner and better future for everyone on this planet.

Some of the most advanced technology is currently being developed in this field. Ireland has the potential to be a world leader with vast renewable resources on our doorstop instead here we are considering 'fracking', a finite resouce which offers limited return and hell of cleaning bill for the taxpayer.

Just another irish joke really....can't see the wood for the trees.

Kepti

This is an informative article/podcast on fracking.

http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4275

Pablo_

Kepti wrote: »

This is an informative article/podcast on fracking.

http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4275

Urbanisation urbanisation urbanisation , then ......then we'll deal with the real problem .... Energy is half our problem

cavedave

books4sale

Some of the most advanced technology is currently being developed in this field. Ireland has the potential to be a world leader with vast renewable resources on our doorstop instead here we are considering 'fracking', a finite resouce which offers limited return and hell of cleaning bill for the taxpayer.

Do you have a good reference for how Ireland could meet its energy needs through renewable sources? some of the ones I have seen either require too much investment in capital like spirit of Ireland. Others seem to mix up peak supply with constant ability to supply.

Yahew

books4sale wrote: »

I totally agree with you, well said. Thank you for your contribution.

Investment in renewables is indeed the way forward for a cleaner and better future for everyone on this planet.

Some of the most advanced technology is currently being developed in this field. Ireland has the potential to be a world leader with vast renewable resources on our doorstop instead here we are considering 'fracking', a finite resouce which offers limited return and hell of cleaning bill for the taxpayer.

Just another irish joke really....can't see the wood for the trees.

If renewables worked we would be using them by now. Gaslands was massively biased, like a Michael Moore documentary.

books4sale

Yahew wrote: »

If renewables worked we would be using them by now.

We are. :rolleyes:

Once again thank you for your contibution though this time I fear your mask has slipped and that it you dear sir who are the luddite.

Yahew

books4sale wrote: »

We are. :rolleyes:

Once again thank you for your contibution though this time I fear your mask has slipped and that it you dear sir who are the luddite.

Cut the sarcasm mate or get reported. We are nowhere near a position where we can even begin to fuel either Ireland, or the Earth with renewables.

Fracking, on the other hand will double, or triple the world's known reserves, most importantly bringing renewed prosperity to central Ireland. Jobs, exports, VAT etc. We probably should wait until the technology is a bit refined, but we should be able to do this.

MadsL

Yahew wrote: »

Cut the sarcasm mate or get reported. We are nowhere near a position where we can even begin to fuel either Ireland, or the Earth with renewables.

Err, about 40 years actually.

wrote:

It is estimated that capturing 0.3% of the sunlight falling on the desert would meet all of Europe's needs.
The major drawback to the proposal is the cost and the time. An investment of around €450bn would be needed and scientists estimate that it would take until 2050 before the project could produce 100 GW which is more electricity than all sources of power in the UK combined

source

However, Solar panels take an efficiency leap about every five years or so as new panels come on stream. So there may be a Moore's Law effect.

Fracking, on the other hand will double, or triple the world's known reserves,

Could we get a source for that confident forecast, would that be an Oil company talking by any chance?

most importantly bringing renewed prosperity to central Ireland.

Central Ireland?? What? Prosperity? Like Mayo and Shell you mean?

Jobs, exports, VAT etc.

They can fix the road while they are at it. What is it about Ireland that every half-assed project is justified because someone mentions "It'll bring Jabs!!" - never ends...

We probably should wait until the technology is a bit refined, but we should be able to do this.

Ya think? Or will we just blast some chemicals down a deep hole and see what happens - because that is pretty much the technology at the moment. When the technology is 'refined', please explain to me how the EPA can possibly police this type of operation? Oh, of course, these are major multi-nationals, they would never make a mistake and destroy the natural environment...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oil_spills

Yahew

MadsL wrote: »

Err, about 40 years actually.

source

However, Solar panels take an efficiency leap about every five years or so as new panels come on stream. So there may be a Moore's Law effect.

We are talking about Ireland - at best that project might work in Spain. It is more likely to work in Africa, and relying on Africa for a significant portion of our energy would be madness. And we have 40 years to wait.

Could we get a source for that confident forecast, would that be an Oil company talking by any chance?

No it came from Michael Moore's bollocks. Of course it came from the geological scientists who know the actual science behind fracking - unlike that luddite documentary ( already destroyed in a previous link here). That's where geological scientists go - they work in multinationals. The people who produce the peer reviewed papers, not some arts student with a camera.

Central Ireland?? What? Prosperity? Like Mayo and Shell you mean?

Well like the prosperity and jobs which would have increased employment and generated tax revenues had the project not be curtailed by a insane ignorant cabal of sophomoric pseuds, aging Marxists, tricolour waving republicans, semi-literate druids and rosary toting neanderthals, yes.

They can fix the road while they are at it. What is it about Ireland that every half-assed project is justified because someone mentions "It'll bring Jabs!!" - never ends...

What are you taking about? Why would this project, or indeed the Shell project on which they spent 2B be "half-assed". It wold be big mining operation. In fact we are sitting on massive gas reserves. Lets use them.

Ya think? Or will we just blast some chemicals down a deep hole and see what happens - because that is pretty much the technology at the moment. When the technology is 'refined', please explain to me how the EPA can possibly police this type of operation? Oh, of course, these are major multi-nationals, they would never make a mistake and destroy the natural environment...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oil_spills

Yeah, lets ban all oil refining because of a tiny % of faults. Now go back and read the link which pointed out exactly how biased the Gasland documentary.

( And who do you think is going to fund the solar panels in Europe but multinationals. The people who hire the scientists. )


What a mass of Ludditism, Anti-science, and Anti-progress commentary this is.

Sicking medieval nonsense. Mother Ireland is rearing them yet.